DIYAPASON-L Digest #268 - Monday, February 26, 2001
 
RE: [Residence Organs]  Shipping Containers for Organ Storage???
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
Re: Shipping Containers for Organ Storage???
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
[Residence Organs]  Re: Shipping Containers for Organ	Storage???
  by "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us>
Re: R=F6hr Fl=F6te (was16' open to 32 ' stopped)
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
[Residence Organs]  Re:R=F6hr Fl=F6te ( was16' open to 32 ' stopped)
  by "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us>
Re: Haskell 16' =C6oline?
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: Saving Organs was Shipping Containers.......
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Haskelled pipes
  by "4everaptor" <JABowers@execpc.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Shipping Containers for Organ Storage??? From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:01:24 -0600   I would think that the cost for shiping even a very small organ would be astronomical.It can cost $100 just to ship a 4 ft rank of pipes.Consider that if a professional organ builder doesnt dissassemble and pack it , you could end up with some damage.I think it might be more practical to rent a truck,get some pipe crates, go get it and put it in storage yourself. > -----Original Message----- > From: Alwyn V. H. Farey-Jones [SMTP:avhfj@direcpc.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 7:53 PM > To: Residence Organ List > Subject: [Residence Organs] Shipping Containers for Organ Storage??? > > I think I may be getting close to acquiring an organ, The trouble is = that > building it's going in hasn't been built yet. > > I was wondering whether it would be practicable to have the organ = shipped > in > a standard shipping container and then just keep the organ, still in the > shipping container, on site for a few months. > > I'd be grateful for your opinions. > > Thanx. > > Alwyn Jones > Long Island, NY > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Shipping Containers for Organ Storage??? From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:14:35 EST   Several weeks ago I delivered some replacement chests to Stockton,=20 California, where an attempt is being made to reconstruct an organ that was=20 in perfect shape at the time it was first put into a "shipping" container. =20 For all intensive purposes the organ was destroyed by water and here is how=20 it happens from the various examples I have seen before.   1) The outside upper part of the container is metal and some seams may leak= =20 from rain, fog, morning dew, snow, etc. 2) When the sun comes out the moisture inside the container acts like a=20 steam bath to soften the glue joints which let go. 3) Prolonged exposure to the moisture rots all of the leather. 4) All of the kiln dried organ wood begins to warp and pull out screws. 5) Rust of all ferrous metal parts starts and even the pipes start to=20 oxidize. 6) The bottom part of most containers have a wood floor which will wick=20 water up and into the container. 7) The water in contact with everything stored on the bottom of the=20 container rots the wood and warps the wood on every part in contact with the= =20 floor. 8) Just one warm sunny day can raise the inside temperature of a container=20 to well over 140=BAF; so, even if no water has gotten into the organ=20 components, the heat bakes out the leather, wood, glue joints, etc., and=20 damage is done that way.   Any storage of organ components should be done where they are NOT in contact= =20 with a floor or cement and where air can freely circulate around the=20 components or pipe trays. Storage of components in unheated spaces should=20 have electric damp chasers spaced throughout the neatly stacked and tarped=20 crating with an open air space like a pallet underneath the whole. If on=20 cement which will wick water, a plastic barrier should be placed between the= =20 pallets and organ components. The bottom line is that the kiln dried organ=20 wood has around 8% moisture content which if left to rise will cause all=20 kinds of damage that is hard to repair.   Just my 2 cents,   Al Sefl Guaranteed to be 50% accurate 50% of the time............ 1 outta 4 ain't bad for a Flatulus Antiquitus..........  
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: Shipping Containers for Organ Storage??? From: "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:21:05 -0600   ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   Al I say that any organ that has any pipes to it is always worth saving . no matter how small or big the instrument is in myoppinion if it has pipes = and a ok Console it is always worth saving . I have always been one that = like a lot of gadgetry on any console I am finding that the older the = organ the better the quality and the more gadgetry it had or has on it=20   just my opinion=20 john   >>> TheGluePot@aol.com 02/26/01 03:14PM >>> Several weeks ago I delivered some replacement chests to Stockton,=20 California, where an attempt is being made to reconstruct an organ that = was=20 in perfect shape at the time it was first put into a "shipping" container. = =20 For all intensive purposes the organ was destroyed by water and here is = how=20 it happens from the various examples I have seen before.   1) The outside upper part of the container is metal and some seams may = leak=20 from rain, fog, morning dew, snow, etc. 2) When the sun comes out the moisture inside the container acts like = a=20 steam bath to soften the glue joints which let go. 3) Prolonged exposure to the moisture rots all of the leather. 4) All of the kiln dried organ wood begins to warp and pull out screws. 5) Rust of all ferrous metal parts starts and even the pipes start to=20 oxidize. 6) The bottom part of most containers have a wood floor which will = wick=20 water up and into the container. 7) The water in contact with everything stored on the bottom of the=20 container rots the wood and warps the wood on every part in contact with = the=20 floor. 8) Just one warm sunny day can raise the inside temperature of a = container=20 to well over 140=BAF; so, even if no water has gotten into the organ=20 components, the heat bakes out the leather, wood, glue joints, etc., = and=20 damage is done that way.   Any storage of organ components should be done where they are NOT in = contact=20 with a floor or cement and where air can freely circulate around the=20 components or pipe trays. Storage of components in unheated spaces = should=20 have electric damp chasers spaced throughout the neatly stacked and = tarped=20 crating with an open air space like a pallet underneath the whole. If = on=20 cement which will wick water, a plastic barrier should be placed between = the=20 pallets and organ components. The bottom line is that the kiln dried = organ=20 wood has around 8% moisture content which if left to rise will cause = all=20 kinds of damage that is hard to repair.   Just my 2 cents,   Al Sefl Guaranteed to be 50% accurate 50% of the time............ 1 outta 4 ain't bad for a Flatulus Antiquitus..........   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own = Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20      
(back) Subject: Re: R=F6hr Fl=F6te (was16' open to 32 ' stopped) From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:34:44 EST   << few days ago, there was a discussion on converting > 16' open woods to 32' stopped pipes. One recurring > comment was that the bottom 3-4 pipes might be too > short to allow for a tuning cap. Has anyone tried making > 32' rohrflutes instead of 32' bourdons? Maybe the chimney > could provide the extra speaking length? > Robert Pelletier >>   The purpose of the "chimney" on a R=F6hr Fl=F6te is to add harmonics not len= gth. =20 The chimney actually raises the pitch in the process and the length of the=20 chimney when done correctly is a function of the wave length of the even=20 harmonic you wish to reinforce.   A Haskellized large-scaled wood Bourdon could be made that would speak at 32= '=20 pitch. To do this you would need something like a Robert Morton Bourdon=20 where you could attach a tube, closed at the bottom end, and suspended open=20 end up toward the stopper. Thus the wave goes up hits the stopper goes down= =20 through the tube and back up to hit the stopper then down again to the mouth= =20 to move the windsheet. You lose power but for a home installation it works=20 well. A quick and dirty way is to try plastic sewer line which works well=20 for amatuer builders. The trick is to find a set of Bourdons with large=20 enough scale that the area outside the Haskell tube is roughly equal to the=20 area inside the tube and where the stopper has enough extra tuning space on=20 to allow it to be drawn up from its normal position for suspension of the=20 tube. Ideally old zinc Diapason bases work best for tubes and the decreasin= g=20 diameter of each means you don't have to buy and try sewer pipe sizes.   Al Sefl  
