DIYAPASON-L Digest #352 - Monday, July 23, 2001
 
Glue
  by "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Glue
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Glue
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Glue
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Glue
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: Glue
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
[Residence Organs]  Re: Glue
  by "Hugh Knapton" <knapton@superaje.com>
Re: Barge Cement/Glue
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Glue
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Glue
  by "Steven Paul Durham" <sdurham11@home.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Glue
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Glue
  by <DEMPAR1@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Glue From: "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:55:26   Dear List, I am about to make pallet valves for my little haus orgel project (mechanical). Is there a modern glue thats good for felt to wood and felt = to leather interfaces in the pallet valves. If hide glue is still the best product for these applications, I am willing to use it but would be interested in a product more resistant to moisture/humidity. I am also looking for a leather to wood adhesive for the reservoir. Thanks. Homer   _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Glue From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:04:59 EDT     --part1_62.11705aab.288d971b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit         My favorite glue is the fish glue from Columbia Organ Leathers.You use it = at room temperature. It can be thinned with water&it is water clean up. I = have used hot glue for regulator leathering. The fish glue is easier to work = with when you are new at this. It stays the same consistency longer then hide = glue or hot glue. The organ man down the hill, the fellow who thought hot glue was the only way! has borrowed the fish glue to do repairs on his releathered = regulators, after they were installed back at the church! That is my 2and a half sense worth! Have fun Dennis   --part1_62.11705aab.288d971b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2> <BR>Happy Monday</BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR> My favorite glue is the fish glue from Columbia Organ Leathers.You = use it at <BR>room temperature. It can be thinned with water&amp;it is water clean = up. I have <BR>used hot glue for regulator leathering. The fish glue is easier to = work with <BR>when you are new at this. It stays the same consistency longer then = hide glue <BR>or hot glue. <BR>The organ man down the hill, the fellow who thought hot glue was the = only <BR>way! has borrowed the fish glue to do repairs on his releathered = regulators, <BR>after they were installed back at the church! <BR>That is my 2and a half sense worth! <BR>Have fun <BR>Dennis </FONT></HTML>   --part1_62.11705aab.288d971b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Glue From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:40:17 -0700   Homer, my own personal advice is stick to the hot hide glue. It is the best I have found for the jobs you mention. While there are modern glues EASIER to use (like white glue), they are NOT BETTER, as they make later restoration or repair much more difficult. For repairing reservoirs, I have used Barge contact cement, but when doing a complete rebuild or building a new one, I will still use hot hide glue. For what it's worth...   At 01:55 PM 7/23/01, homer valenzona wrote: >Dear List, >I am about to make pallet valves for my little haus orgel project >(mechanical). Is there a modern glue thats good for felt to wood and felt = to >leather interfaces in the pallet valves. If hide glue is still the best >product for these applications, I am willing to use it but would be >interested in a product more resistant to moisture/humidity. I am also >looking for a leather to wood adhesive for the reservoir. Thanks. >Homer > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at = http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > >   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Glue From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:53:32 -0700   >Homer, my own personal advice is stick to the hot hide glue. It is the >best I have found for the jobs you mention. While there are modern glues >EASIER to use (like white glue), they are NOT BETTER, as they make later >restoration or repair much more difficult. For repairing reservoirs, I >have used Barge contact cement, but when doing a complete rebuild or >building a new one, I will still use hot hide glue. >For what it's worth... > >At 01:55 PM 7/23/01, homer valenzona wrote: >>Dear List, >>I am about to make pallet valves for my little haus orgel project >>(mechanical). Is there a modern glue thats good for felt to wood and = felt to >>leather interfaces in the pallet valves. If hide glue is still the best >>product for these applications, I am willing to use it but would be >>interested in a product more resistant to moisture/humidity. I am also >>looking for a leather to wood adhesive for the reservoir. Thanks. > >Homer   I have used the hot glue and Columbia fish glue alternately. Outside of longer set up time, and consistent with many others on piporg_L and pipechat have found no difference in the ultimate result and being equally reversible. For pallets - one or all of the leather suppliers offer stock consisting of strips of ALREADY bonded felt and leather for that purpose. It saves a TON of time and gives very professional results.   John V --  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Glue From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:08:38 -0700   Hi, John, Homer, and anyone else following this thread. I suppose I = should have mentioned fish glue, but as I've never used it myself, I really don't have any experience with it, and don't like to comment without personal knowledge. I have used the prepared hide glue, Titebond brand, but not = for organ work, only for wood work, and only for small repairs where heating = up the gluepot wouldn't be worth the effort.   At 11:53 AM 7/23/01 -0700, John Vanderlee wrote: >>Homer, my own personal advice is stick to the hot hide glue... >---MEGA-SNIP--- >I have used the hot glue and Columbia fish glue alternately...       Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Glue From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:26:42 EDT   1) There is almost no place in organbuilding for white glue. 2) Natural protein glues (hot hide glue and fish glue) work the best with =   the added advantage that the next rebuilder won't end up cursing your = name. 3) Prepared hide glues have glycerin or some other liquid base so that = when they dry they have somewhat less tensile strength. Some, like white glue, =   fill the wood surface requiring the next rebuilder to plane or sand the = wood extensively to get rid of the residual so a new glue contact can safely be =   done. 4) Barge Cement is good only for leather to leather connections where = gusset leather meets rib leather. At the rebuild it goes into the garbage. You wouldn't use it on wood to leather because you would then have to plane = down the wood to get a new gluing surface.   If you can find someone with a copy, read The Glue Pot issue dealing with = hot glue and all of the other kinds of glue. Almost every glue topic is dealt =   with in relationship to organbuilding.   One last thought. During my apprenticeship I was taught that gussets went =   down directly on the wood for maximum strength then the rib leather was = laid on top of the already glued gussets. I have seen other rebuilders and = even some manufacturers reverse the order but cannot understand why. If = someone has an answer I would appreciate it since I don't think you would normally =   give up strength for a faster assembly.   Regards to the list,   Al Sefl Brewing the best hot glue in the West.......... Finger lickin' good.........  
