DIYAPASON-L Digest #380 - Thursday, September 6, 2001
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: New Member Bio and Organ Design Question
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@home.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: New Member Bio and Organ Design  Question
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: New Member Bio and Organ Design Question From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 01:29:34 EDT     In a message dated 9/5/01 10:33:55 PM, Jess4203@aol.com writes:   > My >preference is for a Baroque type instrument which would be appropriate >for JSB and composers of that era (Buxtehude, Scheidt, etc.). While I = would >love to have a tracker, I've been advised to go direct electric (much simpler >and more flexible) and to unify to get the most out of the space that = will >be available.   I keep hearing those types of terms "baroque" "French" organs or what = ever and personally I think much of those fancifull sounding designations are mostly vivid imagination. I have the perfect name for them; "Pipe organ" = and with the organ you have a variety of different ranks. I say just select = what you like the sounds of and don't worry about making it "Baroque" or = whatever, if you like lots of reeds then use them, if you hate reeds then don't use them, if like me, you hate tremulants on the organ, nix i t, it is your organ, design and build it the way YOU want, after all, you will live with = it. Trackers are okay but I prefer E/P organs which like the DE chests can be changed or altered later easy enough by switching wires, with a tracker = you are pretty much stuck and locked in with the stops you chose, and many = times I wanted to play a rank on the other manual or couple to the pedals or something and couldnt on a tracker. A tracker I have a key to has a 16' Dulzian on the Great, there's no way to use it alone on the pedal, can = only couple the pedal to it and all the rest of the Great stops. Mine is E/P with modification, I have one 90 OHM chest magnet for each = pouch for each pipe, (2 magnets for the bottom octaves) neoprene hose from the pouches to the magnets, 61 relays for the sw and 61 for the gt   > Of course I am aware that unit organs >do have limitations when it comes to polyphonic music especially. I = have >also been told that using an extended rank for more than one stop means voicing >it such that it can't provide the kind of blend and balance that = separate >stops can have.   Oh I HATE when that is done, it is just a cheap way to make it appear the organ is larger than it really is, that is similar to the reed organ = makers who put rows and rows of stop knobs on the smallest organs under the idea that more knobs looks like it does more, forgetting to mention 3 knobs control the same set of reeds with minimal if any differences. I never = liked the note drop-offs of borrowing pipes off one rank to fill-in for another = one elsewhere, ditto for using common bases for two ranks to save 12 pipes. I won't have it on my organ.   >It has been suggested that I try to build a three or four rank >DE organ on a unit chest such as those built by     Let's not mention companies who mass produce organs as inexpensively as possible, I have seen a few of brand "x" organs and repaired one of their consoles and was absolutely not impressed, ditto for another who used 1/8" =   masonite for bung boards and hardware store bought chamber ladders and installed them leaving all the original shipping and other tags still on them, you can do better than that.   DE chests are okay, might be a little on the noisy side in the wood is = thin or the magnets themselves make more noise than other brands, but they are easy to make and can be wired up in any way. I would also make use of expansion chambers in the toeboards between the magnets and the pipe feet = so there is an air column between that acts like a mini shock absorber, helps = in the speech. You would need to laminate 3 layers of plywood to do so.   >I would be interested in comments from the list members on this. >Particularly: Could a four rank unit organ work for the Baroque = repetoire?   I don't know "repetoire" I just play classical music on the organ, what = ever kind I like that sounds nice. I think 4 ranks is more suited for practice, I really can't see having = less than 8 or 10 ranks for anything other than basic practice. I would = probably find 4 ranks boring since the pedals would only have a pedal bourdon and maybe coupling all up to the manuals then you have note dropoff etc. I think in your footprint you can fit more than 4 ranks. I have a 10x10 chamber, with generous walkways between the 2 rank chests, divided 4 ranks =   either side with room to add a 4' open, a Vox Humana, a 16' manual = bourdon. Out in the living room on offsets are the #1 scale pedal bourdon, and #2 bourdon with room for the Aeoline on the chest, and a set of chimes in the =   bedroom. With offsets you can move them around later if you move, plan = ahead maybe with a generous length cable and a plug connector of some kind.     >What more could fit in the footprint I described above? Could there be >room for expansion beyond four ranks in that space? (manual reeds, a = pedal reed, >additional stops/ranks, mixtures, upperwork). Would others on the list   Depends on the scales of the pipes and if you can miter some, you can also =   mount wood pipes on the ceiling, upside down, up the wall horizontally and =   hose them, been done, works if the space is short. My GT 8' Open diap = bottom octave is wood, they pipes all fit horizontally up one wall, hosed to a = small offset on the floor.     >suggest doing something else? I could build a bigger case in the shed >and even raise the shed roof over eight feet, but I might have a problem =   fitting >the organ in my eventual domecile. Of course, I could leave that problem   For starts I'd put the 16' pedal bourdon on offset chests in the room, if = you don't mind the looks of wood pipes you can refinish them and build some furniture grade chests so they look nice, or place the larger pipes = outside the case as a facade along the two sides freeing up a lot of room in the = case. I don't know if it's easier or faster to start with a used organ or from scratch, I started with a used 9 rank 1930 organ bought for $1500, and = here some $8,000 and 6 years later I'm looking at another $500 and 4+ more = months before I can hear the first note, don't kid yourself, building an organ is = a lot of work money and time and you would be surprised how many wires and soldered connections it takes.   Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@home.com> Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 07:09:31 -0500   Mpmollerorgan@aol.com wrote: > * * * > > I don't know if it's easier or faster to start with a used organ > or from scratch, I started with a used 9 rank 1930 organ bought > for $1500, and here some $8,000 and 6 years later I'm looking > at another $500 and 4+ more months before I can hear the first > note, don't kid yourself, building an organ is a lot of work > money and time and you would be surprised how many wires and > soldered connections it takes. Congratulations, Randall: I agree with you. The intense labor surrounding almost any organ built or rebuilt outside a manufacturing facility that is designed to this kind of work is mind boggling. My first experience with rebuilding something that someone else had done was way back in 1965. I had a three-rank unit organ that was an electronic design. I must have spent most of every evening for six months before it all came together. The re-wiring was a very tedious job, most of it with the old double covered cotton insulated wire. Keep your heart in the game. You've come a long way. Those "first notes" will be your sweet rewards for all the labor. My focus right now is on a console rebuild. The old console should have been three inches wider on each side to receive the drawknobs. I made everything fit in the space, but it took about two extra weeks just to move the new stuff into space that were not originally made to receive it. These kinds of experiences we chalk up to the learning. I now believe it would have been easier to start with a new console of the proper size from the beginning. The "secret" I now have in my pocket is that the rebuilt console will still look very good, and I have the satisfaction of having done it well. I hope you find that same high level of satisfaction with what you achieve on your organ. F. Richard Burt effarbee@home.com  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: New Member Bio and Organ Design Question From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:46:43 -0400   At 1:29 AM -0400 9/6/01, Mpmollerorgan@aol.com wrote: > >I keep hearing those types of terms "baroque" "French" organs or what = ever >and personally I think much of those fancifull sounding designations are >mostly vivid imagination. I have the perfect name for them; "Pipe organ" = and >with the organ you have a variety of different ranks. I say just select = what >you like the sounds of and don't worry about making it "Baroque" or = whatever, >if you like lots of reeds then use them, if you hate reeds then don't use >them, if like me, you hate tremulants on the organ, nix i t, it is your >organ, design and build it the way YOU want, after all, you will live = with it.   I personally like the sound better of a Baroque sounding pipe organ than Romantic, and I do find that there is a difference. I like articulate sounding pipework with some chiff to it, at least on some stops. I've had a somewhat chiffy Gedackt and filled in the small nicks to make the lower pipes much more chiffy and I love it. I also happened to stumble across some chiffy Diapasons which I really enjoy. On the other hand, I have a Coronet set of ranks that aren't chiffy from 4' up and probably wouldn't sound good if they were, at least for the Coronet stop which I love. The problem though is that the 8' Gedackt is part of the combination and is very chiffy, I haven't figured out that one yet. Oh well, maybe it'll sound fine once I get all the pipes hooked up. I personally also dislike tremulant for most use. But I find the Coronet stop just sounds better with it.   BTW. Welcome to the list Roy! It's has a great wealth of information and support to share. And yes, building a pipe organ is alot of work, but every bit worth it!   Actually I thought it interesting, that according to the dictionary I looked the word"organ" up in, as far as a musical instrument goes, it mentions only an instrument with a set or sets of pipes, keyboards and wind driven. There is no mention of any electronic gismos producing a tone. So... in my mind an "organ" in a musical instrument sense, is only a "pipe organ".   Eric