DIYAPASON-L Digest #608 - Sunday, July 28, 2002
 
Re: Organ phenomena
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: Organ phenomena
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Organ phenomena
  by "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com>
Pouch setters
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Glue for keytops
  by "D Heimer" <dheimer@sensible.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Glue for keytops
  by "Bruce Ledet" <bruceledet@mindspring.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Organ phenomena From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 03:01:14 EDT     --part1_154.11928f41.2a74f0ba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Instead of disconnecting the rank you do not want to play, try switching from the negative on the power supply to the positive. You will then have zero potential and no chance of playing. Just a thought - anybody see a problem with it?   ~jon       Do that and every pipe in the organ will play all at once because now the "feed" which was a return puts power through all the coils in series pairs =   back to the other "return" bus. All of the organ without isolation diodes =   would be one big series/paralled circuit. The idea is to have the current =   have only one path to the "return" bus.   The old Hope-Jones design electropneumatic relays have one contact per keyboard note per stop just so the current cannot double back through all = the other magnets. Without diodes it was not unheard of to have 50,000 wires between the relay contacts and the switchboards in the larger theatre = organs just to maintain isolation.   Al Sefl   --part1_154.11928f41.2a74f0ba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Instead of disconnecting the rank you do not = want to play, try switching<BR> from the negative on the power supply to the positive.&nbsp; You will then = have<BR> zero potential and no chance of playing.&nbsp; Just a thought - anybody = see a<BR> problem with it?<BR> <BR> ~jon<BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> Do that and every pipe in the organ will play all at once because now the = "feed" which was a return puts power through all the coils in series pairs = back to the other "return" bus.&nbsp; All of the organ without isolation = diodes would be one big series/paralled circuit.&nbsp; The idea is to have = the current have only one path to the "return" bus.<BR> <BR> The old Hope-Jones design electropneumatic relays have one contact per = keyboard note per stop just so the current cannot double back through all = the other magnets.&nbsp; Without diodes it was not unheard of to have = 50,000 wires between the relay contacts and the switchboards in the larger = theatre organs just to maintain isolation.<BR> <BR> Al Sefl<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_154.11928f41.2a74f0ba_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ phenomena From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 09:12:30 -0400   To the good advice and information from Richard Scheinder and Al Sefl, I'd like to add just a word or two. I don't mean any of this to be unfriendly or unkind, but I am a bit worried that folks are hooking things up without drawing out the circuits.   Depending upon the unit's capacity, the DC power supplies (for organ magnets) might be considered small *welding* supplies. That's why the National Electric Code has a requirement for fuses in the DC circuits. You won't shock yourself on the unit's output voltage, but you can melt metal with the current that will flow through a short circuit, and melted metal is no fun.   Good diodes are a big help, and you can get the 1N4004 (or even better) from places like <www.jdr.com> for about 3 cents each. Unless your key contacts are really substantial (and almost none of them are), don't try = to operate multiple magnets from one contact, even if you use diodes to isolate the magnets and prevent "sneak" current paths. As Richard said, those little wire contacts weren't designed to handle multiple magnets = (and they probably weren't actually "designed" at all).   In fact, they'll probably burn out on their own even when operating just one little puny magnet, since even that device will produce a signficant high-voltage kickback when the contact is opened, and that causes a high temperature arcing that will erode the contact wire until it breaks off.   Use those diodes, not as isolators, but instead as suppression circuits, wiring them across the magnet coils. The diode will be in parallel with the magnet but it will be "backwards", with its bar end (cathode) pointing towards the + side of the circuit. That way, the diode will *not* conduct when the magnet is energized but *will* conduct when the magnet is de-energized. The magnet will then turn into a little generator, but the diode will short-circuit it and there will be no high-voltage jolt sent down the wires to the poor contacts. They will thank you!   Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Organ phenomena From: "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 10:40:56 -0400   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --B_3110697656_18642 Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   Duh.. That is a classic example of =3D8Cwrite the post, GET SOME SLEEP, = then proofread the idea before submitting...=3DB9   Thanks al :-) ~jon   On 7/28/02 3:01 AM, "TheGluePot@aol.com" <TheGluePot@aol.com> wrote:   > Instead of disconnecting the rank you do not want to play, try switching > from the negative on the power supply to the positive. You will then = hav=3D e > zero potential and no chance of playing. Just a thought - anybody see a > problem with it? >=3D20 > ~jon >=3D20 >=3D20 >=3D20 > Do that and every pipe in the organ will play all at once because now = the > "feed" which was a return puts power through all the coils in series = pair=3D s > back to the other "return" bus. All of the organ without isolation = diode=3D s > would be one big series/paralled circuit. The idea is to have the = curren=3D t > have only one path to the "return" bus. >=3D20 > The old Hope-Jones design electropneumatic relays have one contact per > keyboard note per stop just so the current cannot double back through = all=3D the > other magnets. Without diodes it was not unheard of to have 50,000 = wires > between the relay contacts and the switchboards in the larger theatre = org=3D ans > just to maintain isolation. >=3D20 > Al Sefl >=3D20 >=3D20     --B_3110697656_18642 Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: [Residence Organs] &nbsp;Re: Organ phenomena</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D3D"Verdana">Duh.. That is a classic example of &#8216;write = the po=3D st, GET SOME SLEEP, then proofread the idea before = submitting...&#8217;<BR> <BR> Thanks al :-)<BR> ~jon<BR> <BR> On 7/28/02 3:01 AM, &quot;TheGluePot@aol.com&quot; = &lt;TheGluePot@aol.com&g=3D t; wrote:<BR> <BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D3D"Arial">Instead of = disconnecti=3D ng the rank you do not want to play, try switching<BR> from the negative on the power supply to the positive. &nbsp;You will then = =3D have<BR> zero potential and no chance of playing. &nbsp;Just a thought - anybody = see=3D a<BR> problem with it?<BR> <BR> ~jon<BR> <BR> </FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D3D"Verdana"><BR> <BR> Do that and every pipe in the organ will play all at once because now the = &=3D quot;feed&quot; which was a return puts power through all the coils in = serie=3D s pairs back to the other &quot;return&quot; bus. &nbsp;All of the organ = wit=3D hout isolation diodes would be one big series/paralled circuit. &nbsp;The = id=3D ea is to have the current have only one path to the &quot;return&quot; = bus.<=3D BR> <BR> The old Hope-Jones design electropneumatic relays have one contact per = keyb=3D oard note per stop just so the current cannot double back through all the = ot=3D her magnets. &nbsp;Without diodes it was not unheard of to have 50,000 = wires=3D between the relay contacts and the switchboards in the larger theatre = organ=3D s just to maintain isolation.<BR> <BR> Al Sefl<BR> <BR> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D3D"Verdana"><BR> </FONT> </BODY> </HTML>     --B_3110697656_18642--    
(back) Subject: Pouch setters From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:25:06 -0500     "Robert W. Taylor" wrote: > I am confronted with over 2,500 pouches to reinstall for just > the pipe pallet valves. These pouches range in size from about 1 3/4 > inches to 3 1/2 inches. I am an experienced player piano rebuilder, and > have installed thousands of pouches, in vacuum systems. I know how to = get > the perfect dip into the pouch well on those systems. But on this = organ, > the existing pouches have an excess amount of dip--more than what the = pouch > well will hold. In other words, the inflated pouch extends above the = pouch > board far beyond the depth of the well.   Normally, Pouch "dish" is set with a jig made for the purpose. Pouches don't need to travel very far, necessarily, in order to work properly. Usually, there are "standoffs" which space the Pouchboard from the underside of the Toeboard, and all that is required is that there be a little compression beyond that when the valve is closed.   Envisioning that this Pouchboard has springs (which should be replaced as part of any responsible Re-leathering Project), then the "dip" is set by making a vertical dowel attached to a stand that is the appropriate diameter and height which is then inserted into the Pouch Spring Hole. The Valve/Pouch assembly is then placed on top of that stand, since the felt ring then serves as a guide to center the Valve/Pouch Assembly over the hole.   This is true for Skinner/Casavant Style actions, and there are several variants which require slightly different jigging arrangements, but this should give a general idea of how it is done. And above all else: use hot Hide Glue and AVOID FISH GLUE AT ALL COSTS!!!!   Faithfully,   -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL    
(back) Subject: Glue for keytops From: "D Heimer" <dheimer@sensible.net> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:02:05 -0400   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0009_01C23671.A5B370C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Yo' Guys, I'm open for suggestions on the proper glue and procedure for = =3D re-gluing ivory keytops. I have tried hideglue and the white stuff that = =3D APSCO sells. We live on a lake and the organ in in the basement, so =3D there is a humidity issue. L8TER, Dave Heimer       Dave Heimer 2160 Armor Bridge Rd Greensboro Georgia 30642 706-467-3926 - Home 706-343-0033 - Office dheimer@sensible.net - email www.heimer.siteblast.com - website   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0009_01C23671.A5B370C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.100" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Yo' Guys,&nbsp; I'm open for =3D suggestions on the=3D20 proper glue and procedure for re-gluing ivory keytops.&nbsp; I have =3D tried=3D20 hideglue and the white stuff that APSCO sells.&nbsp; We live on a lake =3D and the=3D20 organ in in the basement, so there is a humidity issue.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; L8TER, Dave Heimer</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=3D20 size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= =3D p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 Dave=3D20 Heimer<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb= =3D sp;&nbsp;=3D20 2160 Armor Bridge Rd<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = =3D   Greensboro Georgia 30642<BR>706-467-3926 - Home&nbsp;&nbsp; 706-343-0033 = =3D -=3D20 Office<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:dheimer@sensible.net">dheimer@sensible.net</A> -=3D20 email<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=3D20 href=3D3D"http://www.heimer.siteblast.com">www.heimer.siteblast.com</A> = -=3D20 website</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0009_01C23671.A5B370C0--    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Glue for keytops From: "Bruce Ledet" <bruceledet@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:23:38 -0400   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0001_01C23674.ABCDE960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   International Piano Supply at http://www.pianoparts.com <http://www.pianoparts.com/> has special ivory key top cement. I have used it to replace a number of ivory keys on my Victorian piano. There are special key top clamps. But I have just used a thick block of wood the width if a piano key and two spring clamps. Make sure ALL the old glue is scraped off the top of the key and the bottom the replacement piece. Ivory keys are in two parts, so make sure that the seam between the two parts is tight and that the replacement piece is properly aligned ( that's the hardest part ).     -Bruce   bruceledet@mindspring.com         -----Original Message----- From: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of D Heimer Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 8:02 PM To: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Subject: [Residence Organs] Glue for keytops     Yo' Guys, I'm open for suggestions on the proper glue and procedure for re-gluing ivory keytops. I have tried hideglue and the white stuff that APSCO sells. We live on a lake and the organ in in the basement, so there is a humidity issue.   L8TER, Dave Heimer         Dave Heimer 2160 Armor Bridge Rd Greensboro Georgia 30642 706-467-3926 - Home 706-343-0033 - Office dheimer@sensible.net - email www.heimer.siteblast.com - website     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0001_01C23674.ABCDE960 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html>   <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii">     <meta name=3D3DGenerator content=3D3D"Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">   <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style>   </head>   <body bgcolor=3D3Dwhite lang=3D3DEN-US link=3D3Dblue vlink=3D3Dblue>   <div class=3D3DSection1>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy = face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>International Piano Supply at <a href=3D3D"http://www.pianoparts.com/">http://www.pianoparts.com</a> =3D &nbsp;has special ivory key top cement.&nbsp; I have used it to replace a number =3D of ivory keys on my Victorian piano.&nbsp; There are special key top =3D clamps.&nbsp; But I have just used a thick block of wood the width if a piano key and two =3D spring clamps.&nbsp; Make sure ALL the old glue is scraped off the top of the =3D key and the bottom the replacement piece. &nbsp;Ivory keys are in two parts, so = =3D make sure that the seam between the two parts is tight and that the replacement =3D piece is properly aligned ( that&#8217;s the hardest part ). </span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy = face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy = face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>-Bruce</span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy = face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a =3D href=3D3D"mailto:bruceledet@mindspring.com">bruceledet@mindspring.com</a></= =3D span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy = face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy = face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   <div style=3D3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in = =3D 0in 4.0pt'>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3DTahoma><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =3D DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org] <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>On = =3D Behalf Of </span></b>D Heimer<br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, July 28, = =3D 2002 8:02 PM<br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =3D DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org<br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Residence =3D Organs] Glue for keytops</span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span = =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   <div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Yo' Guys,&nbsp; I'm open for suggestions on the =3D proper glue and procedure for re-gluing ivory keytops.&nbsp; I have tried hideglue =3D and the white stuff that APSCO sells.&nbsp; We live on a lake and the organ in =3D in the basement, so there is a humidity issue.</span></font></p>   </div>   <div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; L8TER, Dave Heimer</span></font></p>   </div>   <div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span = =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   </div>   <div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span = =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   </div>   <div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span = =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   </div>   <div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= =3D &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dave Heimer<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = =3D 2160 Armor Bridge Rd<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greensboro Georgia =3D 30642<br> 706-467-3926 - Home&nbsp;&nbsp; 706-343-0033 - Office<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =3D href=3D3D"mailto:dheimer@sensible.net">dheimer@sensible.net</a> - email<br> &nbsp;&nbsp; <a =3D href=3D3D"http://www.heimer.siteblast.com">www.heimer.siteblast.com</a> - website</span></font></p>   </div>   </div>   </div>   </body>   </html>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0001_01C23674.ABCDE960--