DIYAPASON-L Digest #19 - Thursday, January 27, 2000
 
new member
  by <KmballMan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork?
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Fun with resonators
  by "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs] Making my own chest
  by "Bart Kleineweber" <prinzipal8@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: [Residence Organs] Making my own chest
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork?
  by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@ptw.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]Making my own chest
  by "Bart Kleineweber" <prinzipal8@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork?
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@home.com>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Reference for Pipes
  by "John Burns" <burnsjr@prodigy.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Fun with resonators
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork?
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Burning holes (was making own chests)
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Burning holes (was making own chests)
  by "Donald H Peterson" <dpete1@jcpenney.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: [Residence Organs] Making my own chest
  by <RDoer30176@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: [Residence Organs] Making my own chest
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Burning holes (was making own chests)
  by "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com>
Suitability of surplus blowers
  by "Dave McClellan" <drmc@speedfactory.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Countersinks and other tools
  by "Randy Newman" <rnewman@dilligaff.rutgers.edu>
Step down regulators
  by "Kelvin Smith" <KelvinSmith@untraveledroad.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Burning holes (was making own chests)
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
resonators
  by "John L. Adams" <jadams@scioto.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Burning holes (was making own chests)
  by "Louis Huivenaar" <louis.huivenaar@wxs.nl>
[Fwd: Mitering Pipes]
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Suitability of surplus blowers
  by <RDoer30176@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Suitability of surplus blowers
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Step down regulators
  by <RDoer30176@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Step down regulators
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Fun with resonators
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Suitability of surplus blowers
  by <RDoer30176@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Step down regulators
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Step down regulators
  by <RDoer30176@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Step down regulators
  by <RDoer30176@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: new member From: <KmballMan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:55:43 EST   Hi list members   I have just joined the list and am installing the 1927 Kimball 3/8 theatre =   organ from the Lansdowne theatre, lansdowne Pa. in my home. I am in = Jackson Mississippi.   My first problem is that I have 6 or so 8' string and celeste pipes that = are too tall for my shambers and need to be mitred. Do any of you folks know = of someone within reasonable distance that I can have do this delicate work   Thanks   John Durgan- Jackson Mississippi  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork? From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:49:08 -0500   Thanks for the information, Al and others. After the windline from the blower I'll use PVC for the smaller lines and more traditional methods for the larger short lines. BTW I've found that Fernco couplers work very nicely to connect PVC to the windchest flanges. It makes it very easy to disconnect the chests as needed. I'm using the thinner sewer and drain = pipe rather than Sched. 40, and the Fernco couplers are just slightly larger, = so when they're loosened they slide easily.   Also after talking to my sheet metal dealer again he told me he could sell me small quantities of Hard Cast as needed. So I may end up using this rather than Alum. tape. I still have to wonder if this is overkill though for a residence organ.   If anyone is interested, following is a Thomas Register web sight for Spiral duct. I believe this only works if your registered with TR but I'm not sure. I know to access company info through them I had to register first.   http://www2.thomasregister.com/ss/.60489071/catfrm.cgi?&index=3DProduct&sea= rch=3Dduc t&seq=3D1&pn=3D0008570&state=3D&pdm=3D&footer=3DCatalog   Eric   >Hi Eric: > >I have seen this HVAC (heating, ventilation, air-conditioning) spiral >windline used on a theatre organ installation running about 22"WP with = no >problems. It was sealed with space-age tape that Godzilla couldn't = break. >The special tape was developed just for such HVAC applications and does = not >look like the higher wind pressures of an organ cause any problems with = it. >I do not know if this is the same tape you were describing. However, for >good organ building craftsmanship, the use of such tape should not extend >beyond the windline from the blower. I have had to remove duct tape from = all >kinds of organ components and have always been lucky the churches were = empty >when venting my feelings about these tapes. > >Al Sefl      
