DIYAPASON-L Digest #127 - Monday, July 24, 2000
 
Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs]  Introduction
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs]  Introduction
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs]  Introduction
  by "John Durgan" <kimbalman@earthlink.net>
Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs]  Introduction
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs]  Introduction
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: Relays ! ? !
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs] Introduction From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:56:38 -0400   Sorry this reply is a little late friends.     >Bob wrote: (in reply to John) > >Would you mind sharing with the list which system you're installing? I'm >going to replace the relay on my Wurlitzer/Whatever, and I'm in the = process >of deciding which system to use. > > >Regards, >Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA   I requested some info. earlier in regards to this, on Emutek. Thanks to the response I got and a nice discussion with Allen Miller from Z-tronics I've decided to steer far clear of Emutek's products. Their products seem to have an attractive price but have some real problems with their operation and support of them.   What I've found is that their relays are just too slow. They are a good 1/3 slower than their competition. Also there are problems with their combination action system not functioning properly. I was told that legal means are now being pursued, as Emutek has not corrected the problems.   I just spoke with a business friend of mine again, that has been trying to get a working MIDI to pipe driver board from Emutek for the past 6 months or more. After waiting months past the due date, the board(s) finally arrived, only to have a chip and some connectors missing. Emutek finally sent the chip, but the connectors had to be purchased from others as Emutek said they were back ordered. After things were connected, the board didn't work and had to be sent back. Weeks later, after a promised two to three day turnaround the board is back and will be tested again. I know at this point Virgil wishes he wouldn't even have messed with Emutek.   Anyway, I've decided to go with Z-tronics. They have a very nice product for the price and I know it works well, as others on this list have indicated, and their relay doesn't depend on a microprocessor that quickly becomes obsolete.   Have a Great day all, Eric    
(back) Subject: Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs] Introduction From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:48:50 -0700   At 12:56 07/24/2000 -0400, Eric Sagmuller wrote: >Sorry this reply is a little late friends.   Perfectly all right, my friend!   >I requested some info. earlier in regards to this, on Emutek. Thanks >to the response I got and a nice discussion with Allen Miller from >Z-tronics I've decided to steer far clear of Emutek's products. >[discussion on Emutek snipped]   Thanks for the lengthy and detailed response re: Emutek. I've never heard anything, good or bad, about the Emutek system, although I had considered them in the past. I have heard much good, though, about the Z-tronics system, and it looks like I will look at them, next. Thanks again!   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs] Introduction From: "John Durgan" <kimbalman@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:16:54 -0500   I find it very strange that there are so many problem issues with emutek. = I have played several organs using that system and found it very = satisfactory, not to mention simple in comparison to others. I have also have conversations with the folks at the factory and found them very co-operative. I think there is a lot to be said for being able to easily change your own programming rather than using some hard coded predesigned and built system.   My own personal view.   J Durgan Mississippi   ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Sagmuller <ess4@psu.edu> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs] Introduction     > Sorry this reply is a little late friends. > > > >Bob wrote: (in reply to John) > > > >Would you mind sharing with the list which system you're installing? = I'm > >going to replace the relay on my Wurlitzer/Whatever, and I'm in the process > >of deciding which system to use. > > > > > >Regards, > >Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA > > I requested some info. earlier in regards to this, on Emutek. Thanks > to the response I got and a nice discussion with Allen Miller from > Z-tronics I've decided to steer far clear of Emutek's products. > Their products seem to have an attractive price but have some real > problems with their operation and support of them. > > What I've found is that their relays are just too slow. They are a > good 1/3 slower than their competition. Also there are problems with > their combination action system not functioning properly. I was told > that legal means are now being pursued, as Emutek has not corrected > the problems. > > I just spoke with a business friend of mine again, that has been > trying to get a working MIDI to pipe driver board from Emutek for the > past 6 months or more. After waiting months past the due date, the > board(s) finally arrived, only to have a chip and some connectors > missing. Emutek finally sent the chip, but the connectors had to be > purchased from others as Emutek said they were back ordered. > After things were connected, the board didn't work and had to be sent > back. Weeks later, after a promised two to three day turnaround the > board is back and will be tested again. I know at this point Virgil > wishes he wouldn't