DIYAPASON-L Digest #200 - Wednesday, December 6, 2000
 
Re: Caution Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: questionsabout	 windchest/console
  by "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com>
Re: Caution Re: [Residence Organs]  RE:	questionsabout	windchest/console 
  by "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us>
Refurbishing wood pipes
  by <JFick@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Refurbishing wood pipes
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Refurbishing wood pipes
  by "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Refurbishing wood pipes
  by "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us>
Re: Caution Re: [Residence Organs] RE:	questionsabout	windchest/console  
  by "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com>
[Residence Organs]  Re: Caution Re: [Residence	Organs]RE:	questionsabout	
  by "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us>
RE: DIYAPASON-L Digest #199 - 12/05/00
  by "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org>
Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes
  by "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes
  by "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  Refurbishing wood pipes
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Refurbishing wood pipes
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: DIYAPASON-L Digest #199 - 12/05/00
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Caution Re: [Residence Organs] RE: questionsabout windchest/console wiring From: "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:51:23 -0800   What is the DC voltage at the main terminals to the combination unit? = This should not go down more than one volt with maximum load. If it uses transistors to = fire the pistons, the voltage will need to be 14.75 volts. If no transistors are used then = 13.5 volts should work.   Blaine Ricketts   Jon Calvo wrote: > > ** For Your Eyes Only ** > ** High Priority ** > > Hey Guys > Question for anyone I have a Wicks remote Combination action on my organ = and the combination action will not change and when it dose it is sluggish = 2nd problem it won't hold a setting who would be willing to advise me as = to the remedy this problem , has anyone herd of this happening before > thanks > john > > >>> knapton@superaje.com 12/05/00 01:49PM >>> > To Kelvin, Steve (welcome) and list > > Just a word of caution! Kelvin's comments touched a nerve with me. > Most older systems encountered in the U.S. were very simple by design > and polarity need not matter.... HOWEVER! > > Any system (mid 60's or later) which incorporated diodes for spark > suppression, "feeding through control", gating, etc. whether they be > at magnets, stop knobs (or tabs) or elsewhere in the system, cannot > have the polarity reversed at all. > > There were also systems (not likely to be encountered in residence > organs.. but possible) where polarities were mixed in an effort to > balance current consumption. e.g. a seven stop bar and slider chest > with 7 heavy slider motors.... 4 might have one polarity... 3 would > have the opposite... all set to work in balance based upon general > usage of stops. > > There were also instances of "key switching" (without a common wiper) > where a key would activate individual wipers (spades) for each > contact. In turn the circuitry would be customized and even possibly > have both negative and positive at the key for different purposes. > Switching would then be via brush return relays. This system was very > much used by many European builders from early in the last century > until the general adoption of the diode. It is possible to still find > this.... I still know of a few instances.... in fact a competitor has > recently got himself into a really bad situation with a 1963 organ of > ours (HN&B). .... 3 manual & and pedal... all straight.... he > attempted to extend and unify the Pedal reed to provide a Great > Trumpet.... you can now play the Pedal reed (16' if the fuse holds > out) or the Trumpet (8') from G# below middle C... but not both.... > add the Great to Pedal ... entire organ cuts out... but he must know > what he is doing ... he just took a $400.000.00 rebuild from me ... > for now!. > > The same concerns exist if there are any bridge rectifiers in the > system.... anywhere! > > As I hope I have said, please use extreme caution before ever > switching polarity. > > Hugh > > >Steve, > > > >To an electrical engineer wiring an organ would be very basic. The = magnets > >run on about 12 vdc. There are contacts in the keys which usually go to > >gang switches which are operated by the stops. The output from these = gang > >switches is sent to the magnets in the chests. There is a rectifier = which > >provides the 12v. It does not even matter which way you sent the = current > >through the organ. With my old Klann console I reversed it one time to = try > >something out. It all worked fine. > > > >That is the basic case of course and there are fuses and the like that > >ought to be in there. I just replaced my console and computerized the = whole > >organ. But the basics are still the same. There are drivers to turn on = the > >12v current to the magnets instead of contacts. > > > >Kelvin > > > >>> Hi members, > >> My name is Steve Pitts.I am an electrical engineer in = Huntsville, > >>AL..I have been a pipe organ enthusiast since the age of 12.At the age = of > >>18, I worked for a short while for Norville Hall and Associates, Pipe = Organ > >>Builders in Mentone,Alabama.He sold to me a 2M/4R organ for $500 which = I set > >>up in my home.Due to circumstances beyond my control, I lost the > >>instrument.Since that time I have had a goal of having a pipe organ in = my > >>home once again.Now, at age 43 , having better resources available , I = am > >>watching and waiting for the right pipe organ to come up for sale.In = the > >>meanwhile , I am trying to learn as much as possible about pipe organ > >>design: > >> wind supply,voicing and tuning, and especially the electrical = design > >>of the console and wind chest and stop mechanisms.I have searched the = WEB > >>and come up with only sketchy relevant information.Does anyone have = some > >>schematics or general circuit drawings depicting the wiring for the = wind > >>chests and consoles? I am also interested in any information about = pipe wind > >>pressure ratings and how they relate to blower capacity.I would also = welcome > > >any general advice or information about the subject > >> > >> > >> > >>> DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > >>> Residence Pipe Organs. > >>> HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > >>> List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > >>> Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >> > >>DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > >>Residence Pipe Organs. > >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > >>List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > >>Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > > > > > > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > >Residence Pipe Organs. > >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own = Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Caution Re: [Residence Organs] RE: questionsabout windchest/console wiring From: "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 08:16:09 -0600   ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   Blaine I think the setting I have it on is either 12 or 13 volts would = this case the combination to be sluggish       >>> blaineri@home.com 12/06/00 01:51AM >>> What is the DC voltage at the main terminals to the combination unit? = This should not go down more than one volt with maximum load. If it uses transistors to = fire the pistons, the voltage will need to be 14.75 volts. If no transistors are used then = 13.5 volts should work.   Blaine Ricketts=20   Jon Calvo wrote: >=20 > ** For Your Eyes Only ** > ** High Priority ** >=20 > Hey Guys > Question for anyone I have a Wicks remote Combination action on my organ = and the combination action will not change and when it dose it is sluggish = 2nd problem it won't hold a setting who would be willing to advise me as = to the remedy this problem , has anyone herd of this happening before > thanks > john >=20 > >>> knapton@superaje.com 12/05/00 01:49PM >>> > To Kelvin, Steve (welcome) and list >=20 > Just a word of caution! Kelvin's comments touched a nerve with me. > Most older systems encountered in the U.S. were very simple by design > and polarity need not matter.... HOWEVER! >=20 > Any system (mid 60's or later) which incorporated diodes for spark > suppression, "feeding through control", gating, etc. whether they be > at magnets, stop knobs (or tabs) or elsewhere in the system, cannot > have the polarity reversed at all. >=20 > There were also systems (not likely to be encountered in residence > organs.. but possible) where polarities were mixed in an effort to > balance current consumption. e.g. a seven stop bar and slider chest > with 7 heavy slider motors.... 4 might have one polarity... 3 would > have the opposite... all set to work in balance based upon general > usage of stops. >=20 > There were also instances of "key switching" (without a common wiper) > where a key would activate individual wipers (spades) for each > contact. In turn the circuitry would be customized and even possibly > have both negative and positive at the key for different purposes. > Switching would then be via brush return relays. This system was very > much used by many European builders from early in the last century > until the general adoption of the diode. It is possible to still find > this.... I still know of a few instances.... in fact a competitor has > recently got himself into a really bad situation with a 1963 organ of > ours (HN&B). .... 3 manual & and pedal... all straight.... he > attempted to extend and unify the Pedal reed to provide a Great > Trumpet.... you can now play the Pedal reed (16' if the fuse holds > out) or the Trumpet (8') from G# below middle C... but not both.... > add the Great to Pedal ... entire organ cuts out... but he must know > what he is doing ... he just took a $400.000.00 rebuild from me ... > for now!. >=20 > The same concerns exist if there are any bridge rectifiers in the > system.... anywhere! >=20 > As I hope I have said, please use extreme caution before ever > switching polarity. >=20 > Hugh >=20 > >Steve, > > > >To an electrical engineer wiring an organ would be very basic. The = magnets > >run on about 12 vdc. There are contacts in the keys which usually go to > >gang switches which are operated by the stops. The output from these = gang > >switches is sent to the magnets in the chests. There is a rectifier = which > >provides the 12v. It does not even matter which way you sent the = current > >through the organ. With my old Klann console I reversed it one time to = try > >something out. It all worked fine. > > > >That