DIYAPASON-L Digest #493 - Tuesday, January 15, 2002
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Pipe Spacing
  by "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com>
Pipe vertical spacing and Slider lube/gasket
  by <d.doerschuk@att.net>
*** VERY SORRY *** for including original message!!!
  by <d.doerschuk@att.net>
Update and some voicing
  by "Elders, Craig" <c.elders@tcu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Pipe vertical spacing and Slider lube/gasket
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
Pipe Spacing
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Pipe Spacing From: "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:04:07 -0800 (PST)   How about spacing of pipes in the same row? That's where the 1 inch came in. I forgot about asking how far to have the rows spaced apart, thanks for that information!   Thank you! Paul     --- The Schneider Family <arpschneider@starband.net> wrote: > Paul Soulek wrote: > > > I am getting to the stage of building the chest > for my 61-note 4' Open > > Diapason rank. What is the proper spacing to have > between pipes? > > <snip> > > > Any tips? > > The best practice allows at least the diameter of > the pipe in front of > the mouth for speaking room. The rest is leaving > enough room so that > you can reach the tuning slides comfortably. > > Faithfully, > > Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO > SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. > Pipe Organ Builders > 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 > Kenney, IL 61749-0137 > (217) 944-2454 VOX > (217) 944-2527 FAX > mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL > mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL > http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and > builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/  
(back) Subject: Pipe vertical spacing and Slider lube/gasket From: <d.doerschuk@att.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:32:05 +0000   Greetings Fellow Schnitger-wannabes;   The list has been discussing horizontal pipe spacing, and Mr. Richard Schneider recommended 1 diameter as a minimum rule of thumb. (diameter of pipe, not thumb :- ) I would like ask about vertical placement.   I've seen and heard divisions where the builder clearly went to a lot of trouble to give each pipe mouth a reasonably clear "view" of the hall. There seem to be several means of achieving this: blocks on top of the chests elevating the pipe toes, and especially for wooden pipes, extended feet. I've never seen a "stair- stepped" chest, but I suppose they're perfectly possible.   My questions about this are: 1) Is there a predictive rule that prompts a builder to know that he must raise a rank (or part thereof)? It would be much better to predict the need, rather than to wait for the finisher to say: "Yoicks, that rank sounds strangled!" 2) Since there will always be some physical interference from further-front ranks, is the actual goal in raising ranks to give their pipe mouths a clearer acoustic path to the hall, or to simply make their mouths non-coplanar with further-front ranks?   A second, totally unrelated question has to do with a recent post where someone (Mike Gettlemann?) saw N&S building a slider chest and coating the sliders with a slippery liquid with the intention of perhaps both forming a liquid air gasket, and simultaneously lubricating the slider action? Does anyone know what this liquid is? Was either wood surface leathered or felted, or is the liquid simply applied to the scraped and finished wood? Surely, it wasn't bare wood? Does the stuff hold up over time, or require periodic replenishment? Come on, we need details! :-) This kind of casual fish-hook remark reminds me of an engineer I worked with many years ago who enjoyed leaving meetings with similar cliff-hangers: "Oh, geez, gotta run, power company's having problems with the 4160 feed to my workshop."   Thanks for the help, and best of luck to all in their projects!   David Doerschuk "Lord, what a night! Lost a cooling pump; core went NUTS, I was using the tree swing rope to move the control rods and it broke, the kids WON'T stay out of the damn swimming pool even though I told them not to go in if it starts to boil; then the neighbors start whining about the heat melting their precious vinyl siding and about 2am the dog's glowing in the dark. Sheesh, we're trying to do a little SCIENCE here, folks!" > DIYAPASON-L Digest #492 - Monday, January 14, 2002 > > Re: [Residence Organs] Removing Masking Tape > by <DAJAMES@aol.com> > [Residence Organs] Re: NEVRDULL/ Soldering Pipes > by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> > Cleaning chimes/Paint pipes > by "Robert W. Taylor" <rtaylor@sockets.net> > Pipe Spacing > by "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> > Pipe Spacing > by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Removing Masking Tape > From: <DAJAMES@aol.com> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:51:16 EST > > > --part1_bc.1fe0987c.2973cbd4_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Try some GOOF-OFF sold at most paint stores. It does work on masking = tape. > > --part1_bc.1fe0987c.2973cbd4_boundary > Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" > LANG=3D"0">Try some GOOF-OFF sold at most paint stores. It does work on = masking > tape.</FONT></HTML> > > --part1_bc.1fe0987c.2973cbd4_boundary-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: NEVRDULL/ Soldering Pipes > From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:54:49 -0800 > > >Hi John V and Paul: > > > > I would like to know whether you have used the NEVRDULl on pipes > >without removing the paint from them first. My basses are painted > >with silver paint, and it is a very bad job. If there is something > >I can use without having to strip the pipes first, that would be > >great. > > I would use a paintstripper first and then polish. i've done that > with varnish. some other thoughts out there? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Cleaning chimes/Paint pipes > From: "Robert W. Taylor" <rtaylor@sockets.net> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:41:24 -0600 > > Hi All, > > I receive the list in digest form, so my replies may be out of sequence. > Larry Wheelock wanted to know about cleaning flat black paint from his > chimes....After his post, I saw no direct answer, but rather the = discussion > quickly went off in a new direction. > > Since Larry seems to have eliminated latex paint, I assume that the = paint > is either lacquer or oil based. Try using lacquer thinner to remove = both. > Once the paint is removed, the chimes may need to be polished and > relacquered if they had a clear lacquer coating. > > When winding by using PVC, I have seen many installations, mostly = theatre, > that have left the PVC pipe white. The printing has been removed of > course. The ultimate show place, the Sanfilippo 5/80 installation, has > painted all PVC a nice brown. This blends well with the hardwood = floors. > The clear finished chests, framing, and rackboards really look sharp. > White PVC would have detracted from that look, especially the main = truck, > which I think is 36 or 40 inch PVC leading from the 50hp blower. > > On my own installation, I plan on painting the PVC within the chambers = and > open areas. The parts below the chamber floor and in the blower room = will > be left unpainted. I haven't decided which color will work best, as all > the Aeolian chests are that ghastly yellow. > > Bob Taylor > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Pipe Spacing > From: "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:18:01 -0600 > > I am getting to the stage of building the chest for my 61-note 4' Open > Diapason rank. What is the proper spacing to have between pipes? Would 1 > inch be a good guide? When I say 1 inch between pipes, that means from > the outside of the pipe-- 1 inch between one pipe and the next, no > matter how wide or slim the pipes are. Any tips? > > Thank you! > Paul > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Pipe Spacing > From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:10:18 -0600 > > Paul Soulek wrote: > > > I am getting to the stage of building the chest for my 61-note 4' Open > > Diapason rank. What is the proper spacing to have between pipes? > > <snip> > > > Any tips? > > The best practice allows at least the diameter of the pipe in front of > the mouth for speaking room. The rest is leaving enough room so that > you can reach the tuning slides comfortably. > > Faithfully, > > Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO > SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. > Pipe Organ Builders > 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 > Kenney, IL 61749-0137 > (217) 944-2454 VOX > (217) 944-2527 FAX > mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL > mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL > http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > End of DIYAPASON-L Digest > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own = Residence > Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >  
(back) Subject: *** VERY SORRY *** for including original message!!! From: <d.doerschuk@att.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:37:53 +0000   All; I'm extremely sorry for accidentally including the entire digest as a suffix to my previous post. Really, what a stupid mistake. Please accept my apologies. Regretfully, David Doerschuk  
(back) Subject: Update and some voicing From: "Elders, Craig" <c.elders@tcu.edu> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:33:10 -0600   Good day to everyone.   I thought I would give an update on Eleanor, my pipe organ. As many of = you know, I have some new pipework to replace some existing ranks, a 16/8 wood Gedeckt to replace a smaller scale Gedeckt, a new 4' Rohrflute to replace = an old-not-so-good Harmonic flute, and a new 2' Great Super Octave I had make to replace my 2' screamer on the Great. The wood Gedeckt has been laying around the house since last March, and I mean laying around all over the house. It is just so hard to hide the low octave under the bed or in a guest room or somewhere. I had been putting off the install and getting = my voicer over to help me because after all the years of building and it now playing, if I have some time, I would rather play!   But my voicer is leaving town to join the staff of a builder in another state. So I had to get off the bench and get to work! My Gedeck chests were/are easy to get to so I could re-drill any rack boards. However, I = had to remove the Gamba Celeste, Viola Celest, 4' Principal and 4' Harmonic flute to be able to pull the rack board to redrill the rackboard for the = new Rohrflute. That took 9 hours to do! (That is why I have waited so long to make the move!). But everything is ready to go.   I have not been around any voicing work on wood pipes before. I have = worked with nicking or filling the nicks and toe openings, but that is about all = I have done or seen. My new wood Gedeckt had very low cut-ups. And I found that when you open the toes on them, the 5th, quint, became very loud - no fundamental. So I knew that the cutup was going to have to be raised. It has sure been interesting to see this done. Little saws and files to cut the wood. Then files to get the correct angle. Then like magic, a big round full sound. Just what I was looking for. The scale of my original Gedeckt was just too small and the pipework was not that good so I hated = to spend time and effort in trying to rescale, especially since this is a "major" foundation for my Swell division. Again, very interesting in = seeing a wood pipe voiced and what can be "adjusted" to get the sound I wanted = and needed. I hope after a few more evenings, my new Gedeckt will be all finished.   My new Rohrflute will also need new cutups. My pipework speaks, but has = not been voiced (does the pipemaker call this pre-voiced? I have heard that term before but do not know what it means exactly.) The cutup is low and = no nicks, so Mr. Voicer will have to spend some time with that. My new 2' = has arrived from the pipemaker and will also need to be voiced. My local builder friend loans me his little portable voicing organ. That is a keyboard mounted on a little chest. I just run a air hose from a = regulator to it and hook up a power supply. Put the little organ on two saw horses and gives Mr. Voicer a good workplace. It sure makes things go faster for him. Then when we put the pipes back on their chests, just little adjustments are needed due to placement and how they sound *there*.   Anyway, Eleanor is sounding better each day.   The best to everyone in this new year!   Craig      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Pipe vertical spacing and Slider lube/gasket From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:41:29 -0500   See, there David, all cleaned up and no harm done (grin) A little editing = does wonders. I always wondered what a Diyapason Digest looked like anyway. When I posed this information about N&S chest construction, I assumed = our esteemed hosts for this list (who are both N&S employees) would jump in = and help me out. Unfortunately, most of the N&S crew is currently scattered all over = the country and are busier than a rooster in a hen house, so I'll take my best shot at = clearing up these questions. The slippery coating applied to the slider (which is made of a poly = carbonate material if I remember right--very tough stuff) is an automotive product = that Joe Nichols told me is the slipperiest stuff in the world. It is sprayed on = both sides of the slider just before final assembly. I do not know the name of this = stuff but suspect it is along the lines of Slick 50 or some such teflon based = coating Each wind hole in the top of the chest has a special spring loaded = compressible grommet installed in a counter sink a bit larger than the wind hole to = hold it in place when the slider moves over it. The underside of the toe board has a surprisingly small felt circle gasket surrounding each toe hole that seals = against the top of the slider through the spring tension of the grommets pushing = the slider up against the bottom of the toe board. The only points of contact for the = slider are the felt gaskets and the top of the spring loaded grommets. Wood never = touches wood. The whole thing comes together when the slider is placed atop the = chest grommets, then the toe board is placed atop the slider. The assembly is = screwed together using appropriate sized bushing spacers placed between the top = board of the chest and the bottom of the toe board through which the screws pass. The = spacers insure that the appropriate amount of pressure is applied to compress the = spring loaded grommets and seal the whole slider assembly. I was suitably impressed with the logical simplicity of the system, = and in awe of the precision of design and construction necessary to insure the whole = thing works with no leaks, and for a very very long time. I asked Joe if the = lubricant ever needed to be renewed, and in the style he is well known for, economy = of words, he simply said "nope" and smiled.   Cheers I hope I helped and didn't just confuse Mike     d.doerschuk@att.net wrote:   > (SNIP) > > A second, totally unrelated question has to do with a > recent post where someone (Mike Gettlemann?) saw N&S > building a slider chest and coating the sliders with a > slippery liquid with the intention of perhaps both > forming a liquid air gasket, and simultaneously > lubricating the slider action? Does anyone know what > this liquid is? Was either wood surface leathered or > felted, or is the liquid simply applied to the scraped > and finished wood? Surely, it wasn't bare wood? Does > the stuff hold up over time, or require periodic > replenishment? Come on, we need details! :-)    
(back) Subject: Pipe Spacing From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:21:02 -0600   Paul Soulek wrote: > How about spacing of pipes in the same row? That's > where the 1 inch came in. I forgot about asking how > far to have the rows spaced apart, thanks for that > information!   Paul, I would settle on a proportion. What we usually do is use round metal pipe patterns laid-out on a piece of brown wrapping paper before committing to it. (Now, we use CADD, of course!).   It's mostly a point of getting the spacing to "look right"! One inch may be too narrow in the larger pipes, and a bit "generous" in the trebles. It should vary in size, especially if you have this in mind for decorative display (en-facade) and not just strictly from a functional standpoint.   Faithfully, Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL