DIYPASON-L Digest #4 - Wednesday, January 12, 2000
 
Re: Tuning Saucer bells
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: Homemade Chimes and etc.?
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Looking for ZIMBELSTERN bells
  by "John Haskey" <johnh@haskey.net>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  Looking for ZIMBELSTERN bells
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Subject: Re: [Residence Organs]  Looking for ZIMBELSTERN bells
  by "Dave McClellan" <drmc@speedfactory.net>
In search of flanges for windlines
  by "Wietstock, Steven M" <swietsto@indiana.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: ZIMBELSTERN/Saucer bells
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: Zimbelsterns
  by "Bart Kleineweber" <prinzipal8@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Zimbelsterns
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs] Chimes and etc.
  by "Bart Kleineweber" <prinzipal8@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Zimbelsterns
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Zimbelsterns
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Howdy to All!
  by "Elders, Craig" <c.elders@tcu.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Tuning Saucer bells From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:48:11 EST   Hi Tim, Bob, and Daniel:   First off, I know Bob was referring to the heavier bell metal of the older =   telephone bells. The modern stamped bells just have the wrong metal composition and thickness. All you can do with them to any degree is to remove material from the lip to change the pitch. True Saucer Bells are tuned by taking material off of the inside of the bell with a radius tool = bit holder with the bell chucked on a lathe. Some tuning may be done on the outside lip also. With a mixed set you use your tuning forks or Korg electronic, etc., to find out what pitches the bells are closest to. Then =   you put the bells in a line for tuning. Bell metal is somewhat soft and = will grab a tool bit thus destroying itself. There is an art to turning brass = and the first secret is to use a dull bit ground to the task from a chart or book. I first take a little off the inside in an arc and then measure the =   pitch. If I am going in the correct direction then I take a little more = off in the arc. If I am going in the wrong direction, I take some off from = the lip area inside with just a light cut.   I used all of the ones I had for a 25 note set, sorry Tim.   Best of luck,   Al Sefl  
(back) Subject: Re: Homemade Chimes and etc.? From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 01:14:03 EST   > The talk of Zimbelsterns has been interesting and here is a twist on = that > theme: has anyone experimented with making other percussions? In > particular, I wonder about chimes or xylophones or orchestral bells or = the > like.   I've made small xylophones as toys for people, nothing more than 14 notes, =   replacement bars for TOs from Marimbas to xylos, and glockenspiel bars = which are nothing more than a slightly hardened steel bar. Tuning on both is = done by taking material off the ends and/or from the middle. The best wood = for the xylo bars is Dalbergia stevesonii (Honduran rosewood). The best metal =   for the glock is Starret hardened and ground to size tool steel bar. You = can work it while it is soft then put in into a furnace to bring out the = carbon into solution with the iron and you have a killer bar. Hardened aircraft aluminum works best for the chrys/vibra applications.   > During the summer, I often notice the windchimes hanging on the back = porch. > They are made of lengths of 1/2" copper pipe, suspended by (nylon?) = string, > and hit with a wooden striker. They are tuned (a "diyatonic" scale) and > really sound quite pleasant. I wonder if it might be possible to create > something akin to a Harp (Celeste) or Chrysoglott/Vibraphone using such > tubes? > Anyone??? > Larry Chace >>   Hi Larry:   It is possible and fun too. I know of one organ installation with two chrys's. One at A-440 and the other at A-435 make for a great vibraphone effect. Most windchimes are tuned to a pure temperament rather than the equal temperament we use with our modern instruments. What is fun is to = go to a windchime store and find two sets made by two different people then = hit just the corresponding chime in the set to see if you can get a beat. = More often than not you can because these sets are cut to length but rarely = tuned precisely to pitch. These forms of tubular chimes have pitch strictly as = a function of length. I find the hardened aircraft aluminum tubing to be superior to the electrical tubing used in the cheaper windchimes. Make = your own then give them for Xmas presents. It goes over big here in hot tub = and peacock feather county! ;-)   Regards,   Al Sefl  
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Looking for ZIMBELSTERN bells From: "John Haskey" <johnh@haskey.net> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:45:07 -0800 (PST)     Hi,   I haven't introduced myself to the group yet but will try to do so very soon. Anyway, with respect to zimbelstern bells, a local builder has made a very successful air powered zimbelstern that features hole saws as the bells. Instead of throwing out some dull hole saws he recycled them into a zimberlstern. As far as stiking mechanisms, I've seen several organs here on the west coast that use two dowels mounted on an old turntable to strike bells fixed about the perimeter of the unit. Hope this helps...   ---john.      
