DIYAPASON-L Digest #101 - Monday, May 29, 2000
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Used Chests
  by "mike mcdonald" <pipeorganman@localaccess.com>
Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by "John Burns" <burnsjr@prodigy.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by <RDoer30176@aol.com>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by "John Bowers" <JABowers@execpc.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by "John Burns" <burnsjr@prodigy.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Two Phase Spencer Blower
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Used Chests From: "mike mcdonald" <pipeorganman@localaccess.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:18:52 -0700   What part of the US are you located in? I have several chest but frt is = a big factor. Mike   Tom Ed Moore wrote:   > Dear List, > > I am searching for a good, used, 4 rk chest. Any suggestions on where = to look > will be appreciated. > > Tom Ed Moore > tmoore@unanov.una.edu > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Two Phase Spencer Blower From: "John Burns" <burnsjr@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:33:13 -0400   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0003_01BFC972.702B3DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   This weekend, I obtained (with much help from a couple guys on the list = and their friend - more on that later) a 1926 vintage Spencer 2 HP blower, operated on Two Phase power. Does anyone know if single phase to two = phase converters are available? If so, who makes them? Could a three phase be = used in a modified fashion to do this? Thanks.   John     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0003_01BFC972.702B3DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <P>This weekend, I obtained (with much help from a couple guys on the =3D list and=3D20 their friend - more on that later) a 1926 vintage Spencer 2 HP blower, =3D operated=3D20 on <STRONG><EM><U>Two Phase</U></EM></STRONG>&nbsp; power. Does anyone =3D know if=3D20 single phase to two phase converters are available? If so, who makes =3D them? Could=3D20 a three phase be used in a modified fashion to do this? Thanks.</P> <P>John</P></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0003_01BFC972.702B3DC0--    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:48:43 EDT   I think you have a single phase motor there. On single phase you have two 110 leg's/( wires) plus a common/ground wire. = That gives you 220.   On three phase you have three 110 or 220 or 440 legs plus the ground.   My best guess is that you have a single phase 220 motor on this blower.   House current is usually two 110 legs coming from the pole with a common/ground. Older houses do have 110. Do you know if your house is 110 = or 220? If you call your gas and electric company, they can probably come = out and tell you.   There are typically single phase and three phase motors/wiring.   Have a nice memorial day( don't zzzaaaaapppp yourself today ) :) Jest kidding!   Dennis Wheezr  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:54:18 -0700   At 13:33 05/29/2000 -0400, you wrote: > This weekend, I obtained (with much help from a couple guys on the = list >and their friend - more on that later) a 1926 vintage Spencer 2 HP = blower, >operated on Two Phase power. Does anyone know if single phase to two >phase converters are available? If so, who makes them? Could a three = phase >be used in a modified fashion to do this? Thanks. John   IMO, a single-phase to 3-phase converter would work, but the second phase would be slightly out of phase. In 3-phase, the phases are 120 deg out of phase with each other, in 2-phase, they are 90 degrees one way, 270 the other. Using two of the 3-phases, one would be 120 degrees one way, and 240 degrees the other. I don't know if the motor would over heat, or if = it would develope maximum power.     Regards,   Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA   NAWCC 140818   http://www.jps.net/rrloesch   alternate email: cuckoobob@eudoramail.com   Time flies whether you're having fun or not!      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:57:17 -0700   NOT SO!!!!! Two-phase power used to be offered by many power companies, but was discontinued, at least in the San Francisco Bay Area, about 30-40 years ago, about the time they stopped supplying DC to elevator motors. 2-phase is a 4-wire system for power, plus one for ground, making it a 5-wire system. See my other post for description.   At 13:48 05/29/2000 EDT, Pipewheezr@aol.com wrote: >I think you have a single phase motor there. >On single phase you have two 110 leg's/( wires) plus a common/ground = wire. >That gives you 220. > >On three phase you have three 110 or 220 or 440 legs plus the ground. > >My best guess is that you have a single phase 220 motor on this blower. > >House current is usually two 110 legs coming from the pole with a >common/ground. Older houses do have 110. Do you know if your house is = 110 or >220? If you call your gas and electric company, they can probably come = out >and tell you. > >There are typically single phase and three phase motors/wiring. > >Have a nice memorial day( don't zzzaaaaapppp yourself today ) :) Jest >kidding! > >Dennis Wheezr > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > >   Regards,   Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA   NAWCC 140818   http://www.jps.net/rrloesch   alternate email: cuckoobob@eudoramail.com   Time flies whether you're having fun or not!      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: <RDoer30176@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:13:32 EDT   In a message dated 5/29/00 10:32:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, burnsjr@prodigy.net writes: Hi All Does the name plate on the motor show a CAPACITOR size, if so it's easy. Russ << This weekend, I obtained (with much help from a couple guys on the list = and their friend - more on that later) a 1926 vintage Spencer 2 HP blower, operated on Two Phase power. Does anyone know if single phase to two = phase converters are available? If so, who makes them? Could a three phase be = used in a modified fashion to do this? Thanks. John >>  
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:27:47 -0500   We here in corn country have motor converters and phase adaptors. Where = are you?     ----- Original Message ----- From: <RDoer30176@aol.com> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower     > In a message dated 5/29/00 10:32:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > burnsjr@prodigy.net writes: > Hi All > Does the name plate on the motor show a CAPACITOR size, if so it's easy. > Russ > << This weekend, I obtained (with much help from a couple guys on the = list and > their friend - more on that later) a 1926 vintage Spencer 2 HP blower, > operated on Two Phase power. Does anyone know if single phase to two phase > converters are available? If so, who makes them? Could a three phase be used > in a modified fashion to do this? Thanks. > > John > >> > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:52:07 EDT   Hi Russ-- and listers that might be interested-- I was one of the guys that helped John Burns take the organ/blower out = over the weekend. Yep,,it is a 2 phase motor, sez so right on the name plate, Woods, 2hp, = and the blower was originally on a TO in a downtown area, and removed in the early 40's to a church in a former coal mining town in NE Pennsy. It was only the second 2 phase motor I had seen on a Spencer in 50+ years, =   and it had no capacitor information on the plate. I had wondered as well, if a capacitor arrangement could be employed to shift phase enuf to run this motor. It perhaps should be noted , that a = 2HP Century single phase, 120-240 v repulsion start induction run motor had = been double V belted to the back of the Woods where the generator originally = was and that was what was running the blower for a long number of years, as evidenced by the age of the wooden platform fastened to the skids on the Spencer that held the Century. There were a number of vibration issues = thru some critical speeds when running the Spencer,,,however, they could be = from a number of things in my opinion. Its also possible that the original Woods = 2 phase motor was in need of rewinding, which is why the Century was = added,,but I somehow doubt that, we did not meter check the Woods motor, nor was it important to the overall removal project. At any rate--I am most = interested as well in hearing the collective wisdom of this great list as to how to proceed. By the way,,, I am in no way attempting to circumvent John Burn's = post,,,,I just know he's tired from a VERY busy "organic" weekend, but as he said, more on that later. <G> Regards, ---Roc L V Rockafellow  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: "John Bowers" <JABowers@execpc.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:43:39 -0500   Hmmm, sorta seems to me that if you have 90 degrees one way and 270 degrees the other that adds up to pretty close to 180 degrees from each other. Somehow or other that kinda seems pretty similar to the good old single phase 230 volt standard that many of us use today. Wouldn't throwing a phase converter in the works just complicate matters and reduce efficiency by about 40 percent??   I'm also a little curious, if you've got two phases and one is 90 degrees and the other is 270 degrees, what are they out of phase with?? Since there are only two phases they can only be referenced to each other. That still comes up 180 degrees which still sounds like single phase.   I wonder if a standard single phase to two phase 'converter' might also be known as a transformer with a grounded center tap, - a very common item here in the middle west.   Just some random thoughts that come to mind.   John     > IMO, a single-phase to 3-phase converter would work, but the second = phase > would be slightly out of phase. In 3-phase, the phases are 120 deg out = of > phase with each other, in 2-phase, they are 90 degrees one way, 270 the > other. Using two of the 3-phases, one would be 120 degrees one way, and > 240 degrees the other.    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:01:10 -0700   I've put a page on my web site detailing wiring two-phase motors on = 3-phase power. I've got lots more info, but don't have the time to detail it. Suffice it to say that two-phase is NOT single phase.   See: http://www.jps.net/rrloesch/reconnec.htm     At 14:43 05/29/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hmmm, sorta seems to me that if you have 90 degrees one way and 270 >degrees the other that adds up to pretty close to 180 degrees from >each other. Somehow or other that kinda seems pretty similar to the >good old single phase 230 volt standard that many of us use today. >Wouldn't throwing a phase converter in the works just complicate >matters and reduce efficiency by about 40 percent?? > >I'm also a little curious, if you've got two phases and one is 90 >degrees and the other is 270 degrees, what are they out of phase >with?? Since there are only two phases they can only be referenced >to each other. That still comes up 180 degrees which still sounds >like single phase. > >I wonder if a standard single phase to two phase 'converter' might >also be known as a transformer with a grounded center tap, - a >very common item here in the middle west. > >Just some random thoughts that come to mind. > >John > > >> IMO, a single-phase to 3-phase converter would work, but the second = phase >> would be slightly out of phase. In 3-phase, the phases are 120 deg out = of >> phase with each other, in 2-phase, they are 90 degrees one way, 270 the >> other. Using two of the 3-phases, one would be 120 degrees one way, = and >> 240 degrees the other. > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > >   Regards,   Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA   NAWCC 140818   http://www.jps.net/rrloesch   alternate email: cuckoobob@eudoramail.com   Time flies whether you're having fun or not!      
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: "John Burns" <burnsjr@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:38:50 -0400   Bob and all,   Thanks. Haven't replied yet in detail due to being much busier at work tonight than I anticipated. When I when to the below URL, the pictures didn't download. Under properties, the first is listed as http//:www.ips.net/WINDOWS/TEMP/2phase1.JPG. Looks like it may never have made it off your computer to the server.   John   -----Original Message----- From: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Bob Loesch Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 10:01 PM To: Residence Organ List Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower     I've put a page on my web site detailing wiring two-phase motors on = 3-phase power. I've got lots more info, but don't have the time to detail it. Suffice it to say that two-phase is NOT single phase.   See: http://www.jps.net/rrloesch/reconnec.htm    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:55:33 -0700   OOPS!!!!! I forgot to upload the drawings. BIG DUH.... Try again. This time it should work....   With egg on my face, Bob...     At 23:38 05/29/2000 -0400, John Burns wrote: >Bob and all, > >Thanks. Haven't replied yet in detail due to being much busier at work >tonight than I anticipated. When I when to the below URL, the pictures >didn't download. Under properties, the first is listed as >http//:www.ips.net/WINDOWS/TEMP/2phase1.JPG. Looks like it may never have >made it off your computer to the server. > >John > >-----Original Message----- >From: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org]On >Behalf Of Bob Loesch >Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 10:01 PM >To: Residence Organ List >Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Two Phase Spencer Blower > > >I've put a page on my web site detailing wiring two-phase motors on = 3-phase >power. I've got lots more info, but don't have the time to detail it. >Suffice it to say that two-phase is NOT single phase. > >See: http://www.jps.net/rrloesch/reconnec.htm > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > >