DIYAPASON-L Digest #647 - Sunday, September 15, 2002
 
Small Organs
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Small Organs
  by "F. Richard Burt" <dorian.organs@verizon.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Switching.
  by "ATOS" <atos@stirlingprop.com>
The Organist
  by "F. Richard Burt" <dorian.organs@verizon.net>
Suspended bass notes on celing?
  by <GEU30CG@aol.com>
Solid State Switching
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Suspended bass notes on celing?
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Suspended bass notes on celing?
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Suspended bass notes on celing?
  by "randy" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Small Organs From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 00:40:42 EDT     --part1_102.1ae968e3.2ab5694a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Before I got this organ, I had finally come to the conclusion that I would =   never be able to get the kind of pipe organ I wanted because (1) I wanted = too much organ and (2) I wanted it voiced exactly right which would require a considerable amount of professional help which I didn't think I would be = able to afford. Several times, I almost resigned myself to the idea that I = would only be able to get what would satisfy me in the form of a Rodgers or = Allen.   Regarding the afford part, I admire those people who can put $50-60K into = a custom built chamber organ for their home. I would love to do that.   I truly don't mean to offend anybody, but I really don't want an organ = that is highly unified. When I have a full setting and play a broken chord = such as C-E-G-C, that's what I want, not C-E-G-nothing (because the pipes are already speaking for that key).   Anyway, I had to realize that, if I "had" to have a pipe organ and it had = to be done on a shoestring budget, I wouldn't be able to have everything I wanted. I would have to trim my organ down to some essentials. Any pipe organ I get would not be able to do justice to all organ works, but, being = an amateur organist, I don't think I'll be playing works by Messien, Reger, Langlais, et al. For much of what I enjoy playing, I think I'd do fine on = a much smaller instrument. For the occasional larger work, my organ would = be a great "practice" organ for getting the notes right. Additionally, I want others to enjoy my organ music, not endure it (even from down the street).   I remember a discussion about the "perfect practice organ" on piporg = several years ago. A valid question was raised about what was really meant by the =   term "practice organ". I think most of us, me included, are trying to fit =   concert organs into our homes. If we can't do it with enough pipes, we = unify to the hilt, squeezing out 8-4-2 2/3-2-1 1/3-1 from a single rank of = pipes, and I wonder how many of us are truly pleased with our result. Please, I'm =   not trying to be judgemental.   I searched the web for things about small pipe organs. I was surprised to =   find a few documents that really helped me set some priorities.   These first two documents helped answer some questions about the = differences in purpose, tonal structure, and voicing of small organs (or organs built = for small spaces) as compared with larger ones. Apparently, one creates contrasting registrations by using various "single stop" settings.   <A = HREF=3D"http://www.users.bigpond.com/wjsimonpierce/ethos/smallorgans1.htm">= Small Organs: A Perspective - Part 1</A> http://www.users.bigpond.com/wjsimonpierce/ethos/smallorgans1.htm   <A = HREF=3D"http://www.users.bigpond.com/wjsimonpierce/ethos/smallorgans2.htm">= Small Organs: A Perspective - Part 2</A> http://www.users.bigpond.com/wjsimonpierce/ethos/smallorgans2.htm   <A HREF=3D"http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/dixon/small.htm">George = Dixon - The Tonal Structure of the Small Organ</A> http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/dixon/small.htm     This fourth document got me really excited. Bruce will tell you that he = and I volleyed back and forth numerous times working out stoplists for small 2 =   and 3 manual organs of around 8 ranks (mostly straight!). Apparently, = each stop on these organs is carefully chosen and voiced such that each = individual stop can stand alone in order to create several contrasting settings, yet they can blend into a full enough chorus to create some pretense of a full =   plenum.   <A HREF=3D"http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/trz/3m.htm">Small 3 = Manual British Organs of the Romantic Zenith</A> http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/trz/3m.htm   This document was fantastic!   I think all of the organs described in this document are tracker action, = so they are, by necessity, straight organs. For the home organ of the = 2000's, I don't see why these designs can't be adapted to electrification. Much of the success of these organs surely lies in their voicing and balancing.   The first organ described is a 3m/p 4 rank, 4 stop organ!?!?!? Quite interesting and versatile.   