DIYAPASON-L Digest #509 - Thursday, January 31, 2002
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  combo action pneumatic
  by "Trailrider" <horseback@shell.core.com>
Re:[Residence organs] Small Blower
  by "GLEN" <ianglen@blueyonder.co.uk>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION!
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION!
  by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION!
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
reverberation
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: [Residence Organs]  reverberation
  by "F. Richard Burt" <dorian.organs@verizon.net>
Home design for organ -was-  Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION!
  by "Elders, Craig" <c.elders@tcu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  reverberation
  by "Benjamin Smedberg" <smedberg@cua.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION!
  by "Randy Newman" <rnewman@dilligaff.Rutgers.EDU>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION!
  by "F. Richard Burt" <dorian.organs@verizon.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION!
  by "Jan VanDerStad" <stugovjv@yahoo.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  reverberation
  by "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  reverberation
  by "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au>
Re: NZ vs Australia
  by <Jess4203@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] combo action pneumatic From: "Trailrider" <horseback@shell.core.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 06:36:43 -0600 (CST)       On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 Mollerpo@aol.com wrote:   > Should each piston have a contact for the pickup magnet and the > pneumatic?   There are two sets of pick magnets for the tripper action. If I remember correctly from the Moller console that I had years back, the set of pick magnets on the right hand side are for the setup combinations and the ones on the left are for setting the tripper action. The "set combination" piston must switch the commons from the comnination pick magnests to the set combination pick magnets and at the same time the "set combinations" piston disables the power pneumatic.   When the "set combination" piston is on the power pneumatic and related pick magnets will not operate. The pneumatic operates only when you are using the allready setup cominations. Setting the combinations required the "set combinations" pistons to be on, then the stops to be set up accordingly, the specific piston pushed where you want that setup to be and while you are pressing that piston you push the setter pedal down which sets up the tripper.   Gary K.    
(back) Subject: Re:[Residence organs] Small Blower From: "GLEN" <ianglen@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:28:18 -0000     Hello All,   This is my first posting to the list, although I have been learning from = you all for some time now.   Now that I have retired, I am starting a project that I started planning when I was a teenager. To build my own Chamber Organ.   In the interim period of 40+ years, I have read a lot around the subject. Now I am at the stage of collecting all the necessary bits and pieces I need to get the project = under way at last.   I have been lucky to make contact with an Organ Builder here in the U.K., John Sinclair Willis, and you can find more about him on the website of Peter Conacher & Co. = which he owns, and yes, he is directly descended from the great Father Willis. http://www.musiclink.co.uk/conacher/jsw.html   The old Peter Conacher factory building is shortly to be demolished for housing, and I was able to buy some of the redundant pipework still there, that John Willis was disposing of.   My plan is for a small 2-manual & pedal organ to fit in to our dining room at home, which will be capable of playing religious and secular music of the period around Bach & Buxtehude. The pipework will consist of:- Upper Manual. 8' Rohr Gedackt (metal) & 8' Violin Diapason (metal) both sharing a stopped wood lower octave, plus a 2' (metal) piccolo Lower Manual 8' Stopped Diapason (wood) & 8' Dulciana (metal) plus a 4' Principal = (metal) To provide the wind (I hope to run at about 3" pressure), I am buying a = new blower from Laukhuff in Germany.   And now to my query. In order to set up the pipes, last week I bought a small organ blower for =A325. This runs very quietly, and gives off a good wind. Input is axial to the motor, and output from the circumference. The guy who sold it, told me it came off a reed organ or harmonium many years ago. On the motor plate it gives the following information:- Made by H.Meidinger, Basle, Switzerland. Type CFOH 702. Machine No.V54824/3 Output 0,125 Volts 230 Amp 1,3 RPM 2850 I have contacted the firm but have not heard from them, as I would like to know the sort of pressure I could expect and what volume of air it typically shifts. Can anyone help from your experience or from the technical data above?   Regards,   Ian Glen, Birmingham, England.    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION! From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:37:29 -0500   I know if I wasn't marred I would be looking for an old church or such to purchase and live in. I would fix up the basement to live in and then have =   the organ in the sanctuary part. I suppose this could be done with other buildings also.   