is the basic case of course and there are fuses and the like that > >ought to be in there. I just replaced my console and computerized the = whole > >organ. But the basics are still the same. There are drivers to turn on = the > >12v current to the magnets instead of contacts. > > > >Kelvin > > > >>> Hi members, > >> My name is Steve Pitts.I am an electrical engineer in Huntsville,=   > >>AL..I have been a pipe organ enthusiast since the age of 12.At the age = of > >>18, I worked for a short while for Norville Hall and Associates, Pipe = Organ > >>Builders in Mentone,Alabama.He sold to me a 2M/4R organ for $500 which = I set > >>up in my home.Due to circumstances beyond my control, I lost the > >>instrument.Since that time I have had a goal of having a pipe organ in = my > >>home once again.Now, at age 43 , having better resources available , I = am > >>watching and waiting for the right pipe organ to come up for sale.In = the > >>meanwhile , I am trying to learn as much as possible about pipe organ > >>design: > >> wind supply,voicing and tuning, and especially the electrical = design > >>of the console and wind chest and stop mechanisms.I have searched the = WEB > >>and come up with only sketchy relevant information.Does anyone have = some > >>schematics or general circuit drawings depicting the wiring for the = wind > >>chests and consoles? I am also interested in any information about = pipe wind > >>pressure ratings and how they relate to blower capacity.I would also = welcome > > >any general advice or information about the subject > >> > >> > >> > >>> DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > >>> Residence Pipe Organs. > >>> HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > >>> List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > >>> Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 > >> > >>DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > >>Residence Pipe Organs. > >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > >>List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > >>Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 > > > > > > > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > >Residence Pipe Organs. > >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 >=20 > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 >=20 > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own = Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own=20 Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20    
(back) Subject: Refurbishing wood pipes From: <JFick@aol.com> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:10:53 EST   John Vanderlee,   When you restored the Bardavon Theatre Organ in Pougkeepsie you used some = sort of wax substance on and around the leather of stoppers of wooden = pipes. If memory serves, you said the substance allowed movement for = tuning but once static would tend to lock the stopper in place.   1) What was the substance? 2) Did you also replace felt and leather on the stoppers? 3) How did you clean wooden pipes?   Now that I have a 9R organ to (reasonably) restore for the church, I will = probably be more active on the list. I'd be happy for advice from anyone.   ...with thanks, Jon Fick Westford, Vermont  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:30:10 -0500     >1) What was the substance? Tallow (sheep) I think OSI carries it.   >2) Did you also replace felt and leather on the stoppers? leather - yes, felt in most cases or as needed.   >3) How did you clean wooden pipes? Washed them liberally with lots of alcohol and rags. blew the inside out with commpressed air and got some feather dusters to fit inside and also a large "fluffy" duster commonly found in household departments. Used bottle brushes on smaller ones. > >Now that I have a 9R organ to (reasonably) restore for the church, I will >probably be more active on the list. I'd be happy for advice from = anyone.   Good luck Jon!   John V      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes From: "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 11:16:40 -0500       John Vanderlee wrote: > > > >3) How did you clean wooden pipes? > Washed them liberally with lots of alcohol and rags.   I find that "mineral spirits" work pretty well at wax build up. It's my general first step in working with anything wooden that's been exposed to the ravages of time (and Lemon Pledge).  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes From: "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:25:30 -0600   ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   question I have the 8 ft octave bourdon pipes which are exposed is and = they need attention dose anyone know if refinishing the pipes would hurt = them=20       >>> ron@sensor.com 12/06/00 10:16AM >>>     John Vanderlee wrote: > >=20 > >3) How did you clean wooden pipes? > Washed them liberally with lots of alcohol and rags.   I find that "mineral spirits" work pretty well at wax build up. It's my general first step in working with anything wooden that's been exposed to the ravages of time (and Lemon Pledge).   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own=20 Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20      
