DIYAPASON-L Digest #705 - Wednesday, December 18, 2002
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Visit to Milwaukee
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
Controlling wind pressures
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Controlling wind pressures
  by "Kelvin Smith" <KelvinSmith@UntraveledRoad.com>
Switching
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Devtronix
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Visit to Milwaukee
  by "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Visit to Milwaukee From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:40:04 EST     --part1_19b.dba59d9.2b31f0d4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi Phil, you might check with your local Allen or Rogers dealer to see if they have sold anything in the area. I kept in touch with the Allen people here and removed a Hall with 8 untouched ranks playing for $500. The church had bought a new Allen to replace the Hall organ. They wanted to use the pipe chamber for speakers = and storage. It was cheaper to buy the Allen then to releather the console on = the Hall, the salesman said? The chests had been releathered not to long ago. = I asked about this organ five or six years ago and finally the made the move =   two replace the pipe organ. The church and the Allen salesman couldn't see =   how it would come out. The panel in the sealing where it would have to go = was through was hinged. No problem, the chest was bolted together in two big parts and then the off sets. It took a day with help from three friends = with the heavy stuff. The blower was in the basement with a new transformer. You should remove just one pipe organ if you can for the experience! They are out there you have to do some snooping. Have fun Dennis   --part1_19b.dba59d9.2b31f0d4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Hi Phil, you might check with your local Allen = or Rogers dealer to see if they have sold anything in the area.&nbsp; <BR> I kept in touch with the Allen people here and removed a Hall with 8 = untouched ranks playing for $500. The church had bought a new Allen to = replace the Hall organ. They wanted to use the pipe chamber for speakers = and storage. It was cheaper to buy the Allen then to releather the console = on the Hall, the salesman said? The chests had been releathered not to = long ago. I asked about this organ five or six years ago and finally the = made the move two replace the pipe organ. The church and the Allen = salesman couldn't see how it would come out. The panel in the sealing = where it would have to go was through was hinged. No problem, the chest = was bolted together in two big parts and then the off sets. It took a day = with help from three friends with the heavy stuff.<BR> The blower was in the basement with a new transformer. <BR> You should remove just one pipe organ if you can for the experience!<BR> They are out there you have to do some snooping.<BR> Have fun Dennis</FONT></HTML>   --part1_19b.dba59d9.2b31f0d4_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Controlling wind pressures From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:07:44 -0600   This is probably an elementary question, but I'll ask anyway. I know that wp coming out of the reservoirs to the chests is controlled by the weights and/or springs on the reservoirs.   How is the wind pressure coming from the blower controlled so that it = isn't too much pressure going into the reservoirs? I assume that too high a pressure would not be good. Is this where curtain valves come into play? Are they installed between the blower and the reservoirs? How many are needed? I have a blower producing 8" static pressure; all chests will be = in the neighborhood of 3-4".   Thanks.   Dennis Steckley    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Controlling wind pressures From: "Kelvin Smith" <KelvinSmith@UntraveledRoad.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:35:50 -0700   The wind pressure going into the regulators isn't real significant. You = can have a high pressure going in and a low pressure going out. I've been told that this makes the tremulants real wide, but that's the only problem I've heard of. My blower puts out about 13" pressure and my pipes are mostly at 3.5 inches. I used a static regulator to decrease the pressure going into the regulators because of the tremulant issue. This just an additional regulator that the air goes through before the main regulators.   The curtain valves (or cone valves) are part of what actually regulate the pressure going out of the regulator by restricting how much air can come into the regulator. As the regulator drops, the air inflow increases. When it rises, the airflow is cut off.   Kelvin   >This is probably an elementary question, but I'll ask anyway. I know = that >wp coming out of the reservoirs to the chests is controlled by the = weights >and/or springs on the reservoirs. > >How is the wind pressure coming from the blower controlled so that it = isn't >too much pressure going into the reservoirs? I assume that too high a >pressure would not be good. Is this where curtain valves come into play? >Are they installed between the blower and the reservoirs? How many are >needed? I have a blower producing 8" static pressure; all chests will be = in >the neighborhood of 3-4". > >Thanks. > >Dennis Steckley > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Switching From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:14:45 EST     --part1_b8.342a9d7e.2b328595_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   List,   I hope to be posting more progress on my organ soon. A few parts of it = have me rather apprehensive. The 2M Austin console is so filthy inside, it is obvious that I will have to gut it and start from scratch. As far as I = know, the mechanical combination action is OK and the couplers work.   