Eric     At 07:39 AM 1/30/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Good for you, Kurt! I've often toyed with the idea of doing exactly = that, >but as I'm retired I'm not wealthy either. You've given me a boost. >I'm just one person, but I'd say yes, you can and should stay on this = list. > After all, as you state, it won't be a public building. >Way to go! >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION! From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:59:27 -0800   Eric Sagmuller wrote: > > I know if I wasn't marred I would be looking for an old church or ...     Eric, sorry to hear that you are marred so badly that you can't find an old church or ...? ;-)   Come to think of it, I have harbored dreams of building a house in the style of a church, but it would be far easier to find an old building with the qualities I'm looking for.   Mac Hayes  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION! From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:13:46 -0500   At 10:59 AM 1/31/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Eric Sagmuller wrote: > > > > I know if I wasn't marred I would be looking for an old church or ... > > >Eric, sorry to hear that you are marred so badly that you can't find an >old church or ...? ;-)   Actually its not so bad. I do have a nice big room in the house and my = wife is quite tolerant of the organ. But I would love to have the acoustic = space of a church and can't afford that plus a house, and I know my wife = wouldn't go for living in a church basement. She wants a real house and I can't blame her. I'm the one that is odd to like the pipe organ so much. We certainly are a small group compared to the interests most others have.     >Come to think of it, I have harbored dreams of building a house in the >style of a church, but it would be far easier to find an old building >with the qualities I'm looking for.   Yes I agree. The standard way of building nowadays doesn't support the reverberant acoustics as the older buildings.     >Mac Hayes > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: reverberation From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 09:57:33 +1300   I recently bought 2nd-hand for $25 a Sansui Reverberation Amplifier = RA-500. As my organ room is acoustically dead and there is no chance whatever of getting any reverberation, I bought this amp to see if I could create any artificial reverb for the large pipe organ going in. I thought, perhaps if = I put a couple of mikes above the organ, fed that into the amp and then fed the result out through my (excellent very wide-frequency-range) hi-fi-speakers, I might get something respectable, as there is a time-control knob on the amp. If it doesn't work, I've lost only a few dollars, so it would be worth the risk. Does anyone know if this idea works? Have you heard it? What of this = Sansui amp - is it a good machine? Does the quality of the mikes make much difference? Is two enough? The organ room itself is about 45ft long and 25ft wide, with the roof = ridge lengthwise. Wall height is about 8ft at the eaves, about 13ft in the down the ridge. The organ will be taking up a space about 20ft wide by 18ft = deep. Looking forward to some utterly brilliant, wonderful, expert knowledge = that can be understood by someone who loves sound and has a keen ear but knows nothing of electronics. Regards, Ross      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] reverberation From: "F. Richard Burt" <dorian.organs@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:53:04 -0600   Ross & Lynda Wards wrote: > > I recently bought 2nd-hand for $25 a Sansui Reverberation > Amplifier RA-500. Ross, check to see if you can output to two sets of speakers. These are often called Speakers A and Speakers B, or Front and Back, ...whatever. If you can put out that sound from both the front and back of the room, the resultant perception will be just a bit out of phase by the time it travels from the back to the front. That may be just enough to enhance the effect to make it quite nice. Reverberation devices are rapidly approaching the artform stage. This is a very complex technology that is maturing for the recording industry and broadcast media. Be careful, however, do not over add the reverb'd signal. This may be one of those cases where a little is just enough. F. Richard Burt ..  
(back) Subject: Home design for organ -was- Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION! From: "Elders, Craig" <c.elders@tcu.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:57:03 -0600   Howdy to all.   When I knocked out sheetrock in my living room to place the swell shades (for the swell to speak into the living room), I thought that I would be = in this house for the rest of my life. Someday someone would carry me out first and then someone would have to worry about taking out Eleanor, my pipe organ. It was something about that night when I took the saw and started cutting out the living room wall that made me think that "this is it", I will be here forever!   But over the past couple of years, I have been thinking that I want to = move to a new location. When I built my home 15 years ago it was out of the = city - now it is in a very busy and crowded area and growing fast. So now I = want to move - close to the wonderful bike trail system that goes all over our city and closer to my work. (I could uses the exercise!) I want to find property and design my home - not try to make an existing home into a = huge organ and then try to live in it also. (Been there done that! Don't get = me wrong, I am so proud and thankful at what I have. It is beyond words the feeling to have my own pipe organ in my home. But...) I want to design my organ room and chambers and then add some bedrooms, bath and kitchen = around that. The best plans I have sketched down is really like a little chapel with the bedrooms/kitchen/baths attached. Like a high *A* frame (then I = can get that 16' reed for the Swell, that 16' reed for the pedal, a 16' diapason,...... OH -> OK, I am awake again and not dreaming!). Or = even a 2 story with the center open through both floors and rooms off to the sides.   