DIYAPASON-L Digest #523 - Wednesday, February 20, 2002
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: making DE valves
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <>
Raising cutup / was Measuring mouth height or  cutup of Gedackt
  by <>

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: making DE valves From: "Eric Sagmuller" <> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:05:12 -0500   I have to agree here too. My organ is taking a long time as it is without even trying to make most of the "parts" themselves.   I too started looking for DE valves and in less than a year I had found over 900 of these for no more than $1.00 a piece. Most of these I got from =   some converted Moller chests advertised on the Church Organ Trader that an =   organ builder wanted to get rid of. I also saw numerous others for sale = too including Matter's. It's just a matter of watching the for sale ads and some patience.   When I first started my project I thought I had to find things quickly to get the project done. Here a couple years later I'm still slowly watching it grow and have obtained many useful parts at very reasonable prices in the mean time, without just rushing into spending alot to get them = quickly.   I plan to be building a number of chests in time, and that along with all the other work is plenty. I find it hard as it is to find time to play the =   instrument, and that is also very important to me.   Happy organ building to all!   Eric     At 06:57 PM 2/19/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Hello, everyone! > >To Larry Chace: Thank you for your "lengthy blather"! [your term -- not >mine!] Needless to say, I agree completely with all that you have said = in >your very thoughtful posting. I had started to write my own version of >the same basic thing -- but hadn't completed it yet -- thanks for saving >me the trouble! (you said it better than I could have anyway!) > >Permit me to copy the last few lines, for anyone that might have managed >to miss the very end of Larry's posting. I think this is the most >important idea of all, actually. > >At 12:25 PM 2/19/2002 -0500, Larry Chace wrote: ><snipping LOTS of really good info> >>Anyway, sorry for the lengthy blather, and best wishes on your project, >>Christopher! Building (assembling, whatever) a residence pipe organ, = even >>a small one, is a large enough project, and it is good to avoid getting >>bogged down in things that aren't central to the result. > >Christopher, I commend your interest in constructing your own magnets, = but >if the ultimate goal is to obtain an operable and reliable windchest for >use in an organ, you'll probably be better off finding some sort of >premanufactured units. You'll have plenty of other challenges and >problems to solve...<g>! > >Now, this is not to suggest that you couldn't still experiment, research, =   >and/or somehow develop a new sort of organ magnet (or improve an existing =   >design) -- there's a long history of all things 'organic' having been >developed in just such a way. I wish I had more time available for just >such "experimentation" occasionally, in fact. > >Thanks everyone, for a good thread! > >Cheers, > >Tim Bovard >Little Rock AR > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : >List: >Administration: >    
(back) Subject: Raising cutup / was Measuring mouth height or cutup of Gedackt From: <> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:55:02 EST   << Thanks Al. I had a feeling that the pipes would act as though they have = a slightly lower cutup, but just wasn't sure how one would measure it then. =   My first 12 pipes of the 8' octave have a sunken languid. For a time I've =   known that these pipes have too low a cutup and sound is very quinty with =   little fundamental. What it the best way to cut up the upper lip, and how =   much of a bevel or edge should be reapplied after they are raised? >Thanks, >Eric >>   Dear Eric:   Sorry for the delay in answering, I was trying to formulate a response = that would make sense and be helpful. Proper cutup is whole study in itself. = The cutup is a function of wind pressure, scale, and voicing for a specific timbre. It would be impossible via email to give decent advice as to how = you should or could raise the upper lip successfully. A voicer always first looks at the work of his predecessor when doing revoicing. You look to = see if the upper lip is directly over the windway (slit) or offset to give = more of the 3rd and 5th harmonics. You measure the height of the mouth in relation to the circumference. You note the wind pressure normally = stamped or scribed on the 8' CC pipe. A low cutup for a given pressure will tell = you the pipe was supposed to generate more harmonic content, etceteras. To = raise the cutup on a metal pipe is a simple process of using a draw knife on a scribe line laid out with a proportional divider to cut the new upper lip. = Wood pipes require a super sharp chisel and a steady hand with the idea = that you must also raise the top of the beveled area above the upper lip as you =   go. The proportional dividers will give the line for the upper lip once = you have chosen the correct cutup you want to impart. The whole process is = time consuming and slow because you do not want to rush and make a mistake. = Then too you may have arched upper lips which give more fundamental from the 4' =   octave up that you wish to match timbre. Without seeing and *hearing* the =   pipes first I could not by email give you a good starting point from which = to work. See if you can contact someone in your area who can help with "ears = on - hands on" expertise. Sorry to not be able to give definitive guides but =   organbuilding and voicing are still arts rather than sciences!   Lastly, some metal pipes sag with age which causes the upper lip to bow outward. This will give you a more woolly sound of added harmonics. Your = 8' octave could just be in need of some general maintenance to bring the fundamental back to prominence.   Best to you,   Al Sefl   PS: I am still trying to figure out what a "sunken languid" is? Do you mean a raised face with a step down behind it? ;-)