The old cables (now black and brittle) are coming from the console. There =   are a couple newer cables (from the previous owner's additions in 1972) = that are apparently punched (or soldered) into the existing junctions. These newer cables go to two relay panels - one for the Great Octave that's = unified to 4-5 pitches, and the other for the Swell/Pedal Stopped Flute that's unified to about 7 pitches between the swell and pedal.   It appears, then, that the key switches have been carrying current for 2 magnets each: the primary on the pitman chest and the relay on the relay panel.   When I rewire the organ, I see two options:   1. Run a single cable from each division (S, G, and P) to the appropriate =   relay panel. Each relay has 10 contacts. One of these contacts can go to =   the pitman chest primaries and the others used to attach to the = appropriate Reisner gang swithes (as they already are with tiny white wires smaller = than angel hair pasta).   2. Convert to solid state. I would love to do it, but I don't want to = spend $5000 to do it. I do hope to add a few ranks soon after getting it = playing as well as wanting to de-unify it somewhat.   I've collected information on Musicom, Syndyne, Artisan Instruments, = Classic Organ Systems, Peterson, Emutek, Opus 2, and Devtronix (I think that's = all).   I've been told that there's no reason to convert if my relay panels are functional. I've studied them to the point that I think I've figured them =   out. I'm afraid that I will have to rewire them and provide new = termination blocks. Since the gang switches for the two unified ranks are connected = by long pins representing the actual pipes of the particular ranks, I may = have to cut them apart in case I de-unify somewhat. That way I can still use a =   couple gang switches to add in new ranks later.   Does anybody have any suggestions for me - or experience they can share - regarding your switching mechanism for your organs. If you're = uncomfortable mentioning specific names of products, please e-mail me privately, but I think the list would benefit from the discussion. I would appreciate specific info, not just theory.   Thanks so much. I hope everybody's having a Merry Christmas. My 16 year = old daughter is having a party in the basement right now with about 10 kids = from school. The couple boys should be leaving soon leaving about 4 of the = girls to spend the night.   Keith Zimmerman Commerce, Georgia   --part1_b8.342a9d7e.2b328595_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">List,<BR> <BR> I hope to be posting more progress on my organ soon.&nbsp; A few parts of = it have me rather apprehensive.&nbsp; The 2M Austin console is so filthy = inside, it is obvious that I will have to gut it and start from = scratch.&nbsp; As far as I know, the mechanical combination action is OK = and the couplers work.<BR> <BR> The old cables (now black and brittle) are coming from the console.&nbsp; = There are a couple newer cables (from the previous owner's additions in = 1972) that are apparently punched (or soldered) into the existing = junctions.&nbsp; These newer cables go to two relay panels - one for the = Great Octave that's unified to 4-5 pitches, and the other for the = Swell/Pedal Stopped Flute that's unified to about 7 pitches between the = swell and pedal.<BR> <BR> It appears, then, that the key switches have been carrying current for 2 = magnets each: the primary on the pitman chest and the relay on the relay = panel.<BR> <BR> When I rewire the organ, I see two options:<BR> <BR> 1.&nbsp; Run a single cable from each division (S, G, and P) to the = appropriate relay panel.&nbsp; Each relay has 10 contacts.&nbsp; One of = these contacts can go to the pitman chest primaries and the others used to = attach to the appropriate Reisner gang swithes (as they already are with = tiny white wires smaller than angel hair pasta).<BR> <BR> 2.&nbsp; Convert to solid state.&nbsp; I would love to do it, but I don't = want to spend $5000 to do it.&nbsp; I do hope to add a few ranks soon = after getting it playing as well as wanting to de-unify it somewhat.<BR> <BR> I've collected information on Musicom, Syndyne, Artisan Instruments, = Classic Organ Systems, Peterson, Emutek, Opus 2, and Devtronix (I think = that's all).<BR> <BR> I've been told that there's no reason to convert if my relay panels are = functional.&nbsp; I've studied them to the point that I think I've figured = them out.&nbsp; I'm afraid that I will have to rewire them and provide new = termination blocks.&nbsp; Since the gang switches for the two unified = ranks are connected by long pins representing the actual pipes of the = particular ranks, I may have to cut them apart in case I de-unify = somewhat.&nbsp; That way I can still use a couple gang switches to add in = new ranks later.<BR> <BR> Does anybody have any suggestions for me - or experience they can share - = regarding your switching mechanism for your organs.&nbsp; If you're = uncomfortable mentioning specific names of products, please e-mail me = privately, but I think the list would benefit from the discussion.&nbsp; I = would appreciate specific info, not just theory.<BR> <BR> Thanks so much.&nbsp; I hope everybody's having a Merry Christmas.&nbsp; = My 16 year old daughter is having a party in the basement right now with = about 10 kids from school.&nbsp; The couple boys should be leaving soon = leaving about 4 of the girls to spend the night.<BR> <BR> Keith Zimmerman<BR> Commerce, Georgia</FONT></HTML>   --part1_b8.342a9d7e.2b328595_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Devtronix From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:22:15 EST     --part1_7b.4f754f1.2b328757_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Guys,   I would appreciate any info as well as experience you may have with = Devtronix Solid State products. A professional told me to leave them alone, but I'm =   wondering if they'd still be a good cost-effective approach for a hobbiest = - in light of the possibility of my having to rewire my relay panels (see previous posting).   I am e-mailing Devtronix with my spec to see if I'm understanding their product correctly. I'm also asking for prices.   In giving your advice, please consider that:   1. cost is a major consideration, but I'm able to pay a little extra if = the time savings will be significant. 2. Right now, I don't need MIDI capability. 3. I think the manual coupling and combination action within the console = is functional. 4. The organ is basically straight pitman chests. I guess the main = reason for all this switching stuff anyway is due to the highly unified = Swell/Pedal Stopped Flute and the unified Great Octave. 5. As/If I add some ranks, I may add another pitman chest, or I may add a =   unit 4-5 rank unit chest (wired straight). There might be a little borrowing, so I will need some sort of relay mechanism - either mechanical = or solid state.   Thanks, Keith Zimmerman Commerce, Georgia   --part1_7b.4f754f1.2b328757_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Guys,<BR> <BR> I would appreciate any info as well as experience you may have with = Devtronix Solid State products.&nbsp; A professional told me to leave them = alone, but I'm wondering if they'd still be a good cost-effective approach = for a hobbiest - in light of the possibility of my having to rewire my = relay panels (see previous posting).<BR> <BR> I am e-mailing Devtronix with my spec to see if I'm understanding their = product correctly.&nbsp; I'm also asking for prices.<BR> <BR> In giving your advice, please consider that:<BR> <BR> 1.&nbsp;&nbsp; cost is a major consideration, but I'm able to pay a little = extra if the time savings will be significant.<BR> 2.&nbsp; Right now, I don't need MIDI capability.<BR> 3.&nbsp; I think the manual coupling and combination action within the = console is functional.<BR> 4.&nbsp; The organ is basically straight pitman chests.&nbsp; I guess the = main reason for all this switching stuff anyway is due to the highly = unified Swell/Pedal Stopped Flute and the unified Great Octave.<BR> 5.&nbsp; As/If I add some ranks, I may add another pitman chest, or I may = add a unit 4-5 rank unit chest (wired straight).&nbsp; There might be a = little borrowing, so I will need some sort of relay mechanism - either = mechanical or solid state.<BR> <BR> Thanks,<BR> Keith Zimmerman<BR> Commerce, Georgia</FONT></HTML>   --part1_7b.4f754f1.2b328757_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Visit to Milwaukee From: "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:21:48 -0500   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --B_3123091309_6189934 Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   That=3DB9s a rather typical Allen sales tactic =3DAD convince the church = that the pipe organ is just too expensive to keep up. Which is okay because everybody knows that Allens sound better anyway, right?   ~j     On 12/18/02 10:40 AM, "Pipewheezr@aol.com" <Pipewheezr@aol.com> wrote:   > Hi Phil, you might check with your local Allen or Rogers dealer to see = if=3D they > have sold anything in the area. > I kept in touch with the Allen people here and removed a Hall with 8 = unto=3D uched > ranks playing for $500. The church had bought a new Allen to replace the = =3D Hall > organ. They wanted to use the pipe chamber for speakers and storage. It = w=3D as > cheaper to buy the Allen then to releather the console on the Hall, the > salesman said? The chests had been releathered not to long ago. I asked = a=3D bout > this organ five or six years ago and finally the made the move two = replac=3D e the > pipe organ. The church and the Allen salesman couldn't see how it would = c=3D ome > out. The panel in the sealing where it would have to go was through was > hinged. No problem, the chest was bolted together in two big parts and = th=3D en > the off sets. It took a day with help from three friends with the heavy = s=3D tuff. > The blower was in the basement with a new transformer. > You should remove just one pipe organ if you can for the experience! > They are out there you have to do some snooping. > Have fun Dennis       --B_3123091309_6189934 Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: [Residence Organs] &nbsp;Visit to Milwaukee</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D3D"Verdana">That&#8217;s a rather typical Allen sales tactic = &#821=3D 1; convince the church that the pipe organ is just too expensive to keep = up.=3D &nbsp;Which is okay because everybody knows that Allens sound better = anyway=3D , right?<BR> <BR> ~j<BR> <BR> <BR> On 12/18/02 10:40 AM, &quot;Pipewheezr@aol.com&quot; = &lt;Pipewheezr@aol.com=3D &gt; wrote:<BR> <BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D3D"Arial">Hi Phil, you might check with = your lo=3D cal Allen or Rogers dealer to see if they have sold anything in the area. = &n=3D bsp;<BR> I kept in touch with the Allen people here and removed a Hall with 8 = untouc=3D hed ranks playing for $500. The church had bought a new Allen to replace = the=3D Hall organ. They wanted to use the pipe chamber for speakers and storage. = I=3D t was cheaper to buy the Allen then to releather the console on the Hall, = th=3D e salesman said? The chests had been releathered not to long ago. I asked = ab=3D out this organ five or six years ago and finally the made the move two = repla=3D ce the pipe organ. The church and the Allen salesman couldn't see how it = wou=3D ld come out. The panel in the sealing where it would have to go was = through =3D was hinged. No problem, the chest was bolted together in two big parts and = t=3D hen the off sets. It took a day with help from three friends with the = heavy =3D stuff.<BR> The blower was in the basement with a new transformer. <BR> You should remove just one pipe organ if you can for the experience!<BR> They are out there you have to do some snooping.<BR> Have fun Dennis<BR> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D3D"Verdana"><BR> </FONT> </BODY> </HTML>     --B_3123091309_6189934--