DIYAPASON-L Digest #10 - Tuesday, January 18, 2000 Re: [Residence Organs] Peterson Customer Service by <DEMPAR1@aol.com> Re: [Residence Organs] Relay questions by <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Organ Web Site Audio Clips? by "Dave McClellan" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: [Residence Organs] Organ Web Site Audio Clips? by "Bart Kleineweber" <email@example.com> Re: [Residence Organs] Introduction by "Bob Loesch" <firstname.lastname@example.org> greetings by "Caroline Kehne" <email@example.com> introduction by "Louis Huivenaar" <firstname.lastname@example.org> rectifier wiring by "Brian Graham" <email@example.com> Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring by "Richard Schneider" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring -A sequel by "Richard Schneider" <email@example.com> Re: [Residence Organs] Introduction by "Paul Arndt" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: [Residence Organs] Introduction by "VEAGUE" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Peterson Customer Service From: <DEMPAR1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:48:18 EST We have just finished the installation of a Peterson relay on the ROSF Wurlitzer in Jackson, LA. While we had some problems with the initial = sales representative following through, Scott Peterson and his staff did get the = product turned out as promised and it was exactly as represented. As for whether it was an easy installation, be forewarned. In the case of the Jackson organ, both my associate and I had professional electronics backgrounds involving computers, power generation and space program = controls. The documentation that Peterson furnishes is so basic and generic that we found the installation to be a serious challenge for our technical = abilities. This equipment can be very easily damaged and repair ain't cheap. Our 10 rank/2m organ had over 1500 wiring connections and every wire represents a = potential short or back-feed that can do serious damage to the relay. I = can understand Peterson's position in not wanting to sell their products to people whose technical abilities they have no means of judging. I would = also suggest that anyone who has not had the opportunity to install a solid = state relay, without benefit of help from someone who has, consider whether = trying to save a few bucks is worth the risk.
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Relay questions From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:51:55 EST Hi, I would like to add my electrical experience to this. When I bought = the organ from the fellow in Fallbrook,it had been in stored off and on for I guess about thirty years. The console had never been hooked up, it is a = Klann with one of their tripper combo.system's.It misses ounce and a while, so I = added a power supply to the console for the combo. machine it self. Now it = is almost repeatable. The stop switches in the garage are all new except one. = I have been told to loose all this stuff and go computerized. This mean's replacing all the stop tab's with Sam's, 70 or so, at about 15.00 dollars each. Then you get to buy the rest of the stuff. The cost killed it, and also the part's being new even though thirty years old, it is allot of wiring, but it is twelve volt's, it is easy to trace problems with a test light or buzzer. I will some day replace the tripper combo. machine, some day, but I = like the old stop switches and the wiring that goes with. If the combonation computer get's sick you can still turn on stop's by hand. Of to work. Dennis
(back) Subject: Organ Web Site Audio Clips? From: "Dave McClellan" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:21:25 -0500 Does anyone know of a legal source for short, classicial organ audio files for use as a background for an organ web site? Any donors out there? Dave
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Organ Web Site Audio Clips? From: "Bart Kleineweber" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:49:41 CST The Classical Midi Archives is a great source for all classical music in midi format. I have a few of my own midi sequences posted there. The URL = is www.prs.net Bart Kleineweber Chicago, IL firstname.lastname@example.org ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Introduction From: "Bob Loesch" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:02:42 -0800 At 06:27 PM 01/15/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Hi! My name is Paul Arndt. [murmurred responses; "Hi, Paul"...] >Just this past fall, I finally found a Theatre Pipe organ for myself. It >is a Wicks 2/6. Congratulations! You've now joined the ranks of the terminally insane... = ;-) >The organ also has several >Robert-Morton pieces, so it is already a hybrid. Possibly not, Paul. You might not be aware, but Wicks often built instruments under the Morton nameplate when the Van Nuys factory got = behind in their orders. I own a Morton/Wicks Style 39 pit organ. The only difference was that the Morton nameplate listed "factories in Van Nuys, Cal. and Highland, Ill." Best of luck with your new 'toy'! Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA http://www.jps.net/rrloesch Time flies whether you're having fun or not! The best things in life aren't THINGS.
