DIYAPASON-L Digest #376 - Thursday, August 30, 2001
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Console progress
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Console progress
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: La March rectifiers
  by "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Console progress
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: La March rectifiers
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Free Pipe Organ Piano
  by "james turner" <JTTUNER@webtv.net>
Recommended sources for replacement of missing pipes
  by "Dave McClellan" <drmc@speedfactory.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Console progress
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Recommended sources for replacement of missing pi
  by "John Haskey" <johnh@powerinter.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Recommended sources for replacement of missing pi
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Recommended sources for replacement of missing pi
  by <DEMPAR1@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Console progress From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 02:44:45 EDT   I now have the swell manual done with the exception of screwing on the new =   plastic nuts under the keys which will be done when the nuts arrive, and = then adjusting the keys of course. I completely dismantled the 3 slider contact assembly, cleaned, lubed and =   reassembled it.   Next comes the great and it's 6 slider contact assembly, and wiring wheee = :-|   I dragged up one of the newer rectifiers I have, a "La Marche Orgalectric" = Type; A9DWA No. 18467 from a Reuter organ. It's case looks pretty new with the = hammered metal textured silver paint and a plastic stick on brand label that has a sparkle background. The internals are all very clean and transformers = painted or coated with red. If I guessed I would say the unit is no older than = many 1990   I sent an email to La March in Des Plaines Ill to see if parts are = available for it if needed.   Here was their reply;     "The Orgelectra line of power supplies is no longer in production. Your = unit appears to be very old also and it is doubtful that any replacement parts are still available. In order to find the source of your problem you may want to check the output capacitor(s) and also the silicon diodes. There = is a chance that you may not have diodes but a selenium stack. If this is = the case, the unit can no longer be serviced. In any case, if it is not the diodes or the capacitors, the power supply is beyond repair. " ------   I have no idea what a "Selenium stack is" but I see no diodes of the type = I am familiar with; the small clear glass deals on printed circuit boards. There's 3 transformers, 2 long aluminum capacitors, a long coiled resister =   tube, 2 heavy aluminum heat sink plates with 2 diodes on each. It is rated 120 VAC 8 AMP in , 5 AMPS cont, 10 AMPS max DC 10-15V I have another rectifier from the Kilgen organ but it is a 220v jobbie and =   looks like it is from the 50s or earlier, less efficient as it says 12VAC = 10 AMPS in. I also have the one from the Moller which does work but the La Marche is a =   better unit and newer, it is putting out about 12, maybe 12-1/2 VDC with = the voltage control tap on the 13V lug. Seems to me a discussion on piporg-l a couple of years ago about the 90 = OHM magnets and the voltages, that running 12 VDC stuff on 10 or 11 thinking = it was better for the componet's life etc wasn't the case. I'm wondering if I should run the voltage tap to the 14 V lug and see = what the reading is and leave it there since I will be running more magnets = than the Reuter organ this rectifier powered (thinking voltage drop and = additional wire resistance)         Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Console progress From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:26:05 -0400   At 2:44 AM -0400 8/30/01, Mpmollerorgan@aol.com wrote: > >I have no idea what a "Selenium stack is" but I see no diodes of the type = I >am familiar with; the small clear glass deals on printed circuit boards. >There's 3 transformers, 2 long aluminum capacitors, a long coiled = resister >tube, 2 heavy aluminum heat sink plates with 2 diodes on each.   Randall,   If you can see diodes that are bolted to the heatsinks with a wire soldered to the other side, then they are almost certainly silicon. The Selenium stacks are a whole bunch of (usually square) fins that are stacked one after the other. The stack is what makes up the rectifier. When these things go bad they usually smell like rotten eggs.   Do your capacitors by chance have a date code on them? From around the 60's or so on up, many capacitors had date codes on them. Four digits that tell the last two year digits and week number. Example: 7503 =3D mfg. the 3rd week of 1975.   That's how I could tell how old my rectifier was. It's from the 80's as I remember. Most IC's have these numbers on them also giving an idea when the item was built. Of course if they were all changed by someone then this wouldn't be true, but that's usually unlikely.   Have fun, Eric    
