DIYAPASON-L Digest #16 - Monday, January 24, 2000
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Hide Glue.
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Power Supply Continuation
  by "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@ameritech.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Power Supply Continuation
  by "Bernard C. Nordmann" <bcnordmann@cdmnet.com>
Spiral Duct for ductwork?
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Power Supply Continuation
  by "Jon" <sparky@chesco.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Power Supply Continuation
  by "Jon" <sparky@chesco.com>
Re: Hide Glue.
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Spiral Duct for ductwork?
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork? X-posted
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Power Supply Continuation
  by <DEMPAR1@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Power Supply Continuation
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Hide Glue.
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: Franklin's Liquid Hide Glue.
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Hide Glue.
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Hide Glue. From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:23:05 EST   I was told buy the local organ man, now not so local, start at 50/50 in = the pot then it depends on what your are gluing. For small pouches I still = think fish glue is far easier than the hot stuff. No heating kneaded have not = tried on regulator releathering only repair's.   Dennis (Dizzzzzyyyyyy)  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Power Supply Continuation From: "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@ameritech.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:27:09 -0600   Hi Jon et all,   The primary purpose of the bleeder resistor (shunt resistor) was for safety. It provides a path for the filter caps to discharge with no load. In the real world the caps would discharge through the load (in this case the organ). It is probably not that critical in a low = voltage supply, but in the higher voltage power supplies that were used in vacuum tube supplies (several hundred volts in most cases) it was a safety factor to prevent shocking the service person. (Vaccuum Tube..watisit??) The shunt resistor is also supposed to help voltage regulation by providing a minimum load on the supply.   Jon, I can see your really having fun with this and suspect in addition to be an organ nut...your a techno-geek (no offense intended) As far as you wind measurement the simplest and cheapest method is to get two glass tubes and a short length of rubber hose to join them together or if you can get it a U-shaped glass tube with the legs at least 20" long. Put some water in the tube and with another length of hose on one end of the top of the tubing to the wind source it will cause the water to displace...then you can measure the difference between the water columns. There are commercial gauges and meters available,,,but there aren't any more accurate than a water gauge...at least in my opinion and I like them.   jch -    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Power Supply Continuation From: "Bernard C. Nordmann" <bcnordmann@cdmnet.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:22:19 -0600   At 09:27 AM 1/24/00 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Jon et all, > >The primary purpose of the bleeder resistor (shunt resistor) was >for safety. It provides a path for the filter caps to discharge with >no load.   What Jon Habermas says is true but, as I remember, not all. The bleeder = on a saturable reactor regulator prevents some sort of runaway if the load current falls below a certain value.   - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bernie Nordmann, St. Louis, MO -- Owner of a 3/13 Wurlitzer/Barton/Kimball/Dennison/whatever -- Registered Piano Technician, Piano Technicians Guild -- Full time computer consultant - Nordmann Consulting, Inc. -- Amateur radio operator, call sign KV0W -- Husband, father - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -    
(back) Subject: Spiral Duct for ductwork? From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:37:07 -0500   Hello friends,   I posted this earlier on pipeorg-l but was since made aware of this new list so am posting it here also. Some of you probably know me but when I get a little time I'll do a little intro. for those that may not....   >While visiting my local sheet metal shop for ductwork to connect my >Spencer, I was shown something called Spiral Duct. I'm just wondering if >anyone out there has used this for an organ and has any reason not to use >it. It comes in up to 10' lengths and is rated for up to 10" S.P. W.G., = at >least twice what I would be running. It is smooth inside and the main >advantage I see to using it is that the only existing seams would be = where >the elbows connect to the pipe. The elbows are made of two halves and >welded together. The spiral on the pipe is machine crimped for air >tightness. The disadvantage is that mainly the fittings cost quite a bit >more than the regular metal duct fittings. I only need maybe 2 elbows and >he has some leftover pipe from another job I could get cheaply so the = cost >difference is minimal in my case. I have a 10' run from the basement to >the second floor so the continious pipe would be nice.   I've never heard this pipe mentioned in previous discussions of ductwork = so I'm hesitant to use it. I have access to some soldering equipment and my dealer can get "Hard = Cast" but it is expensive. So regular ductwork is still an option.   As a side issue, has anyone at least for a residence organ, ever used Aluminim tape to seal metal ductwork? This stuff has a backer you peal off and is very sticky.   Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks, Eric        
