DIYAPASON-L Digest #354 - Thursday, July 26, 2001
 
Buzzy Diapasons
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Intro
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
(TJOR)  The Joys of Releathering
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Chest magnet ohms
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Chest magnet ohms
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs] (TJOR) The Joys of Releathering
  by "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: [Residence Organs] (TJOR) The Joys of Releath
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Pouch boards
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Buzzy Diapasons From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:31:29 -0400   Hello friends,   I know this gets into that touchy subject of voicing. But I have quite a few Diapason ranks that all have 1/4 cutups and mild nicking. On at least a couple of the ranks, around the 1' pitch, there are maybe 4 pipes or so that sound "harsh" or what I would call "buzzy or strained" sounding. I have tried to make some minor adjustments to these pipes moving the upper and lower lips with little success. I have compared them to their normal sounding neighbors but can't find an obvious physical difference. The things I'm wondering about is languid height, and how sharp or dull the upper lip should be. As it stands, some pipes vary in timbre, some with more upper harmonics, some more dull sounding right next to each other. This is obviously a "voicing" thing, but does anyone have any simple steps to try? I have a few pipe tools from OSI and eventually would like to get some voicing videos, as I really want to learn more about the art.   Thanks, Eric Sagmuller  
(back) Subject: Intro From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:53:55 EDT     Hi,   On a lark I decided to search yahoo groups to see what came up for = antiques and collectables.   I'm in the midwest and work for a Dobson, who builds all mechanical pipe organs for churches. I am also rebuilding a 9 rank now expanding to about = 13 ranks 1930 pipe organ salvaged from a church about 5 years ago for my = home. The organ takes up what was the guest bedroom, and I had to take out the ceiling in the living room for the 14 foot high facade I built for it, and =   the wind system takes up a room in the basement. Hopefully I will have something working on it by the fall :)   I also like fire department equipment, specifically; Gamewell city fire = alarm boxes and brass/cast iron boiler pressure gauges, church architecture and =   related items, so I have several very ornate bronze altar candlestick = holders from the 19th century, a stained glass window and some carved woodwork.       Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: (TJOR) The Joys of Releathering From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:56:20 EDT     Well I'm glad to say I have my smaller reservoir 36x36 all twill taped and =   ready now for a new curtain valve cloth and leather :)   I Rec'd a 15 sq ft skin and 3 # of hyde glue from OSI, and wow were they =   fast, it arrived in 2 days! Now all cut into strips and skived. I cut my strips a little wider = (1-7/8") than we do at Dobson, and then made use of their handy old electric workhorse, the skiving machine, to skive the edges of all the strips.   The machine resembles an old sewing machine and the first time I tried to = use it months ago it tore chunks out of the leather and didn't work for me, so = I asked our expert and he said the leather I was trying to skive on it was = too thin for the setting. So today with my strips it performed effortlessly and flawlessly, almost running itself. I cut about 15 strips about 5 feet long and have to buy another skin for the 30x48 reservoir unfortunately :( Unlike Moller, we also put leather strips on over the twill INSIDE the = center hinge (rib to rib hindge) So far so good but I'm not thrilled with doing the gussets and toes for = the first time.     I've been working the past few days on cleaning and repairing all the = metal pipes in my swell, which is;   Vio Diap., lead Vio Cel, spotted, very thin and delicate Oboe, lead and lead/zinc St Diap. wood   Can't imagine how dirty the lead pipes were , and how difficult it was to remove these wierd dark stains on the surface that looked like something splashed on or even remnants of the old flux from soldering the seams, = finger and hand prints that left marks etc. I used a pipe cleaner that worked = well to take the oxydation and dirt off but the other stuff took some serious elbow grease with 0000 steel wool to eventually get off.   Now all the lead and spotted metal pipes look shiney, dirt, stain and spot =   free. The bottom 17 pipes of the Vio Diap are zinc, none of them appeared = to have been lacquered so they were absolutely horrid looking. I wound up = taking 0000 steel wool to 11 of them so far to remove the oxydation powder and surface roughness and then lacquered them with a couple or three good = coats of satin. Now they are nice and smooth, and clean looking. The other 6, C-1 to F6 I =   will get done soon too.   I figured if I always handle the pipes with white cotton gloves now that = they are cleaned, that will avoid stains from fingerprints. Wonder if there's anything that can be applied to keep them shiney, the lacquer works but it does dull the metal to a grey pewter-like appearance.   I also lacquered the oboes since the larger ones have zinc but have to = miter 6 of the largest and repair 3 others.     I ordered 300 chest magnet gaskets for the swell, hopefully by the weekend = I can start installing all the magnets on the two chests and start hooking = up the wires inside.   Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Chest magnet ohms From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:57:12 EDT   I'm in the process of installing some of the chest magnets in the first = chest and now I'm seeing some slight differences between magents.   The Moller originally had Moller "Pat Pend" 90 OHM adjustable magnets, = some were replaced with 150 OHM Reisner non adjustable magnets. I salvaged = about 150 almost new Reisner 150 OHM magnets, all tested in pefect order, and I salvaged all of the Kilgen's magnets which have a brass plate that is held =   down with a clasp instead of the Reisner style screw in caps. I find some of the 150 OHM magnets are stamped "Reisner" while many have nothing at all, still others have an actual patent number; 1907175 which = I looked up and found was file patented by a name I never saw, in 1928 and granted in 1933. The no name magnets have a certain sized port, the Reisner named ones seem = to have a port that is about 1mm larger, and yet others seem to have ports = that are larger still. The latter largest port sized still say 150 OHM on the = coil paper wraps but also have an additional number like 1A GE or GH   Functionally they all do the same job, and I am trying to keep the 150 = OHM models all on the same rank, and using the few with the largest ports in =   the bottom octave, but does anyone have any idea if mixing these either = with different sized ports or 90's and 150's is going to cause a problem with = pipe speech/consistancy or something else?   Randall  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Chest magnet ohms From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:10:18 -0700   Hi, Randall. I believe the different sized ports were made to be used on different pressures, the higher pressures requiring a smaller port so that they would function. On the low pressures normally used by Moller = (usually 5" or so) they should all work OK.   At 01:57 PM 7/26/01 EDT, Mpmollerorgan@aol.com wrote: >The no name magnets have a certain sized port, the Reisner named ones = seem to >have a port that is about 1mm larger, and yet others seem to have ports = that >are larger still. >does anyone have any idea if mixing these either with >different sized ports or 90's and 150's is going to cause a problem with >pipe >speech/consistancy or something else?     Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] (TJOR) The Joys of Releathering From: "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:56:06   Hi Randall, I was wondering what kind of lacquer you are using for the metal pipes. In =   the local hardware stores here in montreal I have seen only Sheaffer brand =   metal lacquer { extremely expensive stuff} and then there is tremclad = clear topcoat which is in the price range of most polyurethanes.I don't exactly =   know what the top coat is made of but it sits on lacquer solvent and the consistency is supposedly adjustable with lacquer thinner. The tremclad = line also sells a "metal conditioner" which is I think similar to the laukhuff metal cleaner in that phosphoric acid is the main ingredient. I've asked = the formulation chemist of a local finish manufacturer but didn't get much info. I'd like to use lacquer/topcoat for tin/lead alloy pipes as well = as the zinc pipes. Some of the zinc pipes I have were coated with shellac = which has peeled. I ahve removed the old shellac with steel wool and methanol = and would like to spray a clear finish on them. I plan to try the refinishing = on dummy facade pipes but would like also to refinish some of my singing = metal pipes. Homer >From: Mpmollerorgan@aol.com >Reply-To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >To: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Subject: [Residence Organs] (TJOR) The Joys of Releathering >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:56:20 EDT > > >Well I'm glad to say I have my smaller reservoir 36x36 all twill taped = and >ready now for a new curtain valve cloth and leather :) > >I Rec'd a 15 sq ft skin and 3 # of hyde glue from OSI, and wow were = they >fast, it arrived in 2 days! >Now all cut into strips and skived. I cut my strips a little wider >(1-7/8") >than we do at Dobson, and then made use of their handy old electric >workhorse, the skiving machine, to skive the edges of all the strips. > >The machine resembles an old sewing machine and the first time I tried to =   >use >it months ago it tore chunks out of the leather and didn't work for me, = so >I >asked our expert and he said the leather I was trying to skive on it was >too >thin for the setting. >So today with my strips it performed effortlessly and flawlessly, almost >running itself. I cut about 15 strips about 5 feet long and have to buy >another skin for the 30x48 reservoir unfortunately :( >Unlike Moller, we also put leather strips on over the twill INSIDE the >center >hinge (rib to rib hindge) >So far so good but I'm not thrilled with doing the gussets and toes for = the >first time. > > >I've been working the past few days on cleaning and repairing all the = metal >pipes in my swell, which is; > >Vio Diap., lead >Vio Cel, spotted, very thin and delicate >Oboe, lead and lead/zinc >St Diap. wood > >Can't imagine how dirty the lead pipes were , and how difficult it was to >remove these wierd dark stains on the surface that looked like something >splashed on or even remnants of the old flux from soldering the seams, >finger >and hand prints that left marks etc. I used a pipe cleaner that worked = well >to take the oxydation and dirt off but the other stuff took some serious >elbow grease with 0000 steel wool to eventually get off. > >Now all the lead and spotted metal pipes look shiney, dirt, stain and = spot >free. The bottom 17 pipes of the Vio Diap are zinc, none of them appeared =   >to >have been lacquered so they were absolutely horrid looking. I wound up >taking >0000 steel wool to 11 of them so far to remove the oxydation powder and >surface roughness and then lacquered them with a couple or three good = coats >of satin. >Now they are nice and smooth, and clean looking. The other 6, C-1 to F6 = I >will get done soon too. > >I figured if I always handle the pipes with white cotton gloves now that >they >are cleaned, that will avoid stains from fingerprints. >Wonder if there's anything that can be applied to keep them shiney, the >lacquer works but it does dull the metal to a grey pewter-like = appearance. > >I also lacquered the oboes since the larger ones have zinc but have to >miter >6 of the largest and repair 3 others. > > >I ordered 300 chest magnet gaskets for the swell, hopefully by the = weekend >I >can start installing all the magnets on the two chests and start hooking = up >the wires inside. > >Randall >http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/ > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >     _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: [Residence Organs] (TJOR) The Joys of Releathering From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:51:15 EDT     In a message dated 7/26/01 1:57:18 PM, dochome@hotmail.com writes:   >Hi Randall, >I was wondering what kind of lacquer you are using for the metal pipes.   Hi Homer, I used the satin Sherwin Williams 24% solids Medium rubbed effect lacquer = we use on all the wood. It comes in 5 gallon cans, it is then thinned with 5 gallons of lacquer thinner to make 10 gallons total. Of course we use a large walk-in spray booth with a 1 gallon pressure pot sprayer.   >The tremclad line also sells a "metal conditioner" which is I think = similar to the laukhuff >metal cleaner in that phosphoric acid is the main ingredient. I've asked >the formulation chemist of a local finish manufacturer but didn't get = much >info.   Bah, I honestly don't think one has to go to all that and I don't know, applying an acid on zinc pipes is probably not a great idea, plus you = would have to wash the pipes and it's my understanding washing zinc pipes is a = no no. Seems the water can start a corrosion process inside the pipe which is =   bare metal, and then you have that white powder oxide inside.   What I did was use lacquer thinner and a rag on the outsides of the zinc pipes to remove any finish (there was none) dirt and oils from finger = prints. Then when dry I went over the pipes with 0000 steel wool pads and that smoothed the surface nicely without scratching or removing the old = crystalene color pattern of the zinc. Then for good measure I wiped them down again = with a clean rag and lacquer thinner. Then I sprayed them with 3 light coats of the finish. They look nice and = it protects the metal. The lead and spotted pipes I used dow bathroom cleaner which is about = the best thing we have found. We tried a number of so called "pipe cleaners" = sold by some of the organ outfits and they just didn't eem to work as well. One = by Peterson music... something or other was the closest runner-up. I used 0000 steel wool and the dow on the lead and spotted metal pipes and =   they shine like new, the lead I noticed tho tends to discolor in minutes = as the water dries, more so if using hot water. Maybe the chlorine or = minerals in the water perhaps. So I waited till they were completely dry, donned = some plain white cotton gloves and went over those with the steel wool again, = but DRY and that removed all of that. Once cleaned though I will only be handling them with cotton gloves, one thing I noticed when I was cleaning the pipes was all of the smudges, fingerprints and curious stains that were left almost permanently on the pipes and were difficult to remove. The oils from the hands as well as = sweat which contains salts really does a number on metal after a while. There = were a few lead pipes that I really really had to work hard, long and multiple times to remove the stains, marks, fingerprints, corrosion and oxydation.       >I'd like to use lacquer/topcoat for tin/lead alloy pipes as well >as the zinc pipes. Some of the zinc pipes I have were coated with = shellac >which has peeled. I ahve removed the old shellac with steel wool and methanol   Eww, methanol doesn't sound good to breathe/get on the skin, for shellac I =   have used plain denatured alcohol but lacquer thinner (prolly as bad as methanol) also works. I was may toy with the idea of spraying those too, but I probably won't, = the spray WILL dull the metal by the way. I'm really thinking that not = handling those pipes with the bare hands fixes 99% of the problem   >and would like to spray a clear finish on them. I plan to try the refinishing >on dummy facade pipes but would like also to refinish some of my = singing >metal pipes. >Homer   I painted and stencilled my metal dummy facade pipes, they are real = working pipes just not winded.   Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Pouch boards From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:20:29 EDT   I thought I would detail what I came up with for retaining the original Moller pouchboards yet using them on new unit chests.   The original pouchboards used to exahust up through the toeboard channels = and then on through the torturous pitman chest and all that to the magnets. = the pouch boards of course have the horizontal holes drilled thru one side of = the board into the wells that make up the pouches, and then a vertical hole = was drilled up thru the face of the board through the horizontal holes, and it =   was the vertical hole that carried the wind up to/through the channel = boards. Moller brown taped the edges of the boards and the top edge to cover the starting points for the vertical and the horizontal holes. What I came up with is removing the brown paper on the edge, sealing the vertical holes on top, and then insert a 1-1/2" x 5/16" brass tube nipple into the horizontal holes to the pouches. Then 5/16" ID neoprene hose slips over the brass nipple, and runs about 6 = to 8" over to the side boards of the 2 rank chests (magnet for each note and magnets running along both long sides of the chests) The oval magnet holes are all drilled on the mill, and the 3/8" exhaust holes below them are also drilled. I will be inserting 1-1/2" x 3/8 OD aluminum tube as a nipple into those holes, and the neoprene hose can be stretched over them. I'm using aluminum for that size only because the brass that diameter is about twice the cost! I found a great place on the web to order the tubing, small quantities no minimum order, and for now ordered 8' of each for about $44 with the = shipping   The system should work well. The magnets will have a common copper ground wire, one per rank which will go to a relay one per rank, and the relay = will be activated by the stop tabs on the console. So the stop tabs will close = the ground via a relay for each rank. I won't be "borrowing" from 8' ranks to get pseudo 4' stops as it was = done originally, I really don't like those shortcuts. I will have an = independant 4' rank on the great.     The drawback was having to get a chest magnet for every pipe, but the simplicity of the chests, and that I can lift and work on any of them with =   ease, and that the bottom boards and toeboards all come off to leave just = the shell which I can work on is nice. As a bonus I supose, it's much easier to be able to flip the chests over = to install the magnets and wiring, soldering etc due to how I designed and built them 3 years ago! They have been sitting 3 years waiting for the = work I'm doing now on them and I'm glad I don't have to lay on my back to = solder magnets in!!         Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/