(back) Subject: Re: La March rectifiers From: "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:03:29 -0700   In my 35 years of organ service, I've never seen any of the transformers go bad in the La Marche rectifiers. I have occasionally replaced the diodes, mostly the older selenium types (five or more plates with a mounting bolt through the middle) with the newer silicon types (either two or four diodes bolted on to two aluminum plates insulated from the case). After buying the first set of diodes from La Marche about 25 years ago paying very large prices and finding higher voltage rated diodes locally, I never bought any more parts from La Marche. La Marche was also worried that I'd be getting an extra 3/4 volt from the silicon diodes over the old selenium types but if anything , it improved the speed of the electric action.   You should verify voltage and polarity with your own volt meter before hokking it up to the organ. Some stop coils, espicially in console mechanical stop switches get very hot and even burn if the voltage is too high. I'd recommend the lowest voltage that works reliabily.   I would not replace anything unless there is something wrong. If you replace the capacitors, use the same number of MFD. If you go to a higher number of MFD, thinking it might be better for filtering, the rectifier will usually oscillate with voltage going up & down.   These rectifiers are ok for magnetic switching or diode switching relays. When used with the more sophisticated multiplex relays you can have some problems. They don't regulate fast so there is either a peak or a dip in the voltage momentarily until it can kick in. With the limited filtering, there can be plenty of trash in the DC. That's why most companies today use Astrons or some switching type of power supply.   Blaine Ricketts Castro Valley, CA   Mpmollerorgan@aol.com wrote: > > > I dragged up one of the newer rectifiers I have, a "La Marche = Orgalectric" > Type; A9DWA > No. 18467 from a Reuter organ. It's case looks pretty new with the = hammered > metal textured silver paint and a plastic stick on brand label that has = a > sparkle background. The internals are all very clean and transformers = painted > or coated with red. If I guessed I would say the unit is no older than = many > 1990 > > I sent an email to La March in Des Plaines Ill to see if parts are = available > for it if needed. >  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Console progress From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:19:38 EDT     >Randall, > >If you can see diodes that are bolted to the heatsinks with a wire >soldered to the other side, then they are almost certainly silicon. >The Selenium stacks are a whole bunch of (usually square) fins that >are stacked one after the other. The stack is what makes up the   I've seen those, this doesn't have that but does have a very small sort of =   stacked deal like that about 1" in diameter and is connected to two of the =   diodes. The diodes' wires are bolted to them not soldered.     >Do your capacitors by chance have a date code on them? From around >the 60's or so on up, many capacitors had date codes on them. Four     Only thing I see is 4029R RCA and Im certain it's not from 1940 The first patent number dates from 1953, but says "other patents pending"   There is a small grey oval shaped canister, no idea what it does, = connected directly to one of the transformers that says;   KKX37P305Q-20 3 MFD 370 VAC CDE-A-7112   So it might be from 1970 then. It has two automotive style fuses, 10 and 15 amp and the 15 is defective. Amazing what it takes equipment wise just to convert 120 VAC to 12 VDC = huh?   The other night I was reading about Thomas Edison, now if you want to read =   some interesting stuff check out;   http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml/edbiohm.html http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml   By the way, according to the reproduced newspaper article in there, he = burned 20 cigars a day and boiled all his food and only slept about 4 hours a = day.   Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/                  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: La March rectifiers From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:30:18 EDT     In a message dated 8/30/01 11:04:35 AM, blaineri@home.com writes:   >In my 35 years of organ service, I've never seen any of the transformers >go bad in the La Marche rectifiers. I have occasionally replaced the >diodes, mostly the older selenium types (five or more plates with a >mounting bolt through the middle) with the newer silicon types (either >two or four diodes bolted on to two aluminum plates insulated from the >case). After buying the first set of diodes from La Marche about 25 >years ago paying very large prices and finding higher voltage rated >diodes locally, I never bought any more parts from La Marche. La     Great, and you are right, this is the later style with the heavy aluminum plates and four diodes, 2 soda can sized capacitors, coil wound resister = and 3 transformers.   >You should verify voltage and polarity with your own volt meter before >hokking it up to the organ.   As it was set, I got 12-1/2 VDC   >Some stop coils, espicially in console >mechanical stop switches get very hot and even burn if the voltage is >too high. I'd recommend the lowest voltage that works reliabily.   I have stop tabs :) My DC system consists solely of 90 and 150 OHM Reisner and Moller chest magnets, one per pipe to be connected to the original Moller pouchboards = to exhaust them.     > >These rectifiers are ok for magnetic switching or diode switching >relays. When used with the more sophisticated multiplex relays you can >have some problems.   My system is more or less a restoration of the old, there is no solid = state switching, driver boards, MIDI etc nor likely to ever be, the console is = all original with it's 1929 electro-pneumatically operated couplers and = pistons. I just finished rebuilding the coupler control box and awaiting cloth from =   OSI to recover the 12 pneumatics.     Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Free Pipe Organ Piano From: "james turner" <JTTUNER@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:45:42 -0500 (EST)   I have an old Bush & Lane upright piano that is free to anyone who wants it. It will make a wonderful piano to hook up to someone's pipe organ.   Many piano technicians consider the Bush & Lane upright to be one of the finest uprights ever made. This one does need restored, but it is in restorable condition.   Unfortunately, someone "modernized" it one time into a mirror piano and so the case is not in the best shape. But for a pipe organ installation, the case would not be needed.   I live in Central Indiana and write me for more details.   Jim Turner    
(back) Subject: Recommended sources for replacement of missing pipes From: "Dave McClellan" <drmc@speedfactory.net> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:03:22 -0400   I have a rank with one missing pipes. What is the recommended method of acquiring a replacement? I'm sure the residence builders on this list = have dealt with this problem before. I would imagine that there is a whole = range of possible costs and waiting times.   In my case, the missing pipe is from the Great 2' Fifteenth (Principal), = 61 pipes. The scale of low C is about 70. Wind is 3.75". The pipe missing = is F above Middle C (speaking length aproximately 4"), slide tuned, spotted metal.   Any estimate on cost if adjacent pipes were sent to a parts supplier such = as OSI, or a pipe maker, and a suitable pipe made or provided, and voiced to match?   Any recommendations?   Thanks, Dave    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Console progress From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:08:11 -0400   At 12:19 PM -0400 8/30/01, Mpmollerorgan@aol.com wrote: > >Randall, > > > >If you can see diodes that are bolted to the heatsinks with a wire > >soldered to the other side, then they are almost certainly silicon. > >The Selenium stacks are a whole bunch of (usually square) fins that > >are stacked one after the other. The stack is what makes up the > >I've seen those, this doesn't have that but does have a very small sort = of >stacked deal like that about 1" in diameter and is connected to two of = the >diodes. The diodes' wires are bolted to them not soldered.   I'm not sure what that small stack would be, unless maybe its a heatsinked resistor. Yes larger diodes many times are bolted to rather than soldered. I forgot about this.   > > > >Do your capacitors by chance have a date code on them? From around > >the 60's or so on up, many capacitors had date codes on them. Four > > >Only thing I see is 4029R RCA and Im certain it's not from 1940 >The first patent number dates from 1953, but says "other patents pending" > >There is a small grey oval shaped canister, no idea what it does, = connected >directly to one of the transformers that says; > >KKX37P305Q-20 >3 MFD 370 VAC >CDE-A-7112   This is a film capacitor. Sounds like the transformer may be of the ferro-resonant type. These had somewhat better regulation.   > >So it might be from 1970 then.   Could be but not sure.   >It has two automotive style fuses, 10 and 15 amp and the 15 is defective. >Amazing what it takes equipment wise just to convert 120 VAC to 12 VDC = huh?   Didn't you say it was putting out around 12V? Maybe it was another one you were mentioning.   > >The other night I was reading about Thomas Edison, now if you want to = read >some interesting stuff check out; > >http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml/edbiohm.html >http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml > >By the way, according to the reproduced newspaper article in there, he = burned >20 cigars a day and boiled all his food and only slept about 4 hours a = day.   Wow. I'll have to check it out.   Eric    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Recommended sources for replacement of missing pipes From: "John Haskey" <johnh@powerinter.net> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:13:26 -0700 (PDT)       If it were me, I would take the two pipes on either side to my friendly local organ builder and ask for advice. (Fortunately, I have have a 'friendly local organ builder'). In the past he has been able to find suitable substitutes from his 'bone yard' of spare parts... especially for a pipe this small...   ---john.   On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Dave McClellan wrote:   > I have a rank with one missing pipes. What is the recommended method of > acquiring a replacement? I'm sure the residence builders on this list = have > dealt with this problem before. I would imagine that there is a whole = range > of possible costs and waiting times. > > In my case, the missing pipe is from the Great 2' Fifteenth (Principal), = 61 > pipes. The scale of low C is about 70. Wind is 3.75". The pipe = missing is > F above Middle C (speaking length aproximately 4"), slide tuned, = spotted > metal. > > Any estimate on cost if adjacent pipes were sent to a parts supplier = such as > OSI, or a pipe maker, and a suitable pipe made or provided, and voiced = to > match? > > Any recommendations? > > Thanks, > Dave > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Recommended sources for replacement of missing pipes From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:43:35 EDT     In a message dated 8/30/01 6:22:28 PM, drmc@speedfactory.net writes:   >I have a rank with one missing pipes. What is the recommended method of >acquiring a replacement? I'm sure the residence builders on this list >have dealt with this problem before. I would imagine that there is a = whole >range of possible costs and waiting times.   >In my case, the missing pipe is from the Great 2' Fifteenth (Principal), >61 pipes. The scale of low C is about 70. Wind is 3.75". The pipe = missing >is F above Middle C (speaking length aproximately 4"), slide tuned, = spotted >metal.   Most of us have used pipes hanging around but the problem is finding a = match, and one voiced on that odd to me wind pressure. It can be more trouble = than it's worth to sort through piles of junk used pipes to find ONE pipe for someone that may or may not work out, then what can be reasonably charged = for one used junk pipe? You would still have to likely do some work on it, revoicing or repair.   I see entire ranks of used pipes going from cheap to about $350 or so = around, wicks had about 100 ranks of used pipes on their web site for sale, most around $125, they had 2 or 3 vox humana for about $450 each. You might check their site.   I have bunches of used pipes sitting in my basement, none are 15th or mixtures sorry, I'm trying to get rid of, and a complete pedalboard I couldn't even get rid of for $100   Some guy 3 hours away wanted a "pre-wired" ??? pedal board and was only interested in a "pre wired" one but might take a look at this one if he = ever winds up in the neighborhood, I told him I wanted to start getting this = stuff out of my basement in the next few weeks and won't hold onto it forever waiting for him to maybe wander by.   The problem with this stuff besides having to match scale, wind etc up is = it costs a fortune to ship, a box of 9 zinc pipes 4' long down to Canada ran almost $60 for UPS plus the $50 the guy paid for the pipes, but as there = were no boxes long enough here to ship them I had to buy a bundle @ $54 It ran almost $10 to ship two small pipes elsewhere in a tube and they = turned out to be the wrong pipes. Another fellow wanted the few odd oboes but = then was in a car wreck and now doesn't want them.   I spent a lot of time trying to match pipes up with people's needs and 90% = of the time it was no match and lot of time wasted looking, emailing etc, so = I gave up trying to sell this stuff as replacement pipes and am going to = just start dumping stuff on ebay as souvenirs or wall decorations, I need the = room.         Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Recommended sources for replacement of missing pipes From: <DEMPAR1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:15:00 EDT   Organ Supply Industries can make a replacement pipe. My experiences have = usually been 60 days lead time. They will need the two adjacent pipes for = samples. The cost will probably run between $50 and $150.