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Power Supply Continuation From: "Jon" <sparky@chesco.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:02:21 -0500   >The primary purpose of the bleeder resistor (shunt resistor) was >for safety. It provides a path for the filter caps to discharge with >no load. In the real world the caps would discharge through the load >(in this case the organ). It is probably not that critical in a low = voltage >supply, but in the higher voltage power supplies that were used in >vacuum tube supplies (several hundred volts in most cases) it >was a safety factor to prevent shocking the service person. >(Vaccuum Tube..watisit??) The shunt resistor is also supposed to >help voltage regulation by providing a minimum load on the supply.   Yea but my regulator does that (i bilt it into the cirkit). Wouldn't the puny cap discharge thru the selenium rectifier and thus the coils,,, or = the led lights on the organ.... or.........?? I def. see the point with HV = vac tubes. Haven't worked with them since I got poked a couple months ago. Ouch!   >Jon, I can see your really having fun with this and suspect in addition >to be an organ nut...your a techno-geek (no offense intended) >As far as you wind measurement the simplest and cheapest method >is to get two glass tubes and a short length of rubber hose to join >them together or if you can get it a U-shaped glass tube with the >legs at least 20" long. Put some water in the tube and with another >length of hose on one end of the top of the tubing to the wind source >it will cause the water to displace...then you can measure the >difference between the water columns. There are commercial >gauges and meters available,,,but there aren't any more accurate >than a water gauge...at least in my opinion and I like them.   Whoops... u r right i m a techie-geek :-) But I m reffering to an LCD number display to install in the console, so I know the pressure in the chests while i'm playing.... just a geeky thing :-)   jon      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Power Supply Continuation From: "Jon" <sparky@chesco.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:06:29 -0500   >At 09:27 AM 1/24/00 -0600, you wrote: >>Hi Jon et all, >> >>The primary purpose of the bleeder resistor (shunt resistor) was >>for safety. It provides a path for the filter caps to discharge with >>no load. > >What Jon Habermas says is true but, as I remember, not all. The bleeder = on >a saturable reactor regulator prevents some sort of runaway if the load >current falls below a certain value.   Garsh I didn't even think of that since i designed the shunt into my = reg... what I believe you are reffering to is the tendency of inductive-choke (methinks thats the right name) filters to have runaway voltages. This happens with bridge rectifiers as well if they go strait into an inductor and then caps... I have learned the hard way... (small amplifier amplifies no more)   jon        
(back) Subject: Re: Hide Glue. From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:16:26 EST   Dear Bruce:   Thank you for rejecting all of the future problems caused by the white = casein based glues. For rebuilds there is only one glue to trust, hot hide glue. = Whole organs have been taken to the dumps because the wrong glues were = used on them.   > Can anyone give me some directions for mixing and cooking hide glue.   Hide glue is already cooked so it should never be taken over 180 degrees Fahrenheit and the normal electric hot glue pot runs about 135-140 degree = F.   > I have used hide glue in the past, but have never had to do the initial preparation.   For most jobs a smaller batch will do just fine. Take an empty Kraft Marshmallow Cream bottle and put 2 inches of glue flakes into the bottle. =   Over the dry glue flakes pour in room temperature distilled water until = the flakes are just covered a bit but with some still showing above the = surface. Put on the screw cover and let stand overnight......... The next day = with water heated already in the electric glue pot or in a double broiler on = the stove, put the Kraft jar into the water for heating. A cooking = thermometer will let you know when the glue is at working temperature.   After you use the glue, the jar may be cleaned with a rag having hot = water, the top replaced then the jar goes into the refrigerator for storage until =   you need it again. It will keep for months in the fridge. To get it = quickly up to temperature the jar may be microwaved on low once the lid is removed = (I leave the lid on which is OK as long as it is loose and not touching any other metal inside). A touch of water over the surface is good and can be =   mixed in when the glue has softened. > I currently have a supply of hide glue (flakes/granules) from Organ = Supply > Industries, but there is no data on gram strength or mixing ratios = given.   I guess it is understood that only pros having done this for years would = be using the glue and no instructions would be needed. > I ahave checked the diyapason resources section and the links from = there, > but the mix ratios seem to vary widely, with some using simple 50/50 by > volume, and others using other ratios, and others using weights. Just cover the flakes slightly on initial preparation. You will = constantly have to add water (I prefer distilled) as time goes by because the glue = will lose water by evaporation. You can slow this by having any old flat = object to lay across the mouth of the jar when you are not using the glue.   > I followed an interesting thread about this on the theatre organ list = some > time back and thought I had saved the information, but when I went = looking > for it I could not find it. I am also interested in methods which = reheat > the glue in a microwave, as I currently do not have access to a = glue-pot.   A double broiler will work well with water in the top section too. The working temperature of the glue is not critical but above 140 degrees F = the glue "skins over" quickly and will have to be sprayed with a quick shot of =   water from a spray bottle then mixed again. Using a microwave alone = without a water jacket of some type will mean that you will be constantly having = to test temperature then putting the glue back into the microwave on a = regular basis. A water jacket will retain heat and allow you more working time between microwave breaks! > Thanks in advance. > David Bruce >>   Al Sefl Editor of "TheGluePot" the ATOS Pipe Organ Owners Group = newsletter...........   p.s.: For glue pots many have successfully used old crock pots, baby = bottle heater, etc., found at Salvation Army for only a few dollars.   p.p.s.: Fish glues are used at room temperature on the new slick = pnuematic leathers and this is OK as they dry just like the hot glues to where they = can be sanded off for rebuilds.  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Spiral Duct for ductwork? From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:20:15 EST   Eric-- I have been using the backed aluminum tape for about 10 years now,,,with = no problems on wind lines,,,and no leaks either :-) Regards, ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork? X-posted From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:22:57 EST   > Hello friends, > Spiral Duct. It comes in up to 10' lengths and is rated for up to 10" = S.P. W.G., at > least twice what I would be running. > As a side issue, has anyone at least for a residence organ, ever used > Aluminim tape to seal metal ductwork? This stuff has a backer you peal = off > and is very sticky. > Any and all advice is appreciated. > Thanks, Eric >>   Hi Eric:   I have seen this HVAC (heating, ventilation, air-conditioning) spiral windline used on a theatre organ installation running about 22"WP with no =   problems. It was sealed with space-age tape that Godzilla couldn't break. = The special tape was developed just for such HVAC applications and does = not look like the higher wind pressures of an organ cause any problems with = it. I do not know if this is the same tape you were describing. However, for good organ building craftsmanship, the use of such tape should not extend beyond the windline from the blower. I have had to remove duct tape from = all kinds of organ components and have always been lucky the churches were = empty when venting my feelings about these tapes.   Al Sefl  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Power Supply Continuation From: <DEMPAR1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:55:21 EST   Does anyone have a wiring diagram for an orgalectra power supply? I would like to get a diagram, even if it is only a sketch that I can reproduce in =   autocad. Object of this exercise is to make a good quality printable = diagram in autocad that we can place on the SMGC chapter web site so that anyone = who needs it in the future can just download a copy from our site. I would = also welcome other diagrams that would be of interest to organ repair and renovation interests.  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Power Supply Continuation From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:26:10 -0600   >Does anyone have a wiring diagram for an orgalectra power supply? I would >like to get a diagram, even if it is only a sketch that I can reproduce = in >autocad. Object of this exercise is to make a good quality printable = diagram >in autocad that we can place on the SMGC chapter web site so that anyone = who >needs it in the future can just download a copy from our site. I would = also >welcome other diagrams that would be of interest to organ repair and >renovation interests.     I don't know if you are aware of it but I have been also trying to build a "resources" site on this list's web site and would welcome any information that could be of use to us amateur builders. I don't care if they are the actual files or links to resources that already exist. Do check it out, there are some links to articles about Hide Glue and some Blower spreadsheets there already.   David List Owner - DIYAPASON-L    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Hide Glue. From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:33:20 -0600   At 1/24/00 04:16 PM, Al wrote: <snip> >I guess it is understood that only pros having done this for years would = be >using the glue and no instructions would be needed. <snip>   Actually, I believe Organ Supply Industries does have an "instruction sheet" available for their granulated hide glue -- you simply have to ask for a copy when ordering.   Really and truly, I'd guess they probably really *do* sell more of it to "pros having done this for years" (but that's just my guess!!).   They *are* really nice people at OSI, and also exceedingly helpful. I've NEVER been less-than-satisfied with their service. <snip again> >p.p.s.: Fish glues are used at room temperature on the new slick = pnuematic >leathers and this is OK as they dry just like the hot glues to where they = can >be sanded off for rebuilds. <snip>   One other choice I've not seen mentioned yet is "Franklin Liquid Hide Glue". It is essentially like hot hide glue, but has been formulated to remain in a liquid state in the bottle at room temperature. It can be thinned with a few drops of water if needed, and removes just as easily as hot hide glue. It 'cures' in much the same fashion as fish glue, though slightly faster. It comes in a brown bottle, and is available everywhere. =     I have used all three types of glue, on various materials, and tend to prefer the Franklin for small jobs and repairs -- the hot glue pot for bigger tasks. That's just *my* preference...<g>   Thanks, everyone, for your contributions to this thread -- it has been an interesting one. I've already picked up a few new "hints" to try out the next time I fire up the 'ol glue pot...!   Tim        
(back) Subject: Re: Franklin's Liquid Hide Glue. From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:14:39 EST   > I have used all three types of glue, on various materials, and tend to > prefer the Franklin for small jobs and repairs -- the hot glue pot for > bigger tasks. That's just *my* preference...<g> > next time I fire up the 'ol glue pot...! > Tim >>   Hello Tim:   Like you I use Franklin's when out in the field and on some jobs around = the shop but I always keep in mind that the mixture is not as strong as full strength hot glue. e.g.: I would not use Franklin's on reservoir hinges. This is because Franklin's has added three things to the basic hide glue = to make it into their liquid formula, 1) glycerine, 2) a preservative agent = to stop mold and bacteria, & 3) water. It has a definite shelf life that = must be observed within reason and cannot be frozen without going bad.   Lucky for me almost all of my church contracts have microwave ovens in = their office or kitchen areas. I also carry small jars of regular hot glue that = on warm summer days I keep in my lunch box next to the Blue Ice. Hot glue in = a minute!   Best to you,   Al Sefl  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Hide Glue. From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:56:36 -0500   I too have enjoyed the tips on hide gluing. Another tip--for removing leather glued with hide glue, I keep rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle. Spray and soak the leather well. This will soak in and loosen the glue. = Peel some leather off, spray some more- let it soak, peel off more.   The alcohol doesn't stain or warp wood like water will. Careful around = glued wood joints tho.   Let dry, and sand clean to releather.   Rick