(back) Subject: Re: Caution Re: [Residence Organs] RE: questionsabout windchest/console wiring From: "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 08:42:41 -0800   If you are using an electric drawknob or tab Console and a Wicks remote combination action, you need the voltages mentioned below. These need to = be verified with a volt meter at the remote combination while pushing a = piston. You can have a rectifier on some specific voltage tap but depending on the rectifier and the line voltage, you might not have the voltage you want. Likewise, if the rectifier is not located next to the combination action = you could get a voltage drop in your DC feed cables unless you are using a = large gauge wire. Ohms Law and an electric code handbook to look up the = resistance of various sizes of wire per hundred feet is very handy.   What kind of rectifier are you using? What is the continuous and = intermittent current capacity? How many electric stop controls are there in your console. Most of these = units draw 1/2 amp each. Is the organ also a Wicks or something with a direct electric style magnet?   When thing get sluggish and you are using electric action, measure the = voltage first.   Blaine Ricketts   Jon Calvo wrote: > > ** For Your Eyes Only ** > ** High Priority ** > > Blaine I think the setting I have it on is either 12 or 13 volts would = this case the combination to be sluggish > > >>> blaineri@home.com 12/06/00 01:51AM >>> > What is the DC voltage at the main terminals to the combination unit? = This > should not > go down more than one volt with maximum load. If it uses transistors to = fire > the pistons, > the voltage will need to be 14.75 volts. If no transistors are used = then 13.5 > volts should work. > > Blaine Ricketts > > Jon Calvo wrote: > > > > ** For Your Eyes Only ** > > ** High Priority ** > > > > Hey Guys > > Question for anyone I have a Wicks remote Combination action on my = organ and the combination action will not change and when it dose it is = sluggish 2nd problem it won't hold a setting who would be willing to = advise me as to the remedy this problem , has anyone herd of this = happening before > > thanks > > john > > > > >>> knapton@superaje.com 12/05/00 01:49PM >>> > > To Kelvin, Steve (welcome) and list > > > > Just a word of caution! Kelvin's comments touched a nerve with me. > > Most older systems encountered in the U.S. were very simple by design > > and polarity need not matter.... HOWEVER! > > > > Any system (mid 60's or later) which incorporated diodes for spark > > suppression, "feeding through control", gating, etc. whether they be > > at magnets, stop knobs (or tabs) or elsewhere in the system, cannot > > have the polarity reversed at all. > > > > There were also systems (not likely to be encountered in residence > > organs.. but possible) where polarities were mixed in an effort to > > balance current consumption. e.g. a seven stop bar and slider chest > > with 7 heavy slider motors.... 4 might have one polarity... 3 would > > have the opposite... all set to work in balance based upon general > > usage of stops. > > > > There were also instances of "key switching" (without a common wiper) > > where a key would activate individual wipers (spades) for each > > contact. In turn the circuitry would be customized and even possibly > > have both negative and positive at the key for different purposes. > > Switching would then be via brush return relays. This system was very > > much used by many European builders from early in the last century > > until the general adoption of the diode. It is possible to still find > > this.... I still know of a few instances.... in fact a competitor has > > recently got himself into a really bad situation with a 1963 organ of > > ours (HN&B). .... 3 manual & and pedal... all straight.... he > > attempted to extend and unify the Pedal reed to provide a Great > > Trumpet.... you can now play the Pedal reed (16' if the fuse holds > > out) or the Trumpet (8') from G# below middle C... but not both.... > > add the Great to Pedal ... entire organ cuts out... but he must know > > what he is doing ... he just took a $400.000.00 rebuild from me ... > > for now!. > > > > The same concerns exist if there are any bridge rectifiers in the > > system.... anywhere! > > > > As I hope I have said, please use extreme caution before ever > > switching polarity. > > > > Hugh > > > > >Steve, > > > > > >To an electrical engineer wiring an organ would be very basic. The = magnets > > >run on about 12 vdc. There are contacts in the keys which usually go = to > > >gang switches which are operated by the stops. The output from these = gang > > >switches is sent to the magnets in the chests. There is a rectifier = which > > >provides the 12v. It does not even matter which way you sent the = current > > >through the organ. With my old Klann console I reversed it one time = to try > > >something out. It all worked fine. > > > > > >That is the basic case of course and there are fuses and the like = that > > >ought to be in there. I just replaced my console and computerized the = whole > > >organ. But the basics are still the same. There are drivers to turn = on the > > >12v current to the magnets instead of contacts. > > > > > >Kelvin > > > > > >>> Hi members, > > >> My name is Steve Pitts.I am an electrical engineer in = Huntsville, > > >>AL..I have been a pipe organ enthusiast since the age of 12.At the = age of > > >>18, I worked for a short while for Norville Hall and Associates, = Pipe Organ > > >>Builders in Mentone,Alabama.He sold to me a 2M/4R organ for $500 = which I set > > >>up in my home.Due to circumstances beyond my control, I lost the > > >>instrument.Since that time I have had a goal of having a pipe organ = in my > > >>home once again.Now, at age 43 , having better resources available , = I am > > >>watching and waiting for the right pipe organ to come up for sale.In = the > > >>meanwhile , I am trying to learn as much as possible about pipe = organ > > >>design: > > >> wind supply,voicing and tuning, and especially the electrical = design > > >>of the console and wind chest and stop mechanisms.I have searched = the WEB > > >>and come up with only sketchy relevant information.Does anyone have = some > > >>schematics or general circuit drawings depicting the wiring for the = wind > > >>chests and consoles? I am also interested in any information about = pipe wind > > >>pressure ratings and how they relate to blower capacity.I would also = welcome > > > >any general advice or information about the subject > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their = own > > >>> Residence Pipe Organs. > > >>> HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > > >>> List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > > >>> Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > >> > > >>DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > > >>Residence Pipe Organs. > > >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > > >>List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > > >>Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > > >Residence Pipe Organs. > > >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > > >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > > >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > > Residence Pipe Organs. > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own = Residence Pipe Organs. > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own = Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: Caution Re: [Residence Organs]RE: questionsabout windchest/console wiring From: "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:47:30 -0600   ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   it is a Durst older rectifier and console and the wicks combination action = was put in as an after thought there are 46 stops on the stop rail       >>> blaineri@home.com 12/06/00 10:42AM >>> If you are using an electric drawknob or tab Console and a Wicks remote combination action, you need the voltages mentioned below. These need to = be verified with a volt meter at the remote combination while pushing a = piston.=20 You can have a rectifier on some specific voltage tap but depending on the rectifier and the line voltage, you might not have the voltage you = want.=20 Likewise, if the rectifier is not located next to the combination action = you could get a voltage drop in your DC feed cables unless you are using a = large gauge wire. Ohms Law and an electric code handbook to look up the = resistance of various sizes of wire per hundred feet is very handy.   What kind of rectifier are you using? What is the continuous and = intermittent current capacity? How many electric stop controls are there in your console. Most of these = units draw 1/2 amp each. Is the organ also a Wicks or something with a direct electric style magnet?   When thing get sluggish and you are using electric action, measure the = voltage first.   Blaine Ricketts   Jon Calvo wrote: >=20 > ** For Your Eyes Only ** > ** High Priority ** >=20 > Blaine I think the setting I have it on is either 12 or 13 volts would = this case the combination to be sluggish >=20 > >>> blaineri@home.com 12/06/00 01:51AM >>> > What is the DC voltage at the main terminals to the combination unit? = This > should not > go down more than one volt with maximum load. If it uses transistors to = fire > the pistons, > the voltage will need to be 14.75 volts. If no transistors are used = then 13.5 > volts should work. >=20 > Blaine Ricketts >=20 > Jon Calvo wrote: > > > > ** For Your Eyes Only ** > > ** High Priority ** > > > > Hey Guys > > Question for anyone I have a Wicks remote Combination action on my = organ and the combination action will not change and when it dose it is = sluggish 2nd problem it won't hold a setting who would be willing to = advise me as to the remedy this problem , has anyone herd of this = happening before > > thanks > > john > > > > >>> knapton@superaje.com 12/05/00 01:49PM >>> > > To Kelvin, Steve (welcome) and list > > > > Just a word of caution! Kelvin's comments touched a nerve with me. > > Most older systems encountered in the U.S. were very simple by design > > and polarity need not matter.... HOWEVER! > > > > Any system (mid 60's or later) which incorporated diodes for spark > > suppression, "feeding through control", gating, etc. whether they be > > at magnets, stop knobs (or tabs) or elsewhere in the system, cannot > > have the polarity reversed at all. > > > > There were also systems (not likely to be encountered in residence > > organs.. but possible) where polarities were mixed in an effort to > > balance current consumption. e.g. a seven stop bar and slider chest > > with 7 heavy slider motors.... 4 might have one polarity... 3 would > > have the opposite... all set to work in balance based upon general > > usage of stops. > > > > There were also instances of "key switching" (without a common wiper) > > where a key would activate individual wipers (spades) for each > > contact. In turn the circuitry would be customized and even possibly > > have both negative and positive at the key for different purposes. > > Switching would then be via brush return relays. This system was very > > much used by many European builders from early in the last century > > until the general adoption of the diode. It is possible to still find > > this.... I still know of a few instances.... in fact a competitor has > > recently got himself into a really bad situation with a 1963 organ of > > ours (HN&B). .... 3 manual & and pedal... all straight.... he > > attempted to extend and unify the Pedal reed to provide a Great > > Trumpet.... you can now play the Pedal reed (16' if the fuse holds > > out) or the Trumpet (8') from G# below middle C... but not both.... > > add the Great to Pedal ... entire organ cuts out... but he must know > > what he is doing ... he just took a $400.000.00 rebuild from me ... > > for now!. > > > > The same concerns exist if there are any bridge rectifiers in the > > system.... anywhere! > > > > As I hope I have said, please use extreme caution before ever > > switching polarity. > > > > Hugh > > > > >Steve, > > > > > >To an electrical engineer wiring an organ would be very basic. The = magnets > > >run on about 12 vdc. There are contacts in the keys which usually go = to > > >gang switches which are operated by the stops. The output from these = gang > > >switches is sent to the magnets in the chests. There is a rectifier = which > > >provides the 12v. It does not even matter which way you sent the = current > > >through the organ. With my old Klann console I reversed it one time = to try > > >something out. It all worked fine. > > > > > >That is the basic case of course and there are fuses and the like = that > > >ought to be in there. I just replaced my console and computerized the = whole > > >organ. But the basics are still the same. There are drivers to turn = on the > > >12v current to the magnets instead of contacts. > > > > > >Kelvin > > > > > >>> Hi members, > > >> My name is Steve Pitts.I am an electrical engineer in = Huntsville, > > >>AL..I have been a pipe organ enthusiast since the age of 12.At the = age of > > >>18, I worked for a short while for Norville Hall and Associates, = Pipe Organ > > >>Builders in Mentone,Alabama.He sold to me a 2M/4R organ for $500 = which I set > > >>up in my home.Due to circumstances beyond my control, I lost the > > >>instrument.Since that time I have had a goal of having a pipe organ = in my > > >>home once again.Now, at age 43 , having better resources available , = I am > > >>watching and waiting for the right pipe organ to come up for sale.In = the > > >>meanwhile , I am trying to learn as much as possible about pipe = organ > > >>design: > > >> wind supply,voicing and tuning, and especially the electrical = design > > >>of the console and wind chest and stop mechanisms.I have searched = the WEB > > >>and come up with only sketchy relevant information.Does anyone have = some > > >>schematics or general circuit drawings depicting the wiring for the = wind > > >>chests and consoles? I am also interested in any information about = pipe wind > > >>pressure ratings and how they relate to blower capacity.I would also = welcome > > > >any general advice or information about the subject > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their = own > > >>> Residence Pipe Organs. > > >>> HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > > >>> List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > > >>> Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 > > >> > > >>DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > > >>Residence Pipe Organs. > > >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > > >>List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > > >>Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > > >Residence Pipe Organs. > > >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > > >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > > >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > > Residence Pipe Organs. > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own = Residence Pipe Organs. > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 >=20 > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20 >=20 > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own = Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own=20 Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20    
(back) Subject: RE: DIYAPASON-L Digest #199 - 12/05/00 From: "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:24:39 -0800   Hi Steve Pitts! I'm a lurker on this list but I have to respond! I'm a native of Florence, Alabama, and I worked for a amateur pipe organ tuner = and repairman that also worked for Norville Hall. His name is Ed Carter. I = had two N. Hall junkers in my time, and gave the last one away when I moved to the San Francisco Bay area, and I really miss tinkering. I've collected a fair inventory of free organ pipes out here, but no mechanism as of yet, = but someday....   My college training concentrated in sacred music and organ performance, = and I studied with Betty Louise Lumby, Janette Fishell, and Tom Ed Moore, of = the University of North Alabama, who I think is a list member here. Best wishes!   