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: Glue From: "Hugh Knapton" <knapton@superaje.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:17:35 -0400   Hi Al & list   Al Sefl wrote: >One last thought. During my apprenticeship I was taught that gussets = went >down directly on the wood for maximum strength then the rib leather was = laid >on top of the already glued gussets. I have seen other rebuilders and = even >some manufacturers reverse the order but cannot understand why. If = someone >has an answer I would appreciate it since I don't think you would = normally >give up strength for a faster assembly.   I don't think that I have ever encountered a reservoir done this way, and certainly have never done it myself. Next time I have a reservoir to leather, I will experiment with this method. It would seem to make terrific sense.... Thanks Al!   One question from your message... What is barge glue? In my British & Canadian training I have never encountered the term ... Perhaps it is something that I know by another name.   Cheers Hugh    
(back) Subject: Re: Barge Cement/Glue From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:33:14 EDT   > One question from your message... What is barge glue? In my British & > Canadian training I have never encountered the term ... Perhaps it is > something that I know by another name. > Cheers > Hugh >>   Greetings Hugh:   Barge Cement is a brand name for a leather cement used in shoe making and shoe repair. It is a type of rubber cement with a very volatile = hydrocarbon carrier like acetone. You must use it in a well-ventilated area or get bombed and brain-damaged in the process (that explains a lot with me). It = is strong and tenacious to the point of annoyance if you get it on you or applied where you don't want it. All good shoe repair and leather crafts stores have it. It is completely water resistant to the point that I have =   had the Russian River just north of me flood over a regulator which completely came apart, except for the connections between the gussets and = the rib leathers where I used Barge Cement. Sorry, I don't know what would be = a comparable product outside of the US.   Regards,   Al  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Glue From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:05:34 -0700   'Tis a contact cement made and used almost exclusively in the cobblers trade, hence its suitability for gluing patches on old, decrepit = regulators such as are normally found in old, decrepit pipe organs, which are the = only kind I can afford to work on... ;-)     At 03:17 PM 7/23/01 -0400, Hugh Knapton wrote: >One question from your message... What is barge glue? In my British & >Canadian training I have never encountered the term ... Perhaps it is >something that I know by another name.     Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Glue From: "Steven Paul Durham" <sdurham11@home.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:08:47 -0700   List:   I've never tried the fish glue but am curious to know how effective it is and how you use it. Is it melted like the hide glue and is it smelly? I would appreciate any information.   Steven Durham ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Glue     'Tis a contact cement made and used almost exclusively in the cobblers trade, hence its suitability for gluing patches on old, decrepit regulators such as are normally found in old, decrepit pipe organs, which are the only kind I can afford to work on... ;-)     At 03:17 PM 7/23/01 -0400, Hugh Knapton wrote: >One question from your message... What is barge glue? In my British & >Canadian training I have never encountered the term ... Perhaps it is >something that I know by another name.     Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com     DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Glue From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:12:02 -0700   >List: > >I've never tried the fish glue but am curious to know how effective it >is and how you use it. Is it melted like the hide glue and is it >smelly? I would appreciate any information.   It comes already liquid in a container. is water-soluble so you can dilute if needed. Has a very faint odor, not really unpleasant, and nothing like raw fish! It appears to hold just as well as hide glue, except you have a longer setup time. great for short runs like an offset chest pneumatics.   John V --  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Glue From: <DEMPAR1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:31:01 EDT   >I've never tried the fish glue but am curious to know how effective it is and how you use it. Is it melted like the hide glue and is it smelly? I would appreciate any information<   The fish glue is liquid at room temperature. It has a little odor prior to = drying but not as bad as hide glue. It comes in a squeeze bottle much like = ketchup. I have used both this glue and hot hide glue to a great extent = having releathered two theatre organs in the last two years. I find the = fish glue better for small "in the field" patch jobs. It takes longer to = set up so in releathering small pneumatics, the leather strips tend to = slide off the surfaces where with hot glue, they immediately stick and = hold. It may just be a personal preference but I can do much neater work = with hot glue.