DIYAPASON-L Digest #432 - Thursday, November 8, 2001
 
CHEST QUESTIONS and INTRO
  by <Mollerpo@aol.com>
Re:Cleaning Pipes (metal and wood)
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: Nightingale
  by "Hugh Knapton" <knapton@superaje.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  CHEST QUESTIONS and INTRO
  by "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Nightingale
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs] Re:Cleaning Pipes (metal and wood)
  by "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re:Cleaning Pipes (metal and wood)
  by "Kelvin Smith" <KelvinSmith@UntraveledRoad.com>
Cleaning Flues of Different Metals......... pt. 2
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Regal Marble Arch.......
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: CHEST QUESTIONS
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re:Cleaning Pipes (metal and wood)
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
 

(back) Subject: CHEST QUESTIONS and INTRO From: <Mollerpo@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:32:14 EST     --part1_24.1bfef410.291c29ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi! My name is Brian Burns. I've been into pipe organs for about 4 years = now and that all started in college. I recently got the old organ from the = church that I used to take lessons at. It has sat in a garage for nearly 30 years =   collecting soot and dust. I am ready to beging putting it back together in = my home.   My first issue is the only remaining main chest. It is a 5 rank electro-pneumatic of unknown origin. The stop action is working but some = of the notes don't play. The valves seem to be in good condition as well as = the primary action. SO.... could the problem be in the seals of the valve = boards to the chest? If this helps: it's not like all of one note doesn't work , =   just here and there over various ranks. The organ is supposed to be a = Moller, but that is questionable. One other chest I have IS a Moller, but I don't think the one I'm working on is   Any ideas?   --part1_24.1bfef410.291c29ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <FONT COLOR=3D"#800040" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial = Rounded MT Bold" LANG=3D"0">Hi! My name is Brian Burns.&nbsp; I've been = into pipe organs for about 4 years now and that all started in college. I = recently got the old organ from the church that I used to take lessons at. = It has sat in a garage for nearly 30 years collecting soot and dust. I am = ready to beging putting it back together in my home.<BR> <BR> My first issue is the only remaining main chest. It is a 5 rank = electro-pneumatic of unknown origin. The stop action is working but some = of the notes don't play. The valves seem to be in good condition as well = as the primary action. SO.... could the problem be in the seals of the = valve boards to the chest?&nbsp; If this helps: it's not like all of one = note doesn't work , just here and there over various ranks. The organ is = supposed to be a Moller, but that is questionable. One other chest I have = IS a Moller, but I don't think the one I'm working on is<BR> <BR> Any ideas?<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_24.1bfef410.291c29ae_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re:Cleaning Pipes (metal and wood) From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:32:52 EST   Here again is my standard answer on pipe cleaning but I am sure there are others with very successful alternate methods.   You probably won't like to work with what I use. At the factory pipes are =   washed clean of the whiting and fingerprints with a good soap (TSP) and = water wash. Then the pipes are put through a pickling bath of acid. That is = how the zinc pipes get those nice patterns showing the crystalline zinc cells. = A sodium bicarbonate neutralizer bath and rinse follows. After thorough = drying the pipes are spay lacquered to keep them looking good for some time.   Refinishing is about the same.   To make the pipes look like factory new:   1) remove any and all lacquer coating with paint remover. 2) wash pipes thoroughly. 3) using hydrochloric acid in a greatly diluted solution set in a dipping =   trough, dip the pipes for a short time then check results before dipping again. 4) rinse the pipes and dip into a sodium bicarbonate solution then rinse well again. 5) dry well. 6) spray musical instrument lacquer on. 7) step back and admire your "new" pipe after reassembly.   I personally tend to *avoid* any steel wool unless absolutely necessary. Even the fine scratches it leaves will eventually degrade the surface. Nonscratch nylon type pads used for art restoration is just a bit better = but ideally no abrasion is wanted. Our pristine pipework at Berkeley wasn't = all that pristine when we got it! Everything now looks better than factory = fresh but it took a lot of labor. I wish I could give you a quick and easy = method but with the original lacquer on the pipes there just isn't one. Several industrial chemicals are available that will work in place of the acid pickling bath. Occasionally a metal polish needs to be used if you really =   want to see yourself in the pipe but many feel that is going too far = (brass ranks excluded I'm sure).   Eye protection wear, chemical gloves, and a chemical apron are a must as = is a source of running water and a sodium bicarbonate tub for neutralizing splashes. Hydrochloric acid is the same as muriatic acid from pool supply =   stores and Arm and Hammer Baking Soda is 100% sodium bicarb. All work = should be done out in the open air as the acid fumes are toxic even in small = amounts (check wind direction). The saving grace is that you dilute the acid down = a great deal until you get used to working with it safely. I add acid to my =   pool wearing eye protection only and have never splashed myself (knock on wood). Dipping pipes reduces the acidity as oxides are dissolved and = fresh acid must be added periodically. The spent solution should be neutralized =   with sodium bicarbonate then disposed of as toxic waste because of the = lead and zinc content. Most municipal water treatment plants deal with lead = and heavy metals because of the lead still found in old plumbing so dumping = the solution down the drain of a city like San Francisco is no problem in = small quantities. Your local sanitary district may be different and septic = tanks are a big no-no as is anything that puts the lead in the groundwater.   