DIYAPASON-L Digest #684 - Friday, November 15, 2002
 
Re: Fan Puller
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Fan Puller
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Organ Project
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Spencer Blowers
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Spencer Blowers
  by "Gregory Rister" <grandcornet@earthlink.net>
Spencer Orgoblos by any other name...
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
RE: [Residence Organs] pedal contact board
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
toeboards
  by "Harold Chase" <wa1vvh@net1plus.com>
RE: [Residence Organs] pedal contact board
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Fan Puller From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:07:30 EST   Since you are dealing with a balanced (hopefully) large mechanism having=20 extreme levels of rotational momentum, the first thing you want to do before= =20 taking it apart is to mark the exact position of each fan in relationship to= =20 the shaft. I use a diamond tipped scribe point to make very tiny lines so=20 that during reassembly it all comes back to the starting point where it was=20 dynamically balanced at the factory. If a previous repair person has moved=20 anything, all bets are off.   The usual cause of a recalcitrant fan being stuck to the shaft is either rus= t=20 or dried grease/oil. Many cheap oils (like 3-in-1) will eventually dry out=20 and leave a solid almost superglue like petroleum residue. It is common for= =20 the fan nearest the motor to get the oil via surface traveling capillary=20 action of the oil or splash from the motor. Do as John Haskey suggested and= =20 apply a solvent oil like Kroil with a fair amount of time allowed for it to=20 sink in and penetrate. I like to turn the fan hub with the open set screw=20 hole upward and fill the hole with solvent oil for a period of time so it ca= n=20 do its job. Then too a heat gun may sometimes be used effectively to loosen= =20 the grip on shaft.   I also use a counterintuitive move of taking a wooden stake, holding it on=20 the hub shoulder next to the shaft, and striking it with a good sized mallet= ..=20 This lets you free the stuck fan hub from the shaft without putting any=20 force on the fan. The reason is that one thing to be avoided is pulling on=20 the fan perimeter. A distorted fan can cause all kinds of problems from win= d=20 rumble to blower vibration. By driving the hub inward with a piece of wood=20 that will not mar the steel you have loosened the hub which should then be=20 easy to slide off the shaft. Other tricks like putting an old tire innertub= e=20 between the hub center and the back plate then inflating it a bit to push ou= t=20 on the hub is sometimes needed. The only catch here is positioning the=20 innertube so that none of the sheet steel has pressure on it. All of this i= s=20 done through the exhaust port and you end up feeling more like a surgeon tha= n=20 a mechanic. Next stop brain surgery...   While you are in the blower housing it is always a good idea to go beyond th= e=20 cleaning and new paint with a few more small details. A new leather gasket=20 on the shaft to seal the wind in is always a positive move. Fans should be=20 checked for static balance and any lost balancing weights means some work=20 will be needed in that area. Rust is a sign that may be the portent of a fa= n=20 blade that will come off with disturbing consequences at a later time. Chec= k=20 all the rivets to be sure every fan blade is firmly attached without any=20 mechanical play.   I just realized I'm rambling on and on. I'll stop now.   Al Sefl Unbalanced old geezer... Who can only walk in a straight line if it is toward a restroom...     And who would like to have been the fan puller for Sally Rand... Boy does that tell his age...               =A9reserved - 2002 -  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Fan Puller From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:11:43 EST     --part1_71.28eb79ce.2b064c8f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 11/15/2002 3:08:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, TheGluePot@aol.com writes:     > the first thing you want to do before taking it apart is to mark the = exact > position of each fan in relationship to the shaft.   Thanks, Al. In fact, there's a plate on the outside of the housing that states to make certain that the arrow on the fan exactly matches the = scribed line on the shaft and to tighten the bolts holding the fan to the shaft = very tightly. The first fan had the arrow about 1mm off from the line. For = the inner fan, the ingraved arrow, or "V", on the hub is nowhere near the = line, but I do notice another deep line on the hub that IS lined up with the = line on the shaft.   I plan to clean up the inside and paint it glossy as well - thinking that glossy paint would provide less resistance. There is a felt gasket around =   the rim of the panel I removed to get inside as well as one around the = edge of the inner baffle. I would plan on replacing them.   Keith   --part1_71.28eb79ce.2b064c8f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 11/15/2002 3:08:31 AM Eastern = Standard Time, TheGluePot@aol.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">the first thing = you want to do before taking it apart is to mark the exact position of = each fan in relationship to the shaft.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> Thanks, Al.&nbsp; In fact, there's a plate on the outside of the housing = that states to make certain that the arrow on the fan exactly matches the = scribed line on the shaft and to tighten the bolts holding the fan to the = shaft very tightly.&nbsp; The first fan had the arrow about 1mm off from = the line.&nbsp; For the inner fan, the ingraved arrow, or "V", on the hub = is nowhere near the line, but I do notice another deep line on the hub = that IS lined up with the line on the shaft.<BR> <BR> I plan to clean up the inside and paint it glossy as well - thinking that = glossy paint would provide less resistance.&nbsp; There is a felt gasket = around the rim of the panel I removed to get inside as well as one around = the edge of the inner baffle.&nbsp; I would plan on replacing them.<BR> <BR> Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_71.28eb79ce.2b064c8f_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Organ Project From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:14:00 EST     --part1_54.24bd58c.2b064d18_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I guess all you have to do is play with your organ just a little to get yourself all excited and want to get into it even more. The organ has sat = in the corner since I moved it home. I did get curious shortly enough after = the move that I took the bottom boards off the 3 rank pitman chest and even removed the pipe valve rails to inspect them and become familiar with the action. The pouches look good. After getting started taking down the = blower yesterday evening, I got the sudden feeling that this project was going to = be a series of bites that, if taken one at a time, makes the project seem surmountable after all.   I'm a little more motivated now to get my area cleaned up so I can really = get going. I hope to get some pictures taken. I hope to get a website some = time on which to post the pictures - since I enjoy looking at others' projects = as well.   Gotta go to my day job now. Keith   --part1_54.24bd58c.2b064d18_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I guess all you have to do is play with your = organ just a little to get yourself all excited and want to get into it = even more.&nbsp; The organ has sat in the corner since I moved it = home.&nbsp; I did get curious shortly enough after the move that I took = the bottom boards off the 3 rank pitman chest and even removed the pipe = valve rails to inspect them and become familiar with the action.&nbsp; The = pouches look good.&nbsp; After getting started taking down the blower = yesterday evening, I got the sudden feeling that this project was going to = be a series of bites that, if taken one at a time, makes the project seem = surmountable after all.<BR> <BR> I'm a little more motivated now to get my area cleaned up so I can really = get going.&nbsp; I hope to get some pictures taken.&nbsp; I hope to get a = website some time on which to post the pictures - since I enjoy looking at = others' projects as well.<BR> <BR> Gotta go to my day job now.<BR> Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_54.24bd58c.2b064d18_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Spencer Blowers From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:57:45 -0600   On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:07:22> Bill Hewitson - wurlic1 <wurlic1@lara.on.ca> wrote:   > Keith: > I moved a 5hp Spencer (probably one of the last built. . .<snip>   Just so we're clear on this: Spencer continues to build blowers to this day. They just decided that due to the "troublesome" nature of organbuilding customers ("bitching", frequently chronically late payments, etc., etc.), coupled with the unprofitability and comparatively low and ever-declining demand for the products of the Organ Power Department when high pressure work reached its nadir, they made a corporate decision that their corporate efforts were better expended in the "real world" sector and therefore closed and scrapped-out the Organ Power Department years ago. This is in spite of the fact that building organ blowers was exactly the reason that they were founded for in the first place!   Practitioners organic tend to be an esoteric, unbalanced group of people to deal with, when compared to a wider cross-section of the population. Couple this with a marketing environment whereby any organs which utilized windpressures above flautulance pressure were considered a travesty, the demand for blowers was at such an all-time-low that maintaining a staff of employees at the real-world pay rates that it takes to live on the east coast surely translated into Organ Power being a major "loser" for Spencer.   If I were a shrewd business man, I would have done exactly the same thing if I was running Spencer Turbine. However, the very fact that I willingly remain in a business where losing money hand over fist is practically a pre-requisite to being in it certainly explodes any potential theory of my being one.   Putting all of those skeletons back into the closet for a moment, it was indeed a tragic loss to the Industry that these blowing plants are no longer being manufactured, now that the demand for the product has once again resumed. Nowadays, Spencer blowers become eagerly sought after and highly prized trophies for those whose work require blowers to supply organs which speak on saner windpressures and either don't care to purchase the domestic Lansing, MI product (not naming any names!) or wish to go through the hassles of importing the German product (which have practical size limits anyway.)   A recent visit to a major modern Cathedral as part of an American Institute of Organbuilders' convention witnessed a blowing plant installation which utilized two identical German-built products feeding a plenum, but one working obviously much harder than the other due to it being so much warmer; which, in turn, fed a re-cycled Spencer Turbine blower to "step-up" the German blowers' collective Static Pressure for the high pressure work. Let me suffex those remarks by stating that no fault-finding here is intended! I'm sure that, given what is available, compared to the windpressure/CFM requiremnts of this instrument, that was most likely the best solution available to the situation at hand.   If Spencer were still in existance, surely they could/would have designed a single machine capable of supplying the entire requirement of that instrument, and could have easily provided the two outlet pressures the instrument utilizes.   This is, of course, all pure speculation, but it's interesting to consider what the possibilites might have been if we hadn't been such a deluded, cantankerous bunch and the excesses of the Orgelbauwewewewewe (stop it, Max!)gung Movement hadn't caused sane organbuilding on realistic windpressures and consequently, the need for the Spencer product to "go south".   And since I happen to be one of those aforementioned people who "cut my teeth" on Schlicker organs in the middle of all of this Orgelbauwewe. . .. (let's not get started again, Max!), I can get away with saying all that! So there!! ;-)   Faithfully,   G.A.   (Who is feeling particularly cantankerous himself today after battling with this damned cold for the past week with no signs of abatement in sight!)   -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Spencer Blowers From: "Gregory Rister" <grandcornet@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 9:7:9 -0800   Hi Richard,   Hope your cold is better (well, I mean I hope the cold germs are worse and YOU'RE better). I thought I'd add one comment to your exposition = regarding Spencer blowers. Although their Organ Power Division has been defunct for all these many years for exactly the reasons you state, should one desire to buy an organ blower from Spencer, they will build it. They can build you a custom Spencer Orgo-Blast, to your specs (in consultation with them, of course) albeit probably for a custom price, since quantity production = of these things is no longer a factor.   I saw a "new" Spencer of about 3hp fairly recently out here in So Cal; quite a familiar appearance, and very much Spencer. The owner told me = what he had paid for it, and although I don't remember the figure exactly, it was well in line with what you migt pay for any other number of blowers in that size. I'll bet the freight charge was hefty; they're still big. . .   Greg Rister The Pipe Organ Craftsmen Pomona, California     > [Original Message] > From: Richard Schneider <arpschneider@starband.net> > To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> > Date: 11/15/2002 5:57:45 AM > Subject: [Residence Organs] Spencer Blowers > > Just so we're clear on this: Spencer continues to build blowers to this > day. They just decided that due to the "troublesome" nature of > organbuilding customers ("bitching", frequently chronically late > payments, etc., etc.), coupled with the unprofitability and > comparatively low and ever-declining demand for the products of the > Organ Power Department when high pressure work reached its nadir, they > made a corporate decision that their corporate efforts were better > expended in the "real world" sector and therefore closed and > scrapped-out the Organ Power Department years ago. This is in spite of > the fact that building organ blowers was exactly the reason that they > were founded for in the first place! > >   --- Gregory Rister --- grandcornet@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.      
(back) Subject: Spencer Orgoblos by any other name... From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:21:58 EST   Imagine my surprise when taking a tour of one of Chevron's large product tankers in the San Francisco Bay to see two 40 HP Spencer blowers = providing high pressure high volume wind for purging the oil product tanks. Only = when I realized that NORCAL ATOS theatre organ crew chief Bill Schlotter was = one of the designers of the ship that it all made sense. Spencer may have dropped the organ blowing department but they still build blowers and will =   build a new one for your pipe organ to your specifications, they just = won't call it an Orgoblo!   Al Sefl Who can produce more wind than any Spencer...  
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] pedal contact board From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:35:04 -0600       In the process of moving the 3M/19 rank organ I recently acquired, the = pedal contact board was damaged. The little contact wires got all bent up = at crazy angles. I spent several hours straightening them with some needle = nose pliers,( an exercise in futility) but a lot of them just will not = straighten out. I have noticed that OSI sells the individual contact = boards, so I have toyed with the thought of replacing the worst ones, but = I have noticed that mine are glued on pretty darn good. Is it possible to = get them off without creating more damage? If so, how do I get them off? = Would anyone recommend replacing the whole contact board?   thanks in advance   no website yet, but planning one   Steve Pitts Ardmore, Tennessee  
(back) Subject: toeboards From: "Harold Chase" <wa1vvh@net1plus.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:19:27 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0075_01C28CB2.0151CA80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I am starting to build a direct electric chest for my first rank of =3D pipes, and I would like to know the techniques to ensure a good seal of = =3D the pipe toes into the toeholes. Is leather, or felt, etc used in =3D the holes for a good snug fit? Also, what should I be =3D aware of regarding the valve seating? I saw a part of a direct =3D electric chest on EBAY where the magnets were each mounted on a small =3D box which is then mounted onto the toeboard. Is this done to =3D increase the length of the toehole for a better seal? =3D This is my first foray into organbuilding, so any advice will be =3D appreciated!     Harry Chase         ------=3D_NextPart_000_0075_01C28CB2.0151CA80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I am starting to build a direct =3D electric chest for=3D20 my first rank of pipes,&nbsp; and I would like to know the techniques to = =3D ensure=3D20 a good seal of the pipe toes into the toeholes.&nbsp;&nbsp; Is leather, = =3D or felt,=3D20 etc&nbsp; used in the holes for a good snug=3D20 fit?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb= =3D sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 &nbsp;Also,&nbsp;&nbsp;what should I be aware of regarding the valve=3D20 seating?&nbsp;&nbsp; I saw a part of a direct electric chest on EBAY =3D where the=3D20 magnets were each mounted on a small box which is then mounted onto = the=3D20 toeboard.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is this done to =3D increase the=3D20 length of the toehole for a better=3D20 seal?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= =3D bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 This is my first foray into organbuilding, so any advice will be=3D20 appreciated!</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Harry Chase</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0075_01C28CB2.0151CA80--    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] pedal contact board From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:17:17 -0600   Steve -- just take a chisel (hammer, screwdriver, channellock pliers, or whatever works) and break the old contact block free from the rail. The block should be glued to the rail with hide glue, and since the 'glue = side' of the contact block is a series of thin edges instead of a solid surface (you'll understand when it comes off), it'll likely pop right off, for the =   most part. Many times such blocks are glued with a piece of paper in the glue joint (like little leather pneumatics) to facilitate their easy removal. -->>They're meant to be 'broken off' to replace.<<-- Even if = you destroy the old block in the process (mebbe you won't if you're really really careful) you were gonna replace it anyway, so what...?!) There should be no chance of damaging the rail itself.   When straightening pedal contacts, remember that the individual contact wires are (or should be, anyway!) sprung to give motion in an up/down direction, with little chance for movement side to side. (This is so the "wiper" on the pedal key will scrape the surface of the contact wire laterally during its normal motion -- "self-cleaning" as it were) Look closely, find the spot where the contact wire is actually bent, and straighten it there with itself. Side to side bends are easy to fix -- up/down bends need a bit more attention to get right.   One other good thing to remember: pedal contacts are *not* rocket-science...<g>... if it's anywhere close to "perfect", it's prolly good enough for the job...! ;-)   Hope this is a little help --   Tim   PS -- I vote 'no' for replacing the whole thing, unless its *really* trashed -- thatsa lotta little wires to deal with! <g>)     At 12:35 PM 11/15/2002 -0600, Steve wrote: >In the process of moving the 3M/19 rank organ I recently acquired, the >pedal contact board was damaged. The little contact wires got all bent up =   >at crazy angles. I spent several hours straightening them with some = needle >nose pliers,( an exercise in futility) but a lot of them just will not >straighten out. I have noticed that OSI sells the individual contact >boards, so I have toyed with the thought of replacing the worst ones, but =   >I have noticed that mine are glued on pretty darn good. Is it possible to =   >get them off without creating more damage? If so, how do I get them off? >Would anyone recommend replacing the whole contact board?