DIYAPASON-L Digest #341 - Friday, June 15, 2001
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Saville available
  by "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Saville available
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@home.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Saville available
  by "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us>
Re: Enclosures
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Visit to a residence organ project
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Saville available From: "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:51:05 -0500   --=3D_B7EDABDC.0F6EF313 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   F. Richard as I understand it the organ was given to another church and when they did = =3D that I don't know where it went to , this organ was installed in the late = =3D 60's or early 70s' and in it's day it may have been a good organ but it = =3D would bevelope problems even as the weather changed and that is no =3D exaggeration , if the church got a little to warm a psysfer , stops would = =3D bleed threw , the combination action would rarely work , I mean Saville = =3D was a good organ I don't mean to offend anyone but this organ just did not = =3D live up to the expectations of a good electronic organ , it could well =3D have been the installer .=3D20   >>> effarbee@home.com 06/14/01 08:47PM >>>=3D20 Rick wrote:=3D20   > I can remember I had applied for an organist position here=3D20 > in Nashville, and they had a Saville 3 manual.....=3D20   * * *=3D20   > I had done some checking and apparently Saville installed=3D20 > there organs with out the idea of anyone taking them out=3D20 > they did not use color coded wire=3D20   That is true, especially in the keying system. However, they=3D20 provided spares in case insulation broke down and it was not=3D20 at all difficult to trace a faulty wire and replace it with=3D20 one provided.=3D20   > the mountain of speakers that was with this organ was more=3D20 > than the church would ever use in a life time , Saville=3D20 > approach to building an organ was the right one but the=3D20 > quality was poor , I think that this church had purchased=3D20 > a Rodgers / pipe combo.=3D20   There were two quality angles involved:=3D20   1. Quality of manufacturing=3D20   2. Quality of installation.=3D20   Most of the organ with which I was familiar were installed=3D20 by factory people. These organs usually sounded very good.=3D20   Then, they developed a dealer network, which was their demise.=3D20 The dealers, business merchants that they normally were, did=3D20 not have a clue how to make them sound as an organ should.=3D20   Since I still take care of some of these organs, I can tell=3D20 you that, compared with what we have available today, they=3D20 fall flat. In the 1960s and early 1970s, they were "state of=3D20 the art."=3D20   TO THE POINT - - - Is this organ still available? I may=3D20 have a use for it.=3D20   Appreciatively,=3D20 F. Richard Burt=3D20 effarbee@home.com=3D20   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own=3D20 Residence Pipe Organs.=3D20 HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=3D20 List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=3D20 Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=3D20   --=3D_B7EDABDC.0F6EF313 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type=3D > <META content=3D3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1706"' name=3D3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY style=3D3D"FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: = =3D 2px"> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D1>F. Richard</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D1>as I understand it the organ was given to another = =3D church and=3D20 when they did that I don't know where it went to , this organ was =3D installed in=3D20 the late 60's or early 70s' and in it's day it may have been a good organ = =3D but it=3D20 would bevelope problems even as the weather changed and that is no =3D exaggeration=3D20 , if the church got a little to warm a psysfer , stops would bleed threw , = =3D the=3D20 combination action would rarely work , I mean Saville was a good organ I = =3D don't=3D20 mean to offend anyone but this organ just did not live up to the = expectatio=3D ns of=3D20 a good electronic organ , it could well have been the installer .=3D20 </FONT><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; effarbee@home.com 06/14/01 08:47PM = &gt;&gt;&gt;=3D =3D20 <BR>Rick wrote: <BR><BR>&gt; I can remember I had applied for an =3D organist=3D20 position here <BR>&gt; in Nashville, and they had a Saville 3 manual.....=3D =3D20 <BR><BR>* * * <BR><BR>&gt; I had done some checking and apparently =3D Saville=3D20 installed <BR>&gt; there organs with out the idea of anyone taking them = =3D out=3D20 <BR>&gt; they did not use color coded wire <BR><BR>That is true, = especially=3D in=3D20 the keying system. However, they <BR>provided spares in case insulation = =3D broke=3D20 down and it was not <BR>at all difficult to trace a faulty wire and =3D replace it=3D20 with <BR>one provided. <BR><BR>&gt; the mountain of speakers that was with = =3D this=3D20 organ was more <BR>&gt; than the church would ever use in a life time , = =3D Saville=3D20 <BR>&gt; approach to building an organ was the right one but the =3D <BR>&gt;=3D20 quality was poor , I think that this church had purchased <BR>&gt; a =3D Rodgers /=3D20 pipe combo. <BR><BR>There were two quality angles involved: <BR><BR>1. =3D Quality=3D20 of manufacturing <BR><BR>2. Quality of installation. <BR><BR>Most of the = =3D organ=3D20 with which I was familiar were installed <BR>by factory people. These =3D organs=3D20 usually sounded very good. <BR><BR>Then, they developed a dealer network, = =3D which=3D20 was their demise. <BR>The dealers, business merchants that they normally = =3D were,=3D20 did <BR>not have a clue how to make them sound as an organ should. =3D <BR><BR>Since=3D20 I still take care of some of these organs, I can tell <BR>you that, =3D compared=3D20 with what we have available today, they <BR>fall flat. In the 1960s and = =3D early=3D20 1970s, they were &quot;state of <BR>the art.&quot; <BR><BR>TO THE POINT - = =3D - - Is=3D20 this organ still available? I may <BR>have a use for it. = <BR><BR>Appreciati=3D vely,=3D20 <BR>F. Richard Burt <BR><U><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:effarbee@home.com">effarbee@home.com</A></U> = <BR><BR>DIYAPAS=3D ON-L: a=3D20 Discussion list for owners and builders of their own <BR>Residence Pipe = =3D Organs.=3D20 <BR>HOMEPAGE : <U><A=3D20 href=3D3D"http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org/">http://www.diyapason.pipechat= .o=3D rg</A></U>=3D20 <BR>List: <U><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org">mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org<= /A=3D ></U>=3D20 <BR>Administration: <U><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org">mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipec= ha=3D t.org</A></U>=3D20 <BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>   --=3D_B7EDABDC.0F6EF313--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Saville available From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@home.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:10:21 -0500   John Calvo wrote: > F. Richard > as I understand it the organ was given to another church and > when they did that I don't know where it went to , > this organ was installed in the late 60's or early 70s' and > in it's day it may have been a good organ but it > would bevelope problems even as the weather changed and that > is no exaggeration , if the church got a little > to warm a psysfer , stops would bleed threw , the combination > action would rarely work , I mean Saville was a good organ > I don't mean to offend anyone but this organ just did not live > up to the expectations of a good electronic organ , it could > well have been the installer. No offense taken. I'm here to back up you claims. I've seen both sides of Saville, the good and the bad. ...and of the bad, I had one that just about killed me. However, I have some that are still playing today. I maintain them, giving them a good tuning about once every five years, whether they need it or not. <grins> These are, obviously, among the good ones they built. If you ask for a recommendation from these churches, they will tell you something like, "...all electronic organs should be this good." Now, put on you best thinking cap and figure what will go out in 20 to 30 years. These old organs will be needing new power capacitors soon. That a grunt job that I dislike, but if you want the power supply to put out properly, it has to be done. There are various kinds of capacitors in the electronics. Some affect the sound. If I listen carefully, I hear slight changes in sound from what we had originally. The changes have settled so gradually that most of the people in the church do not know they are there, but the end result is that it doesn't sound quite as good as it did. Then you have the much better sounds from the newer generation of digital organs to campare those old analog organs against. This is where people begin to hear differences quickly. Those old Savilles could be among the best sounding organs built with analog technology. We are maturing in our understanding of what we expect in an electronic organ today. I'm excited about how much better it will get over the next 10 to 20 years. If I come through Tennessee sometime, I would like to meet you. Appreciatively, F. Richard Burt effarbee@home.com  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Saville available From: "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:33:39 -0500   --=3D_9BC187C8.7C1D8044 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   Richard=3D20 as I remember it that Saville was put in by a guy from Knoxville, tn and = =3D as I remember he told me that he had not serviced that organ in what was = =3D then had been about 15 to 20 years , and yes you are right that Caps. in = =3D any electronic effect the over all performance of any thing be it a Radio = =3D or electronic organ , especially filter caps. I have got on a deal two of = =3D the old model E Hammond organs and I know with out a doubt in my mind that = =3D those caps. in those two organ will get changed out , it has been my =3D experience that any organ with any age on it will need these minor repairs = =3D and it would be to the churches or organist benefit if they would take an = =3D interest in the Matane of the organ , aside of just setting down to play ! I wish someone would offer a course " preventive organ Matane for the =3D Sunday organist "=3D20   I agree with you that the next generation of organ should be very good and = =3D the tonal quality should be really clear and precise , but I will tell you = =3D my personal opinion is of the organs in the Tube generation , I think that = =3D those organs had a warmer sound that those of today I am not trying to =3D discredit any one , but it is my presence for the tubes john   >>> effarbee@home.com 06/15/01 10:10AM >>>=3D20 John Calvo wrote:=3D20   > F. Richard=3D20 > as I understand it the organ was given to another church and=3D20 > when they did that I don't know where it went to ,=3D20 > this organ was installed in the late 60's or early 70s' and=3D20 > in it's day it may have been a good organ but it=3D20 > would bevelope problems even as the weather changed and that=3D20 > is no exaggeration , if the church got a little=3D20 > to warm a psysfer , stops would bleed threw , the combination=3D20 > action would rarely work , I mean Saville was a good organ=3D20 > I don't mean to offend anyone but this organ just did not live=3D20 > up to the expectations of a good electronic organ , it could=3D20 > well have been the installer.=3D20   No offense taken. I'm here to back up you claims. I've seen=3D20 both sides of Saville, the good and the bad. ...and of the=3D20 bad, I had one that just about killed me. However, I have=3D20 some that are still playing today. I maintain them, giving=3D20 them a good tuning about once every five years, whether they=3D20 need it or not. <grins> These are, obviously, among the good=3D20 ones they built. If you ask for a recommendation from these=3D20 churches, they will tell you something like, "...all electronic=3D20 organs should be this good."=3D20   Now, put on you best thinking cap and figure what will go out=3D20 in 20 to 30 years. These old organs will be needing new power=3D20 capacitors soon. That a grunt job that I dislike, but if you=3D20 want the power supply to put out properly, it has to be done.=3D20   There are various kinds of capacitors in the electronics. Some=3D20 affect the sound. If I listen carefully, I hear slight changes=3D20 in sound from what we had originally. The changes have settled=3D20 so gradually that most of the people in the church do not know=3D20 they are there, but the end result is that it doesn't sound=3D20 quite as good as it did.=3D20   Then you have the much better sounds from the newer generation=3D20 of digital organs to campare those old analog organs against.=3D20 This is where people begin to hear differences quickly. Those=3D20 old Savilles could be among the best sounding organs built with=3D20 analog technology. We are maturing in our understanding of=3D20 what we expect in an electronic organ today. I'm excited about=3D20 how much better it will get over the next 10 to 20 years.=3D20   If I come through Tennessee sometime, I would like to meet you.=3D20   Appreciatively,=3D20 F. Richard Burt=3D20 effarbee@home.com=3D20   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own=3D20 Residence Pipe Organs.=3D20 HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=3D20 List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=3D20 Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=3D20   --=3D_9BC187C8.7C1D8044 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type=3D > <META content=3D3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1706"' name=3D3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY style=3D3D"FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: = =3D 2px"> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D1>Richard </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D1>as I remember it that Saville was put in by a guy = =3D from=3D20 Knoxville, tn and as I remember he told me that he had not serviced that = =3D organ=3D20 in what was then had been about 15 to 20 years , and yes you are right =3D that=3D20 Caps. in any electronic effect the over all performance of any thing be it = =3D a=3D20 Radio or electronic organ , especially filter caps. I have got on a deal = =3D two of=3D20 the old model E Hammond organs and I know with out a doubt in my mind that = =3D those=3D20 caps. in those two organ will get changed out , it has been my experience = =3D that=3D20 any organ with any age on it will need these minor repairs and it would be = =3D to=3D20 the churches or organist benefit if they would take an interest in the =3D Matane of=3D20 the organ , aside of just setting down to play !</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D1>I wish someone would offer a course &quot; = preventive =3D organ=3D20 Matane for the Sunday organist &quot; </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D1>I agree with you that the next generation of organ = =3D should be=3D20 very good and the tonal quality should be really clear and precise , but I = =3D will=3D20 tell you my personal opinion is of the organs in the Tube generation , I = =3D think=3D20 that those organs had a warmer sound that those of today I am not trying = =3D to=3D20 discredit any one , but it is my presence for the tubes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D1>john</FONT><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; <A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:effarbee@home.com">effarbee@home.com</A> 06/15/01 = 10:10AM=3D20=3D   &gt;&gt;&gt; <BR>John Calvo wrote: <BR><BR>&gt; F. Richard <BR>&gt; as =3D I=3D20 understand it the organ was given to another church and <BR>&gt; when they = =3D did=3D20 that I don't know where it went to , <BR>&gt; this organ was installed in = =3D the=3D20 late 60's or early 70s' and <BR>&gt; in it's day it may have been a good = =3D organ=3D20 but it <BR>&gt; would bevelope problems even as the weather changed and = =3D that=3D20 <BR>&gt; is no exaggeration , if the church got a little <BR>&gt; to warm = =3D a=3D20 psysfer , stops would bleed threw , the combination <BR>&gt; action would = =3D rarely=3D20 work , I mean Saville was a good organ <BR>&gt; I don't mean to offend =3D anyone=3D20 but this organ just did not live <BR>&gt; up to the expectations of a =3D good=3D20 electronic organ , it could <BR>&gt; well have been the installer. =3D <BR><BR>No=3D20 offense taken. I'm here to back up you claims. I've seen <BR>both sides = =3D of=3D20 Saville, the good and the bad. ...and of the <BR>bad, I had one that just = =3D about=3D20 killed me. However, I have <BR>some that are still playing today. I =3D maintain=3D20 them, giving <BR>them a good tuning about once every five years, whether = =3D they=3D20 <BR>need it or not. &lt;grins&gt; These are, obviously, among the good =3D <BR>ones=3D20 they built. If you ask for a recommendation from these <BR>churches, they = =3D will=3D20 tell you something like, &quot;...all electronic <BR>organs should be =3D this=3D20 good.&quot; <BR><BR>Now, put on you best thinking cap and figure what will = =3D go=3D20 out <BR>in 20 to 30 years. These old organs will be needing new power=3D20 <BR>capacitors soon. That a grunt job that I dislike, but if you <BR>want = =3D the=3D20 power supply to put out properly, it has to be done. <BR><BR>There are =3D various=3D20 kinds of capacitors in the electronics. Some <BR>affect the sound. If I = =3D listen=3D20 carefully, I hear slight changes <BR>in sound from what we had originally. = =3D The=3D20 changes have settled <BR>so gradually that most of the people in the =3D church do=3D20 not know <BR>they are there, but the end result is that it doesn't =3D sound=3D20 <BR>quite as good as it did. <BR><BR>Then you have the much better sounds = =3D from=3D20 the newer generation <BR>of digital organs to campare those old analog =3D organs=3D20 against. <BR>This is where people begin to hear differences quickly. =3D Those=3D20 <BR>old Savilles could be among the best sounding organs built with =3D <BR>analog=3D20 technology. We are maturing in our understanding of <BR>what we expect in = =3D an=3D20 electronic organ today. I'm excited about <BR>how much better it will get = =3D over=3D20 the next 10 to 20 years. <BR><BR>If I come through Tennessee sometime, I = =3D would=3D20 like to meet you. <BR><BR>Appreciatively, <BR>F. Richard Burt = <BR><U><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:effarbee@home.com">effarbee@home.com</A></U> = <BR><BR>DIYAPAS=3D ON-L: a=3D20 Discussion list for owners and builders of their own <BR>Residence Pipe = =3D Organs.=3D20 <BR>HOMEPAGE : <U><A=3D20 href=3D3D"http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org/">http://www.diyapason.pipechat= .o=3D rg</A></U>=3D20 <BR>List: <U><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org">mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org<= /A=3D ></U>=3D20 <BR>Administration: <U><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org">mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipec= ha=3D t.org</A></U>=3D20 <BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>   --=3D_9BC187C8.7C1D8044--  
(back) Subject: Re: Enclosures From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:49:28 -0400   If you are building a stand-alone enclosure that will also serve as a = swell box, you might arrange the wall structure such that the inner surface is not linked to the outer surface (except at edges and corners that are already immobile). In terms of standard (USA!) construction lumber (which I am *not* suggesting you actually use for your swell box!), make the top and bottom plates out of 2*6 lumber and the studs out of 2*4 lumber. Alternate the studs so that you will attach the inner wall surface to the "even" studs and the outer surface to the "odd" ones. You can also weave = a blanket of insulation or other sound-dampening amongst the studs so as to further help prevent sound from escaping via the walls.   Masonite (the "tempered" variety with the hard surface) was used by Aeolian-Skinner for the inside (and outside?) surfaces of swell box walls, and it has good reflective properties (but by itself is rather flimsy). I've seen one large Hinners with Celotex for the swell box interior walls -- that soaked up the sound like a sponge, even when the shutters were open!   A simple way to add even more stiffness to Sheetrock walls is to glue two layers together. The glue will bond the two sheets into a single sheet = and will do so much more effectively than simply nailing or screwing the = sheets to the studs or using "construction adhesive" in a tube. You can use = white or yellow glues like Elmer's or Titebond, thinned with equal parts of water, and applied with a paint roller. This is not difficult to do and the glue will even help hold the sheets in place until you nail or screw them. Get a good quantity of glue -- you'll use up quite a lot!   Larry Chace          
(back) Subject: Visit to a residence organ project From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:02:57 -0400   I recently had the opportunity to visit an on-going residence organ = project that was quite interesting. The owner, a professional organ builder, has constructed an organ chamber onto his nineteenth-century house, the = chamber measuring 14 feet square and 12 feet high, with its floor about 3 feet below the living room floor. The chamber has Wurlitzer "studio" swell shades that open into the living room; these shades are lined with = Celotex. Access to the chamber is via a door from the first-floor bathroom, a = rather unusual means of access!   In the chamber right now are several 16' bottom octaves. On the back wall is a 12-note set of Link Tibia/Bourdon pipes; these are the ones with a normal flue (Tibia) and a half-width one (Bourdon). On one side wall are the bottom 12 of the 16' Trombone (Dennison), and a small-scale Wurlitzer 16' Diaphone. On the ceiling, with a chest on the back wall, are the bottom 12 pipes of an (Austin?) 16' Viole, perhaps about 56 scale (the = size of a normal 8' Dulciana). In each case, the chests are being rebuilt *before* they get installed.   In the largely empty center of the chamber he hopes to installed perhaps a dozen (or 15?) ranks of theater pipework. I didn't have time to ask = *what* ranks those will be, but I'm sure it will be a well-balanced theatre specification. I also don't know what type of console, blower, relay (etc.) will be used. He did say that he wants to be sure that the organ = is not overpowering in the living room. (I'd guess that the plush Victorian carpeting there will provide quite a bit of attenuation!)   It was very encouraging to see a project that was being done so neatly and professionally. Too many folks are unable to resist the temptation to "just get something playing temporarily" and then they never get beyond that point. (I say, having 1 rank playing "temporarily" in my own = chamber!)   Larry Chace