DIYAPASON-L Digest #233 - Sunday, January 14, 2001
 
Dimensions of Windchests
  by <KZimme7737@aol.com>
Organs that are playing
  by <KZimme7737@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Organs that are playing
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Mounting large pipes off chests
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Dimensions of Windchests
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Organs that are playing
  by "Duane Austin" <duanet@execpc.com>
Electronic Relay/ Combination
  by <JFHally@aol.com>
Re: Dimensions of Windchests
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Thin wind chests
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: Mounting large pipes off chests
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Thin wind chests
  by "John Haskey" <johnh@powerinter.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Mounting large pipes off chests
  by "Bernard C. Nordmann" <bcnordmann@cdmnet.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Organs that are playing
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
 

(back) Subject: Dimensions of Windchests From: <KZimme7737@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:03:46 EST   Listers,   I stumbled on this list accidentally while surfing the Organ Webring. = After reading much of the archives, I decided to join. I also noticed that most = of you submitted a short autobio initially. I'll submit mine later.   I am new to "this" list, but I recognize a few of y'all's names from = Piporg and Pipechat (a couple years ago). No, I do not have a pipe organ yet, I bought a used Steinway grand instead. I am still in the planning stage of = my pipe organ - as I have for over 20 years.   I have fallen in love with a few organs made by Oberlinger of Germany. = They make small tracker organs. I'd like my organ to resemble one of the = "studio trackers" if possible. See http://organisten.de/oberlinger/e-frame_hausorgeln.htm and click on the pictures that say "Jubilee organ" and "Studio organ". That will give you = an idea of what I want it to look like.   I would like to build a tracker, but will most likely use DE for my first project and, maybe, convert to tracker some day. That way I can use some judicious unification and duplexing and add ranks as money allows.   Right now, I am in the process of planning the stoplist and ranklist. I don't want to waste a lot of energy planning an organ that is too large. = The Oberlinger organs somehow manage to cram about 10-12 ranks into a depth of =   less than 3' ! How do they do that?   Anyway, for my question. I would like to know the dimensions of your windchests and how many ranks they hold. Yes, I realize that every chest = is different. I'd just like to know the dimensions of YOUR (emphasis, not shouting) chests in order to give me an idea of how much space I will need = - I'm really concerned more about depth (front to back) of the windchest = than with length.   Many years ago I purchased "How to build a two manual chamber pipe organ" = by Milne. In it, he give instructions for a 56 note windchest that will have =   two 8' ranks (with stopped basses) and one 4' rank. The chest was 5' = long and about 18" deep. A couple of the bass pipes and a few of the tenor = pipes were moved to the treble end, and several of the bass pipes required = grooving off in order to fit.   So, how wide is the "usual" 56 - 61 notes chest? Given some = representative ranks of pipes, how deep is the chest? Given a chest of a certain size, = how much additional depth would be required to add, e.g. a 2' principal? an = 8' gemshorn? plus a few other examples (assuming that the lower octave of any = 8' stop would be stopped pipes).   Thanks for your time. I hope to be receiving your measurements soon.   Sincerely, Keith Zimmerman Commerce, Georgia  
(back) Subject: Organs that are playing From: <KZimme7737@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:10:19 EST   Listers,   More questions:   1. How many of you have organs that are actually playing? Meaning that = you are able to play beautiful pipe organ music on it.   2. Those of you who have non-theatre organs, did you use pipes that had = been in church organs?   3. If you used former church pipes, have you had any problem with the = volume of your organ? I understand that a voicer has some leeway in taking pipes =   that were designed for a 500 seat sanctuary and revoicing/modifying them = to play at lower wind pressures and to produce less volume.   I would very much like to see pictures of your installations and hear recordings if you have them. I looked at the websites of those of you who =   had them listed on the diyapason website.   Thanks, Keith Zimmerman  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Organs that are playing From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:52:21 -0500   My 2m 9r Wurli sounds as it did in the theatre. In fact, one can walk = around the house outside and hear it clear into the cornfields. INside the house, things rumble!   The instrument can be played by anyone who knows how to play and it can be played by MIDI.   Rick    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Mounting large pipes off chests From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:33 -0500   Re: your 8' Diapasons in a low ceiling:   I ran my 16' Diaphones on the floor and platformed the rest of the organ atop them. Everything fit, with ceiling space to spare.   Try running the longer pipes on the floor and erect the 4' balance above them. Access for tuning longer pipes is a must.   