DIYAPASON-L Digest #550 - Tuesday, April 2, 2002
 
Fish glue
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
Fish glue: NO POSITIVE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THESE QUARTERS!
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
A minor correction in my Diatribe regarding Fish glue
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Fish glue
  by "Nemesio Valle, III" <captainnemo@directvinternet.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Fish glue
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Fish glue From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:16:16 EST   Greetings all, We are using fish glue for the first time, and the boss is somewhat = nervous about this fact.   To help erase his fears, could those of you who have used fish glue for = many years kindly let him know that it is as reliable as hide glue. Who has = used it for more than 3 decades (or am I showing my ignorance here?). Please respond at my address <Red Dirks@aol.com>   Thank you all very much. Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: Fish glue: NO POSITIVE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THESE QUARTERS! From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 20:18:43 -0600   Wuxuzusu@aol.com wrote: > Greetings all,   > We are using fish glue for the first time, and the boss is somewhat = nervous > about this fact.   As well as he ought to be! > To help erase his fears, could those of you who have used fish glue for = many > years kindly let him know that it is as reliable as hide glue.   Unfortunately, in my experience it is NOT nearly as reliable as hide glue. Last Summer, we experienced a wholesale failure of some Primary pneumatics which blew off some windchests in a large instrument that we were (and still are!) installing.   We also experienced failure of two Reservoirs that were re-leathered using this so-called adhesive.   In the end, we wound-up completely re-covering anything which had been doing in it (which was everything up to the point of failure!) and used Fish Glue the second time around.   It is touted to be as good as hide glue without the fuss and muss, but since no one warrants the work it takes to make it right in the event of failure, I would consider very carefully if you REALLY want to do a project twice! Fortunately for me, the project involved was being done by another contractor who defaulted and we "inherited" all of the fish-glued pneumatics; it would have NEVER been our first choice. As it turns out: with very good reason!   The little extra time and trouble it takes to make up a batch of hot hide glue is pale in comparison to making a callback to a job-site some distance from one's shop and having to re-do things all over a second time.   I know there are some vendors who will prolly take me to task for this, but all I can do is report on my experience. It wasn't good. I discussed this failure at great length with the three major sources I know of that sell it, and no one has yet to come up with an explanation which I find satisfactory as to why this was happening. I've heard everything from a bad batch of glue to too much humidity to needing to "prime" (gluesize) the surface with a coating of glue, letting it dry, and then putting on a second "bonding" coat.   As I understand it, this product was designed for some other industry (something to do with photography emulsion, as I understand it) and never meant for organ work.   >Who has used it for more than 3 decades (or am I showing my ignorance = here?).   Sometimes, the "old reliable" is just that: old and reliable! Hot hide glue has been used for HUNDREDS of years, and not just 30 or more.   This reminds me of our collective "ignorance" when we all trod on the Perflex cow-pie and had to eat it!   If you're not too far into using the fish glue, NOW is the time to turn tail and run from using it as fast as you can!   Faithfully,   "Grandpa Arp" (one VERY disgruntled former user of Fish Glue!) Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: A minor correction in my Diatribe regarding Fish glue From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:35:36 -0600   Previously, I wrote:   > In the end, we wound-up completely re-covering anything which had been > doing in it (which was everything up to the point of failure!) and > used Fish Glue the second time around.   What it SHOULD have read was:   In the end, we wound-up completely re-covering anything which had been covered using the Fish Glue (which was everything up to the point of failure!) and used HOT HIDE Glue the second time around. Otherwise, my diatribe still stands! I have photos of the failures of the Reservoirs, should anyone wish to see them!   Faithfully,   G.A. -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Fish glue From: "Nemesio Valle, III" <captainnemo@directvinternet.com> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 23:36:48 -0500   Regarding fish glue:   Although I have not been working long with the company, it has always used fish glue, except at the very beginning, and has never had any problems disproportionate to the number of problems with hide glue. That is, all people working with all glues have some chance of gluing things improperly and resulting in a failure of some sort. This goes for hide glue, fish glue, elmer's glue, etc., all of which can fail under the wrong (right) circumstances. In the two dozen years or so my boss has been working with fish glue, as well as the two years I have been using it, we have never had a problem which was glue related, and very few that had to do with human error (i.e., bad gluing). I trust that Mr Scheider's experiences are genuine, but they do not match those of Adkins and Associates. I am, Sincerely yours, Nemesio Valle, III    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Fish glue From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 23:15:14 -0600   Hi, Stan --   "Many years" no. But I have tried to use fish glue once or twice several =   years ago (as a sort-of experiment...nothing scientific by any means) and = I was no more impressed with it than Richard. Fish glue has a longer 'tack' =   period than hide glue -- thus, things tend to 'creep' if not clamped securely while it dries. That's a pain when you're talking about leather things. Hide glue seems (to me) to be better at "staying put once it gets =   stuck somewhere". (Once you *do* get something glued together with fish glue it seems to stay there...but getting it there was problematic.)   FWIW, I have also had excellent luck with Franklin Liquid Hide glue. It hasn't really yet stood the test of decades, but I have fewer qualms with using it in organ leather work than I would for using white leather glues...even if it ultimately fails the time test, it is still easily removable in favor of the real thing.   Happy Gluing --   Tim     At 07:16 PM 4/2/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings all, >We are using fish glue for the first time, and the boss is somewhat = nervous >about this fact. > >To help erase his fears, could those of you who have used fish glue for = many >years kindly let him know that it is as reliable as hide glue. Who has = used >it for more than 3 decades (or am I showing my ignorance here?).