Randy Terry Minister of Music, Organist & Choirmaster The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes From: "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:51:12   Hi Jon, I've just restored/refinished several sets of wooden pipes. Sometimes when =   there are only slight scratches and the pipes are just dirty, I've used mineral spirit-based , waterless-hand cleaner (available in the automotive =   section of most hardware stores. The active ingredient : mineral spirits plus surfactants, hence cleans more efficiently than plain mineral = spirits. Rub pipes with this stuff using fine /superfine steel wool(my preference) = or rags. Wipe off the liquified dirt with paper towels or rags. If your hand cleaner contains (look at label) stearates it is safer to give a final generous wipe with mineral spirits. Mineral spirits remove wax/grease/ stearates which can interefere with finish you might want to apply later. Allow to dry at least overnight. You can then apply the finish. I usually pad-in 3 coats of shellac. Note: Someone on the list has recommended Murphys' soap. I haven't used it =   just in case the pipes are really old and had been glued with hide glue. = I was scared the water rinse might affect the glued seams. I think with more =   recent pipework, the more modern glue would be resistant to water. Also, = be careful with the lemon oil-type of furniture cleaner/polish. Some of them contain silicones which can interfere with the application of some = finishes (in case , you have to refinish). Just read components on the label. If the pipes are badly gouged and the finish seems badly oxidized, = stripping shellac with denatured alcohol / methanol using medium fine steel wool might be necessary. None of the pipes I've restored were finished with something other than shellac and nmost of them didn't require stripping. I'd appreciate any comments on the method I've used. Thanks Homer >From: JFick@aol.com >Reply-To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >Subject: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes >Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:10:53 EST > >John Vanderlee, > >When you restored the Bardavon Theatre Organ in Pougkeepsie you used some =   >sort of wax substance on and around the leather of stoppers of wooden >pipes. If memory serves, you said the substance allowed movement for >tuning but once static would tend to lock the stopper in place. > >1) What was the substance? >2) Did you also replace felt and leather on the stoppers? >3) How did you clean wooden pipes? > >Now that I have a 9R organ to (reasonably) restore for the church, I will =   >probably be more active on the list. I'd be happy for advice from = anyone. > >..with thanks, >Jon Fick >Westford, Vermont > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >   ___________________________________________________________________________= __________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : = http://explorer.msn.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes From: "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 14:10:41 -0500   .....sounds good, re the cleaners.   re the steel wool, there is some possibility of residual steel wool particles changing to rust. If bronze wool is available to you, it solves that problem. Non-metallic pads are good, too. Ed, in Maine.   ----- Original Message ----- From: homer valenzona <dochome@hotmail.com> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 6:51 PM Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes     > Hi Jon, > I've just restored/refinished several sets of wooden pipes. Sometimes = when > there are only slight scratches and the pipes are just dirty, I've used > mineral spirit-based , waterless-hand cleaner (available in the = automotive > section of most hardware stores. The active ingredient : mineral spirits > plus surfactants, hence cleans more efficiently than plain mineral spirits. > Rub pipes with this stuff using fine /superfine steel wool(my = preference) or > rags. Wipe off the liquified dirt with paper towels or rags. If your = hand > cleaner contains (look at label) stearates it is safer to give a final > generous wipe with mineral spirits. Mineral spirits remove wax/grease/ > stearates which can interefere with finish you might want to apply = later. > Allow to dry at least overnight. You can then apply the finish. I = usually > pad-in 3 coats of shellac. >    
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:15:47 -0500   Careful with the alcohol- it could loosen glue joints if soaked too much. = I use 409 or Fantastic lightly wetted on a sponge. Mineral spirits sounds = good also.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Calvo <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes     ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   question I have the 8 ft octave bourdon pipes which are exposed is and = they need attention dose anyone know if refinishing the pipes would hurt them       >>> ron@sensor.com 12/06/00 10:16AM >>>     John Vanderlee wrote: > > > >3) How did you clean wooden pipes? > Washed them liberally with lots of alcohol and rags.   I find that "mineral spirits" work pretty well at wax build up. It's my general first step in working with anything wooden that's been exposed to the ravages of time (and Lemon Pledge).   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org       DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Refurbishing wood pipes From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:17:53 -0500   Mink Oil for leather tuning stoppers works as well as tallow- and can be bought at WallyWorld. Bee's Wax works too- also at WW.   Rick      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: DIYAPASON-L Digest #199 - 12/05/00 From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:20:36 -0500   For Mr. Randy Terry-   Is the Capn's Galley Pizza Parlour still there in Redwood City, Ca.?   I had an album by Jack Gustavson playing the 4m -something Wurli there.   Thanks,   Rick