DIYAPASON-L Digest #278 - Friday, March 9, 2001
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  building windchests
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
RE: [Residence Organs]  expanding an organ (trying again)
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
RE: expanding an organ (trying again)
  by "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Wind Conductor Sizing Question
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
RE: [Residence Organs] organ specs
  by "steve c bournias" <chrisbournias@hotmail.com>
[Residence Organs]  RE: [Residence Organs] organ specs
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
RE: [Residence Organs]  RE: expanding an organ
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
RE: [Residence Organs]  RE: combination action
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
RE: [Residence Organs]  RE: combination action
  by "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] building windchests From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:40:52 EST     --part1_97.123eaab4.27d9c6e4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi all,I like the single hole countersinks they don't chatter.If you can = only find in your area multi flute,grind all the cutting edges off but one and that will cut smoothly.My biggest one is multi flute and this stopped the chattering.The smaller ones are the Weldon that have one hole in them and they work great.They are in J&L catalog, and they are on line I think. = Maybe Grainger has them. Have fun. Dennis   --part1_97.123eaab4.27d9c6e4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi all,I like the = single hole countersinks they don't chatter.If you can only <BR>find in your area multi flute,grind all the cutting edges off but one = and <BR>that will cut smoothly.My biggest one is multi flute and this stopped = the <BR>chattering.The smaller ones are the Weldon that have one hole in them = and <BR>they work great.They are in J&amp;L catalog, and they are on line I = think. Maybe <BR>Grainger has them. <BR>Have fun. <BR>Dennis</FONT></HTML>   --part1_97.123eaab4.27d9c6e4_boundary--  
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] expanding an organ (trying again) From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:26:05 -0600       How difficult is it to add ranks to an existing organ? I want to eventually have a residence organ of about 8 to 10 ranks.I will probably = buy a 4 to 5 rank organ in the near future since organs of this size are typicaly available on COT and TO classifieds .Larger organs for sale (in = my price range) are not common.3, 4 and 5 rank organs show up all the time = for sale So, I think I would have to be able to expand an instrument to reach = my goal.I am not too worried about getting a larger blower, or expanding the winding,there are lots of blowers for sale.There are also lots of ranks = for sale.I already have 4 complete ranks and windchests that I would like to incorporate into an organ.I am concerned that trying to add ranks to the switching mechanisms might be very difficult, especially on older 1920 and 1930 organs.I am guessing that the switching mechanism on an organ is usually designed to support exactly the number of ranks it comes with and = no more.I am also concerned that adding stops to a small console designed for = 4 or 5 ranks might be hard to do as well.I could almost imagine that I might end up having to completely rework the console and switching electronics = to do this.I know several people on the list have encountered this issue.I am not afraid of doing a lot of work.I just want to take a practical approach.Could any one share some experiences or feedback about this idea-----Original Message-----    
(back) Subject: RE: expanding an organ (trying again) From: "Larry Chace" <rlc1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:52:45 -0500   Steve Pitts asked about expanding a small instrument. I'd say that he has =   mentioned many/most of the problems, in general terms, but it is almost impossible to be more specific without having a particular instrument (and =   expansion!) in mind.   Most builder did not provide for later expansion, unless the instrument = was specifically designed that way, though a few used to provide one or two blank stoptabs or stopknobs per divison "just in case". From a purely cosmetic point of view, the console alterations are perhaps the most difficult (and important) because everyone will see them. I recall the 3m =   Aeolian-Skinner in my home church, orignally designed for 36 ranks but = with only 22 installed. The knobs were all there, many of them blank, along with 1 spare per division. When the church finally completed the organ, Moller did the work (A-S was defunct). The new specification was a bit different, and so they used all of the blank knobs, even the spares, and were still 1 short. They then used the Swell Tremulant knob for something =   else and then mounted a toggle switch right on the left end of the Swell manual. Not only was the Swell Tremulant thereafter no longer on the combination action, but there is now an ugly hole in the fine mahogany! (My father saved the manuals when the A-S console was replaced later on, but that's another story!)   Inside the organ, you can be a bit more relaxed about the additions, since =   the General Public won't see them (but fellow organ enthusiasts and professionals *will*!). Still, you have to make things work, and that can =   be easy or difficult depending upon the specific details.   Since Steve seems to be talking about a small unit organ, whose specification he posted a few days ago, let's consider that sort of instrument. Typically, but not always, the stop switching is done right = on the manuals, using slider switches. If there are spares, then it is = easier to wire up additional stops. If there are none, then you have to consider =   using some other sort of switching system instead. Sometimes, the keyboards have multiple contacts that are then wired to gang switches either in the console or in the organ chamber (less likely!). Again, if there are spare contacts, then additions are easier.   Since Steve's example had extensive couplers, it is probable that there might also be additional switching (a "relay") in the console or chamber. Does it have spare contacts?   It all depends upon the details!   Now, for many homes, a 5-rank instrument isn't a bad size. Some changing of ranks might be in order, "depending". It might prove more effective to =   use the coupler stoptabs for stops instead, converting the organ into more =   of a unit organ (some folks wouldn't like that). Again, it depends.   One further comment, Steve said the organ is an Estey. The stop names (Principal and Hohl Flute, in particular), suggest (but only suggest) that =   it might be a late one, perhaps from the 1950s when George Steinmeyer (of the German organbuilding family) was working with Estey. Earlier Esteys would have had a Diapason but not a Principal. (What's in a name?) Of course, if the organ was rebuilt at some point, then all bets are off!   Larry Chace    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Wind Conductor Sizing Question From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:16:51 -0500   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1227964284=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" ; format=3D"flowed"   I don't fully understand this either. It appears to somewhat depend on the design of the blower and the static pressure rating.   I don't know how Zephyr's compare to the Spencer's but the online Spencer manual shows the following.   400 CFM 8" line   700 CFM 10" line   I basically used this information for my project. My blower has a 12" outlet which stays 12" to the Static regulator. Then from there I have a 10" duct running to the second floor Swell chamber. My Great will be in a somewhat different location and will get an 8" line run to it. I too would have liked to use smaller duct but thought I'd better use the Spencer advice. I'd be curious to see what some other blower manufacturers recommend. I suspect that flexible wind conductor may offer a little more wind resistance and turbulence. I used Spiral duct and made MDF boxes to interface the duct.   Have fun, Eric           At 6:34 PM -0800 3/8/01, Dave McClellan wrote: >Is there some formula or guideline for sizing wind conductors (sorry >if that is not the proper term)? I need to locate the blower in my >garage. The only possible placement (allowing for parking cars >etc.) means a run of 30+ feet up and over an entrance door, back >down, through a wall into a closet, through the floor, ... you get >the idea. I have the AIO tape on windlines and hardtack, etc. That >is way beyond my capabilities. I really will have to use some sort >of flexible tubing, or possibly PVC. The wind needs of the organ >are about 750 CFM at 3.75". The blower is a 2hp Zephyr. Can I >possibly get away with using 8" (or hopefully 6") flexible tubing >between the blower in the garage and the reservoirs in the basement >(erecting room)? > >Thanks >   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1227964284=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I don't fully understand this either. It appears to somewhat depend on the design of the blower and the static pressure rating.     I don't know how Zephyr's compare to the Spencer's but the online Spencer manual shows the following.     400 CFM 8" line     700 CFM 10" line     I basically used this information for my project. My blower has a 12" outlet which stays 12" to the Static regulator. Then from there I have a 10" duct running to the second floor Swell chamber. My Great will be in a somewhat different location and will get an 8" line run to it. I too would have liked to use smaller duct but thought I'd better use the Spencer advice. I'd be curious to see what some other blower manufacturers recommend. I suspect that flexible wind conductor may offer a little more wind resistance and turbulence. I used Spiral duct and made MDF boxes to interface the duct.=3D20     Have fun,   Eric             At 6:34 PM -0800 3/8/01, Dave McClellan wrote:   <excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Is there some formula or guideline for sizing wind conductors (sorry if that is not the proper term)? I need to locate the blower in my garage. The only possible placement (allowing for parking cars etc.) means a run of 30+ feet up and over an entrance door, back down, through a wall into a closet, through the floor, ... you get the idea. I have the AIO tape on windlines and hardtack, etc. That is way beyond my capabilities. I really will have to use some sort of flexible tubing, or possibly = PVC.=3D20 The wind needs of the organ are about 750 CFM at 3.75". The blower is a 2hp Zephyr. Can I possibly get away with using 8" (or hopefully 6") flexible tubing between the blower in the garage and the reservoirs in the basement (erecting room)?=3D20   =3D20   Thanks   =3D20   </smaller></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><= /=3D smaller></fontfamily>   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1227964284=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D--  
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] organ specs From: "steve c bournias" <chrisbournias@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:24:36 -0500   salicional dolce and violina are one rank, gedeckt flute 4 are one, = celeste is one, principal is one, and hohlflute is one   >From: STEVE PITTS <steve.pitts@adtran.com> >Reply-To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] organ specs >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:53:35 -0600 > >I was given these specs on an Organ I might purchase.I was told it is a 5 >rank Organ.Somehow I am not seeing how this is a 5 rank Organ.I would = think >it would have to be at least 7 ranks since there are evidently 7 = different >8 Ft Stops.I hope it is 7 ranks.I can imagine that the 4ft Violina is >borrowed from the 8 ft Salicional and the 4 ft Flute D'Amour is borrowed >from the 8 ft Hohl Flote.Maybe my logic is flawed.(probably)....could any >one offer any guesses as to how many ranks this Organ might be from the >specs? > >Swell to Pedal 8' > Swell to Pedal 4' > Great to Pedal 8' > Great to Pedal 4' > > SWELL...... > Gedeckt 8', Salicional 8', Celeste 8', Flute D'Amour 4', Oboe = 8" > Tremold > Swell to Swell 16' > Swell Unison > Swell to Swell 4' > > GREAT... Principal 8', Hohl Flote 8', Dolce 8', Violina 4' > Swell to Great 16' > Swell to Great 8' > Swell to Great 4' > Great to Great 16' > Great Unison > Great to Great 4' > > > > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >   _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com    
