DIYAPASON-L Digest #139 - Wednesday, August 16, 2000
 
New room for the organ...
  by "John Haskey" <johnh@haskey.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  New room for the organ...
  by "Ron Rarick" <rrarick@gw.bsu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  New room for the organ...
  by "John Bowers" <JABowers@execpc.com>
Re: New room for the organ...
  by "John Haskey" <johnh@haskey.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  New room for the organ...
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: New room for the organ...
  by "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com>
Greetings
  by <mts@intergrafix.net>
 

(back) Subject: New room for the organ... From: "John Haskey" <johnh@haskey.net> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:29:40 -0700 (PDT)     Will be meeting with the architect next week to talk about the new music room. It looks like we can do about a 16x30 off the back of the house. I'll have to share it with a grand piano but should have a fair amount of space for Opus I. So I've got a few questions:   How much power am I likely to need? I'm running direct-electric style chests and have an Orgoblo with a 1 horsepower motor... Then there are lights, etc.   Should I put the blower in a detached shed? Pit? Run 12" pipe between the two? 6" ?   Any special accoustic treatment inside?   There will be a crawlspace under the room. What else do I need to consider? (he said naively)   ---john.    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] New room for the organ... From: "Ron Rarick" <rrarick@gw.bsu.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:00:22 -0500   Some points to keep in mind:   "Should I put the blower in a detached shed? Pit? "   As much as possible, the blower should draw room air so there is little or no temperature difference between what's inside the chests and what's outside them. The ideal, in regard to this consideration as well as the abatement of blower noise, is to put the blower in an ajoining room which is subject to the same heat/a.c. as the organ room.   "Any special accoustic treatment inside?"   Two things:   1. For high frequency response (not just mixtures, but also the overtones that give many 8' stops their character) make sure all surfaces are hard. No big drapes, no carpeting, no "acoustical tile" (even if the architect *is* on their payroll) .   2. For low frequency response (which *is* a great deal of the fun of having your own pipe organ), structure must be very rigid. Studs on 12" center instead of 16." Double thickness drywall. Otherwise the acoustical energy is lost, converted to mechanical energy of the walls vibrating.   Note that both of these criteria take special arrangements when dealing with wood frame construction, but are natural to the environment which pipe organs were designed for from the beginning: stone walls, floor, roof.   Ron Rarick Muncie IN  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] New room for the organ... From: "John Bowers" <JABowers@execpc.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:22:16 -0500   John Haskey wrote: > Run 12" pipe between the two? 6" ?   If you need the capacity of one 12" pipe you will need at least four 6" jobs to get the equivalent amount of air. Why 'at least'? Because of frictional losses in the smaller windlines.   John    
(back) Subject: Re: New room for the organ... From: "John Haskey" <johnh@haskey.net> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:29:37 -0700 (PDT)     Hi, Larry Chace asked for more information about my project so here goes:   1. What type of instrument (high-pressure, low-pressure, enclosed, exposed, etc.)   I'm putting together parts/pipes from two church organs for my Opus I. Most of the ranks are on about 2-3 inches windpressure from what I've been able to determine. Certainly some of the pipes will be exposed, I haven't decided on a swell chamber yet although thatt's a possibility.   2. What sort of climate do you have (regarding a possible outside location =   for the blower)?   I live in the hills above Santa Cruz, CA (~70 miles south of San Francisco) and the temperature ranges from the low thirties to the high nineties. We get *a lot* of rain in the winter.   3. Do you have a basement?   The existing house is on a perimeter foundation with crawlspace of about two feet. I suppose one could excavate for a basement but that's very uncommon in these parts.   4. What sort of height possibilities exist for the organ room?   The room will be built off the back side of the house which is pretty much a blank two story wall with a high gable above. I should be able to have at least 10' side walls and a vaulted ceiling above. I can't go the full two stories without running into a window for the second floor bathroom. (Maybe I should post a picture, hmmm....)   5. Will the organ room be just an organ chamber (with the listening areas elsewhere), or does it include the listening area?   The room will have to serve as both organ chamber and listening space. SWMBO wants to move the grand piano in as well. We plan on having a deck on one side of the room with doors so in nice weather folks can listen from outside...   6. What type of construction is your present building?   Typical two by four framing with drywall on the inside and tongue and groove siding on the exterior.     Here's a crude ASCII (fixed font) picture of the concept so far:   +--------+--------------------+ | | | | Garage | House | | | | +--------+--------------------+ | Music | | | Room | Deck | | |------+ | Organ | +-------+   There will be double doors (replacing an existing sliding door to the back yard) between the house and the music room as well as doors from the music room onto the deck (or at least that's the concept so far.   Any more hints, tips, dos, don'ts would be appreciated. I only get to do this once!   ---john.      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] New room for the organ... From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:45:16 -0500   Ditto on the 10" stud-spacing in pipe chambers. My Wurli sits in a 13x23-foot room directly *above* the dining room downstairs. Super-duper floor-joisting with a steel I- beam on either side.   Sound comes out from the second floor balcony, mixes, and floats down to = the Great Room.   The china cabinets below vibrate as does the inside-wall plumbing from the 'phones.   The blower is in the basement with a 10" line to the 2nd. floor. The basement is a museum with its' own heating n air system.   Rick      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: New room for the organ... From: "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:34:00 -0400   John Haskey <johnh@haskey.net> gave some interesting details about his proposed project. Having gone through some of these same considerations 3 =   years ago when adding on space for an enlarged dining room (with organ chamber underneath), I can appreciate the positve and negative aspects of this sort of planning. The following is just an idea, one that might well =   prove impossible or impractical or undesirable in reality.   Let's take John's diagram:   +--------+--------------------+ | | | | Garage | House | | | | +--------+--------------------+ X | Music | | | Room | Deck | | |------+ | Organ | +-------+   1. With 10' high side walls and a vaulted ceiling, the 16' by 32' room should be rather pleasant. Even if its length is an integral multiple of its width, perhaps the organ enclosure would help break up any undo resonance. The wall height and vaulting will certainly be beneficial.   2. Perhaps the last portion of the floor (where "organ" is located) could be designed so that it does not get installed right now but instead waits until such time as the organ might have to be removed. Let's assume that the entire 16' width (really about 15' inside) is so treated. With a 2' deep crawl space, you could pour a concrete slab in this section to serve as a base for the organ; thereby giving you an effective ceiling height of =   about 12'. That would make installation easier and you could avoid much mitering or horizontal placement of bass pipes. You might be able to design this as a "sunken" area, a conversation pit, as it were, so that = the architect wouldn't think you crazy! (Such an approach would also work = well if the organ space were to not fully consume the 15' of width.)   3. Perhaps a "X" (marks the spot) it would be possible to build a little bump-out to hold the blower, perhaps on its own slab and with ducting running through the music room crawl space for both supply and return. This assumes that the crawl space would be adequately insulated = so that the air remains at a constant temperature. You'll want to provide = for 220v service for the blower, I'd imagine.   4. For tall side walls, use 2*6 framing and go ahead and place it on 12" centers. The carpenters will love it! Use double-layered plaster board and glue the layers together (Elmer's, thinned, applied with a roller). Many folks also suggest a hard plaster finish, Keene's Cement, and perhaps in the Santa Cruz area you might find builders who do a skim coat of plaster.   5. You might be able to design some sort of thing on the "boundary" wall (opposite the organ) that would help break up reflections. I don't know = if a bar might help (for refreshments during organ concerts) or perhaps an angled section of wall. You could always hang a few nice tapestries later =   on if you find that there is a "slap echo" effect. Perhaps you could try (?) leaving the existing tongue-and-grove siding as your "new" interior wall surface (again, opposite the organ). It might serve to limit the = echo and provide at least a tiny bit of diffusion.   6. If the organ design were suitable, you could also try placing it in a corner of the music room, perhaps even at an angle. Let the grand piano occupy the other corner (the "lower" corners in the diagram). Then the organ wouldn't be speaking directly toward the opposite wall.   7. If your design is for a classical-style instrument, perhaps you should plan on encasing it, with the option of installing swell shades behind the =   facade if you later decide you don't want it speaking at full volume at = all times. This gets into the whole other matter of tonal design!   Larry Chace   6.    
(back) Subject: Greetings From: <mts@intergrafix.net> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 04:28:49 GMT   Dear List,   I am a new member to your list, an organbuilder, and proud to say an = owner of a home organ. I am designing it totally from scratch, with only some = pipes from around 1830. I've designed and installed many for churches, theatres, = and even a high school or two, but home organ work is new territory for me. I = look forward to hearing from you, and I've read with great interest the last = few postings. If there's anything I can help with, please don't hesitate to = ask. It is a pleasure to be a member of DIYAPASON-L. Take care.   Chris Malocheski Malocheski Theater Systems   PS: Photos and stoplists are available on request.