DIYAPASON-L Digest #252 - Friday, February 2, 2001
 
Re: Doing Pneumatics NO PVC-E ! ! !
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: leather
  by "Berley A. Firmin II" <Firman1@prodigy.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Doing Pneumatics NO PVC-E ! ! !
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  RE: leather
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: leather
  by "Berley A. Firmin II" <Firman1@prodigy.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  leather
  by "Berley A. Firmin II" <Firman1@prodigy.net>
AIO Address?
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  RE: leather
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs] AIO Address?
  by "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  AIO Address?
  by "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  AIO Address?
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE:
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  AIO Address?
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  AIO Address?
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Doing Pneumatics
  by <Mohman@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: leather
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
RE: [Residence Organs]  RE:
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  Re: Doing Pneumatics
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
blower lubrication
  by "DanielW Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  blower lubrication
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Fw: [Residence Organs]  blower lubrication
  by "Jimmy" <jrbaird@erols.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Doing Pneumatics NO PVC-E ! ! ! From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 02:00:22 EST   Among the easiest jobs in the pipe organ industry is doing pnuematics but there are some really wrong ways to do it. Here is the number one rule:   1) NEVER use PVC-E, white glue, or any caesin based glue. The next = rebuilder will just have to junk the chest. Hot hide glue, liquid hide glue, or = fish glue will come off the next time around whereas the other glues do not. I = am burning chests to keep warm right now that were redone in 1978 by some amatuer using a white glue.   For book pneumatics the process outlined by Veague is fine.   For pouches the boards must be cleaned of all old glue and leather. The = old pouch cups should be lightly sanded around the edge to soften the lip. = The pouch leathers should be precut with the valve material preglued and centered. For beginners a slow drying fish glue may be used to coat wood surrounding the pouch cup but it takes hours to dry and must be clamped = the whole time to compress the spring unless it is the type of pouch where the =   spring is inserted later from underneath. Using a finger the pouch needs = to be gently cupped to have give needed for collapse. The average organ = builder makes his own tools and a dishing tool may be made out of wood or steel to =   press the pouch down to give it the correct looseness. All that is needed = is for the pouch to be able to pull down into the pouch cup and extend up to = the toe board. Any more is a waste and any less is a cipher or starved pipe. = It may sound like it is critical but it is not. Slop is a non-technical term =   that best describes what you need to be able to judge when dishing the = pouch. Do a pouch then if possible put the pouch rail back into place to see if = the valve closes the hole with just a little slack (slop) left.   Just remember RULE #1 - Natural Glues always and white glues NEVER.   Best of luck,   Al Sefl   p.s. I wanted to say something about tuning but am very very busy so just =   had time to post this when I saw the words hated by professional organ builders - PVC-E ! !  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: leather From: "Berley A. Firmin II" <Firman1@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 06:04:29 -0600   Hello list, I would suggest using leather preservative from OSI to ensure that the leather last longer than just a few years. Sealing the leather pouches is very important, too, using a 50/50 rubber cement and naphtha solution, = then talcing. Mr. Berley Antoine Firmin II Bayou La Combe, Louisiana    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Doing Pneumatics NO PVC-E ! ! ! From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:06:28 -0500   I agree that Elmer's white glue is a horror, but I've removed pneumatics = by applying alcohol to the glue joint. I use blotter paper gaskets between = the pneumatic and chest and removal is easy and clean with PVC-E glue. A light sanding on both, and it's good as new.   On pouches, I need to make (heh-heh) a vacuum pouch-holder disher, as sometimes aligning pouches by hand can be difficult. It would have to be = cut to pouch-well diameter size with a shoulder, so the pouch is exactly centered. I've goofed some pouches in the past doing it by hand and is = very frustrating: I'm talking player pianos here. On pouch springs, Reuter has the springs that fit-in later and are held in by a thick paper-punching cover.   Ideally, hot glue is best when doing pouch-work: long set-up time to work pouches and easy to remove later. I've done both PVC-E and hot glue.   Rick    
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] RE: leather From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:10:34 -0500   Aeolean did the 'egg-white' trick on their pouches, and I've applied it = too to my pouch-work in the past. A little time consuming, but the egg seals = the pouches and an application of talc later softens the leather for years to come. I've not tried the rubber cement/naptha thing.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: Berley A. Firmin II <Firman1@prodigy.net> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: leather     > Hello list, > I would suggest using leather preservative from OSI to ensure that the > leather last longer than just a few years. Sealing the leather pouches = is > very important, too, using a 50/50 rubber cement and naphtha solution, then > talcing. > Mr. Berley Antoine Firmin II > Bayou La Combe, Louisiana > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: leather From: "Berley A. Firmin II" <Firman1@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 06:25:24 -0600   I have also tried using Dow-Corning 111 pure silicon grease to seal = pouches. There is a great reference book called Orchestrion Builders Manual and Pneumatic Handbook, by Craig Brougher that details much information about leather, sealing and preserving leather, and using hot hide glue. I would recommend it for all. If you would like his address, just ask. (Nothing in it for me!) BAF II    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] leather From: "Berley A. Firmin II" <Firman1@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 06:28:14 -0600   Oh, I forgot to mention: In the Brougher book, he details construction techniques of about five kinds of pipe chests: they are small for use in Orchestrions, but the info can be used for making larger ones. BAF II    
(back) Subject: AIO Address? From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:40:34 -0500   Anybody know if the AIO has a websight or know how to contact them? Apparently there are some videos of the conventions available from them.   Thanks, Eric  
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] RE: leather From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:43:25 -0500   I also have the book -two copies, in fact: one I had turned into a spiral bench-top manual -for future projects. Excellent book that I purchased = thru Player Piano Company of Wichita, Kansas.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: Berley A. Firmin II <Firman1@prodigy.net> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: leather     > I have also tried using Dow-Corning 111 pure silicon grease to seal pouches. > There is a great reference book called Orchestrion Builders Manual and > Pneumatic Handbook, by Craig Brougher that details much information = about > leather, sealing and preserving leather, and using hot hide glue. I = would > recommend it for all. If you would like his address, just ask. (Nothing = in > it for me!) > BAF II > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] AIO Address? From: "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:59:21   Eric, AIO videotape series can be found at http://www.pipeorgan.org/tapes/tapeindex.html Homer   >From: Eric Sagmuller <ess4@psu.edu> >Reply-To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >Subject: [Residence Organs] AIO Address? >Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:40:34 -0500 > >Anybody know if the AIO has a websight or know how to contact them? >Apparently there are some videos of the conventions available from >them. > >Thanks, >Eric > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >   _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] AIO Address? From: "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 07:48:37 -0800       Eric Sagmuller wrote: > > Anybody know if the AIO has a websight or know how to contact them? > Apparently there are some videos of the conventions available from > them. www.pipeorgan.org   You can also get their videos through the OHS:   www.ohscatalog.com  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] AIO Address? From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:03:42 -0600   >Anybody know if the AIO has a websight or know how to contact them? >Apparently there are some videos of the conventions available from >them.   The Web Address is: http://www.pipeorgan.org   Besides the videos, you might check out the coming convention this October in Boston   David (also AIO Webmaster <G>)  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 08:15:58 -0500   Regarding Wurli book Pneumatics, I would add to get a copy of the instructions for building a simple fixture to do these babies. It is in = the ATOS shop notes. It makes it even easier and FASTER!   John V         >Leathering book pneumatics: > > I've done the primaries and secondaries on my WurliTzer and have also >done many player pianos. > Type leather: Tan Pouch - the thinest possible, as speed is important. > Measure the old pneumatics first to get full open span, and cut your = new >leather into measured width-strips and add on enough length for complete >hinge wrap-around. > Hinge the appropriate pneumatic ends with twill tape or duck cloth = from >WallyWorld. Carefully run a bead of PVC-E glue or hide glue along one = adge >of the pneumatic and carefully lay it on the leather strip making sure to >get the full span. MAKE SURE the leather is flat and smooth with no >wrinkles. Glue the front and other side and wrap leather around, = smoothening >out wrinkles. Pull the leather just a little taut -not too much. Set each >releathered pneumatic aside and go on to the next. Trim excess leather = with >shears. > >That's it in a nutshell, and with practice, the job can be done rather >quickly. Have plenty of coffee brewing on the stove and turn on your >favourite soap operas or talk shows to help while-away the time as you >releather.      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] AIO Address? From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:21:11 -0500   Thanks guys for the prompt info. ! It would be neat to see the convention just once at least. About a 9 hour drive for me.   Eric Sagmuller         At 7:03 AM -0600 2/2/01, David Scribner wrote: >>Anybody know if the AIO has a websight or know how to contact them? >>Apparently there are some videos of the conventions available from >>them. > >The Web Address is: http://www.pipeorgan.org > >Besides the videos, you might check out the coming convention this >October in Boston    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] AIO Address? From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:37:55 -0600   >Thanks guys for the prompt info. ! It would be neat to see the >convention just once at least. About a 9 hour drive for me.   Eric and everyone else.   This AIO Convention is going to be a "neat" one with visits to 4 different builders shops, hearing some top-notch recitalists demonstrating some very wonderful and historic organs including Tom Murray at Immaculate Conception - the two go together! It is also a chance to meeting people form the various supply companies and see what they have to offer. Plus that chance to meet organbuilders in a very friendly and relaxed setting.   