DIYAPASON-L Digest #231 - Friday, January 12, 2001
 
Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like
  by "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like
  by "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com>
[Residence Organs]  Re: Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
WGN studio organ
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  WGN studio organ
  by <Menutia@aol.com>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  WGN studio organ
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  WGN studio organ
  by "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@catoe.org>
 

(back) Subject: Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like From: "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:54:10 -0500   Eric Sagmuller asked about expansion chambers and so on. In the AIO video =   about that type of action, a presentation by builder Chuck Kegg, there is some interesting commentary.   Chuck indicated that some of the important considerations are valve bounce =   and valve closure, and he said that both aspects can be helped by using expansion chambers that consist of as large a boring as possible immediately above the valve. The pressure of the wind against the valve = is proportional to the area of the hole opened by the valve, and "bigger is better". He suggests that the valve be 1/4" larger in diameter than the opening and that the opening be at least 1/2", thereby suggesting a = minimum valve size of 3/4".   Even if the actual toe hole is smaller (to keep the pipes from falling through!), this larger hole is desireable. He bores "down" with an appropriate bit for the actual toe hole and then counterbores "up" with = the larger bit. Depending upon the topboard thickness, some degree of expansion chamber will result, but perhaps more important is the larger valve hole.   He also very gently rounds over the edge of the valve hole, using a 1/16" round-over bit in a router. A mild twist of a piece of sandpaper could also provide that rounding. The intent is to smooth the windflow as it enters the valve hole.   I believe that he uses toeboards that are about 1-3/8" thick, with = somewhat thicker ones being used in the case of mixtures, where there is a horizontal boring to connect the pipes for a given note.   Larry Chace    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:51:59 -0500   At 9:54 AM -0500 1/12/01, Larry Chace wrote: > >Chuck indicated that some of the important considerations are valve >bounce and valve closure, and he said that both aspects can be >helped by using expansion chambers that consist of as large a boring >as possible immediately above the valve. The pressure of the wind >against the valve is proportional to the area of the hole opened by >the valve, and "bigger is better". He suggests that the valve be >1/4" larger in diameter than the opening and that the opening be at >least 1/2", thereby suggesting a minimum valve size of 3/4".   That's interesting. I have some 5/8" valves I was going to use for my 1' Sifflute and other "small" pipes but it would be cheap enough to replace the valve seats with 3/4" ones.     > >Even if the actual toe hole is smaller (to keep the pipes from >falling through!), this larger hole is desireable. He bores "down" >with an appropriate bit for the actual toe hole and then >counterbores "up" with the larger bit. Depending upon the topboard >thickness, some degree of expansion chamber will result, but perhaps >more important is the larger valve hole.   I wonder how much bigger the valve and boring should be than the actual toe hole. I'm sure one could over do this where the valve gets too large(slow) for the small pipe. This method would give a moderate expansion chamber which I suspect would be fine for the smaller pipes, but the larger the pipe gets the less effect this larger boring would have. I have a copy of a post Nelson Denton sent in to pipeorg-l a couple years ago showing how he constructs expansion chamber chests. He uses 4 layers of 3/4" plywood with the middle two bored as large as possible for expansion. This would give a much larger chamber but I question if it's really necessary, also it makes for an expensive and heavy chest.     Eric    
(back) Subject: Re: Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like From: "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:52:12 -0500   Without having true information, let me *guess* that Chuck Kegg's suggestion of a 3/4" valve as the smallest might be due to (1) the fact that the 1/16" round-over router bits usually come with a ball bearing = that is 1/2" in diameter, so a *smaller* valve hole than 1/2" would not be practical or (2) he wanted to standardize on a few sizes of valves.   It is true that the 601s are available with a 5/8" valve; that is the smallest size. According to Chuck's formula, the valve hole should then = be 3/8". His goals was to keep the valve hole as large as possible. If you place a 5/8" valve over a 1/8" valve hole (because a little pipe might = need only such a tiny toe hole), then there would be little pressure effect acting upon the valve to close it and keep it closed.   Back on 1 August 1995, organ builder Allan Ontko suggested PIPORG-L: (1) bore the "toe hole" as if the pipes were voiced with open toes, (2) make the valve hole at least 30-50% larger in diameter than the toe hole, and (3) use a valve that is 1/4" larger than the valve hole. He also applies polyurethane varnish to all surfaces of his toeboards; he likes Stulb's Paste Varnish ("which looks like not-quite-congealed Jell-O"). (PIPORG-L on 19 Sept 1995)   And, as Eric wrote, you can always get replacement valves from OSI and = glue them on in place of the old small ones.   Larry Chace    
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:54:37 -0500   At 12:52 PM -0500 1/12/01, Larry Chace wrote: > Back on 1 August 1995, organ builder Allan Ontko suggested PIPORG-L: (1) bore the "toe hole" as if the pipes were voiced with open toes, (2) make the valve hole.... > >   As most of us probably have closed toes, I wonder how to know how "open" the toes would be for open toe voicing. That's something I never quite understood either, the reason for using open toe voicing. As I understand it the flue opening is pinched closed to regulate the pipe volume rather than closing the toe hole.   Ahh... the mysteries of the pipe organ!   Eric    
(back) Subject: WGN studio organ From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:33:32 EST   Anyone have info re the WGN studio organ? make, age, final disposition, = etc. Thanks and Regards R. J. Siegel  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] WGN studio organ From: <Menutia@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:38:58 EST     --part1_54.e94d28c.2790c562_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   R. J., funny you should ask, I'm listening to it now on an old Porter = Heaps album.   Jon H. form Catoe can tell you all about it, but in the mean time,   Here we go....to the site.   http://www.catoe.org/HOWELL.html   Enjoy!   Michael   --part1_54.e94d28c.2790c562_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>R. J., funny you should = ask, I'm listening to it now on an old Porter Heaps <BR>album. <BR> <BR>Jon H. form Catoe can tell you all about it, but in the mean time, <BR> <BR>Here we go....to the site. <BR> <BR>http://www.catoe.org/HOWELL.html <BR> <BR>Enjoy! <BR> <BR>Michael</FONT></HTML>   --part1_54.e94d28c.2790c562_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] WGN studio organ From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:48:52 -0500   To my knowledge, the WGN organ was a Wurli/Kimball of 3 manuals and played by Harold (Hal) Turner for PipeDreams every Sunday morning at 11:30 back = in the 60s.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: [Residence Organs] WGN studio organ     > Anyone have info re the WGN studio organ? make, age, final disposition, etc. > Thanks and Regards > R. J. Siegel > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:52:21 -0500   My Wurli has long pallet valves which open long-slotted openings into = which are expansion chambers for each pipe. The 4' manual pipes have larger chambers....and they get smaller on up the scale.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Sagmuller <ess4@psu.edu> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Expansion chambers, 601s, and the like     > At 9:54 AM -0500 1/12/01, Larry Chace wrote: > > > >Chuck indicated that some of the important considerations are valve > >bounce and valve closure, and he said that both aspects can be > >helped by using expansion chambers that consist of as large a boring > >as possible immediately above the valve. The pressure of the wind > >against the valve is proportional to the area of the hole opened by > >the valve, and "bigger is better". He suggests that the valve be > >1/4" larger in diameter than the opening and that the opening be at > >least 1/2", thereby suggesting a minimum valve size of 3/4". > > That's interesting. I have some 5/8" valves I was going to use for my > 1' Sifflute and other "small" pipes but it would be cheap enough to > replace the valve seats with 3/4" ones. > > > > > >Even if the actual toe hole is smaller (to keep the pipes from > >falling through!), this larger hole is desireable. He bores "down" > >with an appropriate bit for the actual toe hole and then > >counterbores "up" with the larger bit. Depending upon the topboard > >thickness, some degree of expansion chamber will result, but perhaps > >more important is the larger valve hole. > > I wonder how much bigger the valve and boring should be than the > actual toe hole. I'm sure one could over do this where the valve gets > too large(slow) for the small pipe. This method would give a moderate > expansion chamber which I suspect would be fine for the smaller > pipes, but the larger the pipe gets the less effect this larger > boring would have. I have a copy of a post Nelson Denton sent in to > pipeorg-l a couple years ago showing how he constructs expansion > chamber chests. He uses 4 layers of 3/4" plywood with the middle two > bored as large as possible for expansion. This would give a much > larger chamber but I question if it's really necessary, also it makes > for an expensive and heavy chest. > > > Eric > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] WGN studio organ From: "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:17:35 -0600     >WGN organ was originally a 2/7 WurliTzer organ purchased by a >bandleader...and later repossessed by WurliTzer and resold to WGN. It was =   >an unusual instrument as it came original with a Brass Trumpet. It was >located in the WGN studio in the Drake Hotel until studios relocated to >the new WGN building next to Tribune Tower. When it was relocated it was >rebuilt by Kimball who added the 3M console and a Kimball >Diapason, Clarinet and English Horn (which was more of a classical stop >than the normal theatre stop). WurliTzer pipework consisted of Concert >Flute, Tibia, Violin, Viol Celeste, Vox Humana, Tuba, and Brass Trumpet.   When originally installed in the WGN building the Kimball-WurliTzer had 2 =   3m consoles....one in a 1st floor radio studio where the organ has to listen to the organ through ear phones as the pipes and other console = where located in a second studio on the 6th floor. In the late fifties the organ =   was removed to storage and later relocated to a TV studio in the new WGN facility at Bradley Place on the NW side of Chicago...The organ was very seldom used after Harold Turner retired...with the broadcast folks = favoring the Hammond whenever they needed organ accompaniment...which was also rare =   as WGN was eliminating most of the local production work. Several years = ago WGN decided they needed the space occupied by the organ to support their lottery broadcasts and the organ was donated to the Archdiocese of = Chicago. The 7 ranks of WurliTzer were incorporated into the Seminary Auditorium organ at Mundelein and the Kimball portions sold off to a local organ enthusiast....the Kimball console was severely damaged by a fire in the building where it was being stored.   More information about the Mundelein organ can be found on the CATOE website Mundelein page at: <http://www.catoe.org/howell.html>   regards,   Jon C. Habermaas Chicago Area Theatre Organ Enthusiasts