Rick    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Dimensions of Windchests From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 08:13:33 -0500   I service a one manual tracker with 8 ranks on it, and the chest is about = 3' deep x 5' wide. The stopped 16' bourdons sit on offsets at either side of the main chest -all winded off the rather large reservoir underneath.   Another one-manual tracker I know of has 3 ranks on the 2 1/2' deep chest and 6' wide with pumps and reservoir underneath. This instrument has no = 16' basses (only 8'), and the 12 basses are divided and mounted on either side of the manual chest with rollers spaning either side to the basses for low octave manual playing.   In my travels, I've seen manual chest ranks placed close behind each = other. Air-tight channeling and long key pallets under each channel allow for enough air to feed all ranks.   With my roll-playing street organ, the main chest is 18" deep x 5' long = and holds 114 pipes. The 8' basses are on an offset behind the main chest.   Compactness is nice (and optimal at times) but allow enough room for = tuning and servicing.   Rick    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Organs that are playing From: "Duane Austin" <duanet@execpc.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 08:38:37 -0600   My 2/14 Barton is up and playing (Very well IMHO) We have had a few Concerts, for our friends, played by professional = organists, among the Dave Wickerham, and he really put the Barton through it's paces. Any one is welcome to come and see/play the Barton. Just Call ahead To see our installation go to: www.theatreorgans.com/wi/beloit Duane Austin KZimme7737@aol.com wrote:   > Listers, > > More questions: > > 1. How many of you have organs that are actually playing? Meaning that = you > are able to play beautiful pipe organ music on it. > > 2. Those of you who have non-theatre organs, did you use pipes that had = been > in church organs? > > 3. If you used former church pipes, have you had any problem with the = volume > of your organ? I understand that a voicer has some leeway in taking = pipes > that were designed for a 500 seat sanctuary and revoicing/modifying them = to > play at lower wind pressures and to produce less volume. > > I would very much like to see pictures of your installations and hear > recordings if you have them. I looked at the websites of those of you = who > had them listed on the diyapason website. > > Thanks, > Keith Zimmerman > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Electronic Relay/ Combination From: <JFHally@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 12:25:46 EST     --part1_e6.1012a304.27933b1a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   All, I am in the process of replacing the relay and combination action on my highly unified 2/6 Link theater organ. It has a double bolster console = with over 100 stop keys. I have not decided what to buy and would like to keep = the costs at a resonable level. Does anyone out there have any opinions on this? Your replies will be = greatly appreciated.   Thanks, John Hally Roanoke, Va.   --part1_e6.1012a304.27933b1a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>All, <BR>I am in the process of replacing the relay and combination action on = my <BR>highly unified 2/6 Link theater organ. It has a double bolster console = with <BR>over 100 stop keys. I have not decided what to buy and would like to = keep the <BR>costs at a resonable level. <BR>Does anyone out there have any opinions on this? Your replies will be = greatly <BR>appreciated. <BR> <BR>Thanks, <BR>John Hally <BR>Roanoke, Va.</FONT></HTML>   --part1_e6.1012a304.27933b1a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Dimensions of Windchests From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:06:58 -0500   Welcome to Keith Zimmerman, who had previous posted to PIPRG-L about the general topic of residence organs.   The Oberlinger organs are probably able to be so compact due to their avoidance of "too many" large-scaled registers and the sharing of bass pipes. It is certainly possible to build *very* compact slider chests, including ones that are laid out in "keyboard scale". That of course implies that the bass (and tenor) pipes have to be offset or otherwise moved out of the way.   For electric action chests, perhaps more space is needed, but there is = also more flexibility in that different ranks can be accomondated in different fashions. For my own project, I've worked out a standardized windchest layout that attempts to save space while also providing some efficiency in terms of exchanging sets of pipes.   The chest measures 9" wide and 40" long and hold notes 18-73 of a single rank. For an 8' set, this is Tenor F up to the top of the 4' extension; the design assumes that the rank is no larger than 46 scale at 8' CC (17th halving, etc.). Only the bottom two pipes extend slightly beyond the = edges of the chest, perhaps 3/4" at the end. The pipes are arranged chromatically, in a "slalom" fashion:   g#1 e2 c3 c#1 a1 f2 G c1 g1 d#2 b2 F# d1 a#1 f#2 .... and so on G# B f#1 d2 a#2 F d#1 b1 g2 A A# f1 c#2 a2 e c2 g#2   (If you aren't using a mono-spaced fixed font, then that diagram was perhaps rather strange-looking!)   This type of chest would be tuned from the treble end and several of them could be placed side-by-side, perhaps on individual "boxes" and perhaps grouped onto a single windbox. The note spaceing in the treble is determined by the size of the "601" valve units. The choice of Tenor F as the largest pipe was dicated by the available ceiling height and the = desire to be able to get at the bottom of the chest for maintanence work; an open Tenor F pipe is the tallest that would fit.   Larry Chace        
(back) Subject: Thin wind chests From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:08:46 -0500   Many congrats to Dave Whitmore (and Jane!) on your significant progress!   Regarding thin chests, I assume Dave meant one that sits on the floor and holds pipes that are tall enough that there is little clearance to the ceiling. Let's assume that the pipes are mitered (as Dave mentioned), so that there is no problem with the pipe coming within a very small distance of the ceiling. (For open non-mitered pipes, you need to provide some clearance so that the ceiling doesn't act like a tuning shade!)   One approach to a very thin chest is to built it upside-down, with the toeboard (no longer the "top" board!) extending behind the chest body sufficiently that the pipes can fit into toeholes bored into its top surface. That board should be thick enough that it can have channels running from where the valves are mounted within the chest body, these channels connecting with the actual toe holes. A laminated toeboard might work well and might be a bit thinner. The chest body will be in front of the pipe feet, where it would not interfere with the speach. I believe that Frank Vanaman in Baltimore has done something like this for his 16' Basson, and he has photos on his web page (the URL to which I have = cleverly misplaced!).   Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: Re: Mounting large pipes off chests From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:09:04 -0500   Regarding Darren Ferreter's question about how to fit 100 inches of windchest (on end) under a 96 inch ceiling, here's another method (in addition to the good suggestions already given):   Try placing the chest in a "leaning tower of Pisa" fashion, tilting it = just enough that it will fit. You'd have to stack the pipes and use short lengths of flexible conductor between the chest and the pipe feet, which you may choose to replace with flanges or wooden blocks bored out to take the conductor. (Organ Supply's "Orgaflex" is the paper and aluminum foil type that is often used for this sort of thing; for 2" diameter it runs about $2.18 a foot.) If you replace the original feet, you'll need to provide a means for regulating the wind to each pipe, such as a little slider under one of the conductor mounting blocks.   If the lowest pipes are on the bottom of the stack (a usual arrangement), then the chest could lean with its "top" toward the pipes, since they will be shorter towards the top. The pipe mouths would end up not in line (vertically), but that would not be a problem (and might even be good!).   Lest anyone find this *too* silly a scheme, I've seen an Austin with the bottom 3 or 4 pipes of the 16' Open Wood mounted diagonally across one = wall of the swell box, that being the only way their length could be = accomodated without mitering.   It is entirely possible that the pipes will speak better with the "long" wind conductors; they will probably be less likely to "bark" if you open them up to try to get more volume.   Of course, there is also mitering, which isn't terribly difficult to do, but the pipes will require additonal bracing and you'll need to calculate the resulting consumption of "air space" in front of the chest.   Larry Chace            
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Thin wind chests From: "John Haskey" <johnh@powerinter.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 12:39:05 -0800   Larry Chace wrote an interesting piece on thin wind chests. Here is a link to a photo of a nearby residence organ: http://www.concentric.net/~leboom/tour/images/organfront.jpeg Note the pipes on either side of the console about six of which are visible. They sit on a piece of 2x6 wood and are tubed off from the main chest the edge of which can be seen above the music rack. (The tubes are actually lengths of garden hose). I'm not saying this is the best solution but it certainly is *a* solution and it works fine in this instrument! ---john.  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Mounting large pipes off chests From: "Bernard C. Nordmann" <bcnordmann@cdmnet.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:15:36 -0600   At 10:25 PM 1/13/01 -0500, jrbaird@erols.com wrote: >I installed an 8' open wood (diapason) base (10 pipes) in the ceiling of >a room, horizontal and tubed them off. I enlarged the holes in the chest, = and >used offset (paper and tin foil) tubing, of about 2" diameter. Wind = pressure >is about 2.5 inches. The pipes speak quite fast, the same as if they were >mounted on the chest itself. The tubing runs are about 6/7 feet long. I >guess that a lot would depend on the pipes, the cut up, etc.   I'd say it depends on the amount of air needed by the pipe. It sounds like =   your combination worked correctly.   I mounted my offset chests and pipes horizontal, i.e., imagine the pipes mounted to the chest in the usual way. Now rotate the assembly until the pipes are horizontal (and the chest will be standing on its side). I believe most if not all chests will work correctly this way. The job was = easy.   Regards,   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bernie Nordmann, St. Louis, MO -- Owner of a 3/13 Wurlitzer/Barton/Kimball/Dennison/whatever -- Registered Piano Technician, Piano Technicians Guild -- Full time computer consultant - Nordmann Consulting, Inc. -- Amateur radio operator, call sign KV0W -- Husband, father ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Organs that are playing From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:40:06 -0500   Hi Duane-   Excellent pix of your instrument! Typically Barton -I love it!   Rick