DIYAPASON-L Digest #494 - Wednesday, January 16, 2002
 
Some Answers/Clarifications
  by "David Scribner" <dcscribner@earthlink.net>
Re: Slider Chests
  by <Jess4203@aol.com>
Re: Pipe vertical spacing and Slider lube/gasket
  by "David O. Doerschuk" <d.doerschuk@att.net>
 

(back) Subject: Some Answers/Clarifications From: "David Scribner" <dcscribner@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:03:37 -0600   As you might notice i am answering from an address that is not my usual one - I'm currently in Kalamazoo, MI where the whole N&S crew has been for several day removing pipework that we will be reusing for the new Cathedral organ up here.   First of all racking. What Mike was referring to is what Richard called "sky racks" We use upper racking on all of the 8' octaves of ranks and for the 8' and 4' octaves of full length reeds. These are in addition to the usual rack boards at standard rackboard height. These upper racks are supported by 1" by 2" "sticks" which is what Mike referred to as "dowels" The bottom end of the "sticks" (our shop parlance for them) have two hanger bolts inserted in them and we drill holes in the rack board and fasten the upper racks with washers and nuts for easy removal. For the flues we scallop the upper rack, felt it and have holes for twill tape to tie in the pipes. For reeds we measure the resonators at the correct height and cut the holes in the upper racks with a channel from the edge to the hole. The holes are felted and we can insert the resonators by lifting them up a bit higher than where the sit so there is no need for twill tape to tie in the pipes. The bottom 6 notes of the 8' octave also get an second, higher rack to keep them perfectly straight and to avoid any chance of collapse.   Mike is right about our pride of workmanship in our finish of the interior parts of our instruments. ALL parts of the organ, weither they are ever seen or not, are sanded and finished with a lacquer finish. When we finish assembly the interior of the chamber looks like fine furniture - well, all most <G> We kind of have it down to a science that we sand and lacquer everything as we finish up the various components. Parts that might be seen through the case work are finished with black lacquer so they don't stand out like sore thumbs.   We also sand and lacquer all the wood pipes that we may reuse from a previous organ for the new one. Currently there is a truck loaded up here that will go back to Little Rock tomorrow with all the wooden pipes from the old Casavant that will return in the new organ. All of these will be cleaned and lacquered before we bring them back up here in several months. Again, this is the pride that each and everyone one of us in the company take in not only producing a fine sounding organ but also in a fine looking organ.   I think the lube that Mike was referring to is called "MacLube" or something like that. i will have to wait until I get back to the shop to double check the name of it. It is painted on the sliders and the slider seals at the church when we are doing the final assembly of the chests. Although it "dries" from its liquid state after application the "slipperiness" remains and does not have to be renewed.   I do have some photos on my computer at home taken of our Dallas instrument when we finished the installation and once i get home at the end of the week and catch up with a few necessary things after being on the road for a week, I will try to post some of them to the list web site. Hopefully the photos with speak for themselves and illustrate what Mike started discussing and what I am trying to answer tonight. It has been a couple of very long days taking down and storing the case from the old organ, which will be reused for our new one, removing the pipework we are reusing and loading the trailer and the truck. The truck goes directly back to Little Rock and I take the trailer to Schopp's with some of the case pipes that need to be worked for the new organ.   Tim should be back home tomorrow - he is currently on the road as i write this - probably somewhere in Illinois - so he might be able to expand this and or clarify anything else that needs answers.   In closing I want to say that I was, as the List Owner, a bit upset when I read the beginnings of a flame war over this past weekend. Some of us work in shops that build new instruments and our shops have our specific ways of doing things. And some of us have strong opinions especially if we see things that go against how we are trained to do specific things. But there is no reason for others to get into a flame war over those opinions. We are all here to learn from each other. I have had one person ask to be removed from the list because of this outburst this weekend. That person hasn't been removed since I really don't have access to the server when on the road right now and i hope that person will reconsider before i get home this weekend. The whole reason for this list is to help each other.   I think I have rambled on long enough and it is late and I have LOTS of driving ahead over the next several days!   David  
(back) Subject: Re: Slider Chests From: <Jess4203@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:06:46 EST     --part1_17f.222ef55.29767276_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/15/02 9:37:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, Mike writes: > > Each wind hole in the top of the chest has a special spring loaded > compressible > grommet installed in a counter sink a bit larger than the wind hole to = hold > it in > place when the slider moves over it. [etc.]     Hi Mike and list:   There are a couple of diagrams of this kind of thing in Klotz's book, I believe the title is "The Organ Handbook." Also a lot of baroque specifications. Interesting that the first edition was written in 1937. Evidently the "Organ Reform Movement" began rather earlier than I thought. = I think the date for the seminal conference in Europe was about 1928, but it =   really hit here more in the 50's, I think.   I think these gasketed chests are a newer invention. I don't know whether =   the original Mr. Schnitger's were just fitted very tightly or whether they =   just leaked . . . does our Arp [in the cornpatch] or someone know? I am = not about to build a slider chest this year, but I do dream . . . does anyone have a reference for pipe scales for something like the Compenius organ a Buckeborg? You know, the all wood pipe organ.   Regards, Roy Kersey         --part1_17f.222ef55.29767276_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/15/02 9:37:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, Mike writes: <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Each wind hole in the top of the chest has a = special spring loaded compressible <BR>grommet installed in a counter sink a bit larger than the wind hole to = hold it in <BR>place when the slider moves over it. [etc.]</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"arial" = LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Hi Mike and list: <BR> <BR>There are a couple of diagrams of this kind of thing in Klotz's book, = I believe the title is "The Organ Handbook." &nbsp;Also a lot of baroque = specifications. &nbsp;Interesting that the first edition was written in = 1937. &nbsp;Evidently the "Organ Reform Movement" began rather earlier = than I thought. &nbsp;I think the date for the seminal conference in = Europe was about 1928, but it really hit here more in the 50's, I think. <BR> <BR>I think these gasketed chests are a newer invention. &nbsp;I don't = know whether the original Mr. Schnitger's were just fitted very tightly or = whether they just leaked . . . does our Arp [in the cornpatch] or someone = know? &nbsp;I am not about to build a slider chest this year, but I do = dream . . . does anyone have a reference for pipe scales for something = like the Compenius organ a Buckeborg? &nbsp;You know, the all wood pipe = organ. <BR> <BR>Regards, <BR>Roy Kersey </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_17f.222ef55.29767276_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe vertical spacing and Slider lube/gasket From: "David O. Doerschuk" <d.doerschuk@att.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:11:36 -0600   Mike, N&S use polycarbonate (e.g. "Lexan") for their sliders? And then hose'em down with Slick 50? That is fantastic! Talk about living on the edge! = How do they keep the Slick 50 from being absorbed into the wood; does the polycarbonate slider move inside a polycarbonate channel? From your description, it seems like the polycarbonate slider is moving on wood, right? Their felt gasket and sprung grommet seal technique must work extremely well, otherwise, given the amount of airborne dust and grit that moves through a typical organ's wind system the Slick 50 lubricant would quickly become so dirty that the slider wouldn't move at all.   Thanks very much for a look at an extremely interesting adaptation of = modern materials to a much older design!   David   Mike Gettelman <mike3247@earthlink.net> wrote: ...... (material deleted)..... The slippery coating applied to the slider (which is made of a poly carbonate material if I remember right--very tough stuff) is an automotive product that Joe Nichols told me is the slipperiest stuff in the world. It is sprayed on = both sides of the slider just before final assembly. I do not know the name of this stuff but suspect it is along the lines of Slick 50 or some such teflon based = coating Each wind hole in the top of the chest has a special spring loaded compressible grommet installed in a counter sink a bit larger than the wind hole to = hold it in place when the slider moves over it. The underside of the toe board has a surprisingly small felt circle gasket surrounding each toe hole that seals against the top of the slider through the spring tension of the grommets pushing = the slider up against the bottom of the toe board. The only points of contact for the slider are the felt gaskets and the top of the spring loaded grommets. Wood never touches wood. The whole thing comes together when the slider is placed atop the chest grommets, then the toe board is placed atop the slider. The assembly is screwed together using appropriate sized bushing spacers placed between the top board of the chest and the bottom of the toe board through which the screws pass. The spacers insure that the appropriate amount of pressure is applied to compress the spring loaded grommets and seal the whole slider assembly. ...... (material deleted)..... Mike finished by noting that the lubricant lasts an extremely long time, = in fact, there is no schedule for renewing it!   d.doerschuk@att.net wrote:   > (SNIP) > > A second, totally unrelated question has to do with a > recent post where someone (Mike Gettlemann?) saw N&S > building a slider chest and coating the sliders with a > slippery liquid with the intention of perhaps both > forming a liquid air gasket, and simultaneously > lubricating the slider action? Does anyone know what > this liquid is? Was either wood surface leathered or > felted, or is the liquid simply applied to the scraped > and finished wood? Surely, it wasn't bare wood? Does > the stuff hold up over time, or require periodic > replenishment? Come on, we need details! :-)