DIYAPASON-L Digest #462 - Saturday, December 15, 2001
 
Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #461 - 12/14/01
  by <Jess4203@aol.com>
Handling lead pipes
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Concerns about blowing lead pipes
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Removing paint from painted pipes
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Relay Connections
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #461 - 12/14/01
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Concerns about blowing lead pipes
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Relay Connections
  by "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com>
Re: NEC Article 650
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Further on NEC Article 650
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #461 - 12/14/01 From: <Jess4203@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:51:01 EST     --part1_c6.36b2beb.294c3ec5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/14/01 9:30:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, %Randall = writes:   > I can really say that you cannot learn surgery nor the fine art of = voicing > from a book or a video tape! > Hi listers:   Believe it or not, I have several pipes which didn't speak at all when I = got them and I have bent ears or opened windways or moved bent lips to get = them to speak, which they do now with alacrity. I apologize if I have transgressed some unwritten rule by TOUCHING the pipes, but it was pretty obvious what was wrong and the TOUCHING I did was pretty reversible and = did actually result in an improvement and aforesaid pipes do now actually = speak. Being a consenting adult and aware of the risks involved I thought it was = OK to TOUCH the pipes, but if such is not the case, please inform me before = I am arrested. . .   I don't plan to go beyond my expertise level in voicing, but I am = interested in deciding what to do with my arched mouth, high cutup Bourdons, among = other things and I had hoped that the Monette book/books might help me figure = out what to do. It seems to me that someone on this list (?) lowered cutup on =   such as these with metal screwed to the lips. Aside from the caveat = "don't touch", does anybody have any experience with these books?   Thanks for the warning, Randall, I will try to use appropriate cautions.   Regards, Roy Kersey     --part1_c6.36b2beb.294c3ec5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/14/01 9:30:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, %Randall writes: <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I can really say = that you cannot learn surgery nor the fine art of voicing <BR>from a book or a video tape! <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>Hi listers: <BR> <BR>Believe it or not, I have several pipes which didn't speak at all when = I got them and I have bent ears or opened windways or moved bent lips to = get them to speak, which they do now with alacrity. &nbsp;I apologize if I = have transgressed some unwritten rule by TOUCHING the pipes, but it was = pretty obvious what was wrong and the TOUCHING I did was pretty reversible = and did actually result in an improvement and aforesaid pipes do now = actually speak. &nbsp;Being a consenting adult and aware of the risks = involved I thought it was OK to TOUCH &nbsp;the pipes, but if such is not = the case, please inform me before I am arrested. . . <BR> <BR>I don't plan to go beyond my expertise level in voicing, but I am = interested in deciding what to do with my arched mouth, high cutup = Bourdons, among other things and I had hoped that the Monette book/books = might help me figure out what to do. &nbsp;It seems to me that someone on = this list (?) lowered cutup on such as these with metal screwed to the = lips. &nbsp;Aside from the caveat "don't touch", does anybody have any = experience with these books? <BR> <BR>Thanks for the warning, Randall, I will try to use appropriate = cautions. <BR> <BR>Regards, <BR>Roy Kersey <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_c6.36b2beb.294c3ec5_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Handling lead pipes From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:50:47 -0600   STEVE PITTS wrote: > question for the list members: > do organ builders and other folks that handle lead organ pipes a lot = wear gloves, I.E., is it generally advisable to do so?   I wear gloves and make my employees wear gloves, but that is more because we are concerned about the oils in the skin getting into the surface of the pipe metal and causing problems with appearance.   There is nothing much more unsightly in a quality built pipe organ then metal pipes that have fingerprints all over them that have collected dirt after a number of years. And, it is nearly impossible to remove!   With respect to concerns about getting pipe metal (specifically: lead) into one's skin: we use a special granulated heavy metal hand cleaner similar in concept to "GOJO" called "D-LEAD" which everyone washes their hands with after handling pipes; particularly before they eat lunch or go home for the day. It's sold directly by a company in Milwaukee, WI, but their name does not come to ready mind. You obviously won't find this kind of product at your local Wal-Mart.   Faithfully,   Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: Concerns about blowing lead pipes From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:58:56 -0600   Kelvin Smith wrote: > I never worry about handling lead pipes and I blow them all the time. I > never knew anyone who worried about it and never heard of anyone that = got > sick from it. Kelvin and others:   Generally speaking, if an organ pipe is newly-washed or newly-made the risk of lead poisoning from handling or blowing lead pipes is relatively small.   However, I would be greatly concerned about going into an older organ and picking up a pipe and blowing it. One major concern is that when metal pipes sit on Toeboards, there is a chemical reaction that takes place between the wood and the pipe metal which forms a toxic material called "Sugar of Lead". This is poisonous.   By and large, this is obviated by the use of burning irons to char the wood where the pipes sit, so that the pipe stands on a black burned surface, rather than on raw wood. Lacquering or other finishing won't really make a difference, because the finishing film is usually broken by the pipe being picked up and set back down numerous times during the course of Tonal Finishing and other incidental handling over the years.   So a general rule of thumb would be if the pipe is new or newly washed, you're probably O.K., but otherwise, I would avoid mouth contact with the pipe. In any event, always wash your hands after handling pipes; particularly before smoking or eating.   Faithfully, Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: Removing paint from painted pipes From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:02:37 -0600   STEVE PITTS wrote: > Indeed it is a daunting task removing the paint from large ranks of = pipes <snip> I have found so far that its pretty quick to get the paint = off of the metal pipes. The big wooden pipes take forever to get the paint = off.   Try using what is called "Aircraft Coating Remover", which is available from Automotive Paint Supply Stores. It's pretty nasty stuff when compared to the "garden variety" of paint strippers available from paint stores and hardwares, but it is amazingly effective. The paint just wrinkles up and can be easily hosed off. Try to avoid the water on wood pipes, however. You'll have to "damp mop" them in order to remove the paint and the remover, but you obviously don't want to hose a raw organ pipe unless you wish to risk it coming apart due to the water. Most of the older pipes were built with hide glue and pegs.   Faithfully, Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: Relay Connections From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:03:03 -0600   Paul Soulek wrote: > My 4-H project this year is...building an organ! <snip> and had a = question. Since I don't know much about this,   > How do I connect the chest magnets (with 2 wires coming out) up with the > relay (I will be getting an Artisan) and the rectifier (that whole > connection-chain thing)? I'm clueless as to how this all gets connected.     > Anyone have any other tips as I start out on my "quest"?   First place to start: Go online to http://www.petersonemp.com and find their link to the National Electric Code Article 650, which covers pipe organs. Whatever you do needs to conform to that article.   It's not a "how to do it" manual, but will give you guidelines as to materials and the importance of fusing.   Generally, one wire from the chest magnet is wired to the relay via the 100 wire cable you spoke about. The other wire is connected to a "common" or "return". Note that this should be at least #14 gauge. It then goes to the rectifier and, depending on the polarity of the solid state relay, connects to the (+) or (-) terminal.   The relay probably has connections for both sides to the Rectifier, but your installation instruction should tell you the polarity of the system and what is expected for the return. Generally, it's (-) with Peterson systems. I don't know about Artisan but it should be the same.   It is important to observe polarity in organ wiring with solid state systems. The least that can happen is that it won't work, and the worst is irreparable damage, requiring expensive replacement of damaged components!   Good luck with your 4-H Project! Seems to me you'll need a bit more time than the typical 4-H project would allow!   