(back) Subject: Fun with resonators From: "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:05:38 -0500   Some months (or years?) ago I purchased a set of 16' Trumpet "bottom = ends", the assembly consisting of the block, shallot, tongue, tuning wire, and boot, from a set of pipes built by Organ Supply in the 1970s. At some point, the resonators got destroyed and so these parts were orphans. They =   appeared to have been voiced on about 4" pressure and were fitted with sockets (ferrules) for fairly large-scaled resonators, it seemed.   Just recently I took delivery on a set of Austin 16' Trumpet resonators, the remains of a 73-note Trumpet from the 1920s or so that had been part = of a residence organ-in-progress. When the owner/builder died, his widow decided to remodel the organ chamber into living space, and as a result = the organ was thrown out, literally. Most of its components were cut up and tossed into a dumpster, but the resonators for the Trumpet's bottom octave =   survived.   The pipes are mitered to fit under a low ceiling. CCC goes up about 4', then down about 3', then up about 5', and then horizontally about 4'. A few of the matching bottom ends also got salvaged, and they are clearly shorter than the OSI bottom ends; CCC complete might have stood just about =   7' tall, and the resonator is about 7" in diameter at the top. The bottom =   8 pipes are mitered as mentioned and the top 4 are just "knuckled".   My chamber is only 7' 1" tall and so there really isn't room to stand = these pipes up. However, it does appear that they can lay down on their sides. As an experiment, I lowered the CCC resonator into the chamber and =   fitted it to the CCC bottom-end, using some thin plastic foam sheeting as = a temporary gasket to make up for the difference in diameter between the socket and the resonator tip.   Firing up the little Ventus blower and putting sufficient bar-bell weights =   (!) onto the little Moller reservoir to give about 4" pressure, I then played the pipe via a little 6-note test chest. I rough tuned it, using a =   Diyapason middle C pipe, and was pleased to note that the effect was quite =   dramatic down in the chamber. Up in the dining room, the sound was much attenuated by the small tone chutes, but it was still "impressive" (a = good, generic term). While I could only guess about the proper position of the resonator within the socket (and the resulting effective length of the resonator), it was clear that the sound became "tighter" as the pitch approached CCC. Far off that pitch, the sound was full of rattles and nastiness, almost all of which went away as the pitch became correct. = That leads me to believe that the tongue and the resonator were making a pretty =   good acoustic match at CCC pitch.   It seems that all 12 pipes can be arranged horizontally, occupying a floor =   area about 10" by 90" with an "ell" about 10" by 48", including some type of bass chest that stands on end. Whether or not the tonal results will = be worth the consumption of that much chamber space is still an open question. My original thoughts had been to make a set of wooden (half-length? Haskelled? who knows?) resonators or to experiment with something like some orphaned Moller French Horn resonators that a friend had suggested. Those alternatives would consume much less chamber space but their effect might well be disappointing compare to these full-length resonators.   The few salvaged Austin bottom-ends look well-made, with nice brass = wedges, but the tongues are moderately stiff, suggesting a pressure of 7" or so.   Larry Chace  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Making my own chest From: "Bart Kleineweber" <prinzipal8@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:34:20 CST   Hi fellow listers:   I'm almost done making my own chest that will play a 2' prinzipal. I thought some of you might like to know how I did it. I needed a chest = that would play that rank that would fit in a very small space, and there are = no multiple rank chests in the organ. I opted for electro-mechanical action = as there are no channels involved and it is much easier and cheaper to build. = It measures 1 foot by 3 feet. I went to Home Depot and purchased oak = stair treads that are 1-1/4" thick and 1 X 3 feet. These were used for the top and bottom. Matching oak stair risers make up the sides. This made for a minimum of cutting, as I have nothing but hand saws. Then I ordered = Reisner 601 magnets from OSI, 12 were 3/4 valves and the remaining were 5/8 = valves, all 90 ohms and some 64 contact cable. Counter sinks and neoprene gasket came from Tracker Tool Supply.   To lay out the pipes so that they would all fit in even rows, I turned the =   bottom two octaves upside down on a piece of paper and traced their diameters. Then I cut out the circles of paper and laid them out on the bottom of the toeboard to see how many would fit in each row. The smaller = 3 octaves are smaller than a magnet, so I just used the magnets to allow space for these pipes. Once I marked the center of where each hole would go, I then drilled holes, the top part of the hole bigger than the hole in the toe of the pipe. I then made the inside of = the holes a little bigger with bigger drill bits. Next I counter sinked the = top of the holes using the set of counter sinks, and trying each pipe to see = if the counter sink was the right size for the pipe toe. No burning = required, nothing like having the right tool for the job!   Tracing a magnet in its closed position on a piece of paper and cutting = out the trace allowed me to position the magnet with the valve centered over each hole and mark the positions of the bracket holes to be drilled. In very short order the magnets were all mounted.   Next I laid a bare piece of 14 gauge solid wire along the side of the = chest to use as a common. Using 26 AWG PVC hook up wire, I soldered short wires =   to the common post of the magnet to this 14 gauge solid wire. Then, using =   the TELCO code outlined in a previous post to this list, I soldered the 64 =   contact cable to the other post of each magnet. Then I laced the cable neatly and laid it over the common, and used insulated staples to mount = them both to the toe board.   I cut a hole with an agressor in the bottom of the chest to receive a 2" piece of PVC for the windline. I also cut a hole in one of the side = boards to receive the cable and common.   Now all I have left to do is glue the bottom and side boards together, = place the adhesive backed neoprene gasket in place and screw the toe board in place. And of course build a rack to hold the pipes in place.   Hope this wasn't too long and boring.   Bart Kleineweber Chicago, IL prinzipal8@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: [Residence Organs] Making my own chest From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:10:52 -0500   Bart wrote:     >and trying each pipe to see if >the counter sink was the right size for the pipe toe. No burning = required, >nothing like having the right tool for the job!   As I will probably be making my own chest for a Mixture III I'm wondering about the burned countersunk holes normally seen in chests. Reading a much earlier post on pipeorg-l I was left with the impression that the toe hole is burned in on purpose, to keep the wood from reacting with the lead in the pipe toe. Following is a quote from a posting Nelson Denton wrote on making EM chests. The reason for this was on another posting though as I didn't see the reason listed in his article.   ^^^^ a burning bit is used here - this is a metal or stone countersink = that has no flutes in it and it is rammed into the wood under the heavy = pressure of a drill press at high speed. The heat and friction compresses and literally burns the wood away leaving that characteristic black chest toe hole. this sort of work must be done "carefully" outdoors as the puffs of tremendous smoke and (possible fire!!!! ) will lure Boy Scouts and Indians from hundreds of miles away. ( a friend once warned me to be carefull what I "said" (puffed) while drilling a 4 rank mixture -apparently in Mohawk it was a not too flattering soliloquy about the chief's wife :-)) )     If I had my choice I'd just as soon not have to burn the holes either. = I've seen a couple chests where the toe holes were just a stepped hole. I think this was more for wood pipes though.   Eric      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork? From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@ptw.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:13:29 -0800   Eric Sagmuller wrote:   > Thanks for the information, Al and others. After the windline from the > blower I'll use PVC for the smaller lines and more traditional methods = for > the larger short lines. BTW I've found that Fernco couplers work very > nicely to connect PVC to the windchest flanges. ... > If anyone is interested, following is a Thomas Register web sight for > Spiral duct. ...   Okay, I registered but doing a search on "spiral duct" gave me zilch. = Searching on "Duct" gave me 81categories. How did you find "spiral duct?" I tried the link you gave, = but it wrapped to two lines and I can't get them to match so as to get me to that web page. I = also tried a search on "fernco couplers" with zero hits. What are they?   Mac Hayes          
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs]Making my own chest From: "Bart Kleineweber" <prinzipal8@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:47:24 CST   Hi Eric and list: Bob Roche at Tracker Tool Supply told me that burning is no longer necessary. The unburned wood does not react with the lead or any other = pipe materials, and even if it did, you're going to shellac the hole when you shellac the top of the toe board anyway. Shellac does not react with lead =   either.   Eric Wrote: >As I will probably be making my own chest for a Mixture III I'm wondering >about the burned countersunk holes normally seen in chests. Reading a = much >earlier post on pipeorg-l I was left with the impression that the toe = hole >is burned in on purpose, to keep the wood from reacting with the lead in >the pipe toe. (snip) >If I had my choice I'd just as soon not have to burn the holes either. = I've >seen a couple chests where the toe holes were just a stepped hole. I = think >this was more for wood pipes though. > Most of the wood pipes I have seen except for the very large ones have a lead toe attached to the bottom of the cylindrical foot. This allows for voicing. The very large ones had a voicing valve in the foot. Again, the =   lead in the toe probably won't react to the wood or to the shellac.   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork? From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@home.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:43:24 -0600   Mac Hayes wrote:   > Okay, I registered but doing a search on "spiral duct" gave me zilch. > Searching on "Duct" gave me 81 categories. How did you find "spiral > duct?" I tried the link you gave, but it wrapped to two lines and > I can't get them to match so as to get me to that web page. I also > tried a search on "fernco couplers" with zero hits. What are they? > > Mac Hayes   Alternative suggestion: Since my shop is in the heart of a zone flooded with construction companies, we back up to one of these HVAC tin-benders. They have supplies of various sizes of spiral duct laying out, ready for delivery to contractors. This stuff varies in size from 6 to 9 inches up to 2 or 3 feet in diameter. These guys are manufacturers; not resellers.   Try visiting your friendly neighborhood HVAC business site and they will be pleased to show the stuff to you.   Since you are not too far from areas which may do some irrigation farming, look for PVC suppliers while you are out. I know a place in Lubbock, TX where they regularly ship PVC for irrigation up to 12-inch diameters. The people supplying irrigation materials regularly use pipe much larger than plumbers.   F. Richard Burt effarbee@home.com          
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Reference for Pipes From: "John Burns" <burnsjr@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:53:46 -0500   Thanks to everyone for those references. Looks like some of those are available on the OHS website catalogue. I'll be ordering.   John    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Fun with resonators From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:12:19 -0500   Larry,   Speaking of fun, you may have seen a much earlier post by me on one of the other lists. We were "given" some Robert Morton pipe work including a 16' ft Tuba. Our problem was just the opposite. After we hauled the whole mess home we = found that some one had helped themselves to the blocks and reeds of the 16'. = So we are stuck with a set of resonators only. Which, at this point in time, we are just about ready to give away. Realistically though, if someone can come up with the missing parts, or even have them made by Trivo, it'd be a cheap way to obtain a potent 16' Tuba!   John V          
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Spiral Duct for ductwork? From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:17:54 -0500   The link I gave I received from Jack Hardman, I think on the pipeorg-l = list but he may be on this one too. Clicking on the link worked for me.   Fernco couplers are the black flexible couplers that are sold at a = plumbing or building center used to connect sewer pipe, etc. in situations were things don't line up quite right. We have the Fernco brand here but I have seen other brands.   Here's the link again just in case something got lost last time.   http://www2.thomasregister.com/ss/.60489071/catfrm.cgi?&index=3DProduct&sea= rch=3Dduc t&seq=3D1&pn=3D0008570&state=3D&pdm=3D&footer=3DCatalog   I just tried clicking on the above and it worked. I've noticed that sometimes access is very slow with Thomas Reg.   Eric       >Eric Sagmuller wrote: > >> Thanks for the information, Al and others. After the windline from the >> blower I'll use PVC for the smaller lines and more traditional methods = for >> the larger short lines. BTW I've found that Fernco couplers work very >> nicely to connect PVC to the windchest flanges. ... >> If anyone is interested, following is a Thomas Register web sight for >> Spiral duct. ... > >Okay, I registered but doing a search on "spiral duct" gave me zilch. >Searching on "Duct" gave me >81categories. How did you find "spiral duct?" I tried the link you = gave, >but it wrapped to two >lines and I can't get them to match so as to get me to that web page. I >also tried a search on >"fernco couplers" with zero hits. What are they? > >Mac Hayes > > > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Burning holes (was making own chests) From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:26:22 -0500   Bart wrote:   >Most of the wood pipes I have seen except for the very large ones have a >lead toe attached to the bottom of the cylindrical foot. This allows for >voicing.   You're right. Here's an example of lead against wood and there is no problem with interaction here. Perhaps others on the list can enlighten us to why burned holes ?      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Burning holes (was making own chests) From: "Donald H Peterson" <dpete1@jcpenney.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:27:32 -0600   As I understood it many years ago, the reason was to make a smoother hole = and thus a better seal between the chest and the pipe toe.   Don   Eric Sagmuller wrote:   > Bart wrote: > > >Most of the wood pipes I have seen except for the very large ones have = a > >lead toe attached to the bottom of the cylindrical foot. This allows = for > >voicing. > > You're right. Here's an example of lead against wood and there is no > problem with interaction here. Perhaps others on the list can enlighten = us > to why burned holes ? > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: [Residence Organs] Making my own chest From: <RDoer30176@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:47:18 EST   In a message dated 00-01-27 11:34:54 EST, you write:     > the counter sink was the right size for the pipe toe. No burning required, Hi Bart and List   Ask the experts, I believe the purpose for burning the holes had to do = with the acid in Oak wood.   Russ  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: [Residence Organs] Making my own chest From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:05:19 -0500   Russ wrote:   >Ask the experts, I believe the purpose for burning the holes had to do = with >the acid in Oak wood.   Remembering back I think that's basically what I heard stated. The acid in Oak wood. All the chests I have I believe are made of either (sugar) pine or poplar.      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Burning holes (was making own chests) From: "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:21:23 -0500   I just made a quick (but superficial) check of my e-mail archive from PIPORG-L when there was lots of discussion about chest building, toe hole burning, and the like. Several professional builders offered comments.   The summary is that everyone seems to do different things. Some builders burned the countersinked holes with heated irons. Some used friction, by spinning a stone or steel cone in a high-speed drill press and pressing into the already countersunk holes. Others didn't pre-countersink before burning. Some burned *pine* to avoid problems with "pine stuff" interacting with the pipe toes. Some did not burn poplar because it = didn't contain thos nasty chemicals. Some burned *oak* to avoid the problems, also claiming that *pine* would not cause the problems. Others claimed = the burning was done to smooth out the countersunk holes.   You get the idea.   I've used the "spinning stone" method, and it works quite well except that =   most small conical grinding stones have a 90-degree angle but most countersinks have an 84-degree angle (I think those are the correct numbers). As a result, the stone will tend to re-form the countersink slightly. It probably doesn't matter.   Oh, I forgot -- some folks shellac first, and then use spnning stones or steel to burnish the shellaced countersunk holes. Some don't finish the toe holes at all. Some shellac the bottoms of the toe boards (where the valves, of whatever type, hit), some *lacquer* the bottoms (to avoid stickiness of shellac), and others don't finish the bottoms at all (to avoid the stickiness of whatever finish).   Perhaps (perhaps) more important is to make sure that the borings are nice =   and smooth (some folks use narrow heated burning irons for that!) and that =   the edges of the holes where the valves hit are very gently rounded over = so as to allow a nice smooth airflow into the hole leading up to the pipe toe. The AIO's video tape "Electric Chests -- Heroes or Heathens" gives Chuck Kegg's view on that topic. He uses a 1/16" round-over bit in a dedicated router to smooth the edges; he said that sandpaper on a finger will also work but is less of a "production" method. He also makes the valve hole (if you will) 1/4" smaller than the valve so that there is a 1/8" wide "donut" to serve as a valve seat. That tends to increase the effective pressure against the valve, helping it to stay closed and to not =   bounce.   Another important consideration is the gasketing -- neoprene is offered by =   several vendors but there has been some experience in the theatre organ world, at least, showing that it will tend to relax and not provide as = good a seal as the old-fashioned packing leather. This is especially important =   if you do *not* use compression springs on the screws; once the wood = starts to shrink, then only the built-in expansion tendencies of the packing material stands between you and wind leaks! OSI sells compresion springs, =   and you also need a flat washer against the wood and another under the screw head (a conical washer for flat-headed screws). Tighten the screws such that the compression springs still have some "give", in case the wood =   expands before it shrinks.   When you layout the toe board, you can attach a pattern board or even the rack board and pilot-drill them both at once. That will tend to increase the probability that the pipes will stand straight up and will save much measuring and cursing when trying to make the rackboard.   The use of store-bought items such as stair treads is an interesting subject. Clearly, professional builders will not find that an attractive technique, but for home builders there might well be significant = advantages in such an approach. Just be sure to give everything a coat or two or three of shellac (white or orange, your choice) to make it look "organic"!   (By the way, there was a great deal of interesting discussion on PIPORG-L back in '93, '94', and '95 about pipe organ construction methods. Those items are present in the PIPORG-L archives, although it might be somewhat laborious to try to read them all. You can perform searches, though, and I'd recommend that very highly.)   Larry Chace  
(back) Subject: Suitability of surplus blowers From: "Dave McClellan" <drmc@speedfactory.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:21:04 -0500   A particular surplus blower was suggested as a solution to supply wind to tuned percussions. I have always been curious if the blowers commonly = found in surplus catalogs would be suitable for use with pipe organs. For example, Al Self has calculated that I need 1.42 hp at 6" static for my 9 rank residence instrument (actually 0.96hp, 650-750 cfm at 4" regulated - Al recommended some headroom for proper operation of the reservoir and trems).   I have seen blowers such as the following available in surplus catalogs. These are VERY CHEAP compared to organ blowers purchased at retail. But would they work? Are they too noisy? I have had no luck locating a suitable used blower that size (THAT WILL GO THRU A STANDARD 32" DOOR!)   500cfm @ 29"hg (FAN)SR150 Industrial blower made for use in SRS's 10KW transmitter using a = 4CX15,000, maintaining 500 cfm @ 29" of mercury back pressure. High speed impeller. 2875 rpm, 1.5 hp, 115/230 vac, 18 / 9 amps, 50/60 Hz, 1 phase. 5.5" inlet has airflow indicator. Outlet 4.5" diameter has diffuser chamber attached. 18" high. New, unused. $695 each.   Dave McClellan Atlanta      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Countersinks and other tools From: "Randy Newman" <rnewman@dilligaff.rutgers.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:45:18 -0500 (EST)       since we're on the topic of burning holes and countersinks, i'm curious what angle countersink is traditionally used for toeboards? harbor frieght tools sells a cheap chinese made 4 pc. set of countersinks for around $10 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/DisplayItem.taf?ItemNumber=3D39156). they come in either 60, 82, or 90 degree angles. which should i use?   harbor frieght also seems to have some other inexpensive tools that would come in handy for DIY organbuilders. I also got a nice set of small size punches for $3. good for punching small holes in gasketing, etc. and a 16pc set of forstner drill bits in a wooden box for $30. really not too bad for the price. obviously if you can afford it you'd be better off with higher quality stuff but for me considering i don't plan on using it very often it should work just fine. btw, i don't mean this as any type of advertisement, just passing the info along.   -randy newman      
(back) Subject: Step down regulators From: "Kelvin Smith" <KelvinSmith@untraveledroad.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:53:28 -0700   Hello,   I have a question about regulators. I am looking into replacing my blower and considering one with higher pressure output. The old one I assume had = a static of 7". I am looking at one with about 15" static. It was suggested that I use a "step down regulator" to get closer to the ~5" pressure for most of the windchests. I do not understand very well how a regulator = would be affected by higher input pressure. Except for the pedal, my whole organ has been fed through a main regulator that then fed regulators for each division. With the new blower I was hoping the main regulator could be set at 10" pressure (which is the pressure I want the tuba to be on) and then go down to 4 to 5 inches at the divisional windchests.   Here are some questions: 1. Is the pressure in a regulator affected by a) just the weight on the regulator or b) does the input pressure affect it also? In order to regulate accurately, it seems that the weight ought to be the only factor.   2. If the input pressure is higher, the regulator would tend to fill up more with the same amount of opening at the curtain valve. Am I right to think that I can adjust the curtain valve to compensate for the higher pressure (the objective to keep the spill valve from opening).   3. How much difference can you get between static and regulated pressure with one regulator?   I have another situation where I need to understand this. I have a blower to operate the pneumatics in my console combination action which puts out about 20" pressure (not much cfm of course). I doubt the solenoids will operate against that much pressure. I am anticipating the need for a regulator to reduce the pressure. I am trying to decide what would prevent me from getting whatever pressure I end up needing by building a small regulator with a small curtain valve so that not much air goes into it.   Thanks, Kelvin      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Burning holes (was making own chests) From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:30:47 -0800   At 01:26 PM 01/27/2000 -0500, Eric Sagmuller wrote: >Perhaps others on the list can enlighten us >to why burned holes ?     I was told that it was done to seal the pores of the wood against air = leakage.     Regards,   Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA   http://www.jps.net/rrloesch   Time flies whether you're having fun or not!   The best things in life aren't THINGS.  
(back) Subject: resonators From: "John L. Adams" <jadams@scioto.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:01:08 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0013_01BF68F0.7D06CA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   To John Vanderlee and anyone else with surplus resonators.=3D20   I got an estimate for a missing oboe resonator from two different organ = =3D suppliers. $300, for one only. Since I didn't pay anywhere near that =3D much for the entire rank, I declined but am still missing the resonator. = =3D So hang on to them. Has anyone out there ever made a resonator, =3D successfully?=3D20   John Adams   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0013_01BF68F0.7D06CA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3Diso-8859-1 =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3616.1301"' name=3D3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>To John Vanderlee and anyone else = =3D with surplus=3D20 resonators. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>I got an estimate for a missing = oboe =3D resonator=3D20 from two different organ suppliers. $300, for one only. Since I didn't =3D pay=3D20 anywhere near that much for the entire rank, I declined but am still =3D missing the=3D20 resonator. So hang on to them. Has anyone out there ever made a =3D resonator,=3D20 successfully? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>John =3D Adams</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0013_01BF68F0.7D06CA60--      
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Burning holes (was making own chests) From: "Louis Huivenaar" <louis.huivenaar@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:57:52 +0100   Hello List,   The only one reason for it is already known from the 14th century in Germany. The big Halberstadt Organ was made with the biggest organpipes in the = world in those days. 32' with a length over 10 mtr. Made from an alloy of thin and lead. Pipe weight 400 kg. Oak windchests. If you don't iron the wood the thin will under extremly cold situations damage. We call that in the Netherlands " Tinpest", Thindesease, a pipe will loos its constructure in the footh and fall down. That's why you have to iron or in an other way burn oakwood.   Louis Huivenaar Netherlands Harmonium and Reedorgan restorer Appraiser under Oath for Harmoniums and Reedorgans in Europe +31 75 684 4858 ( Tel/Fax Factory) +31 75 684 6552 ( Privat) +31 653 117 697 ( Mobil) Website: www.harmoniums.com   -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org]Namens Bob Loesch Verzonden: donderdag 27 januari 2000 22:31 Aan: Residence Organ List Onderwerp: Re: [Residence Organs] Burning holes (was making own chests)   At 01:26 PM 01/27/2000 -0500, Eric Sagmuller wrote: >Perhaps others on the list can enlighten us >to why burned holes ?     I was told that it was done to seal the pores of the wood against air leakage.     Regards,   Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA   http://www.jps.net/rrloesch   Time flies whether you're having fun or not!   The best things in life aren't THINGS.   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: [Fwd: Mitering Pipes] From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:57:26 -0600   I have been asked by Richard Schneider to forward this to the list. Unfortunately, because of computer problems at his shop he is unable to send out mail to the list from the address he is subscribed under.   David   > > KmballMan@aol.com >KmballMan@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi list members > > > I have just joined the list and am installing the 1927 Kimball 3/8 = theatre > > organ from the Lansdowne theatre, lansdowne Pa. in my home. I am >in Jackson > > Mississippi. > > > > My first problem is that I have 6 or so 8' string and celeste >pipes that are > > too tall for my shambers and need to be mitred. Do any of you >folks know of > > someone within reasonable distance that I can have do this delicate = work > >Well, I'm not close, but our shop certainly can do the work! > >Actually: I'm not aware of any Pipeshops in the South at all. A day's >drive and you could be up here with the pipes, we'll take care of the >work "while you wait", and then send you home with what you need. > >If anyone else on the list is interested in similar services, let me >know. Because of our heavy schedule these days, such work has to be "by >appointment only". Please, do not just show up with the pipes and expect >me to drop everything to work on them. I may not be able to do this! > >Hope this helps! > >Faithfully, > >"Arp in the Corn Patch" >Richard Schneider, President >SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. >Organbuilders >41-43 Johnston St. >P.O. Box 137 >Kenney, IL 61749-0137 >(217) 944-2454 VOX >(217) 944-2527 FAX >arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com Business EMAIL >rnjs@family-net.net Personal EMAIL >http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com Web Page URL    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Suitability of surplus blowers From: <RDoer30176@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:09:35 EST   Hi Dave and List. I might need a blower like this for a calliope I am building. 29" of mercury, how many pounds, PSI is that?   I have a 7 1/2 HP single phase blower, was used at 6" with a static most likely is 9". The barrel is in two pieces, bolted together. Unbolted it can go thru a = 30 inch door. Anybody need one?   In a message dated 00-01-27 14:23:30 EST, you write:   > > 500cfm @ 29"hg (FAN)SR150 > Industrial blower made for use in SRS's 10KW transmitter using a = 4CX15,000, > maintaining 500 cfm @ 29" of mercury back pressure. High speed = impeller. > 2875 rpm, 1.5 hp, 115/230 vac, 18 / 9 amps, 50/60 Hz, 1 phase. 5.5" = inlet > has airflow indicator. Outlet 4.5" diameter has diffuser chamber = attached. > 18" high. New, unused. $695 each. > > Dave McClellan > Atlanta > >  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Suitability of surplus blowers From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:35:53 EST   Hi listers--- 29~~~30 inches of mercury is one atmosphere,,,or around 15 lbs pressure. = (psi) Hope this helps. ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Step down regulators From: <RDoer30176@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:40:19 EST   Hi Kelvin In general terms, a reg. with curtain valve does not care,within reason, = what the inlet prusure is. The reg. presure is controled by weight, springs or = both. For the consloe blower, a small curtain valve reg, would be fine. One say 8"by10" would do. A little larger would be better. In your case, if you are only needing to wind the tuba, maybe a separate blower would be better. But you would need another reg. 1 1/2 or 2 square feet. I have a windjammer blower on 15" 3 stage 120 volt 3" outlet. Not sure of = the cubic feet per minute but I think I can find out. Russ   In a message dated 00-01-27 15:54:06 EST, you write:   > Subj: [Residence Organs] Step down regulators > Date: 00-01-27 15:54:06 EST > From: KelvinSmith@untraveledroad.com (Kelvin Smith) > Sender: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Reply-to: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org (Residence Organ List) > To: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org (Residence Organ List) > > Hello, > > I have a question about regulators. I am looking into replacing my = blower > and considering one with higher pressure output. The old one I assume = had a > static of 7". I am looking at one with about 15" static. It was = suggested > that I use a "step down regulator" to get closer to the ~5" pressure = for > most of the windchests. I do not understand very well how a regulator = would > be affected by higher input pressure. Except for the pedal, my whole = organ > has been fed through a main regulator that then fed regulators for each > division. With the new blower I was hoping the main regulator could be = set > at 10" pressure (which is the pressure I want the tuba to be on) and = then > go down to 4 to 5 inches at the divisional windchests. > > Here are some questions: > 1. Is the pressure in a regulator affected by a) just the weight on the > regulator or b) does the input pressure affect it also? In order to > regulate accurately, it seems that the weight ought to be the only = factor. > > 2. If the input pressure is higher, the regulator would tend to fill up > more with the same amount of opening at the curtain valve. Am I right = to > think that I can adjust the curtain valve to compensate for the higher > pressure (the objective to keep the spill valve from opening). > > 3. How much difference can you get between static and regulated = pressure > with one regulator? > > I have another situation where I need to understand this. I have a = blower > to operate the pneumatics in my console combination action which puts = out > about 20" pressure (not much cfm of course). I doubt the solenoids will > operate against that much pressure. I am anticipating the need for a > regulator to reduce the pressure. I am trying to decide what would = prevent > me from getting whatever pressure I end up needing by building a small > regulator with a small curtain valve so that not much air goes into it. > > Thanks, > Kelvin  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Step down regulators From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:17:04 EST   Hi Kelvin--- I recently purchased a console regulator from a 4 manual A-S pipe organ,,,,supposedly the last console that they built. The console = regulator is 6X6 inches,,,,and has no curtain valve,,,it has a cone type valve = worked by a relatively thick pouch about 4 inches in diameter, and that with a = coil spring (adjustable) on the top of the cone valve/pouch assembly. This regulator is marked 10 inches on it,,however,,I adjusted it down to to 4 inches without any problems. The cone is about 3 inches in diameter. It looks like one that size could be made easily,,,,,I would think if it was designed to wind a 4m console it would be big enuf for about anything in = the console department. Hope this helps. Regards, ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Fun with resonators From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:20:49 EST   I maneged to find a set off 16' Skinner boot's,the bottom 12,and Werlitzer =   diaphone resonater's.To gether they make a prety good pedal reed.All out = of left over's.16' reed's are exspensive and every body else is looking for = them also.Werlitzer reed's I guess always mitered for strength.They are heavy. Dennis  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Suitability of surplus blowers From: <RDoer30176@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:37:40 EST   In a message dated 00-01-27 20:37:08 EST, you write:   > > Hi listers--- > 29~~~30 inches of mercury is one atmosphere,,,or around 15 lbs = pressure. ( > psi) > Hope this helps. > ---Roc Hi Roc,Dave and List. Roc is,I assume, correct. But I cannot believe that a 1 1/2 HP blower can output 500 cfm at 15 psi? But 500 cfm at 29" of water I could believe. Any comments. I still would like to know where these are available. 29" of water is a little over one psi. In the range I can use. Russ     > 500cfm @ 29"hg (FAN)SR150 > Industrial blower made for use in SRS's 10KW transmitter using a = 4CX15,000, > maintaining 500 cfm @ 29" of mercury back pressure. High speed = impeller. > 2875 rpm, 1.5 hp, 115/230 vac, 18 / 9 amps, 50/60 Hz, 1 phase. 5.5" = inlet > has airflow indicator. Outlet 4.5" diameter has diffuser chamber = attached. > 18" high. New, unused. $695 each. > > Dave McClellan > Atlanta  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Step down regulators From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:38:19 -0500   Kelvin Smith raised some interesting questions about pressure regulation. In an ideal world, it is probably true that a regulator would always = output its specified pressure as long as the input pressure remains at least a little bit higher.   