DIYAPASON-L Digest #689 - Wednesday, November 20, 2002
 
[Residence Organs]  Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Blower Arrives
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Load down discussion
  by "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Load down discussion
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02
  by "Harold Chase" <wa1vvh@net1plus.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02
  by "Jane and Dave Whitmore" <JDWhitmore@worldnet.att.net>
Re: OrganCad
  by <Jess4203@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02
  by "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com>
Re: OrganCad
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
 

(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02 From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:04:56 -0800   >Steve, >There is a simple solution to your problem. I have built many power = supplies >including >the one I use on my own organ. Whats happening is the capacitor is = charging >to the >peak voltage it sees when there is no load on it. A 12 volt supply means >12volts RMS, >however the peak voltage is actually a little over 16 volts. >The solution is to add a wirewound resistor across the capacitor, I = suggest >approx 10ohms >and rated at about 20watts. This should drop your peak voltage back into = the >12-13 volt range. >Hope this helps....   While this may help it will also require a very large resistor like about 160 (or 200 to be safe) WATTS resistor to dissipate the heat. To get an idea light three 60 watt lightbulbs and feel the heat!... so unless you can find a way to disspate that much heat after finding a resistor that large in wattage, you're also cutting back the available power on your supply to where there may not be enough left to run your organ.   an easy and much safer way is to calculate your current requirements and use a voltage regulator Integrated Circuit on a heat sink. those (in the TO 3 case) can handle up to 10 amperes , so you may have to split your requirements in to several branches not to exceed 10 amps. They need about 16 volts in to get 12 out. Much safer and a much more stable voltage.   John V  
(back) Subject: Blower Arrives From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:25:47 -0600   Hurrah! My blower arrived yesterday..........a Spencer Orgoblo that came out of a church; I purchased it used, and it's now resting peacefully in storage by my used console.   Dennis Steckley   Ich liebe meine Katzen        
(back) Subject: Load down discussion From: "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:37:37 -0500   On 11/20/02 11:04 AM, "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> wrote:   >> Steve, >> There is a simple solution to your problem. I have built many power = supplies >> including >> the one I use on my own organ. Whats happening is the capacitor is = charging >> to the >> peak voltage it sees when there is no load on it. A 12 volt supply = means >> 12volts RMS, >> however the peak voltage is actually a little over 16 volts. >> The solution is to add a wirewound resistor across the capacitor, I = suggest >> approx 10ohms >> and rated at about 20watts. This should drop your peak voltage back = into the >> 12-13 volt range. >> Hope this helps.... > > While this may help it will also require a very large resistor like > about 160 (or 200 to be safe) WATTS resistor to dissipate the heat. > To get an idea light three 60 watt lightbulbs and feel the heat!... > so unless you can find a way to disspate that much heat after finding > a resistor that large in wattage, you're also cutting back the > available power on your supply to where there may not be enough left > to run your organ.   I disagree. Once the resistor is in place, the voltage will be a constant 12 volts. Simple ohms law tells you that 1.2 amps will flow given 10 = ohms. This is only 15 watts of heat the resistor will be emitting, a part rated = 20 should be fine. > an easy and much safer way is to calculate your current requirements > and use a voltage regulator Integrated Circuit on a heat sink. those > (in the TO 3 case) can handle up to 10 amperes , so you may have to > split your requirements in to several branches not to exceed 10 amps. > They need about 16 volts in to get 12 out. > Much safer and a much more stable voltage.   We have already established that once that power supply gets loaded down, the voltage will drop to the proper readout. Its probably just reading = high because of a lack of load. The integrated circuit will not survive being hooked up incorrectly, the resistor cannot be connected backwards. The integrated circuit will do him an injustice if he pulls more than 10 amps. The resistor will not. I personally would stick to the resistor for long term reliability.   ~jon    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Load down discussion From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:53:16 -0600       thanks for the info.   This list is an excellent resource for a beginner like me.I have taken the = case off and inspected the circuit assembly. There is a very large high = wattage resistor in parallel with the filter capacitor. Maybe the resistor = has gone bad.....that would allow the filter cap voltage to go up. I think either the supply is defective or I have connected the ac input to the = wrong taps as was suggested in an earlier post, but this will need further = inspection to determine. The most important thing seems to be the = consensus that 15 to 16 volts is a little high, so I am going to try to = correct the problem before extended use of the console. I am an electronics = professional, so I can build my own supply to whatever specs I want = (within reason) but , I have two of the Elgin 20 amp 110/220v supplies, so = I thought I would use them. One for the console and one for the relay. = These are fairly low-tech. The only solid state devices they have are big diodes which = means less to fail.   Steve Pitts Largest residence organ in Ardmore Tennessee   ( that's because its the only residence organ in Ardmore TN)   -----Original Message----- From: Jon [mailto:sparky@CEINetworks.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:38 PM To: Residence Organ List Subject: [Residence Organs] Load down discussion     On 11/20/02 11:04 AM, "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> wrote:   >> Steve, >> There is a simple solution to your problem. I have built many power = supplies >> including >> the one I use on my own organ. Whats happening is the capacitor is = charging >> to the >> peak voltage it sees when there is no load on it. A 12 volt supply = means >> 12volts RMS, >> however the peak voltage is actually a little over 16 volts. >> The solution is to add a wirewound resistor across the capacitor, I = suggest >> approx 10ohms >> and rated at about 20watts. This should drop your peak voltage back = into the >> 12-13 volt range. >> Hope this helps.... > > While this may help it will also require a very large resistor like > about 160 (or 200 to be safe) WATTS resistor to dissipate the heat. > To get an idea light three 60 watt lightbulbs and feel the heat!... > so unless you can find a way to disspate that much heat after finding > a resistor that large in wattage, you're also cutting back the > available power on your supply to where there may not be enough left > to run your organ.   I disagree. Once the resistor is in place, the voltage will be a constant 12 volts. Simple ohms law tells you that 1.2 amps will flow given 10 = ohms. This is only 15 watts of heat the resistor will be emitting, a part rated = 20 should be fine. > an easy and much safer way is to calculate your current requirements > and use a voltage regulator Integrated Circuit on a heat sink. those > (in the TO 3 case) can handle up to 10 amperes , so you may have to > split your requirements in to several branches not to exceed 10 amps. > They need about 16 volts in to get 12 out. > Much safer and a much more stable voltage.   We have already established that once that power supply gets loaded down, the voltage will drop to the proper readout. Its probably just reading = high because of a lack of load. The integrated circuit will not survive being hooked up incorrectly, the resistor cannot be connected backwards. The integrated circuit will do him an injustice if he pulls more than 10 amps. The resistor will not. I personally would stick to the resistor for long term reliability.   ~jon     DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02 From: "Harold Chase" <wa1vvh@net1plus.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:40:31 -0500   I have been following the power supply discussion, and I wonder if = anyone has looked at the ASTRON regulated power supplies? They are available = at electronics and Ham radio stores and from similar websites ( Try aesham.com, and hamradio.com) . These are available in various sizes = up to 50 amperes, and they have excellent regulation at 13.8 volts internally adjustable from about 12 to 14V) with stability that is = usually within 100 milllivolts from no load up to full rating.   I have several of these supplies, some are 15 years old and they just = keep on purring, even in continuous duty in radio transmitter setups. I think this could be an ideal solution for an organ power supply. BTW, they are not too expensive; around $150 to 200 for the big ones, last I checked.         Harry Chase         ..   ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vanderlee <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 11:04 AM Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02     > >Steve, > >There is a simple solution to your problem. I have built many power supplies > >including > >the one I use on my own organ. Whats happening is the capacitor is charging > >to the > >peak voltage it sees when there is no load on it. A 12 volt supply = means > >12volts RMS, > >however the peak voltage is actually a little over 16 volts. > >The solution is to add a wirewound resistor across the capacitor, I suggest > >approx 10ohms > >and rated at about 20watts. This should drop your peak voltage back = into the > >12-13 volt range. > >Hope this helps.... > > While this may help it will also require a very large resistor like > about 160 (or 200 to be safe) WATTS resistor to dissipate the heat. > To get an idea light three 60 watt lightbulbs and feel the heat!... > so unless you can find a way to disspate that much heat after finding > a resistor that large in wattage, you're also cutting back the > available power on your supply to where there may not be enough left > to run your organ. > > an easy and much safer way is to calculate your current requirements > and use a voltage regulator Integrated Circuit on a heat sink. those > (in the TO 3 case) can handle up to 10 amperes , so you may have to > split your requirements in to several branches not to exceed 10 amps. > They need about 16 volts in to get 12 out. > Much safer and a much more stable voltage. > > John V > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02 From: "Jane and Dave Whitmore" <JDWhitmore@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:55:53 -0500   At 06:40 PM 11/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Harold Chase" <wa1vvh@net1plus.com> >To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >References: > ><200211190530.gAJ5U3Yl028147@mail.nexicom.net><000401c29030$04888140$436aa= 8 >d8@mtgo5c3ntfvs33> <p05100300ba0160f5e484@[143.229.45.33]> >Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02 >Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:40:31 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >Reply-To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >Sender: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> >Precedence: Bulk > >I have been following the power supply discussion, and I wonder if = anyone >has looked at the ASTRON regulated power supplies?     I'm running a 30 amp Astron on my 2/5 Wicks and it does a fine job! (Much better than the old Orglectra selenium rectifier that came with the = beast). I got mine at a hamfest for about $75. Try www.aesham.com for good prices.   Dave in Vermont (N1CPP)      
(back) Subject: Re: OrganCad From: <Jess4203@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:28:56 EST     --part1_1e.2ad3769.2b0d9ee8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Dear Nemesio,   I believe what you're seeking is a copy of OrganCad, a special CAD = based program for drafting organ drawings. Allan Ontko used to sell it, I = think, but I can't find any mention if it on his recently updated website at present. If you don't get a better answer than this, I'd suggest you go = the the Ontko Organs website and email him from there. Surely he knows what = has become of OrganCAD. The website is:   http://www.ontkopipeorgans.com/content_supply_main.html   HTH, and let the list know what you find out, maybe others would be interested.   Regards, Roy Kersey   --part1_1e.2ad3769.2b0d9ee8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dear Nemesio, <BR> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I believe what you're seeking is a copy of = OrganCad, a special CAD based program for drafting organ drawings. = &nbsp;Allan Ontko used to sell it, I think, but I can't find any mention = if it on his recently updated website at present. &nbsp;If you don't get a = better answer than this, I'd suggest you go the the Ontko Organs website = and email him from there. &nbsp;Surely he knows what has become of = OrganCAD. &nbsp;The website is: <BR> <BR> = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb= sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb= sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb= sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;http://www.ontkopipeorga= ns.com/content_supply_main.html <BR> <BR>HTH, and let the list know what you find out, maybe others would be = interested. <BR> <BR>Regards, <BR>Roy Kersey</FONT></HTML>   --part1_1e.2ad3769.2b0d9ee8_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02 From: "Jon" <sparky@CEINetworks.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:48:55 -0500   MANY people choose to use Astron products. Most new organs have them as standard. They can be safely paralleled to ensure proper voltage = regulation and have short circuit protection built in to them. Their regulation is a very simple circuit, with little to go wrong. Just make sure you buy one that is big enough (for example the 50 amp astron only puts out 37 amps continuous). Its also worth noting that their output is usually very = clean and free of ripple, which makes the integration of electronics into the = mix of console toys a bit more reliable and feasible.   ~jon   On 11/20/02 6:40 PM, "Harold Chase" <wa1vvh@net1plus.com> wrote:   > I have been following the power supply discussion, and I wonder if = anyone > has looked at the ASTRON regulated power supplies? They are available = at > electronics and Ham radio stores and from similar websites ( Try > aesham.com, and hamradio.com) . These are available in various sizes = up > to 50 amperes, and they have excellent regulation at 13.8 volts > internally adjustable from about 12 to 14V) with stability that is = usually > within 100 milllivolts from no load up to full rating. > > I have several of these supplies, some are 15 years old and they just = keep > on purring, even in continuous duty in radio transmitter setups. > I think this could be an ideal solution for an organ power supply. > BTW, they are not too expensive; around $150 to 200 for the big ones, > last I checked. > > > > > Harry Chase > > > > > . > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Vanderlee <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> > To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 11:04 AM > Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #687 - 11/18/02 > > >>> Steve, >>> There is a simple solution to your problem. I have built many power > supplies >>> including >>> the one I use on my own organ. Whats happening is the capacitor is > charging >>> to the >>> peak voltage it sees when there is no load on it. A 12 volt supply = means >>> 12volts RMS, >>> however the peak voltage is actually a little over 16 volts. >>> The solution is to add a wirewound resistor across the capacitor, I > suggest >>> approx 10ohms >>> and rated at about 20watts. This should drop your peak voltage back = into > the >>> 12-13 volt range. >>> Hope this helps.... >> >> While this may help it will also require a very large resistor like >> about 160 (or 200 to be safe) WATTS resistor to dissipate the heat. >> To get an idea light three 60 watt lightbulbs and feel the heat!... >> so unless you can find a way to disspate that much heat after finding >> a resistor that large in wattage, you're also cutting back the >> available power on your supply to where there may not be enough left >> to run your organ. >> >> an easy and much safer way is to calculate your current requirements >> and use a voltage regulator Integrated Circuit on a heat sink. those >> (in the TO 3 case) can handle up to 10 amperes , so you may have to >> split your requirements in to several branches not to exceed 10 amps. >> They need about 16 volts in to get 12 out. >> Much safer and a much more stable voltage. >> >> John V >> >> DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >> Residence Pipe Organs. >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >> >> > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: OrganCad From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:05:12 -0600   Jess4203@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Nemesio, > > I believe what you're seeking is a copy of OrganCad, a special CAD > based program for drafting organ drawings. Allan Ontko used to sell > it, I think, but I can't find any mention if it on his recently > updated website at present.   <snip>   > HTH, and let the list know what you find out, maybe others would be > interested.   Let me answer this:   I just communicated with Alan a few days ago. Here is the response he EMAILED to me:   > The folks at General Caddd have brought out a very fine Windows version = of > Generic Cadd. It has all the virtues and many of the annoyingly = charming > quirks of the original version, buts it runs beautifully in Windows. It = is > far less bugggy than Visual Cadd. > So, I am going to revive OrganCADD and bring it into compliance with = this > new Cadd platform.   He also indicated to me that "Beta Testing" won't occur until sometime after the First of the Year.   He hasn't worked out the price of this program as of yet, either.   But he knows there IS a great interest in this program!   Faithfully, -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL