DIYAPASON-L Digest #9 - Monday, January 17, 2000 rectifier wiring by "Brian Graham" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring by "Ron Natalie" <email@example.com> Re: [Residence Organs] Introduction by "Tom Dimock" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: [Residence Organs] Pipe Organ System Design by "Ron Natalie" <email@example.com> Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Relay questions by "Randy Newman" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: [Residence Organs] Relay questions by "Ron Natalie" <email@example.com> Re: [Residence Organs] Relay questions by "David Scribner" <firstname.lastname@example.org> FWD: Peterson Customer Service by "David Scribner" <email@example.com> relays by "Gary Black" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Fwd: Stuff for sale in NJ by "David Scribner" <email@example.com> Peterson Customer Service by "Richard Schneider" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: [Residence Organs] Pipe Organ System Design by "John R. Ball" <email@example.com> rectifier wiring by "Richard Schneider" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: [Residence Organs] Relay questions by <DEMPAR1@aol.com>
(back) Subject: rectifier wiring From: "Brian Graham" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:28:54 -0600 I "inherited" a Durst 30 amp rectifier w/ my organ. (It wasn't originally part of the organ). I'm not sure how to wire it, or how to wire the organ to it. The posts on the internal rectifier buss bar are as follows: 1,2,3,4,12V, 13V, 14V, 15V, POS, NEG The only wiring diagram on the case shows four points, 1, 2, 3 & 4. For = 110 V operation the diagram shows 2 wires coming in. One to attach to posts 1 & 2 and the other to attach to posts 3 & 4. For 220 V operation, posts 2 & 3 are wired to each other and the wires coming in are attached to posts 1 & 4. In both cases, there are two wires coming in, and there is no indication as to whether these wires are hot or neutral. There is a wire from one of the internal components of the rectifier to = the 12V post. Questions: 1) Does it matter very much whether I hook the rectifier up to 110V or = 220V power? There is only enough space left in my electrical panel for one 220 breaker, which I was going to use for the blower. Could the rectifier go on the same circuit as the blower? 2) Does it matter which post the AC hot and neutral wires are attached to? (The wiring diagram doesn't indicate which is which.) 3) Is there a simple way to test the functioning of the rectifier before I hook it up to the organ? 4) There are buss bars in the console, on the legs of the chests, etc. Do = I simply run a wire from each positive buss bar to a positive buss bar at the rectifier, ditto for negative? Or is it not that simple. Is any power regulation device required between the rectifier and the organ? Thanks in advance!
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring From: "Ron Natalie" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:53:37 -0500 To the rectifier itself, it cares not which is hot or neutral, it sees only the difference between the two. The only way it makes a difference is if for some stupid reason, one side is connected to the case (which should NOT be). Check it with a ohm meter. If one side is, then make sure that one goes to neutra. > Questions: > 1) Does it matter very much whether I hook the rectifier up to 110V or = 220V > power? The thing should work just fine on 110. The thing should draw far less than 15 amps, you could put it on just about any circuit. I would *NOT* put it on the blower circuit. Leave that for the motor alone (though I have to admit,that many are wired up that way purely for convenience purposes). > > 3) Is there a simple way to test the functioning of the rectifier before = I > hook it up to the organ? Connect it up to the AC and then measure the voltage on the DC wires. Should be 12V (or whatever you've jumped the thing). > > 4) There are buss bars in the console, on the legs of the chests, etc. = Do I > simply run a wire from > each positive buss bar to a positive buss bar at the rectifier, ditto = for > negative? Just hook up the wires to the bus.
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Introduction From: "Tom Dimock" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:06:50 -0500 At 06:50 PM 01/14/2000 -0600, you wrote: >Before you buy new pneumatics from Austin -- you should check out several >companies that offer releathering services. Well, I did qualify that as "when I win the lottery", so I'm not really expecting to do it. Most likely scenario is still doing them all myself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Tom Dimock ---- Cornell University ---- firstname.lastname@example.org "There go my people. I must follow them, for I am their leader." M. = Gandhi
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Pipe Organ System Design From: "Ron Natalie" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:19:58 -0500 "John R. Ball" wrote: > I am posting my system design overview to the list in hopes of getting > coments that will support or improve it. Not much of it is really built = yet > so that it can still be changed. However, I will still "build it = myself" > because 1) it's my hobby, and 2) it costs less. > I've thought along much similar lines. Frankly, if I were just doing it to get the job done there seems to be a few electronic relays out there (Solid State Logic looks to be my favorite). However, like you, I was seriously considering a similar computer control as you, since even the cheapest computer on the market these days has more than enough horsepower to play this game once you get all these 15VDC pipe-organ logic connected to the machine. What are you using for the interface for all the inputs and outputs? I'm still probably going to build my own MIDI box for the Moller but the relays look in good enough shape that I'll just use them and wire-or the computer to it. -Ron
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:34:26 -0500 Brian Graham asked about wiring his Durst rectifier. I'd offer the following suggestions. The wire "from the internal components" is used to select the final output voltage; connect it to the terminal labelled with that voltage: 12V, 13V, 14V, or 15V. POS and NEG are the outputs. This is the time to add fuses to the DC wiring, something that was not = done "in the old days" but which is now required by the National Electric Code and which makes good sense. I'm not an electrician, and I don't play one on TV, so you should find a more official source for information. (There have been posts to PIPORG-L in the past by builders who are licensed electricians. I'll try to find some of those and re-post here.) The details of how to split the DC feed and return wires depend somewhat = on how your instrument was wired in the first place, but in general you will split off from the heavy feed (or return), using a fuse in the 4 to 6 amp range for each branch, which will then be carried by at least a 14 gauge copper wire. The idea to limit the rectifier's ability to convert itself into an arc-welder should a short circuit develop. You will also have to consider the other DC wiring. The NEC says that if you "move" the old double cotton covered wiring, then you must replace it with new wiring with approved insulation (PVC, etc.). Time to go find those other notes... Larry Chace >I "inherited" a Durst 30 amp rectifier w/ my organ. (It wasn't = originally >part of the organ). > >I'm not sure how to wire it, or how to wire the organ to it. >The posts on the internal rectifier buss bar are as follows: 1,2,3,4,12V, >13V, 14V, 15V, POS, NEG > >The only wiring diagram on the case shows four points, 1, 2, 3 & 4. For = 110 >V operation >the diagram shows 2 wires coming in. One to attach to posts 1 & 2 and = the >other to attach >to posts 3 & 4. For 220 V operation, posts 2 & 3 are wired to each other >and the wires coming >in are attached to posts 1 & 4. In both cases, there are two wires = coming >in, and there is no >indication as to whether these wires are hot or neutral. > >There is a wire from one of the internal components of the rectifier to = the >12V post. > >Questions: >1) Does it matter very much whether I hook the rectifier up to 110V or = 220V >power? There is only >enough space left in my electrical panel for one 220 breaker, which I was >going to use for the blower. >Could the rectifier go on the same circuit as the blower? > >2) Does it matter which post the AC hot and neutral wires are attached = to? >(The wiring diagram >doesn't indicate which is which.) > >3) Is there a simple way to test the functioning of the rectifier before = I >hook it up to the organ? > >4) There are buss bars in the console, on the legs of the chests, etc. = Do I >simply run a wire from >each positive buss bar to a positive buss bar at the rectifier, ditto for >negative? Or is it not that >simple. Is any power regulation device required between the rectifier = and >the organ? > >Thanks in advance! > > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org
(back) Subject: Relay questions From: "Randy Newman" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:20:51 -0500 (EST) Some recent posts discussing relays have got me thinking about what to use for my basement organ. I'm just about ready to start wiring things up but i'm having second thoughts about using the late 60's klann electro-mechanical relay that was given to me. even though the specification is adequate to run the organ, i'm afraid i'm going to run into reliablity problems and at this point have better things to do than run about fixing relay problems. i'd rather not wire the entire thing up to find out that i need to replace it anyway and do all the work twice. are any of you familiar with 60's era klann relays and should i be concerned? also, if i decide to replace the klann, i would go solid state. there seem to be so many different brands available. i'd like to know which ones you've had sucess with and which ones to stay away from. obviously cost is the major factor for me, but i'd also like to have something that is expandable for future addons. two relays that i've read a bit about are from syndyne and emutek. both look like nice products from their literature. info on any brands would be appreciated. thanks. -randy
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Relay questions From: "Ron Natalie" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:51:43 -0500 I've looked at specs for a lot of relays, though I have no experience = directly. However, Solid State Logic has *LOTS* of docs on their unit on line, so at = least it's good reading even if you don't end up going that way.
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Relay questions From: "David Scribner" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:58:21 -0600 Randy I would advise against using the Klann relay unless it is completely out of the question for purchasing a new SS control system for the organ. At this point you are taking about something that is 30+ years old and even if it OK right now it may develop reliability problems. Plus, it may limit you in the future. I am using the Artisan system on my home instrument and am very pleased with it. I did a lot of research on the various systems available and felt that for my purposes the Artisan system was the best. I have the organ spread out in two locations, the Great is in the Living Room and the breakfast nook of the Kitchen, which are separated by a large opening that has some decorative columns. The Swell is in my Master Bedroom which is right off of the Living Room. With my set-up I have one computer in the console and one in each division. All of those are connected by an Ethernet cable of 8 wires that I was able to snake through the attic between the divisions. From each "chamber" computer output board there is a 6-wire phone cable that runs to the Rank Driver boards which can be mounted right on the side of the chest, or in a couple of cases in my set-up, inside of the chest. All of this makes the wiring much easier - no big cables running from the console to the "chambers" or between the "chambers". The other, and most important for me, feature is that I can respecify the organ any time I want using an old DOS laptop connected to the console computer. Several of the other systems I looked at needed to have EPROMS "burnt" by the manufacturer to change the specifications of the instrument. Of course, that is fine for an instrument going from a professional builder into some place like a church where the organ specs won't change. But since, as I add more ranks to my instrument and even change the console to a 3 manual one instead of the two manual currently in use, I can just write a new "host" file and respec the organ myself. Hope this helps. There is a link on the list's web site to the Artisan web site and also one of the people from Artisan are on this list so they may have more information for you regarding they system. David
(back) Subject: FWD: Peterson Customer Service From: "David Scribner" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:21:01 -0600 The following was posted on the PIPORG-L this morning but I know not everyone on this list is a subscriber to that list. I have contacted Scott Peterson and have gotten his permission to repost it here. In his note to me Scott wrote: "Yes, by all means feel free to copy my piporg-l posting to the = Diyapason-L. I'm glad to have as many people as possible understand our policy. As = I'm sure you can tell, I'm very protective of our reputation for excellent customer service. We're not perfect, but all of us here at Peterson try very hard to be fair and courteous to all." I think this is very good explanation of the attitudes of the various supply firms and the difficulties they face in dealing with those of us that are hobbyists. And it also gives us a good background as how to approach these firms. The first part are copies of the postings that Scott was referring to and I hope the original posts won't be upset that they are included as part of this posting. For those of you that have already seen this on PIPORG-L I'm sorry that you are getting it again but I felt it was important enough to do this forwarded posting to this list. David ***************FORWARDED POSTING***************************************** >Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:50:25 EST >From: Jeffrey Trimble <SwellShoe@aol.com> >Subject: Re: What is an enthusiast to do? > >It seems to me that any company that gets a little smart with their >customer base takes a chance of getting a black eye. That is not >good. Bad for business. > >and... > >There's nothing more I hate than BAD SERVICE and RUDE >SERVICE. As someone mentioned about Klann and Peterson, >they could have kindly explained their position and *maybe* >even suggested alternative routes. And when I receive BAD >SERVICE and/or RUDE SERVICE, I write a letter to them >reminding them of the power of communication to others in >the profession. > >My $.02 worth. > ------------------------- ------------------------- >Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:22:20 -0500 >From: Jim Swist <firstname.lastname@example.org> >Subject: Re: Organ supplies > >Oh, and I forgot about Peterson. In a prior life I was a hobbyist and = you >wouldn't believe the response I got from them. I would paraphrase it as = "go >away little boy and put your father on the phone, then we'll talk". > >It's not so much trying to protect their big customer base as the = *attitude* >that really gets you.... > ------------------------------ ------------------------------ After trading some emails with Jim Swist and Jeffrey Trimble regarding their postings above, I am writing now to give other readers "The Rest of the Story". I contacted Jim and Jeffrey individually and the resulting e-dialogs helped get to the bottom of Jim's bad experience and, I believe, clear the air for all of us. I was surprised and concerned to read Jim's comment last week because each year I receive several dozen written and verbal comments from customers praising the helpful, courteous efforts of our customer service staff. It is extremely rare that I hear complaints about inquiries to our company being responded to in a rude or uncooperative manner. After getting more info from Jim, my suspicions were confirmed that the less-than-tactful way his inquiry to Peterson was handled was traceable to a particular former customer service representative of ours. Some years ago this employee had been "short" with some other callers; he didn't seem to understand that every caller must be treated with respect, courtesy, and a friendly and helpful demeanor; consequently, his employment with us was terminated long ago and I understand that he = now works for someone else and has entirely different responsibilities. I offered my sincere apology to Jim Swist and he assured me that all = contacts he's had with us over the last couple of years have been fine. I also received a cheerful reply from Jeffrey. An explanation of my thoughts and our policies regarding selling to = amateur organ servicepersons and hobbyists might be of interest to some readers. If so, read on! This is a tricky issue for my company as well as the other suppliers to the pipe organ industry...several of us have discussed it = with each other at various times, each hoping to create our own fair policies. In one regard, it is to any company's advantage to sell their products and services to as many customers as possible, so none of us like to turn away a caller who wishes to place an order. On the other hand, many people who make their living building and servicing pipe organs strongly object to suppliers allowing their potential clients to buy equipment directly, or receive wholesale pricing information, essentially undercutting their livelihood. Often a significant markup on parts is necessary to cover the many costs of running a service business, yet I've heard stories of church members accusing organbuilders of impropriety for trying to charge more = for parts than a manufacturer quoted the church directly. This seems = analagous to someone calling a pharmaceutical company for wholesale pricing and then confronting Walgreens about why they marked up a prescription's price. Organ professionals, like the Walgreens store in this example, offer lots of extra value but doing so is expensive. Not everyone understands just how expensive it really is. In most professions and fields of expertise, manufacturers sell wholesale only to people with specific credentials or other clear qualifications = that show they are "legitimate" members of the profession. However, there is = no examination, license, requirement to own extensive specialized capital equipment, or similar measurable qualifications necessary before someone can provide services as a pipe organ technician. We are forced to find another basis for where to draw the line. Some persons who work on pipe organs only on a hobby basis or as a favor to their own church are very knowledgeable and highly skilled at particular aspects of this work, while others may think it looks easy but are not able to do a professional quality job. It is not a supply firm's responsibility to judge the qualifications of someone who wishes to work on pipe organs, yet someone with little knowledge of the trade who wishes to help out their church may potentially require an extensive (and expensive to the supplier) amount of help from the equipment supplier, especially in the case of complicated custom control systems. They may also end up with an installation that reflects poorly on the supplier's products. A supplier could choose to offer separate wholesale and retail pricing for professional and amateur customers, but determining who must pay the retail price would be treacherous. My company's policy on this has generally been as follows: When persons call from churches claiming to be "electronics experts" and the like, wishing to buy organ components directly so as to save their church some money, we politely encourage them to contact an organ professional...perhaps starting with the company that has already been maintaining the organ or the firm that built it originally...because of = the expertise and learned skills required to install our products properly. = If the church has no regular organ service firm, we might also send them to a directory of organ builders who use Peterson control systems on the web site <http://www.pipeorgans.com> . In the case of people who do not make = a living working on organs but who are knowledgeable enthusiasts, have spent a lot of time around organs, maintain them in various ways, and seem based upon the conversation to be qualified to install the equipment they hope = to buy, we will use our best judgement and often agree to sell the equipment to them, especially if no organ service company has been involved with the instrument for many years because the enthusiast has handled everything. True hobbyists working on a home organ project and highly unlikely to ever be a customer of an organbuilding/ maintenance company will find that we are usually entirely willing to deal with them directly since this situation is not likely to "step on any toes" and because the endeavor is probably based on a good knowledge of, and passion for, organs. These unwritten "rules of thumb" represent our best efforts to be fair to all who would like to purchase our equipment. Interestingly, the incident behind Jim Swist's comment last week resulted from a call to Peterson (a couple of years ago) in which Jim told our former staffer that he represented a church that wanted ballpark pricing = on equipment for an organ project so that they would be able to decide = whether it was worth calling their regular organ serviceperson. Jim feels that "ballpark price" is the operative term and he emphasized to me that he was not requesting firm wholesale price information. However, attempting to offer a ballpark total price for our products installed by another firm is truly a no-win situation...if we quote a number that is too high, we risk unnecessarily killing the project; too low and the organbuilder will = wonder why we are making his price seem too high! While I apologized to Jim that his call wasn't handled more tactfully, I told him that his wanting to get an idea of what the organbuilders' cost would be before calling the organbuilder represented the most difficult scenario for us to cooperate with. Jim's last reply let me know he now understands my point of view. One final thought...on-line discussion groups and list servers represent a powerful forum for spreading information, and sometimes misinformation, about others who may or may not realize they are being written about. = Good reputations can be fragile and are certainly much easier to damage than to build. My company is generally known as a group of people who are friendly, fair, and good to deal with largely because, for over fifty years, the people who make decisions here simply would not have it any other way. It is disturbing that with a few keystrokes and a mouse click or two, large numbers of readers can receive bits and pieces of a story that, without all the facts, might lead hundreds or perhaps thousands of folks to have a lower opinion of an individual or company than they deserve. More concerning is that if one didn't happen to monitor PIPORG-L, they wouldn't even know about it! I think that when there is a trial of opinion on the net, it is appropriate for the "accused" to be invited to participate. I'd urge people who make derogatory postings to remember the powerful and widespread forum they are working in. Scott Peterson, President Peterson Electro-Musical Products, Inc. Scott Peterson <email@example.com> Voice 708.388.3311 Peterson Electro-Musical Products, Inc. Fax 708.388.3341 11601 South Mayfield Avenue http://www.PetersonEMP.com Alsip, IL 60803 USA = http://www.PetersonTuners.com
(back) Subject: relays From: "Gary Black" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:21:44 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=3D_NextPart_000_0028_01BF570A.77364CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Randy and others that are thinking about new relays. I have =3D purchased a new relay from Peterson's in Alsip, IL. They have been the = =3D best! Whenever I have a question I call and deal with Bob Dommer there. = =3D He is knowledgeable and very courteous. The folks at Peterson's try =3D their best to help. I will be buying from them the necessary equipment = =3D for combination action. I have also purchased from them new stop =3D controls too. They have different types and styles of stop action. I =3D chose rocker style tabs and they look wonderful on the nameboard. I =3D hope this helps. Gary ------=3D_NextPart_000_0028_01BF570A.77364CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Hi Randy and others that are thinking = =3D about new=3D20 relays. I have purchased a new relay from Peterson's in Alsip, =3D IL. =3D20 They have been the best! Whenever I have a question I call and =3D deal with=3D20 Bob Dommer there. He is knowledgeable and very courteous. =3D The folks=3D20 at Peterson's try their best to help. I will be buying from them =3D the=3D20 necessary equipment for combination action. I have also purchased = =3D from=3D20 them new stop controls too. They have different types and styles =3D of stop=3D20 action. I chose rocker style tabs and they look wonderful on = the=3D20 nameboard. I hope this helps. =3D Gary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=3D_NextPart_000_0028_01BF570A.77364CC0--
(back) Subject: Fwd: Stuff for sale in NJ From: "David Scribner" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:42:22 -0600 A forward from PipeChat in case anyone is interested. >Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:37:42 -0500 >From: "Mr. Jan S. Vanderstad" <firstname.lastname@example.org> > >PARTS FOR SALE: MAKE OFFER & PICK UP! CASH & CARRY. > >8' Principal 42 scale 61 pipes 4" wind pressure; offset chest for notes >1-12...good condition....$250 >8' Swell Wood Gedeckt 61 pipes 4" wind pressure beautiful mellow >tone...$300 >Reisner relay for 2 manual organ EXCELLENT condition. 8-10 stops on each >division; more can be added make offer >8' Principal notes 1-12 ONLY $100 >1 Orgelectra Rectifier 110 Volts AC- 12-20 Volts DC output $30 >1 Orgelectra Rectifier 110 Volts AC- 12-10 Volts DC output $30 >One Dog-leg style bench; Maple ?? finish make offer > >Gotta clean out storage shed ASAP > >Mr. Jan Vanderstad
(back) Subject: Peterson Customer Service From: "Richard Schneider" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:38:21 -0600 Dear list: I would like to not only echo, but add my own laudatory remarks to Scott Peterson's well-thought-out posting regarding their company's products and services. I have used their products in several of our "high-profile" installations over the past 15 years. In that same time period, have asked their Organ Systems Sales people to quote a good many more systems than have ever come to fruition in the form of contracts for us, and resulting orders to them. All of this without any form of complaint or even the slightest hint of: "you sure ask us to quote a lot of organs, don't you?" Knowing how long it takes for *me* to pull together a Tender for an organ project, and recognizing how hard it is to quote the individualistic requirements of these different systems (basically, they have to design them before they can realistically quote them!), multiplied by the large number of builders they deal with causes me to pause and take my hat off to them for having the willingness of being there to do this and thus meet a real need we have without charge to us for doing so! Given that amount of work, it would be no wonder to me that they might wish to "pre-qualify" the people they work with, given the small percentages of quotes that actually come to fruition for them as it is from even the "legitimate" people. (I'd wonder what that percentage really is, or if they've ever figured it out!) Just last Thursday, I made my way to Chicago to pick up what has been the most expensive system that Peterson has ever built for us for a large 3 manual project we're doing. One can just sense the high level of satisfaction and pride in a job well done that the folks in the Organ Systems department feel when one of their systems goes out the door on its way to what they surely must hope is a well-performed installation destined to give years of trouble-free and reliable service to the ultimate customer. Every one of the folks throughout the facility have, every time I've visited, made me feel very important and appreciate our business very much. There's been many a time that there have been technical questions regarding an installation I'll be working on and whenever I call, unless there are some VERY extenuating circumstances, someone will be able to work through my question in a way that I understand perfectly when I'm through. The importance of that kind of response-time to someone out in the field on expensive installation time is very hard to underestimate. Personally, I would put Peterson at the head of the list in terms of a company caring about its customers of just about everyone I've dealt with in this Industry over the years. Faithfully, "Arp in the Corn Patch" Richard Schneider SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Organbuilders 41-43 Johnston St. P. O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX firstname.lastname@example.org Business EMAIL email@example.com Personal EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com Web Page URL
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Pipe Organ System Design From: "John R. Ball" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 16:48:53 -0500 Hi Ron, I have designed three CMOS cards for I/O, input, line drive, and rank = drive. They have minimal logic since I can program the control signals from the = PC. They are essentially shift registers, with power drivers for the output cards. Regards, John Ball > > What are you using for the interface for all the inputs and outputs? > > I'm still probably going to build my own MIDI box for the Moller but > the relays look in good enough shape that I'll just use them and > wire-or the computer to it. > > -Ron > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >
(back) Subject: rectifier wiring From: "Richard Schneider" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:53:09 -0600 Larry Chace wrote: > Brian Graham asked about wiring his Durst rectifier. I'd offer the > following suggestions. > The wire "from the internal components" is used to select the final = output > voltage; connect it to the terminal labelled with that voltage: 12V, = 13V, > 14V, or 15V. POS and NEG are the outputs. > > This is the time to add fuses to the DC wiring, something that was not = done > "in the old days" but which is now required by the National Electric = Code > and which makes good sense. I'm not an electrician, and I don't play = one > on TV, so you should find a more official source for information. = (There > have been posts to PIPORG-L in the past by builders who are licensed > electricians. I'll try to find some of those and re-post here.) Well, I don't play one on TV either (although I do play one on organ installation job; and for a good reason: I AM one!!!) > The details of how to split the DC feed and return wires depend somewhat = on > how your instrument was wired in the first place, but in general you = will > split off from the heavy feed (or return), using a fuse in the 4 to 6 = amp > range for each branch, which will then be carried by at least a 14 gauge > copper wire. The idea to limit the rectifier's ability to convert = itself > into an arc-welder should a short circuit develop. This usually entails that