DIYAPASON-L Digest #209 - Wednesday, December 20, 2000
 
RE: questions about windchests/pipe ranks
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
Re: [Residence Organs] RE: questions about windchests/pipe ranks
  by <WAYNE_BURCHAM@rsausa.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: questions about windchests/pipe ranks
  by "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: questions about windchests/pipe	ranks
  by "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us>
Re: questions about windchests/pipe ranks
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: questions about windchests/pipe ranks From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:23:05 -0600     I am trying to understand the organization of windchests and the pipes on them.It seems that most ranks of pipes for sale that I have seen (on = various classified adds) have 49 pipes, although I have seen some that have 61, 73 or 88.Given that a standard manual has 49 keys, where are the rest of the pipes allocated?How many pipes do most windchests hold?I am assuming they typicaly hold 49. I have seen some windchests described as "pedal offset chests" that hold 12 notes.I assume that these 12 are the lowest octave.Where do the rest of the pedal notes come from?   thanks for the very useful responses on all my previous questions..the Residence Organ List is a great resource..  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: questions about windchests/pipe ranks From: <WAYNE_BURCHAM@rsausa.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:27:40 -0500     Steve, Normally the organ manuals have 61 keys, thus 61 pipes per rank. 73 pipes would indicate that there is another octave added to the rank. 85 would indicate that another 2 octaves are added to the rank. A pedal offset of 12 pipes would indeed be the low octave. The rest of the pipes could be borrowed from manual pipes, or there could be a pedal offset because the low 12 pipes are too large to fit on the pedal chest and are put on their own offset. Hope this helps. Regards, Wayne NYC and Milford, PA     = STEVE PITTS = <steve.pitts@adt To: Residence Organ List = ran.com> <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> = Sent by: cc: = <DIYAPASON-L@pip Subject: [Residence = Organs] RE: questions echat.org> about windchests/pipe ranks = = = 12/20/00 10:23 = AM = Please respond = to "Residence = Organ List" = = =           I am trying to understand the organization of windchests and the pipes on them.It seems that most ranks of pipes for sale that I have seen (on various classified adds) have 49 pipes, although I have seen some that have 61, 73 or 88.Given that a standard manual has 49 keys, where are the rest of the pipes allocated?How many pipes do most windchests hold?I am assuming they typicaly hold 49. I have seen some windchests described as "pedal offset chests" that hold 12 notes.I assume that these 12 are the lowest octave.Where do the rest of the pedal notes come from?   thanks for the very useful responses on all my previous questions..the Residence Organ List is a great resource..   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: questions about windchests/pipe ranks From: "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:16:35 -0500       STEVE PITTS wrote: > > I am trying to understand the organization of windchests and the pipes = on > them.It seems that most ranks of pipes for sale that I have seen (on = various > classified adds) have 49 pipes, although I have seen some that have 61, = 73 > or 88.Given that a standard manual has 49 keys,   Actually, more modern insturments have 61 keys on the manual. 56 is also a common manual size. 88 is a strange number. There are some organs that use 88 key ranks (with or without keyboard support) to work with normal piano rolls.   The longer compasses occur for a few reasons: 1. For the benefit of using couplers. 2. For ranks that are duplexed/borrowed (i.e., connected to more than = one stop. A common use is to extend a manual rank down an octave and also connected to the pedal. That explains 73 (61 + 12) 3. Of course then there is the case of UNIFICATION (#2 taken to extremes). My organ has one stop with over 90 pipes because it is connected to stops ranking from 16' on up.       > ?How many pipes do most windchests hold?I am assuming they > typicaly hold 49.   Depends. In the case of my 90+ pipe rank the lowest 12 notes are on an offset chest PURELY because they wouldn't have fit into the chamber = otherwise (that chest they share with the pipes 3-16 of the 16' bourdon). The bulk of the pipes sit on the chest that holds two other (not so extensive stops) and then the top octave or so sits on another small chest which = also has the top octave of one of my string ranks.   > I have seen some windchests described as "pedal offset > chests" that hold 12 notes.I assume that these 12 are the lowest > octave.Where do the rest of the pedal notes come from?   Some other chest. Typically, the offset is used to get the base of the pipes either in the facade or closer to the floor. As I said, my organ was designed for a 16' ceilling. the 16' Dulciana sites on a chest that sits on the floor (and is still mitred to fit). The rest of the ranks sit on chests that are designed to be mounted with the pipe toes up about 2 above the floor.   >  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: questions about windchests/pipe ranks From: "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:37:41 -0600   ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   Steve=20 hi=20 it has been my experience that most chest topically hold two ranks please = bear in mind that I have delt with mostly unit chest work each chest would = hold two ranks but the reason that bigger chest are bigger I have found = that some builders made it so that you could join chest to gether and = either a for lack of a better term a wooden coupler to hold each chest = together so that a installation could have an 8 rank chest 4 2's=20   and typically a unit chest will start out with a min of 61 notes and will = go up to 85 or 97=20 Hope this helps you understand the concept of unification=20   if you have a copy of the Barnes contemporary American organ=20 he gives a good definition of unit chest and unification=20   thanks God Bless john       >>> ron@sensor.com 12/20/00 11:16AM >>>     STEVE PITTS wrote: >=20 > I am trying to understand the organization of windchests and the pipes = on > them.It seems that most ranks of pipes for sale that I have seen (on = various > classified adds) have 49 pipes, although I have seen some that have 61, = 73 > or 88.Given that a standard manual has 49 keys,=20   Actually, more modern insturments have 61 keys on the manual. 56 is also a common manual size. 88 is a strange number. There are some organs that use 88 key ranks (with or without keyboard support) to work with normal piano rolls.   The longer compasses occur for a few reasons: 1. For the benefit of using couplers. 2. For ranks that are duplexed/borrowed (i.e., connected to more = than one stop. A common use is to extend a manual rank down an octave and also connected to the pedal. That explains 73 (61 + 12) 3. Of course then there is the case of UNIFICATION (#2 taken to extremes). My organ has one stop with over 90 pipes because = it is connected to stops ranking from 16' on up.       > ?How many pipes do most windchests hold?I am assuming they > typicaly hold 49.   Depends. In the case of my 90+ pipe rank the lowest 12 notes are on an offset chest PURELY because they wouldn't have fit into the chamber = otherwise (that chest they share with the pipes 3-16 of the 16' bourdon). The bulk of the pipes sit on the chest that holds two other (not so extensive stops) and then the top octave or so sits on another small chest which = also has the top octave of one of my string ranks.   > I have seen some windchests described as "pedal offset > chests" that hold 12 notes.I assume that these 12 are the lowest > octave.Where do the rest of the pedal notes come from?   Some other chest. Typically, the offset is used to get the base of the pipes either in the facade or closer to the floor. As I said, my organ was designed for a 16' ceilling. the 16' Dulciana sites on a chest that sits on the floor (and is still mitred to fit). The rest of the ranks sit on chests that are designed to be mounted with the pipe toes up about 2 above the floor.   >   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own=20 Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20      
(back) Subject: Re: questions about windchests/pipe ranks From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:52:52 EST   Dear Steve:   There are two kinds of arrangements of organ chests. The first is the traditional chest with as many notes as there are keys in the manual that controls it. A manual of 58 notes (tracker - old style) would have a = chest with 58 pipes in each rank that keyboard (manual) controlled. A single keyboard would then control many ranks of pipes and this would be called a =   division which would take the name of the manual. The Great Organ would = be the manual with all of the largest selection of pipe stops. The Choir = would be an accompaniment to the Great with its own set of pipe ranks. This arrangement is called a "straight" organ and the modern organs have 61 = pipes for 61 keys for each rank voice. So if you wanted a flute at 8' on the manual and you also wanted a flute at 4' on the manual you would have to = have 2 ranks of pipes, one starting at 8' for 61 notes and one at 4' for 61 = notes to give you both sounds together. Chests for straight organs can hold as many pipes as want. I have worked on large organs of over 100 ranks of = pipes where a single chest may have 30+ ranks on it. Portability is not an = issue!   The other form of organ is the Hope-Jones invention of the Unit Organ. It = is electrically or electronically operated. This means that you can have 61 notes on the keyboards but the ranks may have more than 61 pipes because = they may be drawn at different pitches. A rank on a straight organ may start = at 8' pitch while the unit organ lets you select a stop where low C on the manual might start. To add a 16' octave the rank would now have 73 pipes with the 12 pipes set on the offset bass chest. To add a 4' stop to the = rank the number of pipes would be brought to 85. To go to 2' you would get 97 pipes. 88 is the number of keys on a piano but not what you would find in = an organ. So the theoretical rank we devised is at 16,8,4, &2 foot pitches = on the keyboard, in effect it is like having each rank be given its own set = of couplers and allowing the rank to be on any manual or the pedals. This = later system has advantages and disadvantages. Mostly it is found on theatre organs like Wurlitzer, Kimball, Smith, Page, Robert Morton, and the like where a completely different tonal design in employed.   I hope that answers your question and helps,   Al Sefl