My favorite is a 3M/6R+P organ originally in the residence of a W. H. = Monk, London. There is a detailed account of this organ at:   <A HREF=3D"http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/essays/kilk.htm">Father Willis = Organ at Kilkhampton</A> http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/essays/kilk.htm   Another favorite was a 10 stop 3 manual organ at The Chapel, Weymouth College, Dorset.   I guess my rambling above was just to show y'all some of the tho't process = I was going thru to try to get an organ that I would be happy with overall. = I guess I surprised myself by learning that one could have a very versatile home organ with only 6 ranks of pipes, and be able to play most baroque = and classical organ music on it quite satisfactorily (is that a word?). At least, this would provide an initial nucleus that would be quite playable from the get go, but could, of course, be added to as money and space allowed.   I hope you enjoy the articles.   Sincerely, Keith   --part1_102.1ae968e3.2ab5694a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Before I got this organ, I had finally come to = the conclusion that I would never be able to get the kind of pipe organ I = wanted because (1) I wanted too much organ and (2) I wanted it voiced = exactly right which would require a considerable amount of professional = help which I didn't think I would be able to afford.&nbsp; Several times, = I almost resigned myself to the idea that I would only be able to get what = would satisfy me in the form of a Rodgers or Allen.<BR> <BR> Regarding the afford part, I admire those people who can put $50-60K into = a custom built chamber organ for their home.&nbsp; I would love to do = that.<BR> <BR> I truly don't mean to offend anybody, but I really don't want an organ = that is highly unified.&nbsp; When I have a full setting and play a broken = chord such as C-E-G-C, that's what I want, not C-E-G-nothing (because the = pipes are already speaking for that key).<BR> <BR> Anyway, I had to realize that, if I "had" to have a pipe organ and it had = to be done on a shoestring budget, I wouldn't be able to have everything I = wanted.&nbsp; I would have to trim my organ down to some essentials.&nbsp; = Any pipe organ I get would not be able to do justice to all organ works, = but, being an amateur organist, I don't think I'll be playing works by = Messien, Reger, Langlais, et al. For much of what I enjoy playing, I think = I'd do fine on a much smaller instrument.&nbsp; For the occasional larger = work, my organ would be a great "practice" organ for getting the notes = right.&nbsp; Additionally, I want others to enjoy my organ music, not = endure it (even from down the street).<BR> <BR> I remember a discussion about the "perfect practice organ" on piporg = several years ago.&nbsp; A valid question was raised about what was really = meant by the term "practice organ".&nbsp; I think most of us, me included, = are trying to fit concert organs into our homes.&nbsp; If we can't do it = with enough pipes, we unify to the hilt, squeezing out 8-4-2 2/3-2-1 1/3-1 = from a single rank of pipes, and I wonder how many of us are truly pleased = with our result. Please, I'm not trying to be judgemental.<BR> <BR> I searched the web for things about small pipe organs.&nbsp; I was = surprised to find a few documents that really helped me set some = priorities.<BR> <BR> These first two documents helped answer some questions about the = differences in purpose, tonal structure, and voicing of small organs (or = organs built for small spaces) as compared with larger ones.&nbsp; = Apparently, one creates contrasting registrations by using various "single = stop" settings.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> <A = HREF=3D"http://www.users.bigpond.com/wjsimonpierce/ethos/smallorgans1.htm">= Small Organs: A Perspective - Part 1</A><BR> http://www.users.bigpond.com/wjsimonpierce/ethos/smallorgans1.htm<BR> <BR> <A = HREF=3D"http://www.users.bigpond.com/wjsimonpierce/ethos/smallorgans2.htm">= Small Organs: A Perspective - Part 2</A><BR> http://www.users.bigpond.com/wjsimonpierce/ethos/smallorgans2.htm<BR> <BR> <A HREF=3D"http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/dixon/small.htm">George = Dixon - The Tonal Structure of the Small Organ</A><BR> http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/dixon/small.htm<BR> <BR> <BR> This fourth document got me really excited.&nbsp; Bruce will tell you that = he and I volleyed back and forth numerous times working out stoplists for = small 2 and 3 manual organs of around 8 ranks (mostly straight!).&nbsp; = Apparently, each stop on these organs is carefully chosen and voiced such = that each individual stop can stand alone in order to create several = contrasting settings, yet they can blend into a full enough chorus to = create some pretense of a full plenum.<BR> <BR> <A HREF=3D"http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/trz/3m.htm">Small 3 = Manual British Organs of the Romantic Zenith</A><BR> http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/trz/3m.htm<BR> <BR> This document was fantastic!<BR> <BR> I think all of the organs described in this document are tracker action, = so they are, by necessity, straight organs.&nbsp; For the home organ of = the 2000's, I don't see why these designs can't be adapted to = electrification.&nbsp; Much of the success of these organs surely lies in = their voicing and balancing.<BR> <BR> The first organ described is a 3m/p 4 rank, 4 stop organ!?!?!?&nbsp; Quite = interesting and versatile.<BR> <BR> My favorite is a 3M/6R+P organ originally in the residence of a W. H. = Monk, London.&nbsp; There is a detailed account of this organ at:<BR> <BR> <A HREF=3D"http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/essays/kilk.htm">Father Willis = Organ at Kilkhampton</A><BR> http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/essays/kilk.htm<BR> <BR> Another favorite was a 10 stop 3 manual organ at The Chapel, Weymouth = College, Dorset.<BR> <BR> I guess my rambling above was just to show y'all some of the tho't process = I was going thru to try to get an organ that I would be happy with = overall.&nbsp; I guess I surprised myself by learning that one could have = a very versatile home organ with only 6 ranks of pipes, and be able to = play most baroque and classical organ music on it quite satisfactorily (is = that a word?).&nbsp;&nbsp; At least, this would provide an initial nucleus = that would be quite playable from the get go, but could, of course, be = added to as money and space allowed.<BR> <BR> I hope you enjoy the articles.<BR> <BR> Sincerely,<BR> Keith </FONT></HTML>   --part1_102.1ae968e3.2ab5694a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Small Organs From: "F. Richard Burt" <dorian.organs@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:24:26 -0500   Kzimmer0817@aol.com wrote: > * * * > > Anyway, I had to realize that, if I "had" to have a pipe organ > and it had to be done on a shoestring budget... Hello, Keith: I identified with your desire and persistence to study your options first. This is quite close to my own pilgrimage. What I really appreciate is your posting some of the reference materials to which we can link quickly by this modern wonder of the Internet. As a result, in the back of my mind, I keep wondering if a "real pipe organ" could still be in my future. <grins, broad smiles, and twinkles in my eyes> I will have the privilege of spending several days with some pipe organ builders this coming week. You better believe I will be picking their brains. <more eager anticipation> Keep the news coming. This is fantastic reading. Appreciatively, F. Richard Burt ..  
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Switching. From: "ATOS" <atos@stirlingprop.com> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:31:48 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0006_01C25CA3.18A227A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   While I don't know of any one document that covers all the questions you = are asking, you may want to visit the website for the ATOS -S.M.G.C. chapter = and look at the section we call our knowledge base, http://atos.stirlingprop.com/knowbase.htm. There are a number of articles about various things you mention below. Beyond that, you should see if someone in your area has a copy of the Pipe Organ Encyclopedia. That document was produced around theater organs, however it gives some in = depth basic information that pertains to all pipe organs. I would also search Mechanical Musical Digest as they archive a lot of material that may help you. If you need additional information, please email me privately and I will try to help you find specific information if you can't get answers elsewhere. -----Original Message----- From: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org]On = Behalf Of Kzimmer0817@aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 10:51 PM To: diyapason-l@pipechat.org; pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: [Residence Organs] Switching.     Experts,   I would like to read a treatise on the wiring of organs - from the keys = to the pipes - naming the various components that are used. I've seen relays and gang switches. I looked into a Moller Artiste years ago and it was wired using the small sliding things with the little "quill" looking = things sticking up that I've seen in an old Reisner catalog called "couplers".   1. For straight organs first. I guess that would keep things simple. A. Pitman chests B. EP chests C. DE chests 2 For unified organs. A little more complicated. Where I tend to see things like gang switches and relays. IOW, please explain the big panel that can be as big as a ping pong table that directs the current from the keys to the right pipe(s).   Probably, discussing it using the older mechanical components first = would help the understanding. After we understand that, we'll be in better position to understand the solid state way of doing it.   Thanks, Keith   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0006_01C25CA3.18A227A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D730202115-15092002><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>While=3D20 I don't know of any one document that covers all the questions you are =3D asking,=3D20 you may want to visit the website for the ATOS -S.M.G.C. chapter and =3D look at the=3D20 section we call our knowledge base, <A=3D20 href=3D3D"http://atos.stirlingprop.com/knowbase.htm">http://atos.stirlingpr= =3D op.com/knowbase.htm</A>.=3D20 There are a number of articles about various things you mention below. =3D Beyond=3D20 that, you should see if someone in your area has a copy of the Pipe =3D Organ=3D20 Encyclopedia. That document was produced around theater organs, however = =3D it gives=3D20 some in depth basic information that pertains to all pipe organs. I =3D would also=3D20 search Mechanical Musical Digest as they archive a lot of material that = =3D may help=3D20 you. If you need additional information,&nbsp;please email =3D me&nbsp;privately and=3D20 I will try to help you find specific information if you can't get =3D answers=3D20 elsewhere.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=3D3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3D3Dltr align=3D3Dleft><FONT =3D face=3D3DTahoma=3D20 size=3D3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =3D DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=3D20 [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org]<B>On Behalf Of=3D20 </B>Kzimmer0817@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 14, 2002 =3D 10:51=3D20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> diyapason-l@pipechat.org;=3D20 pipechat@pipechat.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Residence Organs]=3D20 Switching.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D lang=3D3D0=3D20 face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">Experts,<BR><BR>I would = =3D like to read a=3D20 treatise on the wiring of organs - from the keys to the pipes - naming = =3D the=3D20 various components that are used.&nbsp; I've seen relays and gang=3D20 switches.&nbsp; I looked into a Moller Artiste years ago and it was =3D wired=3D20 using the small sliding things with the little "quill" looking things = =3D sticking=3D20 up that I've seen in an old Reisner catalog called =3D "couplers".<BR><BR>1.&nbsp;=3D20 For straight organs first.&nbsp; I guess that would keep things=3D20 simple.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A.&nbsp; Pitman=3D20 chests<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; B.&nbsp; EP=3D20 chests<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; C.&nbsp; DE =3D chests<BR>2&nbsp;=3D20 For unified organs.&nbsp; A little more complicated.&nbsp; Where I =3D tend to see=3D20 things like gang switches and relays.&nbsp; IOW, please explain the =3D big panel=3D20 that can be as big as a ping pong table that directs the current from = =3D the keys=3D20 to the right pipe(s).<BR><BR>Probably, discussing it using the = older=3D20 mechanical components first would help the understanding.&nbsp; After = =3D we=3D20 understand that, we'll be in better position to understand the solid =3D state way=3D20 of doing it.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Keith</FONT> =3D </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0006_01C25CA3.18A227A0--    
(back) Subject: The Organist From: "F. Richard Burt" <dorian.organs@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:59:40 -0500   Hello, Listers: This is just a bit of nostalgia for the day... I ran into George Stevens' poem the other day, and it seems to be appropriate to hear it again. Sharing... THE ORGANIST by George F. Stevens   I wonder how the organist can do so many things; He's getting ready long before the choir stands up and sings; He's pressing buttons, pushing stops, he's pulling here and there, And testing all the working parts while listening to the prayer.   He runs a mighty big machine, it's full of funny things; A mass of boxes, pipes and tubes and sticks and slats and strings; There's little whistles for a cent in rows and rows and rows; I'll bet there's twenty miles of tubes as large as garden hose.   There's scores as large as stovepipes and there's lots so big and wide That several little boys I know could play around inside. From little bits of piccolos that hardly make a toot There's every size up to the great big elevator chute.   The organist knows every one and how they ought to go; He makes them rumble like a storm, or plays them sweet and low; At times you think them very near; at times they're soaring high, Like angel voices, singing far off, somewhere in the sky.   For he can take this structure, that's as big as any house, And make it squeak as softly as a tiny little mouse; And then he'll jerk out something with a movement of the hand, And you think you're listening to a military band.   He plays it with his fingers and he plays it with his toes, And if he really wanted to he'd play it with his nose; He's sliding up and down the bench, he's working with his knees; He's dancing round with both his feet as lively as you please.   I always like to take a seat where I can see him go; He's better than a sermon, and he does me good, I know; I like the life and movement and I like to hear him play; He is the most exciting thing in town on Sabbath day. - - - - - I'm not going as far as Stevens did; we still have some very fine worship services in our churches, but... even so, the organist can be quite entertaining at times. F. Richard Burt ..  
(back) Subject: Suspended bass notes on celing? From: <GEU30CG@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:27:41 EDT   Hello Everyone.   I am struggling with how to get some bass notes installed for my home installation. In a nutshell, here is my problem. . .   I have two ranks of 16' wooden bass notes. A bourdon and subbass. I = would like use both ranks. The longest note on the bourdon for example is about = 9 feet plus boot and chest rounds the length to about 10 feet. I have a 7 = 1/2 foot ceiling in the chamber room. So I am debating a number of options.   Option 1) Miter the pipes. This would involve about 5 notes of each = rank. Not a bad option, but I did want to maintain some original integrity of = the pipes in the case that someday a "real" chamber may be built in a = different location. (It would also mean the potential of bumping my head on the mitered pipes and shake some sense into me and stop trying to install a = home organ.) :-) Mr. Sefl was very kind in recent private emails to discuss =   specifics on pipe mitering.   Option 2) Lay the notes all on their sides stacked. Again a great option =   but the chest the notes rest on is just over 9 feet long, so it won't fit either. I have considered chopping the chest which actually seems easier then mitering pipes. Am I nuts??   Option 3) It occurred to me that I could "suspend" all the notes from the =   ceiling horizontally. Well, actually, create some kind of cradle from the =   side walls. My thoughts here are that I would need to be concerned about = the total weight of the pipes and then devise some kind of way to hang them. Anyone out there have any jpg's of pipes suspended in any kind of method? =     I would like to "hear" your opinions or any new ideas. Thanks!   Darren Ferreter Cedar Rapids, Iowa GEU30CG@aol.com  
(back) Subject: Solid State Switching From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:36:37 -0500     Kzimmer0817@aol.com wrote: > Experts, > I would like to read a treatise on the wiring of organs - from the > keys to the pipes - naming the various components that are used. I've > seen relays and gang switches. I looked into a Moller Artiste years > ago and it was wired using the small sliding things with the little > "quill" looking things sticking up that I've seen in an old Reisner > catalog called "couplers".   I don't know just how much of a "treatise" there exists on wiring organs, per-se, but the nearest "equivalent that will be very helpful would be any information you can find on Telephone Company Wiring Practices. Maybe a larger library somewhere might have this technical information. > 1. For straight organs first. I guess that would keep things simple. > A. Pitman chests > B. EP chests > C. DE chests   The first thing you need to know and understand is this: Cotton Covered wiring, which is what is in most old organs is now ILLEGAL and cannot be re-used. It must be replaced, per Article 650 of the National Electric Code. If you don't, and your insurance adjuster finds out you didn't do it according to code, you can lose your FIRE INSURANCE!   There is a color code that ought to be followed for this, at the following URL: http://atos.stirlingprop.com/kbase/Wurlitzer_phonecable_standard_colors.htm=     > 2 For unified organs. A little more complicated. Where I tend to > see things like gang switches and relays. IOW, please explain the big > panel that can be as big as a ping pong table that directs the current > from the keys to the right pipe(s). > Probably, discussing it using the older mechanical components first > would help the understanding. After we understand that, we'll be in > better position to understand the solid state way of doing it.   Tell the truth? Rather than having to try to do all that, you're better off thinking out the specification of the organ, then turning to a reputable solid state relay manufacturer, such as Peterson, who can guide and help you work out what is needed for the organ. See http://www.petersonemp.com for further details.   Our experience has been that trying to "cut corners" in doing solid state stuff always is a recipe for disaster, disappointment and frustration. Granted, it seems as though the equipment is very expensive commercially produced, but that is how companies like Peterson re-coup all of their up-front research and development costs, as well as providing Technical Support that is second to none. After all: they have to pay people like Bob Dommer, one of the friendly voices on the other end of the phone that's always ready to help you out SOMEhow!! They have a booklet for you to fill out, upon request (or you can download it on-line!) that will help you think out the organ more intelligently ahead of time.   I hope that this is helpful to you!   Faithfully,     -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Suspended bass notes on celing? From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:44:25 -0500   Darren   One other option is to lay the bottom 5 or so on their sides and tube them off from the chest. if you use the correct size of tubing, i.e. large enough to hand the wind needed for those pipes, you shouldn't have any problems. That would also allow you to plant the rest of the rank on the chest as it is and it wouldn't involve any alterations to the chest itself. You could even hang those pipes along the ceiling and tube them from the chest on the floor.   The easiest way to do this would be to take the feet off those pipes that are on their side and make some tubing blocks of the correct size to screw on both the pipe and the chest. If you do that you will have to make some sort of regulators for each of the pipes but those can be made very easily out of some aluminum sheeting. Just make sure that you use a large enough size of tubing to give the pipes plenty of wind, which the bottom notes of a 16' Bourdon and Subbass need to speak properly. Personally, I wouldnt use anything smaller than 1 1/4" tubing for those pipes.   Depending on the construction of the pipes you may need to put spacers in between each of them when you lay them down. Some wooden pipes have a slight belly to them so they will not stack well without spacers. i would also make a strip to fasten to each of the pipes either by using the pipe hooks already in place or just screwed into the pipes themselves to hold them all in place.   We do this all the time in our installations and it does work fine. In one recent organ we laid the bottom 17 (I think that was the number) of the Subbass on the top of the chamber and made a tubing box that went along the side of all the pipes. some of the tubes were much longer than others but the pipes speak without any problems. We also did this in our last installation where some of the pipes for the Open Wood are on top of the chamber with the tubing box behind the chamber. It works fine.   Hope this helps.   David  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Suspended bass notes on celing? From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:52:45 -0500     GEU30CG@aol.com wrote: > Hello Everyone. > I am struggling with how to get some bass notes installed for my home > installation.   > Option 3) It occurred to me that I could "suspend" all the notes from = the > ceiling horizontally. Well, actually, create some kind of cradle from = the > side walls. My thoughts here are that I would need to be concerned = about the > total weight of the pipes and then devise some kind of way to hang them. > Anyone out there have any jpg's of pipes suspended in any kind of = method?   Simple solution:   Go down to the local Electrical Supply House and get ahold of two pieces (or more, if the length exceeds what it comes in of UNISTRUT, and place one immediately above the mouths of the pipes and then another one, on an angle, following the tops of the pipes, and bolt it up to the floor using "Redi-Bolt" to establish the distance between the ceiling and the Unistrut.   Unistrut is available already with holes drilled in it and you should be able to install 2 or 3 pieces of 3/8" diameter "redi-bolts" to carry the weight.   Even though they seem so, wood pipes are actually not all that heavy!   The Windchest can be cleated into place using metal corner angles. You may have to nail up a few "sleeper" blocks of 1X10s between some of the ceiling joists in strategic locations in order to carry the weight. Use BIG fender Washers underneath the bolt heads above the sleepers to help distribute the weight.   Of Course, you could also use 2X4's or other dimension lumber, but the Unistrut , or even 1-1/2" Angle Irons, will make for a more "professional"-looking job and ensure that pipes won't come crashing down due to overloading wooden members.   Conversely, the whole assembly could be built as a "rack" that's supported from the floor also.   Hope this helps get the "imagination juices" flowing for you!   Faithfully, -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Suspended bass notes on celing? From: "randy" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 23:03:47 -0400   hi darren,   have you considered stacking the pipes horizontally? i've seen it done a = few times and it seems to work pretty well. the main problem you have to = overcome is how to keep the feet of the pipes in the toe holes of the chest if you = decide to suspended it vertically at the end of the pipes. i have seen springs on = hooks screwed into the bottom of the pipe and the top of the chest. another installation i saw used insulating putty wrapped around where the chest = and toes meet or as an alternative you can tube off the pipes using small flexible = wind conductor and flanges screwed onto the chest. if the pipe feet are round = and you are lucky, the wind conductor might just fit over the end of the toes. if = not you will have to figure out some other way to attach it.   let us know what you end up doin and how it works out.   -randy     GEU30CG@aol.com wrote:   > Hello Everyone. > > I am struggling with how to get some bass notes installed for my home > installation. In a nutshell, here is my problem. . . > > I have two ranks of 16' wooden bass notes. A bourdon and subbass. I = would > like use both ranks. The longest note on the bourdon for example is = about 9 > feet plus boot and chest rounds the length to about 10 feet. I have a 7 = 1/2 > foot ceiling in the chamber room. So I am debating a number of options. > > Option 1) Miter the pipes. This would involve about 5 notes of each = rank. > Not a bad option, but I did want to maintain some original integrity of = the > pipes in the case that someday a "real" chamber may be built in a = different > location. (It would also mean the potential of bumping my head on the > mitered pipes and shake some sense into me and stop trying to install a = home > organ.) :-) Mr. Sefl was very kind in recent private emails to = discuss > specifics on pipe mitering. > > Option 2) Lay the notes all on their sides stacked. Again a great = option > but the chest the notes rest on is just over 9 feet long, so it won't = fit > either. I have considered chopping the chest which actually seems = easier > then mitering pipes. Am I nuts?? > > Option 3) It occurred to me that I could "suspend" all the notes from = the > ceiling horizontally. Well, actually, create some kind of cradle from = the > side walls. My thoughts here are that I would need to be concerned = about the > total weight of the pipes and then devise some kind of way to hang them. > Anyone out there have any jpg's of pipes suspended in any kind of = method? > > I would like to "hear" your opinions or any new ideas. Thanks! > > Darren Ferreter > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > GEU30CG@aol.com > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org