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] RE: [Residence Organs] organ specs From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:31:54 -0500   At 1:24 PM -0500 3/9/01, steve c bournias wrote: >salicional dolce and violina are one rank, gedeckt flute 4 are one, >celeste is one, principal is one, and hohlflute is one >   That's what I guessed looking at the specs. I have a Kilgen string rank that has Dulciana marked on the lower pipes and then Viola on the upper ones. Salicional of course fits in there too.    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] RE: expanding an organ From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:24:13 -0600     Thanks for the feedback.I know thats probably a hard question to answer without more detail.I really was just curious if any one would say right = off that buying a smaller organ and counting on expanding it in the future was = a inherently flawed plan.5 ranks may suit me but I like the idea of being = able to expand in the future if desired and I just didnt know how hard that = might be to add 3 or 4 ranks.My specific thought was that it might be better to buy a larger console and try to equip this larger console with enough switching capacity to support 10 ranks. > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Chace [SMTP:rlc1@etnainstruments.com] > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 8:53 AM > To: Residence Organ List > Subject: [Residence Organs] RE: expanding an organ (trying again) > > Steve Pitts asked about expanding a small instrument. I'd say that he = has > > mentioned many/most of the problems, in general terms, but it is almost > impossible to be more specific without having a particular instrument = (and > > expansion!) in mind. > > Most builder did not provide for later expansion, unless the instrument > was > specifically designed that way, though a few used to provide one or two > blank stoptabs or stopknobs per divison "just in case". From a purely > cosmetic point of view, the console alterations are perhaps the most > difficult (and important) because everyone will see them. I recall the = 3m > > Aeolian-Skinner in my home church, orignally designed for 36 ranks but > with > only 22 installed. The knobs were all there, many of them blank, along > with 1 spare per division. When the church finally completed the organ, =   > Moller did the work (A-S was defunct). The new specification was a bit > different, and so they used all of the blank knobs, even the spares, and =   > were still 1 short. They then used the Swell Tremulant knob for = something > > else and then mounted a toggle switch right on the left end of the Swell =   > manual. Not only was the Swell Tremulant thereafter no longer on the > combination action, but there is now an ugly hole in the fine > mahogany! (My father saved the manuals when the A-S console was = replaced > later on, but that's another story!) > > Inside the organ, you can be a bit more relaxed about the additions, = since > > the General Public won't see them (but fellow organ enthusiasts and > professionals *will*!). Still, you have to make things work, and that = can > > be easy or difficult depending upon the specific details. > > Since Steve seems to be talking about a small unit organ, whose > specification he posted a few days ago, let's consider that sort of > instrument. Typically, but not always, the stop switching is done right > on > the manuals, using slider switches. If there are spares, then it is > easier > to wire up additional stops. If there are none, then you have to = consider > > using some other sort of switching system instead. Sometimes, the > keyboards have multiple contacts that are then wired to gang switches > either in the console or in the organ chamber (less likely!). Again, if =   > there are spare contacts, then additions are easier. > > Since Steve's example had extensive couplers, it is probable that there > might also be additional switching (a "relay") in the console or > chamber. Does it have spare contacts? > > It all depends upon the details! > > Now, for many homes, a 5-rank instrument isn't a bad size. Some = changing > of ranks might be in order, "depending". It might prove more effective = to > > use the coupler stoptabs for stops instead, converting the organ into = more > > of a unit organ (some folks wouldn't like that). Again, it depends. > > One further comment, Steve said the organ is an Estey. The stop names > (Principal and Hohl Flute, in particular), suggest (but only suggest) = that > > it might be a late one, perhaps from the 1950s when George Steinmeyer = (of > the German organbuilding family) was working with Estey. Earlier Esteys > would have had a Diapason but not a Principal. (What's in a name?) Of > course, if the organ was rebuilt at some point, then all bets are off! > > Larry Chace > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] RE: combination action From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:33:58 -0600     I have heard of the term "Combination Action" ? I have heard of a = switching mechanism which has 61 power transistors..one for each note of a manual ( or 32 for a pedal board ) the transistors drive the direct electric or EP magnets.What is this mechanism called?    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] RE: combination action From: "Jon Calvo" <jcalvo@mail.state.tn.us> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:43:56 -0600   ** For Your Eyes Only ** ** High Priority **   Mechanical action is commonly referred to as Tracker or it can be = electorally assisted . most tracker backers would never allow any = electrical assistance on any tracker .   >>> steve.pitts@adtran.com 03/09/01 02:33PM >>>   I have heard of the term "Combination Action" ? I have heard of a = switching mechanism which has 61 power transistors..one for each note of a manual ( or 32 for a pedal board ) the transistors drive the direct electric or EP magnets.What is this mechanism called?     DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own=20 Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org=20 List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=20 Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org=20