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] Re:R=F6hr Fl=F6te ( was16' open to 32 ' stopped) From: "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:39:37 -0600   ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   question for any one that want to answer , Did Haskell ever make a Haskell = 16 ft bass the reason I am asking I am needing something half length that = might be an Aeoline or something that could sub for it any suggestions=20 john   >>> TheGluePot@aol.com 02/26/01 03:34PM >>> << few days ago, there was a discussion on converting > 16' open woods to 32' stopped pipes. One recurring > comment was that the bottom 3-4 pipes might be too > short to allow for a tuning cap. Has anyone tried making > 32' rohrflutes instead of 32' bourdons? Maybe the chimney > could provide the extra speaking length? > Robert Pelletier >>   The purpose of the "chimney" on a R=F6hr Fl=F6te is to add harmonics not = length. =20 The chimney actually raises the pitch in the process and the length of = the=20 chimney when done correctly is a function of the wave length of the = even=20 harmonic you wish to reinforce.   A Haskellized large-scaled wood Bourdon could be made that would speak at = 32'=20 pitch. To do this you would need something like a Robert Morton Bourdon=20=   where you could attach a tube, closed at the bottom end, and suspended = open=20 end up toward the stopper. Thus the wave goes up hits the stopper goes = down=20 through the tube and back up to hit the stopper then down again to the = mouth=20 to move the windsheet. You lose power but for a home installation it = works=20 well. A quick and dirty way is to try plastic sewer line which works = well=20 for amatuer builders. The trick is to find a set of Bourdons with = large=20 enough scale that the area outside the Haskell tube is roughly equal to = the=20 area inside the tube and where the stopper has enough extra tuning space = on=20 to allow it to be drawn up from its normal position for suspension of = the=20 tube. Ideally old zinc Diapason bases work best for tubes and the = decreasing=20 diameter of each means you don't have to buy and try sewer pipe sizes.   Al Sefl   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own = Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20      
(back) Subject: Re: Haskell 16' =C6oline? From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:10:32 EST   < question for any one that want to answer , Did Haskell ever make a Haskell= =20 16 ft >bass the reason I am asking I am needing something half length that=20 might be an >Aeoline or something that could sub for it any suggestions=20 > john >>   Yes, that was his and Estey's little ace in the hole for getting business=20 where the chamber size was limited in height. I have a cherished set of=20 Haskell 16' Gambas that are made to fit nicely under a 10' chamber ceiling.=20= =20 The =C6oline stop in the base region is not too different from a string soun= d. =20 Both ranks have harmonic bridges and similar scaling. You could get a=20 Haskell string base and voice it to fit in well.   Al  
(back) Subject: Re: Saving Organs was Shipping Containers....... From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:02:00 EST   > Al, > I say that any organ that has any pipes to it is always worth saving . > no matter how small or big the instrument is in myoppinion if it has = pipes and a ok >Console it is always worth saving . I have always been one that like a lot of >gadgetry on any console I am finding that the older the = organ the better the quality >and the more gadgetry it had or has on it > just my opinion > john >>   John:   I essentially agree with you. The organ in Stockton is in the hands of people trying to save it. However, when an organ is delivered with wood pipes all in pieces because the glue was steamed, the metal bases all oxidized and solder seams parted as they collapsed, the chests rotted and actions rotted to where they won't hold air, the question becomes one of economics. I tell my customers that pipe organs are "Labour Intensive" instruments. With thousands and thousands of parts there is always = something to tweek. Basket case organs are indeed a sad loss but when the organ = must be manufactured almost from scratch using the old parts as templates then things can financially run amuck. Restoration can far exceed the cost of = a new organ in many instances. For me the customer is always right. If I = have a church that wants the old organ completely rebuilt like new, I will do = it. The sad reality is that organs are thrown away all the time because the church or individual does not or cannot pony up the huge amount of restoration costs. I have managed to rescue a few instruments in the last =   few years where quotes were given by local organ firms and the organ = owners were just so flabbergasted they set about the send the organ to the dumps. = I try to find homes for these instruments without going broke myself.   Best wishes,   Al Sefl   p.s. Sitting in the cab of my truck is a Flute kit where pipes sitting = under a roof leak literally fell into pieces. During my apprenticeship I = learned pipe making and came to loath cutting so many size pieces of wood for wood = a flute. Gluing all the precut hundreds of pieces back together on cold = rainy nights will actually be good therapy!  
(back) Subject: Haskelled pipes From: "4everaptor" <JABowers@execpc.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:17:31 -0600   Interestingly enough, the Aeolian Skinner, opus number 1477 from 1969, which is in the performing arts center in Milwaukee has a Haskelled 32' Sub Principal. However, I dont' know who made the pipes. This organ is on an elevator and is stored under the stage when not in use.   John     Jon Calvo wrote:   > Did Haskell ever make a Haskell 16 ft bass . . . > john >