Wood pipes are first blown out with low pressure compressed air to = dislodge dust. The insides are normally "sized" with hot glue used as a sealant. Murphy's Wood Soap on a damp (not wet) terrycloth towel over the outside = will get most of the dirt off. When dry and rubbed clean a second time I apply =   shellac with a spray gun to seal the surface and make the pipes look like = new or better. Masking tape the areas you don't want to spray and besure to remove the cap so you won't shellac it to the pipe body. Just use common sense for the most part. If the pipe languid is shellaced on some pipes = it will crack so what was not originally shellaced should not be during a restoration.   Reeds are a whole separate study and must be carefully disassembled before =   cleaning them. This is a longer process requiring many clarifications = which I will not cover here.   Hope my ramblings help, best wishes to you,     Al copyrights reserved      
(back) Subject: Re: Nightingale From: "Hugh Knapton" <knapton@superaje.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:40:05 -0400   Thanks Al & All   and to Bob! ....Being formerly with Hill, Norman & Beard (Christie!) .... does the Marble Arch still exist?   Hugh  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] CHEST QUESTIONS and INTRO From: "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:09:50 -0800   In what city do you live? Take some photos and either put them an the net or show them to a local organ technican. Blaine Ricketts   Mollerpo@aol.com wrote: >   > > My first issue is the only remaining main chest. It is a 5 rank > electro-pneumatic of unknown origin. The stop action is working but > some of the notes don't play. > Any ideas?  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Nightingale From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:09:30 -0800   At 02:40 PM 11/8/01 -0400, Hugh Knapton wrote: > and to Bob! ....Being formerly with Hill, Norman & Beard (Christie!) >... does the Marble Arch still exist?     Hi, Hugh. I don't know if Marble Arch still exists or not. If it = doesn't, we're much poorer for it. That was a wonderful instrument in a wonderful building, as so many of those old 'picture palaces' were. I only know of it through the recordings made by Sidney Torch, of which I only have one, which was recorded not at Marble Arch, but at Regal, Edmonton. I do have = a reel-to-reel tape of Mr. Torch, which I believe was made at Marble Arch, but I don't know, and I can't locate the tape right now as I'm in the process of moving great heaps of 'stuff' to relocate my 'clock shop' so that my wife will have room for her quilting 'stuff'. At any rate, I know that's not much help, but I'm a dihard theatre organ fan, and former pizza organist (Marin Pizza Pub, San Rafael, California, USA, 1971-1974), so I try to keep abreast of what's going on in the theatre organ world. At least, that is, the USA theatre organ world... ;-)   When you were with H, N, & B, did you do any work on Christies? I understand that they were very well built, despite what some of our 'Wurlitzer Fanatics' say about electro-mechanical actions.   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA NAWCC 140818 http://www.cuckoobob.com alternate mailto:cuckoobob@eudoramail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re:Cleaning Pipes (metal and wood) From: "homer valenzona" <dochome@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 20:29:54 +0000   Hi Al, Does your method for zinc pipes also work well for tin, lead or tin/lead pipes. I'd be eager to try this method to prepare my nonspeaking facade pipes(high tin content.) Homer     ----Original Message Follows---- From: TheGluePot@aol.com Reply-To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> To: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Subject: [Residence Organs] Re:Cleaning Pipes (metal and wood) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:32:52 EST   Here again is my standard answer on pipe cleaning but I am sure there are others with very successful alternate methods.   You probably won't like to work with what I use. At the factory pipes are washed clean of the whiting and fingerprints with a good soap (TSP) and water wash. Then the pipes are put through a pickling bath of acid. That is = how the zinc pipes get those nice patterns showing the crystalline zinc cells. = A sodium bicarbonate neutralizer bath and rinse follows. After thorough drying the pipes are spay lacquered to keep them looking good for some time.   Refinishing is about the same.   To make the pipes look like factory new:   1) remove any and all lacquer coating with paint remover. 2) wash pipes thoroughly. 3) using hydrochloric acid in a greatly diluted solution set in a dipping trough, dip the pipes for a short time then check results before dipping again. 4) rinse the pipes and dip into a sodium bicarbonate solution then rinse well again. 5) dry well. 6) spray musical instrument lacquer on. 7) step back and admire your "new" pipe after reassembly.   I personally tend to *avoid* any steel wool unless absolutely necessary. Even the fine scratches it leaves will eventually degrade the surface. Nonscratch nylon type pads used for art restoration is just a bit better = but ideally no abrasion is wanted. Our pristine pipework at Berkeley wasn't = all that pristine when we got it! Everything now looks better than factory fresh but it took a lot of labor. I wish I could give you a quick and easy = method but with the original lacquer on the pipes there just isn't one. Several industrial chemicals are available that will work in place of the acid pickling bath. Occasionally a metal polish needs to be used if you really want to see yourself in the pipe but many feel that is going too far = (brass ranks excluded I'm sure).   