Faithfully,   Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #461 - 12/14/01 From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:25:46 EST     In a message dated 12/14/01 11:51:51 PM, Jess4203@aol.com writes:   >ctually result in an improvement and aforesaid pipes do now actually = speak. > >Being a consenting adult and aware of the risks involved I thought it was >OK >to TOUCH the pipes, but if such is not the case, please inform me before >I >am arrested. . .   Sarcasm aside, no one said you can't "touch" pipes, just don't think a = person can just begin the fine art of revoicing pipes by reading a book. Just as one can't learn driving a tractor trailer in New Yok city traffic from a book, if you start CUTTING upper lips, filing away metal or taking = a soldering iron to spotted metal pipes and go too far, or do something = wrong, the pipe is essentially ruined.   What you described is pipe repair not voicing, bending ears back and the = like is not the same as taking a knife and cuttting the upper lip, opening the windway, or nicking the languid.     Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Concerns about blowing lead pipes From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:31:53 EST     In a message dated 12/15/01 6:55:55 AM, arpschneider@starband.net writes:   >Kelvin Smith wrote: > >> I never worry about handling lead pipes and I blow them all the time. >I >> never knew anyone who worried about it and never heard of anyone that >got >> sick from it.   >However, I would be greatly concerned about going into an older organ >and picking up a pipe and blowing it. One major concern is that when >metal pipes sit on Toeboards, there is a chemical reaction that takes >place between the wood and the pipe metal which forms a toxic material >called "Sugar of Lead". This is poisonous.   Sure is, and I know Bill Ayres was telling me about the lead oxide power, that whitish stuff is deadly to inhale or swallow, lead is less likely to = be absorbed thru the skin but can get on the skin and consumed or the powder inhaled. I see folks at work blowing into lead pipes all the time with their bare lips, even those sitting in pipe trays in storage where no doubt dust, = dirt mice, rats and who knows what else have been wandering over... I've seen = the droppings.   When Ive blown air into a pipe Ive always cupped the foot in my hand and = blow through my fist into it, that way your lips never touch the metal.     >So a general rule of thumb would be if the pipe is new or newly washed, >you're probably O.K., but otherwise, I would avoid mouth contact with >the pipe. In any event, always wash your hands after handling pipes; >particularly before smoking or eating.   I handle my pipes with gloves too, because Ive seen the fingerprints and = they are murder to get off.   Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Relay Connections From: "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:06:04 -0600   The Schneider Family wrote: > > First place to start: Go online to http://www.petersonemp.com and find > their link to the National Electric Code Article 650, which covers pipe > organs. Whatever you do needs to conform to that article.   I didn't see it, and an internet search turned up nothing. Now what? :-)   > Good luck with your 4-H Project! Seems to me you'll need a bit more > time than the typical 4-H project would allow!   Ohhhhhh yes. I've got a full load now...but it will be fun, and, in the end, rewarding as well.   Thanks! Paul   _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com    
(back) Subject: Re: NEC Article 650 From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:37:56 -0600   Ed Steltzer wrote: > Thank you for your quite helpful tips re safe wiring of pipe organs. > = I tried to access the link you suggested, and cannot find it - any help?   Dear all,   It used to be there. Really!   I'll have to contact Peterson on Monday and see if it got moved or discontinued. Meanwhile, I'm going to try to see if I can locate it online with the NFPA. Since it would cut into their Codebooks sales, I doubt it. It may be also that NFPA made Peterson pull it off-line.   I dunno, but I'll find out!   Faithfully, Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: Further on NEC Article 650 From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:49:56 -0600   Paul Soulek wrote: > I didn't see it, and an internet search turned up nothing. Now what? For those who are not financially challenged: the NEC is online, but it requires a subscription, which is something on the order of $1,100.00 annually!   <GASP!!>   You can order a complete Codebook, however, for around $50.00, but it covers ALL electrical installations and not just pipe organs.   http://www.nfpa.org/Home/index.asp Just follow the link for "Electrical" under the "Online Catalog" link   At one point, Peterson offered, with permission from NFPA, reprints of the NEC. Check with them by following their EMAIL link.   Faithfully,   Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL