DIYAPASON-L Digest #488 - Thursday, January 10, 2002
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Orgoblo amperage/heaters
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Orgoblo amperage/heaters
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Orgoblo amperage/heaters
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Orgoblo amperage/heaters
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Orgoblo amperage/heaters
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Orgoblo amperage/heaters
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Orgoblo amperage/heaters
  by <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Orgoblo amperage/heaters
  by "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Orgoblo amperage/heaters
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Orgoblo amperage/heaters From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:40:50 -0800   I'll bet it is running on 110VAC. If it was running on 220VAC, it would draw about 6A. Another good reason to have 220 wired into the organ room, or at least into the blower room.   At 09:31 PM 1/9/02 -0500, Jon wrote: >That=B9s a lot of current. > >On 1/9/02 9:16 PM, "Mpmollerorgan@aol.com" <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> wrote: > >> I borrowed a snap around meter and tested out my 2 HP orgoblow's current >> consumption >> and the readings showed it takes per hot wire a 35 amp peak to start and then >> idles at 11-1/4 amps, opening up a 4" and (2) 3" windlines and weighed down >> some keys so it was running pretty much at full load, raised the reading= to >> about 14 amps. Rectifier idling was about 4 amps. >>=20 >> Randall >> http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/ >>=20 >> DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >> Residence Pipe Organs. >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >>=20 >>=20 > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA=20 http://home.jps.net/~rrloesch/index.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Orgoblo amperage/heaters From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:09:01 -0500   That current is about right at 230V for a 2 HP motor, that Randall measured.     At 09:40 PM 1/9/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I'll bet it is running on 110VAC. If it was running on 220VAC, it would >draw about 6A. Another good reason to have 220 wired into the organ room, >or at least into the blower room. > >At 09:31 PM 1/9/02 -0500, Jon wrote: > >That=B9s a lot of current.    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Orgoblo amperage/heaters From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:37:39 EST     In a message dated 1/9/02 11:42:00 PM, rrloesch@jps.net writes:   >I'll bet it is running on 110VAC. If it was running on 220VAC, it would >draw about 6A. Another good reason to have 220 wired into the organ = room, >or at least into the blower room.     No, it is ON 220v, 2 hot wires and one ground     Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Orgoblo amperage/heaters From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:01:36 -0800   As I stand here, the egg is running down my face, and has clearly gotten into my eyes. I arose to get my reference to prove you all wrong, and = find that it is, alas, ME who is wrong! 2hp will indeed draw about 11A = @220VAC. Sorry! I'll try to remember to look it up BEFORE I hit 'send'... ;-)     At 09:37 AM 1/10/02 EST, Mpmollerorgan@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 1/9/02 11:42:00 PM, rrloesch@jps.net writes: > >>I'll bet it is running on 110VAC. If it was running on 220VAC, it would >>draw about 6A. Another good reason to have 220 wired into the organ = room, >>or at least into the blower room. > > >No, it is ON 220v, 2 hot wires and one ground > > >Randall >http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/ > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA http://home.jps.net/~rrloesch/index.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Orgoblo amperage/heaters From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:49:02 EST     In a message dated 1/10/02 11:03:39 AM, rrloesch@jps.net writes:   >As I stand here, the egg is running down my face, and has clearly gotten >into my eyes. I arose to get my reference to prove you all wrong, and >find >that it is, alas, ME who is wrong! 2hp will indeed draw about 11A = @220VAC. > Sorry! I'll try to remember to look it up BEFORE I hit 'send'... ;-)   Nah, heck I did it the other night with the stupid pedal contact board, = not a minute after I hit send I realized why I was confused LOL!   So to clarify for all, the motor registered 11-1/4 amps per wire on idle, = for a total draw of 22-1/2 amps and 28 amps total draw on full load through the electric = meter. And @ .07 a KWH I figured will cost $0.35 + - an hour to operate the = organ. Looks like I'm in good shape, need to derate the breakers which are 30 = amps to the fused disconnect which has 20 amp fuses, the #8 wire I used is good =   for the load with extra capacity.   Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Orgoblo amperage/heaters From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:38:38 -0500   At 01:49 PM 1/10/2002 -0500, you wrote:     >So to clarify for all, the motor registered 11-1/4 amps per wire on idle, = for >a total draw of >22-1/2 amps and 28 amps total draw on full load through the electric = meter. >And @ .07 a KWH I figured will cost $0.35 + - an hour to operate the = organ. >Looks like I'm in good shape, need to derate the breakers which are 30 = amps >to the fused disconnect which has 20 amp fuses, the #8 wire I used is = good >for the load with extra capacity.   One does not double the current, as it flows in one wire and out the = other. So the meter gives a direct reading. A 20 amp circuit should be fine and make sure there is a motor starter to protect the motor from overloads as discussed here recently. Number 8 wire is plenty big enough rated at at least 40 amps.   Also, you can not directly multiply the current times the voltage to get the watts used unless the motor is at full load, then it should be pretty close. When the motor is idling much of the current being drawn is "apparent" power rather than "real" power being used, as the voltage and current are quite out of phase with each other. A motor with a "run" capacitor does quite a bit better. The only way to really check this is with a watt meter.   Eric     >Randall >http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/ > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Orgoblo amperage/heaters From: <Mpmollerorgan@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:38:30 EST     In a message dated 1/10/02 1:38:58 PM, ess4@psu.edu writes:   >At 01:49 PM 1/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > >>So to clarify for all, the motor registered 11-1/4 amps per wire on = idle, >for >>a total draw of >>22-1/2 amps and 28 amps total draw on full load through the electric >meter. >>And @ .07 a KWH I figured will cost $0.35 + - an hour to operate the = organ. >>Looks like I'm in good shape, need to derate the breakers which are 30     >One does not double the current, as it flows in one wire and out the = other.   Hi Eric, Let me see if I have this right and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!   I understand where that works on 110 volts, with one hot, one ground, and = the current in one out the other... but my motor which is 110/220 is wired to 220, with (2) 110volt hot leads plus a neutral and a bare copper frame = ground. I used a snap on meter which the thing said snap it over one wire only, I would assume then the reading is amps for that one wire which should be = the same as the other hot wire if balanced and not having a 110volt load added = to one of the wires. So if I read motor plates correctly it doesn't matter if =   it's wired to 110 or 220 it uses the same total amps but on 220 the amps = are divided over two wires whcih can allow the use of smaller gauge wire which =   cuts costs a little too.   A typical plate Iv'e seen might read;   110/220 volts 30/15 amps   With the 30 amps on one wire @110v or 15 amps on each of two wires for = 220v still uses 30 total amps at the meter for which you pay.   John Panning at work measured the LA cathedral's 10 HP orgoblow, it is 3 phase and said he started it up and the reading was 125 amps and then = dropped down to about 15 amps at idle. I am assuming one would multiply THAT by = the 3 hot wires to come up with a draw of about 45 amps total. If it was just 15 =   amps I would say something is wrong because a small electric household = space heater will use that much! I am assuming my post wasn't clear enough and you were thinking 110 volts = one wire in and a ground.   >Also, you can not directly multiply the current times the voltage to get >the watts used unless the motor is at full load, then it should be pretty >close. When the motor is idling much of the current being drawn is >"apparent" power rather than "real" power being used, as the voltage and >current are quite out of phase with each other. A motor with a "run" >capacitor does quite a bit better. The only way to really check this is > >with a watt meter. > >Eric   Interesting! Well what I actually did to arrive at the cost per hour was not using the watt method or multitester and math which, all things considered doesn't = mean a lot, what DOES is what the electric meter outside on the wall reads when =   the guy from the power company stops by to write down it's readings!   I ran the blower a specified amount of time by the clock and compared the =   electric meter reading before and after. The blower and the rectifier together used 5 KW's in one hour's time. Since I pay 7 cents a KWH I came = up with about 35 cents per hour + - as a minimum, from THAT reading. It would rise slightly from that depending on how many stops and what was being played, which would of course translate to increasing the load. I = came up with 14 amp reading on the one hot wire at full load up from 11-1/4 at idle, so the actual cost per hour averaged out might be closer to 40 to 45 =   cents assuming all of the organ working and use of couplers and playing pieces that use big chords and low notes.     Randall http://members.aol.com/mpmollerorgan/  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Orgoblo amperage/heaters From: "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:18:33 -0500       > A typical plate Iv'e seen might read; > > 110/220 volts > 30/15 amps > > With the 30 amps on one wire @110v or 15 amps on each of two wires for = 220v > still uses 30 total amps at the meter for which you pay. > The motor is essentially connected between two wires. Either the two hots in the 220 case or the hot and the neutral wire in the 110 case. = Regardless of which way it is, the came current goes-into one as comes-outof the = other.   There shouldn't be any current on the grounding conductor, it's only there to keep the stuff that's not supposed to have electricity on it dead.   However, power is a function of VOLTAGE and CURRENT (we'll neglect power factor for right now). A larger voltage means you can get the same power with less current.  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Orgoblo amperage/heaters From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:41:15 -0600   At 08:38 PM 1/10/02 -0500, you wrote: >With the 30 amps on one wire @110v or 15 amps on each of two wires for = 220v >still uses 30 total amps at the meter for which you pay.   In either case a circuit consists of two wire...either 110v to neutral (which is 110v across the pair) or 220v which in essence is two 110v lines....your input from the power company is 220v with a neutral. The circuits are then split into 110v to the nuetral. A good balanced system will have the same amount of circuits on each leg of the 220 line. Using a =   220v hook up for your motor balances the line as the 15a is flowing = through each leg rather than drawing the full 30a off one leg which is what = happens when you hook the motor up to a 110v circuit. The more efficient your system is, the better off you will be in power consumption.....   jch