DIYAPASON-L Digest #288 - Monday, March 26, 2001
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Diodes from Mouser
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
diodes
  by "Robert W. Taylor" <rtaylor@sockets.net>
[Residence Organs]  Casavant Gemshorn
  by "william baron" <bourdon_8@yahoo.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  diodes
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Wicks Console and  Relay
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
A diode question
  by "Peter Schmuckal" <peter@schmuckal.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  A diode question
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  A diode question
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Diodes from Mouser From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:19:23 -0500   Thanks John for the complete Mouser info. I wasn't on the stick this weekend checking my e-mail regularly, hence no reply to the Mouser contact questions.   They are a very nice company to deal with.   Eric       At 7:02 PM -0600 3/25/01, 4everaptor wrote: >To recap it all; > >Mouser Electronics >958 Main Street >Mansfield TX 76063-4827 > >7AM to 8PM central time > >1-800-346-6873 toll free >1-817-483-6899 fax > >mailto:sales@mouser.com email >http://www.mouser.com web page > >part number 583-1N4007 >Price 0.04 each 1-99 >Price 0.032 each 100-499 >Price 0.023 each 500 and up > > >John > > > >Jason Comet wrote: > > > > Where is "Mouser"??? Do they have a webpage??? > > > > Jason Comet > > > > > Mouser has the diodes 1N4007's at about $.03 ea. at quantities > > of 100 or more. > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: diodes From: "Robert W. Taylor" <rtaylor@sockets.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:12:11 -0600   Since the recent discussion has revealed a inexpensive source of diodes, I have started thinking in terms of installing them on my organ. I was = going to do it anyway, since my MIDI interface could be damaged without diode protection.   My questions to the list, What is the best way to install diodes? Where should they actually be located? Are mounting devices available? What = is considered the standard way of retrofitting?   My sanity is slowly returning as I have completed the rebuilding of my Aeolian Concertola. I am in the shake-down, tweaking phase now. Now that I fully understand both the pneumatic and electric control logic of this very complicated changer, the tweaking will actually be fun. So far, it handles good condition rolls beautifully.   Bob Taylor      
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] Casavant Gemshorn From: "william baron" <bourdon_8@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 06:33:40 -0800 (PST)   Hello Everyone,   I've been looking for a gemshorn for my instrument for quite some time now. I have found a casavant gemshorn for the asking price of $500. It supposedly is in good condition with some dents on Zinc basses.   Is this a fair price or what should I offer?   Thanks, Bill   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] diodes From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 06:52:17 -0800   At 08:12 03/26/2001 -0600, Robert W. Taylor wrote: >My questions to the list, What is the best way to install diodes? Where >should they actually be located? Are mounting devices available? What = is >considered the standard way of retrofitting?     On a large (3m\26rk) Wurlitzer relay I used to work on, the doides had = been installed two different ways: 1)where space was available, the isolation diodes and the spark = suppression diodes were installed on perforated PC board, and the chest wiring was diverted to the diodes with an additional length of cable. A heavy gauge return ('ground') wire ran the spark suppression diodes to ground. 2)where space was at a premium, the spark suppression diodes were wired on the chests directly across the magnets, and the isolation diodes were soldered directly to the junction board contact strips, the wires having been lifted off and reterminated on the diode. This last method made the junction board look a little odd with diodes sticking out 1/2" or so from the connectors, but it took up a lot less space than the extra perf-board.       Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Wicks Console and Relay From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:57:41 -0600       Bob Loesch (and list): Thanks for the info.This is a Wicks Relay I am considering = buying...directly from Scott Wicks.They have an 11 rank "Direct Electric" Relay and a = Console for sale.I was looking to buy a console and a "guts" .The 11 rank Relay apparently came out of the Console which is for sale, so I thought it = would be a good idea to buy them both, expecting minimal problems mating the two.Scott wants a good price for the relay, but if its reliable, and mates well with the console, then I think it will be worth it.I was a little disappointed when Scott said the relay was not solid state as described in the used parts list, but he said that the mechanical type is just as good = if not better than the solid state type relay.I like the idea that = replacement parts are still available directly from Wicks.My master plan is to use the Console and Relay as the basis for a small 4 or 5 rank organ , later expanding it to 11 ranks.I thought it might be better to take this = approach than to purchase a readily available complete 3 or 4 rank organ with the future goal of expanding to 10 or 11 ranks.   Steve Pitts    