Eye protection wear, chemical gloves, and a chemical apron are a must as = is a source of running water and a sodium bicarbonate tub for neutralizing splashes. Hydrochloric acid is the same as muriatic acid from pool supply stores and Arm and Hammer Baking Soda is 100% sodium bicarb. All work should be done out in the open air as the acid fumes are toxic even in small amounts (check wind direction). The saving grace is that you dilute the acid down = a great deal until you get used to working with it safely. I add acid to my pool wearing eye protection only and have never splashed myself (knock on wood). Dipping pipes reduces the acidity as oxides are dissolved and = fresh acid must be added periodically. The spent solution should be neutralized with sodium bicarbonate then disposed of as toxic waste because of the = lead and zinc content. Most municipal water treatment plants deal with lead = and heavy metals because of the lead still found in old plumbing so dumping = the solution down the drain of a city like San Francisco is no problem in = small quantities. Your local sanitary district may be different and septic = tanks are a big no-no as is anything that puts the lead in the groundwater.   Wood pipes are first blown out with low pressure compressed air to = dislodge dust. The insides are normally "sized" with hot glue used as a sealant. Murphy's Wood Soap on a damp (not wet) terrycloth towel over the outside will get most of the dirt off. When dry and rubbed clean a second time I apply shellac with a spray gun to seal the surface and make the pipes look like new or better. Masking tape the areas you don't want to spray and besure to remove the cap so you won't shellac it to the pipe body. Just use common sense for the most part. If the pipe languid is shellaced on some pipes = it will crack so what was not originally shellaced should not be during a restoration.   Reeds are a whole separate study and must be carefully disassembled before cleaning them. This is a longer process requiring many clarifications = which I will not cover here.   Hope my ramblings help, best wishes to you,     Al copyrights reserved       DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org       _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re:Cleaning Pipes (metal and wood) From: "Kelvin Smith" <KelvinSmith@UntraveledRoad.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:36:55 -0700   Hi all,   There has to be one in every bunch, and I can't resist saying: washing = pipes???   Kelvin (owner of 2300 pipes, all complete with original dust)      
(back) Subject: Cleaning Flues of Different Metals......... pt. 2 From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:44:28 EST   << Hi Al, Does your method for zinc pipes also work well for tin, lead or tin/lead pipes. I'd be eager to try this method to prepare my nonspeaking facade pipes(high tin content.) Homer >>   Greetings Homer:   I'll have to amend my standard cleaning commentary to be a bit more = precise. Yes, cleaning any of the common metal (spotted metal) pipes, high tin strings, Hoyt metal (tin plating on lead/antimony alloy), and others can = be done with the highly diluted hydrochloric acid solution. The acid = dissolves the oxides of most metals.   One thing I forgot to mention was an admonition about cleaning pipes with = the air gun. Many soft tin strings especially and other metal flues can be sensitive to being blown out with an air gun. Languids often move and the =   pipe becomes speachless until revoiced. When one does dust out or dry off =   the pipe with an air gun it is a good idea never to aim it at the languid = or toe hole.   Best to all,   Al Sefl copyrights reserved (this after I found out I lost future publishing = rights to my own materials unless I did put on the disclaimer) Someday a book?  
(back) Subject: Regal Marble Arch....... From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:48:56 EST   Sadly both the theatre and the organ are gone. The organ was purchased by = a fellow who had big plans but put it into a drafty damp barn for storage = where it has sat for decades. That was what my friends across the pond have = told me. I would say from their description that it will never play again. Criminal.......   Al Sefl  
(back) Subject: Re: CHEST QUESTIONS From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:55:42 EST   There are many reasons a chest will not play some notes. First off, if = the chest has even been wet then some valves have become glued to the valve seats. Second, if the leather for the secondary is holed then it won't = move the valve. Thirdly, if the chest is pitman........ etceteras..........   Pull the chest apart while using a camera to document all of the steps. = Look at the parts that do work and see what is different from those that don't. = Experienced organ techs have seen it all from dead bats in pipes to mud = wasps plugging up toe holes. Even bad rebuilds where pouches are too loose can cause dead notes with perfectly good leather and everything else working = just fine.   Good luck,   Al Sefl  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re:Cleaning Pipes (metal and wood) From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:32:08 -0800   I remember the 'purists' complaining about cleaning pipes of one large Canadian cathedral organ, claiming that 'cleaning the pipes would change their original sound'. So were they saying that they were MADE covered with dust? Did they never get ANY dirtier in their 100+ years?   Bob, who believes there are at least TWO, not one, on this list. (and who NEVER washes pipes or cars)     At 01:36 PM 11/8/01 -0700, Kelvin Smith wrote: >Hi all, > >There has to be one in every bunch, and I can't resist saying: washing pipes??? > >Kelvin >(owner of 2300 pipes, all complete with original dust) > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >