DIYAPASON-L Digest #246 - Saturday, January 27, 2001
 
Re: DIY reeds
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Rossignol
  by "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Rossignol
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs] Wurli Bird Whistle -- was:  Rossignol
  by "Bernard C. Nordmann" <bcnordmann@cdmnet.com>
Wurli Bird Whistle
  by "DanielW Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIY reeds
  by "mike" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIY reeds
  by "R & L Carver" <r1723@ls.net>
Re: [Residence Organs] Wurli Bird Whistle
  by "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs] Laukhuff URL
  by "steve c bournias" <chrisbournias@hotmail.com>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  Wurli Bird Whistle
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs] Wood Pipework
  by "steve c bournias" <chrisbournias@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Rossignol
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Rossignol
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
[Residence Organs]  Re: [Residence Organs] Laukhuff URL
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Bird Whistle
  by <Jadams4122@aol.com>
Fw: [Residence Organs]  Bird Whistle
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Bird Whistle
  by "DanielW Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
CAD Software
  by <KZimme7737@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Bird Whistle
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Bird Whistle
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: DIY reeds From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 04:00:08 EST   In a message dated 1/26/01 6:09:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, ckehne@accglobal.net writes:   << The traditional way to cut them out seems to be to > scrap out a trough in the sheet with a special tool. I cheated; > I sent my brass to a brother-in-law who worked in a high-tech > machine shop and he cut the tongues out with a computer-controlled > laser (no fair!, you might say)... > have fun, > Robert Pelletier >>   While laser milling, chemical milling, or EDM milling will produce a good reed tongue, the setup time for programming takes longer than to just pull =   out the old reed knife, make a score, put the metal in your reed vice, and =   snap off your new tongue. I have made many new tongues in several methods =   just to see if these are improved ways but keep coming back to the old = ways which are fast and accurate. No matter what method you use you end up = with a raw tongue that will need to be cleaned up, filed, burnished, and curved = by hand in later processes.   Al Sefl  
(back) Subject: Rossignol From: "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:42:01   Dear List, Based on Ed Stauff's online organ stop encyclopedia and Laukhuffs = catalogue, the rossignol(birdwhistle / nightingale) stop consist of three pipes, the ends of which are immersed in water to produce the sounds of chirping = birds. I have heard this amazingly beautiful stop as a background to a reed dialogue from Zipoli's pastorale played on Guy Theriens French classic = organ at the Grand Seminaire in Montreal. Would anyone on the list know what type/pitch/scale the three pipes would be and if they are identical/different. The stop on this particular organ is labelled "Deux Rossignols (Romeo et Juliette)". Would this mean,that there are 2 sets of three pipes at different pitches? I would be interested in knowing and hopefully making one for my little orgel. Best regards.   Homer _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Rossignol From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:57:45 -0500   I have a bird whistle on my Wurli, and the sound from a single pipe = bubbles up thru glycerine -water evaporates too quickly. One could get fancy and have several pipes chirp on a rotating barrel like = a music box. I once repaired a musical bird cage that had such a barrel = which chirpped two whistles. It even convinced the cat. <G>   Rick    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Wurli Bird Whistle -- was: Rossignol From: "Bernard C. Nordmann" <bcnordmann@cdmnet.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:27:31 -0600   At 08:57 AM 1/27/01 -0500, VEAGUE wrote: >I have a bird whistle on my Wurli, and the sound from a single pipe = bubbles >up thru glycerine -water evaporates too quickly.   I just use glycerine in mine. It seems to last almost forever; I just add = a little maybe every five years.   I've also heard it said that a light mineral oil works well and will not evaporate. If you have a cooperative druggist, have him hunt down a pint bottle, and you'll have a lifetime supply.   Cheers,    
(back) Subject: Wurli Bird Whistle From: "DanielW Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:11:44 -0400   What does these whistles look like any photos? Danielwh 2000 E.Power Biggs Fellow    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIY reeds From: "mike" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:07:13 -0500   Mike Gettelman wrote:   If you could spare a bit more time for a student, are the tongues only = curved along their lengths, or are there compound curved reeds too? In auto body fabrication, a device known as an English Wheel rolls rounded and curved = shapes into sheet metal. Has this ever been done to reeds?   Thank You Mike Gettelman   TheGluePot@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 1/26/01 6:09:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, > ckehne@accglobal.net writes: > > << The traditional way to cut them out seems to be to > > scrap out a trough in the sheet with a special tool. I cheated; > > I sent my brass to a brother-in-law who worked in a high-tech > > machine shop and he cut the tongues out with a computer-controlled > > laser (no fair!, you might say)... > > have fun, > > Robert Pelletier > >> > > While laser milling, chemical milling, or EDM milling will produce a = good > reed tongue, the setup time for programming takes longer than to just = pull > out the old reed knife, make a score, put the metal in your reed vice, = and > snap off your new tongue. I have made many new tongues in several = methods > just to see if these are improved ways but keep coming back to the old = ways > which are fast and accurate. No matter what method you use you end up = with a > raw tongue that will need to be cleaned up, filed, burnished, and curved = by > hand in later processes. > > Al Sefl > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIY reeds From: "R & L Carver" <r1723@ls.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:47:40 -0800   Hi;   Rank amateur here:) So far as I know from reading and examining a few junked trumpet reeds the curvature is only along the length and yes a machine has been used to rough shape large tongues. Try searching the archives at PIPORG-L for info on that machine. I think that's where I = read about it. BTW If you just want to play at it for a first experience you = can buy a pack of shim brass from ENCO for around 20 bucks, as I recall, and = it contains a wide range of graduated thicknesses. Most of the pieces will = be too thick but it's handy stuff to have in the shop. And speaking of auto bodies, I can tell you that using this material it's not too hard to make = a tongue that sounds at least as good as a car horn:)   Robert Carver   > Mike Gettelman wrote: > > If you could spare a bit more time for a student, are the tongues = only curved > along their lengths, or are there compound curved reeds too? In auto = body > fabrication, a device known as an English Wheel rolls rounded and curved shapes > into sheet metal. Has this ever been done to reeds? >      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Wurli Bird Whistle From: "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:52:49   Hi Daniel, They look like cylindrical metal organ pipes. They are inverted over a pan =   of liquid so that the wind supply comes from above(i.e, the toes are attached to a "manifold" above the inverted pipes). If you go to Laukhuffs =   catalogue,section on flue pipes, you'll find them under nachtigall or rossignol. Homer     >From: danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca (DanielW Hopkins) >Reply-To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >Subject: [Residence Organs] Wurli Bird Whistle >Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:11:44 -0400 > >What does these whistles look like > any photos? > Danielwh >2000 E.Power Biggs Fellow > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >   _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Laukhuff URL From: "steve c bournias" <chrisbournias@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:20:03 -0500   That is how the big boys do it. They have cut-outs to lay out the chests. Steve Bournias   >From: KZimme7737@aol.com >Reply-To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >To: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Laukhuff URL >Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:21:55 EST > >List, > >Here's the URL for Laukuff. As others have posted, they don't sell to >amateurs. Nevertheless, for those of us who don't have access to the = real >thing but simply like to look at pictures, I think you will find the >catalogs >interesting. You will need Adobe Acrobat. (don't read toooooooooo much >into >that!) > >Laukhuff Pipe Organ Supplies Catalogues >http://www.laukhuff.de/english/kata_e.html > >I found the catalog on flue pipes to be helpful in explaining the pipe >scales > that we have been discussing. There is a chart that has all the >diameters >of the pipes according to scale numbers. I thought about cutting out a >zillion circles of the proper diameters to assist me in laying out a >windchest (like my grandmother crocheting little squares for an afghan). = I >addressed the "scales" question on Piporg-l about two years ago. I = "think" >I >have a fair understanding of it now. Part of my concept of pipe scales >came >from a book I read as a teen (don't remember title). In the pipes = catalog >(as well as the OSI catalog) I find all kinds of scales given for the >pipes. >It appears - to me - that the scale given represents the diameter of the = CC >(keyboard CC, not 8' C) pipe for that rank. IOW, if one wants a scale 44 >Diapason 8', you order it just like that. If you then want a Octave 4' >that >is 2 scales smaller, you get a scale 58 octave (would be the same as a 46 >scale diapason 8', then the 12th pipe up (TC, or 4' C) would be >46+12=3D58..................I THINK. > >Catalog of Flue Pipes >http://www.laukhuff.de/kapitel/11.pdf > >Sincerely, >Keith Zimmerman, M.D. >   _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com    
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] Wurli Bird Whistle From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:15:11 -0500   The bird whistle looks like a short tin can with an open-coned top. It has = a short metal whistle attached (soldered) at a 45-degree angle down into the side of the can with a rubber hose attached to the whistle from the = action.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: DanielW Hopkins <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 11:11 AM Subject: [Residence Organs] Wurli Bird Whistle     > What does these whistles look like > any photos? > Danielwh > 2000 E.Power Biggs Fellow > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Wood Pipework From: "steve c bournias" <chrisbournias@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:23:40 -0500   I believe voicers can add wood or metal inserts to any stopped or open = wood rank to lower the mouths. The fancy way is to use a mahogony insert. And yes, they are expensive...Steve Bournias   >From: "Elders, Craig" <c.elders@tcu.edu> >Reply-To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >To: "'DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org'" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >Subject: [Residence Organs] Wood Pipework >Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:29:23 -0600 > >Good TGIF to all! > >I am going to replace my Swell 8' Gedeckt. It would need to rescaled >about 4 pipes and since the rank is not of the best quality, my voicer = and >I >have decided to replace it. Most used "experienced" wood Gedeckts I have >found are not the correct scale, they are for higher pressure, have too >high >of a cut up, not the best of quality, etc. So I have about decided I am >going to have to purchase a new rank, exactly what I (and my voicer) = want. >(Open wide checkbook!) > >I am expecting a new 2' Super Octave for my Great that I ordered from >Laukhuff. (By the way, I ordered this through a builder friend. He added >this to an order he was placing. I help him out every once-in-a-while so =   >he >did me this favor.) The exchange rate is/has been very good. > >I know that Bart, as well as others, have ordered new pipework, but think >most have ordered new metal ranks. Has anyone ordered wooded pipes that >might give me (us) some thoughts on where you purchased them, why they = were >chosen, and any other factors that went into your decision? > >Thanks for your time. (And did I mention, TGIF!) > >Craig Elders > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >   _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Rossignol From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:46:13 -0800   I have a friend in San Francisco who built a two-octave set of 'tuned birds', using top octaves of diapason/principal pipes up-ended in a water trough. The upper lips needed to be pulled out quite a bit, but they worked quite well. A Smith 24-stop action was used for keying, and the pipes connected to the chest through rubber tubing. Sounds great with single-note melodies along with the single-stroke xylophone ala Sidney = Torch. At 08:57 01/27/2001 -0500, VEAGUE wrote: >I have a bird whistle on my Wurli, and the sound from a single pipe = bubbles >up thru glycerine -water evaporates too quickly. >One could get fancy and have several pipes chirp on a rotating barrel = like a >music box. I once repaired a musical bird cage that had such a barrel = which >chirpped two whistles. It even convinced the cat. <G> > >Rick > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > >   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Rossignol From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:46:13 -0800   I have a friend in San Francisco who built a two-octave set of 'tuned birds', using top octaves of diapason/principal pipes up-ended in a water trough. The upper lips needed to be pulled out quite a bit, but they worked quite well. A Smith 24-stop action was used for keying, and the pipes connected to the chest through rubber tubing. Sounds great with single-note melodies along with the single-stroke xylophone ala Sidney = Torch. At 08:57 01/27/2001 -0500, VEAGUE wrote: >I have a bird whistle on my Wurli, and the sound from a single pipe = bubbles >up thru glycerine -water evaporates too quickly. >One could get fancy and have several pipes chirp on a rotating barrel = like a >music box. I once repaired a musical bird cage that had such a barrel = which >chirpped two whistles. It even convinced the cat. <G> > >Rick > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > >   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: [Residence Organs] Laukhuff URL From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:07:45 -0600   At 3:20 PM -0500 1/27/01, steve c bournias wrote: >That is how the big boys do it. They have cut-outs to lay out the >chests. Steve Bournias   That is not how the "big-boys" do it. Most of us use CADD programs for laying out chests especially when laying out a slider chest where you need to make sure there is room for all the pipes and where you have some large scale pipes on the chest such as a big metal bourdon or an 8' principal.   We do have a couple of sets of templates around the shop but they are not used in chest design or layout. The wood shop gets complete sets of CADD drawings for cutting and assembling the chest, including the grid.   David  
(back) Subject: Bird Whistle From: <Jadams4122@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:31:08 EST   Hi Daniel,   I have a picture of a bird whistle called a Pajarito on a 17th century = organ in Spain. There are two on the organ and each seems to have eight pipes, = all the same length. A small funnel is permanently attached to add water. They =   don't seem to be inverted but could be. (I use baby oil in my theatre type =   whistle) The same organ has a ten bell Campanas which is powered by a windmill, wooden gears and a trigger cylinder for strikers. Looks like the =   Campanas is a type of Zymbalstearn (sp). Both would be fun to duplicate. I =   can try to scan the picture and e mail it to you if you like.   John Adams  
(back) Subject: Fw: [Residence Organs] Bird Whistle From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:03:19 -0500   I too would like to see the bells and whistles.   Thanks, Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jadams4122@aol.com> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 6:31 PM Subject: [Residence Organs] Bird Whistle     > Hi Daniel, > > I have a picture of a bird whistle called a Pajarito on a 17th century organ > in Spain. There are two on the organ and each seems to have eight pipes, all > the same length. A small funnel is permanently attached to add water. = They > don't seem to be inverted but could be. (I use baby oil in my theatre = type > whistle) The same organ has a ten bell Campanas which is powered by a > windmill, wooden gears and a trigger cylinder for strikers. Looks like = the > Campanas is a type of Zymbalstearn (sp). Both would be fun to duplicate. = I > can try to scan the picture and e mail it to you if you like. > > John Adams > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Bird Whistle From: "DanielW Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:13:31 -0400   Yes Please send me the pic    
(back) Subject: CAD Software From: <KZimme7737@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:30:01 EST     --part1_77.f745744.27a4d019_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   List,   Would those of you who use CAD software please tell which program you use. = Have you set up sets of templates specific for designing pipe organs? I think many builders use CAD for chest layouts as well as for creating drawings of the facades.   Thanks, Keith Zimmerman   --part1_77.f745744.27a4d019_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>List, <BR> <BR>Would those of you who use CAD software please tell which program you = use. &nbsp; <BR>Have you set up sets of templates specific for designing pipe organs? = &nbsp;I <BR>think many builders use CAD for chest layouts as well as for creating <BR>drawings of the facades. <BR> <BR>Thanks, <BR>Keith Zimmerman</FONT></HTML>   --part1_77.f745744.27a4d019_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Bird Whistle From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:29:25 -0800   Hi, John. I'd like to see those pictures, too! Thanks.   At 18:31 01/27/2001 EST, Jadams4122@aol.com wrote: >Hi Daniel, > >I have a picture of a bird whistle called a Pajarito on a 17th century = organ >in Spain. There are two on the organ and each seems to have eight pipes, = all >the same length. A small funnel is permanently attached to add water. = They >don't seem to be inverted but could be. (I use baby oil in my theatre = type >whistle) The same organ has a ten bell Campanas which is powered by a >windmill, wooden gears and a trigger cylinder for strikers. Looks like = the >Campanas is a type of Zymbalstearn (sp). Both would be fun to duplicate. = I >can try to scan the picture and e mail it to you if you like. > >John Adams > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > >   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Bird Whistle From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:29:25 -0800   Hi, John. I'd like to see those pictures, too! Thanks.   At 18:31 01/27/2001 EST, Jadams4122@aol.com wrote: >Hi Daniel, > >I have a picture of a bird whistle called a Pajarito on a 17th century = organ >in Spain. There are two on the organ and each seems to have eight pipes, = all >the same length. A small funnel is permanently attached to add water. = They >don't seem to be inverted but could be. (I use baby oil in my theatre = type >whistle) The same organ has a ten bell Campanas which is powered by a >windmill, wooden gears and a trigger cylinder for strikers. Looks like = the >Campanas is a type of Zymbalstearn (sp). Both would be fun to duplicate. = I >can try to scan the picture and e mail it to you if you like. > >John Adams > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > >   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com