Real life regulators, though, most certainly have a certain amount of imperfection, and that might well result in some amount of variation in = the output pressure as the regulator's valve(s) open and close. That effect seems likely to be increased with higher input pressures.   Take an extreme example, for example: if the input pressure were 1 million PSI, and the output pressure were 3", then as the regulator decided to admit some input in order to maintain the output, the slightest opening of its valve would admit a stupendous blast of high pressure air, and that just can't avoid affecting the output.   It was an extreme, but the principle is still there -- some amount of the input will affect the output unless the regulator is "perfect".   Isn't there a quote from G. Donald Harrison in one of the Callahan books regarding statis regulators? He explained that Aeolian-Skinner was using them, set to produce an output that was just an inch or two higher in pressure than the output of the regulators up in the organ chamber. That way, the chamber regulators didn't have to deal with a large pressure difference.   In the theatre organ world, it seems to be a general rule that the static pressure should be about 150% of the chest pressure in order to get a "good" tremulant, at least for Tibias. The high input pressure gives a = bit of a "bump" to the pipes when the regulator valve opens. I would suspect that for a more classic organ design that effect would be considered a defect and that static regulators would be a good idea if the blower pressure were considerably higher than the chest pressure.   Kelvin -- why not try it each way and tell us the results?!?   Larry Chace > >I have a question about regulators. I am looking into replacing my blower >and considering one with higher pressure output. The old one I assume had = a >static of 7". I am looking at one with about 15" static. It was suggested >that I use a "step down regulator" to get closer to the ~5" pressure for >most of the windchests. I do not understand very well how a regulator = would >be affected by higher input pressure. Except for the pedal, my whole = organ >has been fed through a main regulator that then fed regulators for each >division. With the new blower I was hoping the main regulator could be = set >at 10" pressure (which is the pressure I want the tuba to be on) and then >go down to 4 to 5 inches at the divisional windchests. > >Here are some questions: >1. Is the pressure in a regulator affected by a) just the weight on the >regulator or b) does the input pressure affect it also? In order to >regulate accurately, it seems that the weight ought to be the only = factor. > >2. If the input pressure is higher, the regulator would tend to fill up >more with the same amount of opening at the curtain valve. Am I right to >think that I can adjust the curtain valve to compensate for the higher >pressure (the objective to keep the spill valve from opening). > >3. How much difference can you get between static and regulated pressure >with one regulator? > >I have another situation where I need to understand this. I have a blower >to operate the pneumatics in my console combination action which puts out >about 20" pressure (not much cfm of course). I doubt the solenoids will >operate against that much pressure. I am anticipating the need for a >regulator to reduce the pressure. I am trying to decide what would = prevent >me from getting whatever pressure I end up needing by building a small >regulator with a small curtain valve so that not much air goes into it. > >Thanks, >Kelvin > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Step down regulators From: <RDoer30176@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:09:31 EST   In a message dated 00-01-27 22:36:06 EST, you write:   > > It was an extreme, but the principle is still there -- some amount of = the > input will affect the output unless the regulator is "perfect". > Kelvin,Larry and list. There is a lot of difference. Between say a curtain reg. and a single = cone reg. The curtain reg. can have a lot higher presure in relative to the = regulated presure. In a single cone valve, if the in presure is too much more than the = regulated presure, the regulator will oscilate. Wurlizter regs. have a small cone = to break open first, then a medium and larger flap valve that do most of the work. =   They are the best for tremulant work where there is a lot of action. Curtain valves are used more for classical organs. The wurlizter style can also handle more inlet presure. But many things can vary in the different regs due to = size,presures, ratios, stabillity, accuracy and many other variables. The main point is, watch out for those single cone regs. Russ  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Step down regulators From: <RDoer30176@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:25:20 EST   In a message dated 00-01-27 21:17:38 EST, you write:   > > Hi Kelvin--- > I recently purchased a console regulator from a 4 manual A-S pipe > organ,,,,supposedly the last console that they built. The console regulator > is 6X6 inches,,,,and has no curtain valve,,,it has a cone type valve worked > by a relatively thick pouch about 4 inches in diameter, and that with a =   coil > > spring (adjustable) on the top of the cone valve/pouch assembly. This > regulator is marked 10 inches on it,,however,,I adjusted it down to to = 4 > inches without any problems. The cone is about 3 inches in diameter. = It > looks like one that size could be made easily,,,,,I would think if it = was > designed to wind a 4m console it would be big enuf for about anything = in the > > console department. > Hope this helps. > Regards, > ---Roc > Hi All In my reference to regulators and single cone valve regs. I was not referring to the style of cone/palet type as mentioned above by Roc. I have no info on the =   action of this style of regulator. Russ