(back) Subject: A diode question From: "Peter Schmuckal" <peter@schmuckal.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:01:45 -0800     At the risk of picking diode nits:   Why are 1N4007 diodes recommended over, say 1N4001 diodes? Both are 1A devices, but the former is rated at 1000V PIV, and the latter is 50V PIV.   Most organ relays use 10-15V, so I don't see why 50V isn't more than sufficient. The diode doesn't see the large reverse inductive spike since that is in the forward direction for the diode and will cause it to = conduct (which is the whole reason we're using them).   I realize that for all pratical purposes there is little cost difference between the two flavors to justify even this discussion, but I am just curious if anyone has had any problems with blowing out these diodes?   - Peter Schmuckal   ----- Original Message ----- From: 4everaptor <JABowers@execpc.com> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 5:02 PM Subject: [Residence Organs] Diodes from Mouser     > To recap it all; > > Mouser Electronics > 958 Main Street > Mansfield TX 76063-4827 > > 7AM to 8PM central time > > 1-800-346-6873 toll free > 1-817-483-6899 fax > > mailto:sales@mouser.com email > http://www.mouser.com web page > > part number 583-1N4007 > Price 0.04 each 1-99 > Price 0.032 each 100-499 > Price 0.023 each 500 and up > > > John > > > > Jason Comet wrote: > > > > Where is "Mouser"??? Do they have a webpage??? > > > > Jason Comet > > > > > Mouser has the diodes 1N4007's at about $.03 ea. at quantities > > of 100 or more. > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] A diode question From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:50:23 -0500   Peter Schmuckal <peter@schmuckal.com> asked about different versions of = the 1N4000-series of diodes and pointed out the different peak inverse voltage ratings. This topic got some airing a while ago (perhaps quite a while ago!) on PIPORG-L.   The diode's function is to conduct the current that the magnet tries to generate as its magnetic field collapses when the supply is cut off (when the note is released). The only *inverse* voltage the diode ever sees is the power supply voltage, usually 10-15v, and so all of the 1N4000-series diodes are equivalent in this circuit.   It is true that, without the diode, a very high voltage spike will appear, and that is what helps erode the key or relay contacts or zap any unfortunate solid-state devices attached, but with the diode that voltage never develops.   The amount of current that flows is also quite small and for a small = period of time. It is entirely likely that the little glass-encased 1N4148 = signal diodes would work just as well as the beefy epoxy-encased 1N4000 guys. = The glass ones *look* weak and puny, though, and they are more easily damaged.   Some professional builders said that they like to use the 1N4005, -6, or = -7 just "to be sure". At an extra penny or less for each increment in PIV, = it is not a significant price difference. The professional will pay lots = more for the labor to install the diodes!   If you are depending upon the built-in diodes that are a part of many of the popular driver chips (ULN2003, ULN2803, UDN2981, UDN2987, etc.), just be sure that you have a reasonably low-impedence connection to the chips' diode common. If the connection is a little piece of 28ga wire, then the effectiveness of the diodes will be reduced, perhaps to the point where they no longer provide the protection that the rest of the chip so rightly deserves. The further the diode is from the magnet, the greater the = chance of failure to protect.   For my own instrument, I'll wire 1N400x diodes across the terminals of the 601s, even though the driver boards have their own on-chip diodes. For a retro-fit, you have to find the most convenient location for them, and = that might be on the chest bottom board, on a junction, or on purpose-built boards as has been suggested already by other contributors. You might = find it helpful to make up a little jig for bending the diode leads so that = they fit nicely where you want to install them. And, be sure you have the polarity correct; othewise, you are installing solid-state short circuits!   Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] A diode question From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:53:33 -0800   The reverse voltage from an organ magnet's collapsing magnetic field can be as high as several hundred volts. True, the amperage is very low, but the high voltage could fry a 1N4001 diode. PIV stands for 'positive inverse voltage', and is the amount of REVERSE voltage that the diode can block. That little 1N4001 will do just fine up to 50 volts, but any reverse voltage higher than 50V will go through it like it wasn't there. Having worked for many years on electro-mechanical telephone switching which ran on 48VDC, I can tell you from experience just how hard a collapsing field 'kick' can bite! In addition, since the cost difference isn't that great, doesn't it make sense to go with the higher rating, since that 2=A2 difference might save several hundred dollars worth of electronic goodies? =20   At 20:01 03/26/2001 -0800, Peter Schmuckal wrote: > >At the risk of picking diode nits: > >Why are 1N4007 diodes recommended over, say 1N4001 diodes? Both are 1A >devices, but the former is rated at 1000V PIV, and the latter is 50V PIV. > >Most organ relays use 10-15V, so I don't see why 50V isn't more than >sufficient. The diode doesn't see the large reverse inductive spike since >that is in the forward direction for the diode and will cause it to conduct >(which is the whole reason we're using them). > >I realize that for all pratical purposes there is little cost difference >between the two flavors to justify even this discussion, but I am just >curious if anyone has had any problems with blowing out these diodes?     Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA=20 NAWCC 140818 http://www.jps.net/rrloesch alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com