each windchest (in the case of Electro-Mechanical action) should have its own return to that 6 amp fuse. One "handy" thing to use is the new-style "automotive" fuses that are brightly colored pieces of plastic with two inline "tabs" on them. Any decent auto supply store has inexpensive fuse blocks you can mount inside the organ structure to run the junctions back to. Unfortunately, 6 amps is an "odd" sized fuse, so you'll likely have to go with the more ubiquitous 5 amp size. > You will also have to consider the other DC wiring. The NEC says that = if > you "move" the old double cotton covered wiring, then you must replace = it > with new wiring with approved insulation (PVC, etc.). The "etc." is self-soldering magnet wire. This is easy to work with and makes very small cable harnesses, although the mind rebels at the idea of "bare-looking" wire in contact with so many others not being a short waiting to happen! A couple of other notes: Grounding is very important to an organ installation. Some things *want* to be grounded, while others do not. One thing for sure, make sure your DC output is NOT grounded on either side. But DO make sure that your rectifier case IS grounded (use a separate green wire, not the neutral conductor, BTW!). If your area is prone to lightning problems, do what I do, which is to, first of all, put a computer grade surge suppresser on line for the rectifier input. Secondly, set up a double-pole, double throw relay so that when the organ is ON, the hot and neutral go through the contact points of the relay and into the rectifier. When the contactor is OFF, you want to have the rectifier tie down to ground on both sides, so that it will be immune to lightning strikes. >Questions: >1) Does it matter very much whether I hook the rectifier up to 110V or = 220V >power? There is only >enough space left in my electrical panel for one 220 breaker, which I was >going to use for the blower. It makes no difference. The rectifier doesn't "care", but do put it onto its own circuit breaker in any event. > Could the rectifier go on the same circuit as the blower? Don't do this. There are very many reasons, including the fact that blowers turn into generators when they're "coasting" to a stop off-line and send the power back into the rectifier if they're on the same circuit! >2) Does it matter which post the AC hot and neutral wires are attached = to? The transformer doesn't care, but as was already suggested: be sure that none of the input lines (1-2-3-4) are connected to the chassis case before you proceed. >3) Is there a simple way to test the functioning of the rectifier before = I > >hook it up to the organ? If it's going to run solid state, you may want to connect a good digital VOM to the output and set it on AC, to see if there's any "ripple" on the DC output that the solid state equipment won't like! If there is, get a good sized computer-grade power supply CAP, or even some of those Capacitors they're using in what I call "chickenheart" (thump-thump!) car sound systems nowadays to connect parallel to the output of the rectifier DC. That will substantially smooth-out any AC ripple in the supply and basically eliminate it. This is a good idea anyway, but remember: these babies STORE electricity, and if you put a screwdriver across the terminals, even when the power's off, it'll put out a VERY healthy jolt! If you're going to simply run an old analog (non-solid-state) system, just get a 12VDC auto light bulb and hook it across the outputs! >Is any power regulation device required between the rectifier and >the organ? No. The Rectifier IS the power regulation device!! Faithfully, "Arp in the Corn Patch" Richard Schneider SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Organbuilders 41-43 Johnston St. P. O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX firstname.lastname@example.org Business EMAIL email@example.com Personal EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com Web Page URL
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Relay questions From: <DEMPAR1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:13:53 EST There is one major consideration once you decide to go with a solid state relay. Do you want your system to rely on a computer which can become obsolete or where the manufacturer of the relay hardware or software may = no longer support the system you have, or do you want to stick to solid state = components that can be replaced whether the manufacturer is there or not? = For this reason, I chose to use a Devtronics relay. All of the components = could be replaced with off the shelf parts from an electronics supply house were = Devtronics ever to go away. In a dire emergency, even a printed circuit = board could be recreated by a board manufacturer. Devtronics uses standard = diodes, driver chips and resistors and capacitors that you can buy anywhere. There = is no special circuitry other than standard diode matrix switching and transistor current switches. The computer based systems are great and flexible. I have worked with the Artisan and Peterson systems so I have = some first hand experience. The only trouble would come if those companies were = ever to go out of business or stop supporting the particular model product = you have. That is the real issue once you decide to go solid state.