Although the program is aimed at professional organbuilders we do welcome non-members and are always glad to have those interested in organbuilding join us.   More information about the convention, including the registration form, will be put on the Web Site as I receive it.   David  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Doing Pneumatics From: <Mohman@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:41:51 EST     --part1_9c.b4f674d.27ac212f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Sorry for the stiff words here! Absolutely NO PVC-E adhesives in = pneumatic work. MAN, if you were around in the years of Perflex, you would know the =   problem. PVC-E seals the wood pore and can never be removed. The only = way to fix a pneumatic after the use of such glues is to throw it away and = make a new one.   The "real" builders use hot glue and hot glue only on pneumatics.   Mike Ohman   --part1_9c.b4f674d.27ac212f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D3>Sorry for the stiff words here! &nbsp;Absolutely NO PVC-E = adhesives in pneumatic <BR>work. &nbsp;MAN, if you were around in the years of Perflex, you would = know the <BR>problem. &nbsp;PVC-E seals the wood pore and can never be removed. = &nbsp;The only way <BR>to fix a pneumatic after the use of such glues is to throw it away and = make a <BR>new one. &nbsp; <BR> <BR>The "real" builders use hot glue and hot glue only on pneumatics. <BR> <BR>Mike Ohman</FONT></HTML>   --part1_9c.b4f674d.27ac212f_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: leather From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:01:53 EST     --part1_93.65d5cfe.27ac5e21_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hello all, I was taught to seal the pouches with the 50/50 cement, while = the pouch is sucked down, to pull the glue into the leather. I used an old = reed organ vacuum pump. Have a good weekend Dennis   --part1_93.65d5cfe.27ac5e21_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hello all, I was taught = to seal the pouches with the 50/50 cement, while the <BR>pouch is sucked down, to pull the glue into the leather. I used an old = reed <BR>organ vacuum pump. <BR>Have a good weekend <BR>Dennis</FONT></HTML>   --part1_93.65d5cfe.27ac5e21_boundary--  
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] RE: From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:10:02 -0600   Where would I find the ATOS shop notes..?   > -----Original Message----- > From: John Vanderlee [SMTP:jovanderlee@vassar.edu] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 7:16 AM > To: Residence Organ List > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: > > Regarding Wurli book Pneumatics, I would add to get a copy of the > instructions for building a simple fixture to do these babies. It is in > the > ATOS shop notes. It makes it even easier and FASTER! > > John V > > > > > >Leathering book pneumatics: > > > > I've done the primaries and secondaries on my WurliTzer and have = also > >done many player pianos. > > Type leather: Tan Pouch - the thinest possible, as speed is = important. > > Measure the old pneumatics first to get full open span, and cut your > new > >leather into measured width-strips and add on enough length for = complete > >hinge wrap-around. > > Hinge the appropriate pneumatic ends with twill tape or duck cloth > from > >WallyWorld. Carefully run a bead of PVC-E glue or hide glue along one > adge > >of the pneumatic and carefully lay it on the leather strip making sure = to > >get the full span. MAKE SURE the leather is flat and smooth with no > >wrinkles. Glue the front and other side and wrap leather around, > smoothening > >out wrinkles. Pull the leather just a little taut -not too much. Set = each > >releathered pneumatic aside and go on to the next. Trim excess leather > with > >shears. > > > >That's it in a nutshell, and with practice, the job can be done rather > >quickly. Have plenty of coffee brewing on the stove and turn on your > >favourite soap operas or talk shows to help while-away the time as you > >releather. > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] Re: Doing Pneumatics From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:25:59 -0500   I WAS around in the Perflex years and even saw the disintegrating results = of what was origionally a US Army product in the Nam years. Perflex was too good to be true, and it proved it.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Mohman@aol.com> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Doing Pneumatics     > Sorry for the stiff words here! Absolutely NO PVC-E adhesives in pneumatic > work. MAN, if you were around in the years of Perflex, you would know = the > problem. PVC-E seals the wood pore and can never be removed. The only way > to fix a pneumatic after the use of such glues is to throw it away and make a > new one. > > The "real" builders use hot glue and hot glue only on pneumatics. > > Mike Ohman >    
(back) Subject: blower lubrication From: "DanielW Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:20:45 -0400   What Kind of oil should I use to oil my 1 hp Century Motor of my 1950s = era Casavant Blower   would Motor oil or a car like 10 W 30 be ok??? Danielwh '2000' E. Power Biggs Fellow    
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] blower lubrication From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:50:17 -0500   I oil my 3hp Century with 10w30. Works fine.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: DanielW Hopkins <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:20 PM Subject: [Residence Organs] blower lubrication     > What Kind of oil should I use to oil my 1 hp Century Motor of my = 1950s era > Casavant Blower > > would Motor oil or a car like 10 W 30 be ok??? > Danielwh > '2000' E. Power Biggs Fellow > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: [Residence Organs] blower lubrication From: "Jimmy" <jrbaird@erols.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 00:05:38 -0500   I use straight 30 weight in all my old 'green box' blowers and Spencer blowers.   Jimmy