So, I have been out looking for a place to build such. Of course, nothing available that I can afford. But someday, I hope to find *that* lot and build my home with a pipe organ in mind. (However, just the thought of taking out Eleanor and moving her and repairing my existing home, moving = all my *stuff* and installing <and enlarging her> is enough to make me just = sit down, shut up and practice some more.)   Hope everyone is having a good week and just think, tomorrow is Friday! Craig   -----Original Message----- From: Eric Sagmuller [mailto:ess4@psu.edu] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:14 PM T At 10:59 AM 1/31/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Eric Sagmuller wrote: > > > > I know if I wasn't marred I would be looking for an old church or ... > >  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] reverberation From: "Benjamin Smedberg" <smedberg@cua.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:57:53 -0500   > artificial reverb for the large pipe organ going in. I thought, perhaps = if I > put a couple of mikes above the organ, fed that into the amp and then = fed > the result out through my (excellent very wide-frequency-range) > hi-fi-speakers, I might get something respectable, as there is a > time-control knob on the amp.   Have you already got the organ voiced? Is there anything you can do to = the room (hard floor, non-plaster ceiling)? It is often possible to change = the acoustic in a room dramatically. The electronic route should really be a last resort.   Other than with really high-quality ($$$) electronics, and a very good microphone, artificial reverb will sound worse than none at all. If you want to try it anyway, get one good condenser microphone, which will need = a voltage bias (you don't need stereo mics to do reverb). Position the mic = in the room about 10-12 feet from the front of the organ, fairly close to the ceiling. Condensers have a cardoid directional pickup, so you will need = to adjust both the height of the mic and its position until you find a good spot. When looking for a mic, find one with a flat frequency response = from 32Hz to around 20Khz.   ** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ** ** Benjamin Smedberg, Director of Music ** ** St. Patrick's Church, Washington D.C. ** ** VOX 202-347-2713 x102 - FAX 202-347-1401 ** ** bdsmedberg@hotmail.com ** ** "Soli Deo Gloria" ** ** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ **      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION! From: "Randy Newman" <rnewman@dilligaff.Rutgers.EDU> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:48:24 -0500 (EST)         eric,   you stole my idea!   its really funny that you mention this cause right now i'm in the process of trying to do exactly what you describe.   i'm currently single (and probably will stay that way since my girlfriend now thinks i'm completely nuts for wanting to live in a chruch) and looking into buying a church that is forsale locally here in western NJ.     it will probably be another couple weeks before anything is definite, but if things work out i'll post back to the list with more details.     -randy               On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Eric Sagmuller wrote:   > I know if I wasn't marred I would be looking for an old church or such = to > purchase and live in. I would fix up the basement to live in and then = have > the organ in the sanctuary part. I suppose this could be done with other > buildings also. > > Eric > > > At 07:39 AM 1/30/2002 -0800, you wrote: > >Good for you, Kurt! I've often toyed with the idea of doing exactly = that, > >but as I'm retired I'm not wealthy either. You've given me a boost. > >I'm just one person, but I'd say yes, you can and should stay on this = list. > > After all, as you state, it won't be a public building. > >Way to go! > > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION! From: "F. Richard Burt" <dorian.organs@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:10:24 -0600   Randy Newman wrote: > > * * * > ...looking into buying a church that is for sale locally here > in western NJ. Randy, there is a structure on State Hwy 23 just east of Oak Ridge. I think it was once a Methodist church. I believe the church built a new meeting house and this old building is only quasi occupied. It has quite a bit of space in it for shops and living quarters, too. I peeked in the windows last summer and the main room is two stories high with bare wood floor and clean walls. There was a sign on the door indicating that someone is using it for a workshop or something similar. F. Richard Burt ..  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Not a Dilemma, a SOLUTION! From: "Jan VanDerStad" <stugovjv@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:22:20 -0800 (PST)   Hi, Randy and Dick, and interested list members   Easy for a ol' Texas boy to say <grins> but I know the very church Dick Burt is talking about as I live about about two minutes away from this very church depending on how long the traffic lights are <grins>   The church is now occupied with a new tenant- the Little Red School house Day Care center or some such thing.   Appreciatively   Jan S. Van Der Stad     --- "F. Richard Burt" <dorian.organs@verizon.net> wrote: > Randy Newman wrote: > > > > > * * * > > ...looking into buying a church that is for sale > locally here > > in western NJ. > > Randy, there is a structure on State Hwy 23 just > east of > Oak Ridge. I think it was once a Methodist church. > I believe > the church built a new meeting house and this old > building > is only quasi occupied. It has quite a bit of space > in it > for shops and living quarters, too. I peeked in the > windows > last summer and the main room is two stories high > with bare > wood floor and clean walls. There was a sign on the > door > indicating that someone is using it for a workshop > or something > similar. > > F. Richard Burt > > > . > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and > builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > > >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] reverberation From: "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:27:14 -0500   Dear lord, don=B9t do anything electronic. Coming from me, that is quite a statement!!!   Reverb on an organ is not quite perceived correctly in my opinion. You really do not need good speakers to get the reverb. You do not need flat response mics. You do not need mics with a high tonal range. If you do ge= t all perfect, high end stuff, your questionable result will sound like an allen. You need to remember rooms have character, they have dips and peaks in frequency response. They have funny things happening with TEF (time/energy/frequency). Assuming you believe in TEF measurements :-)..   I personally would try hardwood floors, wood paneling, ANYTHING to liven up the room. Take drapes down. Pull out carpet. Take out cushions on furniture. You get the idea.   My (ex?) moller sounded great in a room no bigger than you have I'm sure an= d it had carpet and drywall. Not cathedral acoustics, but if you have cathedral acoustics in a room that shouldn't have them, you wont believe it anyway...     ~jon   On 1/31/02 3:57 PM, "Benjamin Smedberg" <smedberg@cua.edu> wrote:   >> artificial reverb for the large pipe organ going in. I thought, perhaps = if > I >> put a couple of mikes above the organ, fed that into the amp and then fe= d >> the result out through my (excellent very wide-frequency-range) >> hi-fi-speakers, I might get something respectable, as there is a >> time-control knob on the amp. >=20 > Have you already got the organ voiced? Is there anything you can do to t= he > room (hard floor, non-plaster ceiling)? It is often possible to change t= he > acoustic in a room dramatically. The electronic route should really be a > last resort. >=20 > Other than with really high-quality ($$$) electronics, and a very good > microphone, artificial reverb will sound worse than none at all. If you > want to try it anyway, get one good condenser microphone, which will need= a > voltage bias (you don't need stereo mics to do reverb). Position the mic= in > the room about 10-12 feet from the front of the organ, fairly close to th= e > ceiling. Condensers have a cardoid directional pickup, so you will need = to > adjust both the height of the mic and its position until you find a good > spot. When looking for a mic, find one with a flat frequency response fr= om > 32Hz to around 20Khz. >=20 > ** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ** > ** Benjamin Smedberg, Director of Music ** > ** St. Patrick's Church, Washington D.C. ** > ** VOX 202-347-2713 x102 - FAX 202-347-1401 ** > ** bdsmedberg@hotmail.com ** > ** "Soli Deo Gloria" ** > ** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ** >=20 >=20 >=20 > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >=20 >=20    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] reverberation From: "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:36:20 +1100   Hello Ross   Ross> The organ room itself is about 45ft long and 25ft wide, with the = roof ridge Ross> lengthwise. Wall height is about 8ft at the eaves, about 13ft in the = down Ross> the ridge. The organ will be taking up a space about 20ft wide by = 18ft deep.   Ditto to the thought that artificial is unlikely to be satisfying. = And with those dimensions surely you can get some liveness in the acoustic by = care with flooring and other surfaces.   Have a look at my website and see what I did with a somewhat smaller = room - it really works well.       Regards,     Roger   Roger Brown rbrown7@bigpond.net.au http://rogerbrown.tripod.com      
(back) Subject: Re: NZ vs Australia From: <Jess4203@aol.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:01:38 EST     --part1_134.8a3ae4d.298b6d22_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Dear Ross:   I don't know how I did that . . . I do remember your posts to the lists a while back about trying to find all the things you wanted in NZ . . . = somehow I heard Christ Church or something and the vaguely British sound of that = (to me) got me confused. Very sorry, it's been a difficult week and I've not = had enough sleep. I do know the difference between NZ and Australia, but I = think they are both nice places . . .   Very Best Regards, Roy Kersey   --part1_134.8a3ae4d.298b6d22_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dear Ross: <BR> <BR>I don't know how I did that . . . I do remember your posts to the = lists a while back about trying to find all the things you wanted in NZ . = . . somehow I heard Christ Church or something and the vaguely British = sound of that (to me) got me confused. &nbsp;Very sorry, it's been a = difficult week and I've not had enough sleep. &nbsp;I do know the = difference between NZ and Australia, but I think they are both nice places = . . . <BR> <BR>Very Best Regards, <BR>Roy Kersey </FONT></HTML>   --part1_134.8a3ae4d.298b6d22_boundary--