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] Looking for ZIMBELSTERN bells From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:23:01 -0500   I agree on the hole saws. I have one or two dull Black/Decker saws, and they ring just beautifully.   I have built many pressure actions for traps and percussions in my shop = for local organ people in my area. I don't do sloppy work.   Rick   ----- Original Message ----- From: John Haskey <johnh@haskey.net> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 2:45 AM Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Looking for ZIMBELSTERN bells     > > Hi, > > I haven't introduced myself to the group yet but will try to do = so > very soon. Anyway, with respect to zimbelstern bells, a local builder = has > made a very successful air powered zimbelstern that features hole saws = as > the bells. Instead of throwing out some dull hole saws he recycled them > into a zimberlstern. As far as stiking mechanisms, I've seen several > organs here on the west coast that use two dowels mounted on an old > turntable to strike bells fixed about the perimeter of the unit. Hope > this helps... > > ---john. > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > with the following in the BODY of the message: > Unsubscribe DIYAPASON-L(-Digest) >      
(back) Subject: Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Looking for ZIMBELSTERN bells From: "Dave McClellan" <drmc@speedfactory.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:28:42 -0500   Thanks for everyone's help and advice regarding my Zimberstern bells question.   As Steven Weitstock wrote, Pier One no longer carries the bells. That was the first place I checked. Also checked other similar import type stores. The so called "holiday bells" I did find are not appropriate to the application (cheap, lightweight, probably not brass).   Al Sefl mentioned a "bell tree". What is that? I'm not familiar with the item. Please describe.   I ordered a (drum) catalog from Interstate Music. I assume that's the correct catalog that might contain "bell trees".   Bob Loesch and others mentioned "saucer bells" (from old phones). I have two of these (different pitches) on my current lashup. They work great (sold brass, and heavy). This is exactly the kind of bell I am looking for. I assume they can be "tuned" by removing metal from the edge on a lathe. Maybe I'll look around for some junk phones with real bells.   Dave      
(back) Subject: In search of flanges for windlines From: "Wietstock, Steven M" <swietsto@indiana.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:54:42 -0500   One item that I have been searching for in the restoration of my home = organ are at least 2 (4 would be better) 10" oval flanges (ID =3D 12.5" wide x = 6" tall) on the intake side of the great and swell main reservoirs. I have = had no luck in locating these. The largest I have been able to find are 8" = oval flanges.   Any suggestions as to places to contact?   Thanks,   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Steven M. Wietstock, Ph.D. Phone: 812-855-2700 Coord. of Instructional Programs Fax: 812-855-8300 Department of Chemistry, C021 Indiana University Email: swietsto@indiana.edu 800 E. Kirkwood Ave Bloomington, IN 47405-7102 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: ZIMBELSTERN/Saucer bells From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:41:07 -0800   At 11:13 PM 01/11/2000 -0400, you wrote: >how do you tune saucer bells from old telephones > I have some, I may give it a try     By chucking in a lathe, material can be removed from the edge to raise the pitch. Lowering the pitch is difficult, as the material is so thin, but = if it's just a hair too sharp, removing a TINY amount of material from the top/center of the bell will lower it slightly. I learned this technique from Dick Schroder of Encino, CA, who just recently passed away. He used to tune Wurlitzer sleigh bells to make them speak true.     Regards,   Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA   http://www.jps.net/rrloesch   Time flies whether you're having fun or not!   The best things in life aren't THINGS.  