(back) Subject: greetings From: "Caroline Kehne" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:38:24 -0500 Just a quick note of introduction. I was first smitten by pipes at the age of 7 by a E.P. Biggs LP of the organ in Sion, Switzerland. Since then, I've been planning for an instrument. I tried my hand a paper pipes (from Mark Wick's book), but schooling got in the way until 1989 when a 6-rank 1969 Wicks became available. It has classical voicing (no nicking, open toes, low WP) and is currently set up in our carriage house. It really needs an 8' open diapason to give it a solid foundation (the gedeckt and gemshorn just don't cut it). I've slowly been collecting parts to expand the instrument to a combination of French Classical and French Romantic. To be added; 8' open, melodia, vox, viol d'orch+celeste, 16-8-4 gamba, 16-8-4 trumpet, clarinet, harm flute, mixture III, rohrflute, nazard and tierce. There's even a 16-ft open wood, but I may not install it simply because of the size (kinda fun to go crawling down the CCC pipe, though). So naturally I'm interested in how to hook all this stuff up without ending up with a room which is 50% relays. Oh yes, then there's a 3-rank Moller Artiste which I'm currently rewiring (the scorch marks on the chest make me very uneasy). What a mess! Gotta love that green cloth-wrapped wire! I also own a few other instruments in various stages of restoration; an 1880s Bell upright piano (water leaked on the keyboard), a Wilcox and White 65-note push-up piano player (needs pneumatic work), a 46-note Aeolian style 1500 player reed organ (total rebuild), an Aeolian 64-note player piano (more pneumatic stuff), 3 Estey reed organs, a Spang melodeon, a Mason and Hamlin parlor organ, a Dominion chapel reed organ, a folding Thomas organ, an early (1820-30s) seraphine?harmonium (French?English?), a Peloubet 6-rank church reed organ, and a 5-rank pipe top Vocalion (pressure reed organ). Oh... and then there's the Zuckerman harpsichord!! As you can tell from this list, I have a soft spot for orphaned organs, especially when an auctioneer is pointing out how easy it would be to convert them into desks(aaaa!!!). But seriously, folks. Time to stop collecting and start repairing. I'm currently finishing up another Estey reed organ which will be a gift to the local Anglican Padre. I also get involved with volunteer work in relocating pipe organs in peril and helping out fellow hobbyists, esp. with touching up pipe voicing. My motto: Seek and you shall find (also; Be careful what you wish for...) I currently reside in a Gothic Revival farmhouse (another restoration project!) in southern Quebec, Canada, which is only about a 3-minute drive to civilization (USA). In a past life, I was a research scientist for Agriculture Canada, where I got eaten alive by bureaucrats. Best wishes to the success of the DIY list. If the hobbyists don't look out for each other, who will? Robert Pelletier
(back) Subject: introduction From: "Louis Huivenaar" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:44:34 +0100 Hello List, I'm from the Netherlands, Europe and being a fulltime restorer Reedorgans and Harmoniums, Appraisser under Oath Reedorgans and Harmoniums and instruments which are connected to those. Builder and restorer of Pipeorgans, specified in little churchorgans, residenceorgans, cabinetorgans and barrelorgans which are famous in the Netherlands. Still I like to restore harmoniums and reedorgans the most. Only a few people in the world know how difficult it is specially when you have to restore all type of instrument which was made all over the world. What do you think off the need off so many spareparts?? Well, my stock is full but not full enough! I have to restore instruments in Japan, Argentinia, and Europe. About my organwork. In several months I have to start with a complete restoration of a 2/7 = Estey residence organ from 1927. Also to play with rolls. One of my customers in Belgian was interested so I gave him the address in the States and he bought it. The instrument is only very damaged inside. Water!!!!!!!! But next year it will be reborned again. It kills every organ or harmonium/reedorgan. Well, next time more. Greetings Louis Huivenaar Netherlands Harmonium and Reedorgan restorer Appraiser under Oath for Harmoniums and Reedorgans in Europe +31 75 684 4858 ( Tel/Fax Factory) +31 75 684 6552 ( Privat) +31 653 117 697 ( Mobil) Website: www.harmoniums.com
(back) Subject: rectifier wiring From: "Brian Graham" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:50:03 -0600 Thanks to Ron Natalie, Larry Chace and Richard Schneider for the wiring tips! I'll take a while to think it over, look at the console and rectifier = again and probably come back with some additional questions. Even though my message probably wasn't worded correctly, my question about = a power "regulator" was based on the assumption that the positive = conductor from the rectifier would only connect to a positive buss bar in the console. This rectifier wasn't set up for this particular organ, and I was trying = to make sure that I didn't hook it up the first time and immediately melt half of the wires in the console. Bare with me, I'm not very electrically inclined, but does the rectifier basically make a potential current available, and something like the resistance of a closed circuit actually determines how much current flows? If it is true that the positive only connects to the console, then would I put fuses on the negative returns to the rectifier? Thanks!
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring From: "Richard Schneider" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:05:40 -0600 Brian Graham wrote: > Thanks to Ron Natalie, Larry Chace and Richard Schneider for the wiring > tips! I'll speak for everyone and say you're welcome! > I'll take a while to think it over, look at the console and rectifier = again > and > probably come back with some additional questions. Fire when ready. > Even though my message probably wasn't worded correctly, my question = about > a power "regulator" was based on the assumption that the positive = conductor > from > the rectifier would only connect to a positive buss bar in the console. Actually: there are usually BOTH bussbars in the console: a Positive *and* a negative. When nothing is on, generally the only thing that is running is the indicator bulb on the console that says "WIND", or some other similar innocuous device to tell you (unless the blower's loud enough to do it!) that the organ's running and you have "juice!" > This rectifier wasn't set up for this particular organ, and I was trying = to > make sure > that I didn't hook it up the first time and immediately melt half of the > wires in the console. Rectifiers are basically "generic" devices, in that the basic requirement is that they are capable of delivering the maximum amount of power that the organ requires. In other words: if the organ requires some 60 amps of power (and few do that you'll come across!), than a 30 amp supply ain't gonna cut it. The only time you'd have to worry about something melting is if there's some kind of short in the organ wiring, like a burned-out magnet (although that usually results in an "open", or dead circuit, rather than a short circuit). If the organ wiring is little better than a Rat's nest, then look out! > Bare with me, I'm not very electrically inclined, but does the rectifier > basically > make a potential current available, and something like the resistance of = a > closed > circuit actually determines how much current flows? There is a regulator circuit built within the rectifier itself that governs its output based upon the load connected to it, up to its maximum output. If you exceed that value, you then blow the rectifier output fuse. In other words: let's assume that most chest magnets, for the purposes of this discussion, consume a half-amp (this would be generally slightly high, but it makes the numbers work easier for calculation purposes) apiece. If you have on one stop, and push down 10 keys at once, you'd have, essentially speaking, a 5 amp load connected across the rectifier. If you then turn on an additional 3 stops, then the load increases to 15 amperes. All the while, the rectifier is (or SHOULD be!) doing it's job of making sure that the output voltage remains the same irrespective of the load connected to it. > If it is true that the positive only connects to the console, then would = I > put fuses > on the negative returns to the rectifier? Fusing depends greatly upon the kind of control and circuitry you use. Some solid state systems feed negative for chest returns while others use positive. Generally, if you're using an older non-solid-state system, the generally accepted practice is to use negative for the chest returns and positive for the console feeds. The correct wiring color code for DC "mains" voltage is black for the Negative and red for Positive. Don't use white colored wire at all! This coding serves the useful purpose of knowing what side of the line you're dealing with and making sure you don't connect something where it's not supposed to be and send the Rectifier to Mars in the process! Hopefully, this gives you a little clearer understanding of what's going on in the Rectifier's thought-process! They're alive, you know. . . :o) Faithfully, "Arp in the Corn Patch" Richard Schneider SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Organbuilders 41-43 Johnston St. P. O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX firstname.lastname@example.org Business EMAIL email@example.com Personal EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com Web Page URL
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring -A sequel From: "Richard Schneider" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:30:03 -0600 Dear list, In re-reading my post about rectifiers, I realized that I guess I really didn't say *where* the fuses should go in the circuit. The best plan is to have them configured for the Windchest (or any other group of magnet loads) returns so that there's no more than 6 amps of load connected across any one circuit! This is the maximum allowable by the National Electric Code. The purpose of this is to protect the tiny wires (usually #26 or 28) that are running from the keys to the individual magnets. Also remember that this is the time to replace all of that nasty cotton-covered wire with either Nylese (self-soldering magnet wire) or else TELCO cable. And BE SURE YOU FOLLOW THE TELEPHONE COMPANY COLOR CODE OR ELSE YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE YOU KNOW WHO KNOWS AND WILL HAVE TO EVER SERVICE THE PIPE ORGAN WILL HATE YOU ETERNALLY AND DAMN YOU TO HELL FOR NOT FOLLOWING IT!!!!! By measuring the resistance and doing a little Ohm's Law, you can easily calculate just how many magnets you can place on each circuit. Also, it's a good idea to "de-rate" the circuit to about 80% of the connected load, so you don't blow fuses frequently, since magnets are inductive loads. So if we go back to my "example" of a half-amp load per magnet, then you'd be able to connect 10 magnets per fuse. That's a lot of "fussing" when one re-wires an organ, due to having to "break-out" the returns to several different fuses when heretofore they had been only one mundo-huge wire! This is one of the reasons it's such a good idea to just "solid state" the thing and be done with it when it's possible, since the commercially-built systems already take the fusing requirements into account through engineering and design. Peterson's systems are especially good about this and use those blade-type automotive fuses I'd suggested in an earlier post! Faithfully, "Arp in the Corn Patch" Richard Schneider SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Organbuilders 41-43 Johnston St. P. O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX email@example.com Business EMAIL firstname.lastname@example.org Personal EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com Web Page URL
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Introduction From: "Paul Arndt" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:48:40 -0800 Bob Loesch wrote: > At 06:27 PM 01/15/2000 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi! My name is Paul Arndt. > > [murmurred responses; "Hi, Paul"...] > > >Just this past fall, I finally found a Theatre Pipe organ for myself. = It > >is a Wicks 2/6. > > Congratulations! You've now joined the ranks of the terminally = insane... ;-) Yes, I think I have. It is strange that almost all my life I have dreamed = of having a theatre pipe organ of my own. Reality is starting to strike. = Trying to figure out where to put it is probably the main problem right now. My wife = has wanted a new home for years... now it looks like I am too... organ capable = of course. I am, however, determined to do it right no matter how long it = takes and have to rebuild as money becomes available. > > > >The organ also has several > >Robert-Morton pieces, so it is already a hybrid. > > Possibly not, Paul. You might not be aware, but Wicks often built > instruments under the Morton nameplate when the Van Nuys factory got = behind > in their orders. I own a Morton/Wicks Style 39 pit organ. The only > difference was that the Morton nameplate listed "factories in Van Nuys, > Cal. and Highland, Ill." > Actually this is officially a Wicks Organ and shows up on the Wicks = records. Allen Moe who works for Wicks was able to send me the original specs for = the organ. I am going to try to keep it close to the original specs, but I = would like to add a string celeste and possibly an orchestral oboe. I have always = love an organ oboe stop. I also need to find a trumpet rank as I have not been = able to find one amongst the pipework. The one thing that is strange is there is a = RM 32-note 16' pedal Bourdon chest which, Ii might add, is huge (9' x 3'). = There is also a 4 or 5 rank RM unit chest which is behind some other pipework (the = 16' Diaphone resonators) with the bottom facing out so I cannot get a good = look at it. Also, the 12-note 16' Diaphone offset is RM. The original two 3-rank = Wicks chests are also there. Not sure if they are direct electric, but the = console has stop action magnets for most of the stops but not all so I will probably = replace them with Syndynes since I want all stop actions to be controllable = electrically. Some of the stops currently do not even have electrical contacts... just = screw holes where they once were -- don't have a clue why, but... Also the = second touch stops are on the main rail between the solo and accompaniment stops. I = might try to move them to the back rail as RM and Wurlitzer did so I can add a few = more stops on the main rail for unification/additional ranks. The engraving on = the traps tablets has been removed so I have a line of Mottled Yellow "blank" = stop tablets. I will probably install an Artisan solid state relay to control = the organ. I have heard good things about them and they are only about 300 = miles away in Seattle which is somewhat convenient. I currently know a person who is installing one as I speak. > > Best of luck with your new 'toy'! Thanks, I will need it plus some list handholding as there are no real = organ experts in the area. I am in the process of making up my first order for = leather and a hot glue pot, so I can get started. > > > Regards, > > Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA > > http://www.jps.net/rrloesch Paul
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Introduction From: "VEAGUE" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:56:41 -0500 Glue pots...I found a double boiler- one pan fits inside another and heats on the stove. Transfer pan to a hot plate in your work area. Put water in bigger bottom pan, put glue crystals in smaller pan, add = water, put small pan in big pan. Test for readiness. The double boiler I found at Goodwill. Hot plate too. Rick