DIYAPASON-L Digest #459 - Wednesday, December 12, 2001
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Addenda:  More on Heaters and Starter Definitions
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: Orgaflex and wood flanges
  by <Jess4203@aol.com>
Re: Spencer Blower & switch & overhaul
  by <Jess4203@aol.com>
RE:   Addenda:  More on Heaters and Starter Definitions
  by "Robert P. Bass" <rpbass@earthlink.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Orgaflex and wood flanges
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Spencer Blower & switch & overhaul
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE:   Addenda:  More on Heaters and Starter Defin
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Orgaflex and wood flanges
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
Primer on Orgaflex
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Primer on Orgaflex
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
RE: painted pipes
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Orgaflex and wood flanges
  by "Berley Antoine Firmin II" <FIRMAN1@prodigy.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: painted pipes
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Addenda: More on Heaters and Starter Definitions From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:49:10 EST     In a message dated 12/11/01 10:17:08 PM, arpschneider@starband.net writes:   >Mpmollerorgan@aol.com wrote: > >> Richard Schneider suggests Allen-Bradley, which product Richard?   >Just a Size 00 across-the-line Magnetic Starter with the properly-sized >heater elements in a NEMA Type 1 Enclosure will get you by.   I'll look thanks!   >> I found a few "soft starters" don't know if that is what you had in = mind;   >Given the size of the blower, and the fact that it's repulsion-induction >you shouldn't need anything as elaborate or expensive as A Soft Start >magnetic starter. Those are usually reserved for the "big boys" WAY out   Yeah most handled up to 600 volts or more from what I briefly looked at, = and come with umpteen options like soft stop, variable ramp speed and on and on.     >> Speaking of blowers, the electrician wired up the old St Vibiana now >LA >> Cathedral's old orgoblow Century 10HP blower in our storage building     >I'd be willing to guess that a blower like that from the Cathedral in >L.A. would probably have a 3 Phase motor for a 10 HP blower.   Yes, it is 3 phase, I once looked at the plate, I think it was 220/440 Forget what else it said other than it was a Century.   Most >anything that large in a place like that uses 3 phase whenever it is >available (and I'm sure a metropolitan location like L.A. has had 3 >phase adjacent to this building for YEARS!)   Don't forget though, this was in the original Wangerin installation in the =   landmark St Vibiana which had no foundation, and was built around 1899 I think. It was severely damaged by the quake and had to be demolished. The organ was salvaged, including the blower.   >Check the blower nameplate. That's why there's no brushes or a starter   I don't often go over there since it's 3 blocks away and one usually needs = a good work related reason to get the key and go, but next time I do I'll = see if I can remember to look and remember what it says.   Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: Orgaflex and wood flanges From: <Jess4203@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 01:21:22 EST     --part1_106.a295386.29485162_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi David and Randall and all:   Thanks for the info on the wooden flanges. What is villedon and where = would I get it? Would the cork that David suggests do as well to gasket these flanges? David, I assume that the aluminum slide goes between the block = and the cork and is adjusted by loosening the screws on the block, is that = right?   Randall, this is a small house organ and the 16 foot C Bourdon is just = 4.75 wide by 5.75 deep, so the OD's for the tubing are 1.125 to 0.5 inches. = Can someone quote an approximate price on those per foot? I will possibly = need flexible tubing in a few spots, but I could go with PVC also if the price = is a whole lot better. I have some other things to do before I get to = mounting these pipes, but at least I will know what to do when I get to it in a few =   weeks (I hope).   Regards, Roy Kersey   --part1_106.a295386.29485162_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi David and Randall = and all: <BR> <BR>Thanks for the info on the wooden flanges. &nbsp;What is villedon and = where would I get it? &nbsp;Would the cork that David suggests do as well = to gasket these flanges? &nbsp;David, I assume that the aluminum slide = goes between the block and the cork and is adjusted by loosening the = screws on the block, is that right? <BR> <BR>Randall, this is a small house organ and the 16 foot C Bourdon is just = 4.75 wide by 5.75 deep, so the OD's for the tubing are 1.125 to 0.5 = inches. &nbsp;Can someone quote an approximate price on those per foot? = &nbsp;I will possibly need flexible tubing in a few spots, but I could go = with PVC also if the price is a whole lot better. &nbsp;I have some other = things to do before I get to mounting these pipes, but at least I will = know what to do when I get to it in a few weeks (I hope). <BR> <BR>Regards, <BR>Roy Kersey &nbsp;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_106.a295386.29485162_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Spencer Blower & switch & overhaul From: <Jess4203@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 01:31:38 EST     --part1_11f.8c7920c.294853ca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi gang:   On the subject of blowers, I looked at mine and it is a Spencer Orgoblo, = Ser. # 22925, rated at 4" wind. The motor is a Century single phase rated for = 7.6 amps at 110 volts. Unfortunately, there is no switch or other goodies on = the motor, the wiring has been cut and rewired for 110 with a new pigtail. = What would I need in the way of a motor starter switch and "heaters"?   I am planning to remove and examine the motor bearings and regrease them. = I assume I will have to loosen the four screws that hold the motor down and then remove the front (fan end) of the sheet metal housing and then remove =   the fans from the shaft by loosening the set screws on these. I suppose = that then the motor will come off the back of the assembly and I will be able = to get to the bearings and get them loose. Am I missing something here? Can = I remove the front bearing or will I be unable to slip it off the shaft? = Will it have to be cleaned in place? Can I use a rag and some gas to get the bearing clean before regreasing?   TIA, Roy Kersey   --part1_11f.8c7920c.294853ca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi gang: <BR> <BR>On the subject of blowers, I looked at mine and it is a Spencer = Orgoblo, Ser. # 22925, rated at 4" wind. &nbsp;The motor is a Century = single phase rated for 7.6 amps at 110 volts. &nbsp;Unfortunately, there = is no switch or other goodies on the motor, the wiring has been cut and = rewired for 110 with a new pigtail. &nbsp;What would I need in the way of = a motor starter switch and "heaters"? <BR> <BR>I am planning to remove and examine the motor bearings and regrease = them. &nbsp;I assume I will have to loosen the four screws that hold the = motor down and then remove the front (fan end) of the sheet metal housing = and then remove the fans from the shaft by loosening the set screws on = these. &nbsp;I suppose that then the motor will come off the back of the = assembly and I will be able to get to the bearings and get them loose. = &nbsp;Am I missing something here? &nbsp;Can I remove the front bearing or = will I be unable to slip it off the shaft? &nbsp;Will it have to be = cleaned in place? &nbsp;Can I use a rag and some gas to get the bearing = clean before regreasing? <BR> <BR>TIA, <BR>Roy Kersey</FONT></HTML>   --part1_11f.8c7920c.294853ca_boundary--  
(back) Subject: RE: Addenda: More on Heaters and Starter Definitions From: "Robert P. Bass" <rpbass@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:44:46 -0800   Hi Randall,   If you wish to stay with the Square D product, maybe I can assist you in selecting the correct parts and part numbers. While both = Cutler-Hammer and Allen-Bradley have excellent products, personally I prefer the Square D = product line. Maybe the 25+ years experience with their entire line has some bearing on = my preferences <g>.   Your 'starter' is actually a lighting contactor which can be used for = motor starting IF separate overload protection is provided. From the sounds = of it, that is not the case. Would suggest upgrading to a Square D Class 8536 type S = motor starter. Some preliminary information will be needed before proceeding.   From where will you be controlling the motor starter, ie at the blower or = at the console ? If at the blower, do you already have a "start / stop" = switch and what voltage is it rated for ? If at the console, what voltage is the = "start / stop" switch switching... 230v or a lower voltage (via a control transformer & relay) = ?     Bob Bass          
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Orgaflex and wood flanges From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:19:06 EST     In a message dated 12/12/01 12:22:43 AM, Jess4203@aol.com writes:   >Hi David and Randall and all: > >Thanks for the info on the wooden flanges. What is villedon and where >would >I get it?   It is essentially a leather substitute and the only place I know to get it =   unfortunately is Laukhuff in Germany! It's surprisingly not expensive, it comes in sheets about 3'x4' I guess, I =   bought a sheet at work and it was something like $12 It is a soft, supple material that comes in at least 3 different = thicknesses, 1mm, 2mm and 3mm and this is all we use for all gasketing purposes in windlines, trunks, bungboards, toeboards etc. It is stable, doesn't = crumble crack etc and seals extremely well. It seems to have a fabric layer inside = as well.     >Would the cork that David suggests do as well to gasket these >flanges?   Can yes and prolly easier for you to obtain, but we don't use cork ever, unless it's for a restoration where it had it originally and the organ is historic in nature.   David, I assume that the aluminum slide goes between the block >and the cork and is adjusted by loosening the screws on the block, is = that >right? No, it goes under the block between the block and the chest and yes the = hold down screws hold the block on as well as adjust how firmly the metal slide =   gate is held in. We use galvanized sheet metal and roll the one edge so it's like a handle, =   and use four screws in the block, one in each corner- more evenly held = down that way.   > >Randall, this is a small house organ and the 16 foot C Bourdon is just >4.75 >wide by 5.75 deep, so the OD's for the tubing are 1.125 to 0.5 inches.   The hose comes in sizes close to that as; 1/2", 1", 1-1/4" Price runs about $1.05/' 50 foot coil, $1.48'/25' coil $1.68'/25' coil respectively.   Says add 15% to above for cut lengths. Not sure if you have to buy the coil or if they will sell 5 and 6' long pieces, my guess is you buy the coil or they may have some short pieces = they can sell if you only need a few.   > Can >someone quote an approximate price on those per foot? I will possibly >need flexible tubing in a few spots, but I could go with PVC also if the =   price >is a whole lot better.   I would use pvc as much as possible and use the flex for the short runs = from the pvc to the pipes as needed rather than say, running 15' long pieces to =   every pipe from the chest!   Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Spencer Blower & switch & overhaul From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:28:16 EST     In a message dated 12/12/01 12:32:33 AM, Jess4203@aol.com writes:   >Hi gang: > >On the subject of blowers, I looked at mine and it is a Spencer Orgoblo, >Ser. ># 22925, rated at 4" wind. The motor is a Century single phase rated for >7.6 amps at 110 volts.   Mine is rated on the plate at 5" but puts out 7-1/2"     >Unfortunately, there is no switch or other goodies >on the motor,   Don't believe there would be, these are not Sears Craftsman motors ;)   >the wiring has been cut and rewired for 110 with a new pigtail. > What would I need in the way of a motor starter switch and "heaters"?   Cut? is the wire long enough to connect?     >I am planning to remove and examine the motor bearings and regrease them. > I assume I will have to loosen the four screws that hold the motor down = and >then remove the front (fan end) of the sheet metal housing and then = remove >the fans from the shaft by loosening the set screws on these. I suppose >that then the motor will come off the back of the assembly and I will be =   able >to get to the bearings and get them loose. Am I missing something here? =     Don't suppose a lot before you get into it! the 10HP orgoblo for the LA cathedral came apart pretty easy, but my 2 HP unit when it was at the = church was different, for one thing when I took the cover plate of the drum there =   were two aluminum "Brackets" that hold the fans in on the shaft, the fan blades have NO set screws it is the aluminum brackets that do the work, = they also have rubber bumpers on them and ride between the blades.   I have a photo i can upload later. The brackets came off easy, the fans were slightly rusted to the shaft = enough I couldn't free them, couldn't pry or pull, I wound up blocking the motor =   from turning and using "unscrewing" motions on the fan disks was able to loosen them so they came off.   The blades must go back on exactly the same way, including aligning the = score or marks on them with the score or marks on the shaft. With the blades off the motor can be removed.   My motor was 290 pounds and has a grease cup and an oil reservoir     >Can I >remove the front bearing or will I be unable to slip it off the shaft? > Will >it have to be cleaned in place? Can I use a rag and some gas to get the >bearing clean before regreasing?     DONT EVER use gas!!!!!!!!!!!!! use a degreaser or if you must maybe = mineral spirits, I would avoid water.                 Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: Addenda: More on Heaters and Starter Definitions From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:38:39 EST     In a message dated 12/12/01 4:46:45 AM, rpbass@earthlink.net writes:   >Hi Randall, > > If you wish to stay with the Square D product, maybe I can assist you >in selecting the correct parts and part numbers.   Would be appreciated, then I can compare too, I like Square D as well.   > Your 'starter' is actually a lighting contactor which can be used for >motor starting IF separate overload protection is provided. > From the sounds of it, that is >not the case.   It does have two coils inside the contacts that are covered with ceramic covers, so they must be the heaters. It is I would guess maybe from the = 60s or 70s, the metal frame the main coil pulls in seems to have been welded = on at some point as though it cracked.     >Would suggest upgrading to a Square D Class 8536 type >S motor starter.   The one I have is class 8502 but keep in mind this was not the one that = went with the current blower, the one that came with this blower is a Cutler Hammer totally exposed bare bones contactor, no heaters and dates from = 1927 That was why I used the 8502, it has a metal box with a latching door.   > Some preliminary information will be needed before proceeding.   >From where will you be controlling the motor starter, ie at the blower >or at the console ?   The console upstairs   >If at the blower, do you already have a "start / stop" switch >and what voltage is it rated for ?   No switch other than the 30 amp safety disconnect.   >If at the console, what voltage is the "start >/ stop" switch >switching... 230v or a lower voltage (via a control transformer & = relay) >?   It is 600 volt max, one of the typical grey colored Cutler Hammer push red =   button start, push black button stop, motor switches, i t doesn't show = the amps offhand that I saw but was used under the original console to power this blower. I am using it on the 120V activation lug circuit in the starter, there is = no transformer.   > >Bob Bass > >   Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Orgaflex and wood flanges From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:55:10 EST   The cardboard tubing is used on VW's and is sold in 1 meter lengths. The two sizes available are, 2 1/16 OD X 1 15/16 ID I could not find a = scrap of the smaller size but I thing it is around an inch. I made a 12 note off set for the 8' great prin. and used the big stuff. I made flanges out of Poplar cut the hole and glued the hose to the wood = flange and used scrap leather for gaskets. The cardboard tube does get dented so mount it carefully. It is easier and quicker then using tin lines, at least on smaller runs.   Dennis    
(back) Subject: Primer on Orgaflex From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:08:49 -0600   Pipewheezr@aol.com wrote: > The cardboard tubing is used on VW's and is sold in 1 meter lengths. > The two sizes available are, 2 1/16 OD X 1 15/16 ID I could not find a = scrap > of the smaller size but I thing it is around an inch.   OK, time for me to give a "primer" on Orgaflex. Most of the time it is known to organbuilders by its acronym: PAP (meaning: Paper-Aluminum-Paper) Flex, which describes its construction.   It is made by the Clevaflex Company http://www.clevaflex.com in Cleveland, OH, and can be produced in unlimited lengths. As a matter of convenience in transportation and handling, it is usually shipped in either 25'coils for the smaller sizes or 10' pieces for the larger sizes.   The way it is constructed is that it is wound around a steel mandrel similarly to wrapping an organ cable with electrical tape, except that it is done in such a way that the three layers (paper, aluminum, paper) are then extruded off the mandrel and then finally cut. Obviously, the company sets up "runs" of the various sizes, as it takes some set-up time to put in the appropriate mandrel and then adjust the "Bobbins" which hold the materials to properly weave and crimp the materials together.   I witnessed the production of this some 20 years ago, in that I visited the Clevaflex Company to pick up a rather large stock order of it. The volume that the entire Organbuilding Industry does compared to, say Automotive (the VW Example above) or HVAC is a joke, to the point where the company has to be "induced" to produce any at all by large stock orders. The only two places which can justify a large enough order is OSI and Tracker Tool Supply of Taunton, MA, which also stocks (and even has different sizes than OSI does!) the material.   Part of the cost has to do, obviously, with the fact that such large quantities have to be purchased at one time that there is a good bit of capital tied-up for a great length of time between purchase and sale, so there is some financing cost to that.   Clevaflex also produces a host of different "wraps" (core make-ups), including high-temperature varieties which one will see under the hood of the car between the heat shield on the engine and the air cleaner.   As others have alluded-to: it is great for short-distance runs between pipes and Toeboards on facade situations or some winding requirements. We use it primarily for Tremulant Driver pneumatics on Schwimmer chests since it really doesn't matter in that application if there is a lot of "wind shake". Actually: that is an advantage.   Faithfully,   Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Primer on Orgaflex From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:26:50 EST     In a message dated 12/12/01 11:06:29 AM, arpschneider@starband.net writes:     >OK, time for me to give a "primer" on Orgaflex. Most of the time it is >known to organbuilders by its acronym: PAP (meaning: >Paper-Aluminum-Paper) Flex, which describes its construction.   >It is made by the Clevaflex Company http://www.clevaflex.com in   Ahhh so THAT's where the stuff actually originates. Though they make a lot = of stuff in-houseI didn't think OSI made their own.   >Automotive (the VW Example above) or HVAC is a joke, to the point where >the company has to be "induced" to produce any at all by large stock >orders.   Makes perfect sense for most everything not generally widely used.   The only two places which can justify a large enough order is >OSI and Tracker Tool Supply of Taunton, MA, which also stocks (and even >has different sizes than OSI does!) the material.   Never heard of the latter, I don't think my boss buys from them they seem = to always go to Laukhuff in Germany for almost everything from tools to = Villidon and pay the huge shipping costs.     >As others have alluded-to: it is great for short-distance runs between >pipes and Toeboards on facade situations or some winding requirements.   Especially where there may be movement or where alignment between a = windline and the chest is bad or the line has to wind it's way through some odd = spot. I have such an odd spot in my basement next to the stairs, the 4" line = could not go the best way because to do so would have meant a section below the header joist at the foot of the stairs and I have to duck for that as it = is. I wound up chopping a small hole in the block wall by the stairs and = running the PVC to that and then flex through the hole into the back of a plenum which as mentioned before has 3 3" flex hoses coming out it to 3 small = offset chests above it.   Was the only place I could fit those chests for pedal bourdon pipes 13-32 =   and they are on a stepped platform that is over the basement stairs, and opens into the room. A built-in china hutch once was where this all is = now, so no cutting out walls to do it. The chests are on 3 stepped platforms because this all had to leave headroom under it for the stairs to the basement.       Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: RE: painted pipes From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:11:46 -0600     Greetings List   A lot of the pipes from the organ I just recently purchased are painted. I = have two 8ft open diapasons which used to be facade pipes. These are = painted gold. The gold paint has got to go. The big 16 ft bourdon pipes = are also painted a dull brown color. I have never liked painted wood = pipes. I greatly prefer the look of natural wood organ pipes . Anyone have any = special tips to offer about removing paint from wood and metal pipes? is = it OK to use plain old paint remover ?   Thanks Steve Pitts -  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Orgaflex and wood flanges From: "Berley Antoine Firmin II" <FIRMAN1@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:30:33 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0031_01C18321.F099B850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Hi, Do any you recall the use of "kissing" gaskets? I used them successfully on a home installation of an organ and also an = =3D Orchestrelle, a player reed organ. They consist of two doughnut-shaped rings of leather glued only on =3D their perimeters to openings on wood. Under pressure, when they are =3D brought together, the air forces a seal (!).There are no screws, just =3D physical contact. Of course, the parts must be brought together and stay = =3D near each other. BAFII   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0031_01C18321.F099B850 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Do any you recall the use of = "kissing"=3D20 gaskets?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I used them successfully on a home = =3D installation of=3D20 an organ and also an Orchestrelle, a player reed organ.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; They consist of = two=3D20 doughnut-shaped rings of leather glued only on their perimeters to =3D openings on=3D20 wood. Under pressure, when they are brought together, the air forces a =3D seal=3D20 (!).There are no screws, just physical contact. Of course, the parts =3D must be=3D20 brought together and stay near each other.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>BAFII</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0031_01C18321.F099B850--      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: painted pipes From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:01:48 EST     >A lot of the pipes from the organ I just recently purchased are painted. >I have two 8ft open diapasons which used to be facade pipes. These are >painted gold. The gold paint has got to go. The big 16 ft bourdon pipes   >greatly prefer the look of natural wood organ pipes . Anyone have any = special >tips to offer about removing paint from wood and metal pipes?   Oh boy!!! are you in for a real treat!!!! My zinc facade pipes were also painted gold, what an idiotic paint that is =   since it turns dull and looks well... like cheap spray paint.   >is it OK >to use plain old paint remover ?   You sure you really want to mess with this project? The pipes don't look = like much but surface wise a 6" diameter pipe can have a strip about 18" by = it's length worth of paint. I found lacquer thinner removed the gold paint and the like off mine but paint remover works. The only thing is under the paint you will find dirty looking metal, = probably zinc and then what do you plan to do with the pipe then? If they are zinc = and you want to spend a lot of work and time you could clean and polish them = up but the work and time isn't really worth it. I might suggest repainting and stenciling them if they are facade pipes. I =   cleaned mine to bare metal with 320 grit sandpaper on an air sander, = filled the dents that were unreachable with a mandrel, primed with several coats = of primer, painted them with two coats of a flat base paint, and then made stencils. I sprayed the flat base blue color of the stencil designs, the rest was = hand painted and then the pipes were sprayed with a clear sealer   Thankfully there were only 5 pipes, the others were wood melodias and = stopped diapasons from an 1898 organ.   Obviously if you don't intend to repaint them, sanding with an air sander = and filling dents with tuff carve is not what you will want to do!                 Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/