(back) Subject: Re: Zimbelsterns From: "Bart Kleineweber" <prinzipal8@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:54:33 CST   Does anyone on the list make them or sell them or have a used one for = sale? I think I'd rather have a real one than a home made jobber.   Bart Kleineweber Chicago, IL Prinzipal8@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Zimbelsterns From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:02:10 EST   I know a fellow who make's them,his name is Bob Knight,his e-mail or web address is Imperialredwizrd.He can help you out I am sure. Have fun Dennis  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Chimes and etc. From: "Bart Kleineweber" <prinzipal8@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:16:32 CST   Larry Chace wrote:   >The talk of Zimbelsterns has been interesting and here is a twist on that >theme: has anyone experimented with making other percussions? In >particular, I wonder about chimes or xylophones or orchestral bells or = the >like. > >During the summer, I often notice the windchimes hanging on the back = porch. >They are made of lengths of 1/2" copper pipe, suspended by (nylon?) = string, >and hit with a wooden striker. They are tuned (a "diyatonic" scale) and >really sound quite pleasant. I wonder if it might be possible to create >something akin to a Harp (Celeste) or Chrysoglott/Vibraphone using such >tubes? > I don't think a harp or chrysoglott is made from tubes, but rather, metal bars. I know of someone in Wisconsin who made a set of chimes out of = brass tubing, cutting it to different lengths to tune it. He then put a chime action in front of it and Voila!, chimes!   Bart Kleineweber Chicago, IL prinzipal8@hotmail.com   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Zimbelsterns From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:00:40 -0600   At 1/12/00 09:54 AM, Bart wrote: >Does anyone on the list make them or sell them or have a used one for = sale? >I think I'd rather have a real one than a home made jobber. <snip>   If you are willing to look at new "commercially available" units, I would highly recommend the zymbelstern as built by Klann. They use real, cast brass (miniature) handbells -- a truly lovely sound. The bells can be infinitely arranged for their volume/ring pattern, and the motor of the unit has a built-in variable speed control. I believe it also runs from organ DC power, requiring no extra relay/switching apparatus. Offhand, I seem to remember that they are not prohibitively expensive, but I'm sure someone at Klann would be happy to give you info. I think their contact information is listed under <links> on the DIYapason-L webpage.   Hope this helps.   Tim  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Zimbelsterns From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:14:24 -0800   At 09:54 AM 01/12/2000 CST, you wrote: >Does anyone on the list make them or sell them or have a used one for = sale? >I think I'd rather have a real one than a home made jobber.   Klann and OSI both used to offer them, but they are rediculously = EXPENSIVE.   Regards,   Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA   http://www.jps.net/rrloesch   Time flies whether you're having fun or not!   The best things in life aren't THINGS.  
(back) Subject: Howdy to All! From: "Elders, Craig" <c.elders@tcu.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:25:05 -0600   Happy New Year to all!   I would like to introduce myself to this new list. I am Craig Elders from Fort Worth, Texas. I am the Associate Director of Student Affairs for Information Services here at TCU, Texas Christian University. Last May, my new home instrument began playing! That was 5 years after I brought home = my first rank of pipes. Eleanor is a classical III/23. I built all my own electro-mechanical chests except for 2 EP chest for the low octaves of my 16' Bourdon and 16' Lieblich Gedeckt. My console is the 1981 Moller = console from Orchestra Hall in Chicago. I even wired my own relay, a Z-tronics, from Allen Miller. My combination actions is a Peterson's MSP-1000.   What a wonderful and exciting task/love/joy this has been. A lot of times = I would wonder if I had bitten off more than I should. But if you were to come by my house, you will see it is now hard to pry me off the bench! I have a man that is a voicer for one of the local builders doing voicing as his spare time permits. I have many tasks to finish, but again, after so long, it is such a treat to just sit and play. Often people wondered why = I did not start playing with just a rank or two and add to that. I don't believe I would have ever finished the organ doing it that way. There are things I needed to "finish" last May that are still on my list. But you know, there is a lot of new music that I am trying to teach Eleanor to = play. And since she has to use my fingers to do it, she needs a lot of = practicing, a lot!   I have made friends with several local builders. They call me when they need an extra hand. I have got to do a little of everything. From = holding notes for tuning and general maintenance to spending days/weeks in = chambers doing final tonal finishing. I can never hear exactly what these voicers are hearing. But they yell the instructions to me as I work on the individual pipes. That is something that can only be experienced from "being there". I take my pay in question "answering" and help as I always have a long list of questions. Every once in a while I spend a week of vacation or even a few days at what I call "Camp Garland". That is I = spend that time with my organ builder friend Dan Garland. It may be doing shop work, loading up a new instrument, installing, or help on a maintenance call. There is nothing like "on the job training". And nothing like such = a wonderful and kind person to learn from.   Plus, I am not sure that my instrument would be working now nor be as successful without the help from so many on the PIPORG-L list. There are = so many builders that take the time to help us build our dream. They supply = us with answers to a zillion questions, they tell up how to accomplish things without "learning the hard way", the give us encouragement, and many of = them are able to supply us the massive amounts of parts we need. I will never = be able to show my gratitude to all of them, including the list masters that allow all this to happen. This is why I am so excited that we now have = this new list. Hey, it is just for US!   David Scribner has put some pictures of Eleanor under my name on our new list's "members web pages". I invite you to visit and see what Eleanor looks like. I am glad to be a member of the group and let you know that = if there is ever ANYTHING that you think I might be able to assist you with, please let me know. I would like to return all the help that so many have given to me.   Have a great new year!   Craig