even have messed with Emutek. > > Anyway, I've decided to go with Z-tronics. They have a very nice > product for the price and I know it works well, as others on this > list have indicated, and their relay doesn't depend on a > microprocessor that quickly becomes obsolete. > > Have a Great day all, > Eric > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs] Introduction From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:33:14 -0400   John wrote:   >I find it very strange that there are so many problem issues with emutek. = I >have played several organs using that system and found it very = satisfactory, >not to mention simple in comparison to others. I have also have >conversations with the folks at the factory and found them very >co-operative. I think there is a lot to be said for being able to easily >change your own programming rather than using some hard coded predesigned >and built system. >   Checking the pipeorg-l archives I did find a few good reports on Emutek from two to three years back. I wonder if their quality has taken a downturn in the past year or two.   I also have spoken with and e-mailed the president at Emutek. He seems like a nice enough guy but as my friend with the MIDI problem said, it seems as though he (Emutek's president) has his hands in too many things, for a small company. Looking at their web page they are into quite a few different product lines/ services other than organ products.   Please understand what I expressed is based on the experience my friend and I have had and what some others have shared with me. The customer that is the end result of this MIDI interface, that's dragged out so long, is very upset at this point.   There are usually two sides to a story and I just felt I should share my concerns. Maybe some others will shed a different light. A little while back I requested information on Emutek, but didn't get any positive replies. As most know, buying a relay/ combo action control can get very expensive fast, and once done it had better work right.   Thanks, Eric    
(back) Subject: Re: Relays (was) [Residence Organs] Introduction From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:12:20 -0700   At 13:16 07/24/2000 -0500, John Durgan wrote: >I find it very strange that there are so many problem issues with emutek. = I >have played several organs using that system and found it very = satisfactory, >not to mention simple in comparison to others.   It does sound simple, and that is its greatest 'plus'. I've never before heard any other 'minus', but I've never had the opportunity to play an organ that uses that system. The 'slowness' of the system isn't a drawback, at least to me, as most theatre organs including Wurlitzer had a certain 'slowness' built into their electro-pneumatic relays, which was compounded by the usual distance between console and pipes. The San Francisco Orpheum Theatre's Morton organ was so slow that one couldn't listen to one's own playing, but had to 'hear' the music in one's head. Trying to listen to the pipes as they played, one would wind up either playing VERY erratic rhythms (my original fault), or playing so slowly the tune wasn't immediately recognizable. Once one has mastered that, 'slowness' doesn't matter. I once heard Tiny James play with a band, and his hands were clearly two or three beats ahead of the orchestra. Despite its 'slowness' though, he kept them together.   > I have also have >conversations with the folks at the factory and found them very >co-operative. I think there is a lot to be said for being able to easily >change your own programming rather than using some hard coded predesigned >and built system.   That is, for me at least, its biggest plus, as I'm going to be building up a 'changable' relay system, and had originally designed it to work via two Wurlitzer relays in series. As I can change the spec. with software, the Emutek system seems great. I cannot, however, have a system which won't work, and which has slow turn-around on repairs.   >My own personal view.   My view is my own, too! :-) The 'jury' is still out!     Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Relays ! ? ! From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:57:58 EDT   I have built 3 Z-tronics relays. After some intial problems caused by my clients handling and blowing some CMOS chips, all ran fine and years later =   are still going strong with no problems whatsoever. I had added some = spike protection to the power supply for the boards in the consoles. My wiring = was exquisitely done in each case and required a substantial amount of time = and planning to make sure the console units looked great. The hard wiring = meant that you would not want to make a mistake that would require undoing the = loom work. At some point you feel like you are doing knit one pearl two. As = for having your stop specifications written in stone, do what I do; each relay =   was built with extra stops and extra ranks. The Towne Theatre 3/14 = Wurlitzer is wired to go for another 4 ranks to get a total of 18 ranks with = additions for more percussions also. The key word is plan ahead and wire ahead.   There are several Emutek relays installed in Northern California. One = local tech says they work fine for him and pushes the product. I haven't = crunched the numbers on costs but would only be interested if the MIDI board = worked, PERFECTLY.   I personally am looking for a system whereby MIDI files can be taken off = of the Internet and put through a computer for adjustment then be made to = play back on one of my client's instruments. I was hoping the Emutek was the answer as it is only a fraction of the Wilcox relay I have been = contemplating for the project.   Best wishes to all,   Al Sefl