DIYAPASON-L Digest #856 - Friday, August 8, 2003
 
Felix Hell in the Pacific Northwest
  by "Carl Dodrill" <carl@dodrill.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Just when I thought I had it all figured  out....
  by "Peter Schmuckal" <peter@schmuckal.com>
Re:Just when I thought I had it all figured  out....
  by "James Henry" <jimhen3ry@earthlink.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Vox on separate chest?
  by "Tony Newnham" <organist@tsnp.fsnet.co.uk>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Just when I thought I had it all figured   out...
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Vox on separate chest?
  by <Pipewheezr@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Vox on separate chest?
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Vox on separate chest?
  by "ATOS" <atos@stirlingprop.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Vox on separate chest?
  by "John Haskey" <johnh@haskey.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Vox on separate chest?
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Vox on separate chest?
  by "Dave Heimer" <dheimer@sensible.net>
Aeolian Organs
  by "wcjharrisville" <wcjharrisville@webryders.net>
 

(back) Subject: Felix Hell in the Pacific Northwest From: "Carl Dodrill" <carl@dodrill.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 22:00:52 -0700   This is to notify everyone that Felix Hell will be playing two concerts in the Seattle area sponsored by the Pipe Organ Foundation:   1. First Presbyterian Church of Bellevue, Washington--7:30 PM on Friday evening, September 12, 2003. This church has a 50+ rank 3 manual Casavant that has just been enlarged. The church is at 1717 Bellevue Way NE and parking is easy.   2. Lagerquist Hall at Pacific Lutheran University--3 PM on Sunday afternoon, September 14, 2003. The instrument is a three manual 80 rank Fritts tracker in the Tacoma/Parkland area. This concert is co-sponsored by the Department of Music of Pacific Lutheran University (Paul Tegels, Organist).   NOTE:   Felix will be playing substantially or completely different programs at the two concerts, and attendance at both is suggested. Driving instructions will be provided as tickets are ordered.   This is an excellent opportunity to introduce young people to the pipe organ and to meet Felix. He is exceptionally personable, and he is most encouraging to youth who are willing to consider studying the organ. Special prices for students and seniors (60+).   Obtain tickets ($10-15/concert) through www.pipeorganfoundation.org or by calling (206)236-3492. A reception will follow each event. In Bellevue, the reception will be held in the church narthex. At PLU, the reception will be held at the Fritts Organ Builders shop, one mile away from the concert where Paul Fritts has a large organ in progress for the University of Notre Dame.   Carl Dodrill Pipe Organ Foundation 4488 West Mercer Way Mercer Island WA 98040 Phone: (206) 236-3492 Fax: (425) 696-0082 www.pipeorganfoundation.org E-mail: info@pipeorganfoundation.org    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Just when I thought I had it all figured out.... From: "Peter Schmuckal" <peter@schmuckal.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 22:06:34 -0700     Definitely DIP (Dual In-line Package). All the rest are tiny surface mount type packages.   Where are you located, Paul?     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: 07 August, 2003 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Just when I thought I had it all figured out....     > Okay...I'm buying some replacement chips tonight on > digikey.com --- only there are two choice for what I > want: > > ON THE HEX SCHMITT TRIGGER (40106/4584/74C14) > Same number, then a dash and a > SOIC, > TSSOP, or > DIP > suffix on the end. Which one do I want? > > It's the same thing on the 4094 chip that I need (8 > bit shift register). That gives the choice of either a > TSSOP or DIP. > > And the last chip is the driver chips, it gives the > choice of SOL or DIP. > > Since DIP is the only common one, I would imagine it's > that one. But I wanted to check with people that would > know before I do anything that I shouldn't... > > Thanks for your help!!!! > Paul > > > > > --- Larry Chace <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> wrote: > > Paul Soulek described a problem. The chip in > > question is probably a > > "40106", also known as "4584 or 74C14", which is in > > fact 6 Schmitt trigger > > inverters. The 4000-series of CMOS integrated > > circuits is specified to > > operate on voltages up to about 18v. A supply > > voltage of 19.2v is just > > beyond the specified maximum. I'd say that the > > "15v" supply is probably > > one of those (in)famous wall-warts that puts out > > more than its stated > > voltage. > > > > (Maybe I'm wrong, but 19.2v is really too much for > > the poor little CMOS > > guys, who will operate very happily on, say, 12v or > > 15v for years at a > > time.) > > > > Replacements are available (via the web) from many > > sources, including, but > > not limited to : > > > > http://www.jdr.com > > http://www.digikey.com > > > > Expect to pay about $0.50 each, or maybe less. > > > > From Paul's description, it may well seem that there > > is something else > > wrong, but I'd correct the voltage supply first. > > The good folks at Rodgers > > should be able to provide good advice. > > > > Larry Chace > > > > > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and > > builders of their own > > Residence Pipe Organs. > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re:Just when I thought I had it all figured out.... From: "James Henry" <jimhen3ry@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 22:18:32 -0700   Paul,   Looking for the common denominator was a clever way to figure that out. The suffixes are all refering to the form of packaging. DIP is dual inline package. That's the kind of package with two rows of pins on 0.1 in centers that look sort of like bug legs and are soldered into holes on the PC board. The others are various types of newer packages that are generally smaller and most if not all of them are surface mount packages. Pretty sure you will want the DIP package.   Jim Henry   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:37:14 -0700 (PDT)   Okay...I'm buying some replacement chips tonight on digikey.com --- only there are two choice for what I want:   ON THE HEX SCHMITT TRIGGER (40106/4584/74C14) Same number, then a dash and a SOIC, TSSOP, or DIP suffix on the end. Which one do I want?   It's the same thing on the 4094 chip that I need (8 bit shift register). That gives the choice of either a TSSOP or DIP.   And the last chip is the driver chips, it gives the choice of SOL or DIP.   Since DIP is the only common one, I would imagine it's that one. But I wanted to check with people that would know before I do anything that I shouldn't...   Thanks for your help!!!! Paul    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Vox on separate chest? From: "Tony Newnham" <organist@tsnp.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:58:46 +0100   Hi   The one genuine Wurlitzer that I've played had the Vox on a separate chest - and having the trem separate is VERY useful. From what I've seen of theatre organ practice, a separate chest is the norm - and I think it's the way to go.   Every Blessing   Tony   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert W. Taylor" <rtaylor@socket.net> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:31 AM Subject: [Residence Organs] Vox on separate chest?     | I've wondered if taking the Vox off of my 13 stop swell chest, and placing | it on an unit chest would have any real advantage. (I just acquired a small | vox chest) The change would permit the vox to be drawn, with its own trem, | while the swell trem would be off. Now, when the vox is on, the whole | swell chest is under trem. | | The vacant space on the swell could be filled with several ranks I have on | hand, but most likely, an 8' Gamba to fill out my string chorus. | | Any comments from the group? | | Regards, | | Bob Taylor | | | DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own | Residence Pipe Organs. | HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org | List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org | Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org | | |    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Just when I thought I had it all figured out.... From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:00:19 -0400   Paul Soulek asked about the packaging types for integrated circuits.   DIP is "dual inline package" and is the traditional style with an epoxy body and pins running down each side, to be plugged into a socket or soldered into holes in a circuit board. The pins are typically spaced on ..1" centers and the two rows of pins are on .3", .4", or .6" centers.   SOIC is "small outline integrated circuit", a newer package that is smaller and is meant to be sweat-soldered onto the surface of a board. The contact legs are on .05" centers.   TSSOP is "???" but it is also a surface-mount device and has an even closer spacing of the contact legs.   DIP is almost certainly what is needed, or at least it is the only technology of the three that is practical for device replacement. (It is possible to unsolder the surface-mount parts and to install new ones, but it is difficult to do so without specialized tools or even magnifiers.)   One very nice feature of the Digi-Key web site is that they have links to the manufacturers' datasheets for most items. When you aren't sure about an item, you can follow the links and see the for-real information provided by the maker for use by designers and developers. Usually, these are PDFs and often they are of a reasonable size (but not always!).   Paul, do your rank driver boards have sockets for the integrated circuits? You didn't mention the part number for the actual driver chips, but from your description, I'd bet they are ULN2803AP (an 8-position "sink" driver in a plastic DIP); they pull their outputs down (nearly) to ground when turned on, and so the chest magnets would have a common positive connection.   The use of the CMOS 4094 8-bit shift register with the ULN2803 8-bit sink driver is a fairly common design (perhaps the most "intuitively obvious"), and the 40106/4584/74C14 Schmitt trigger inverter (used as a noise filter), is also a good choice.   The fact that you've had chips failing indicates that "something is wrong". A very good place to check is the wiring for the "flyback diodes" that are present in the ULN2803 driver chips. In order for them to do their job, squelching the high voltage spike that the magnets will generate when the driver chip turns off, there must be a good connection between pin 10 on the driver chip and the positive side of the magnet power supply. If this connection isn't reliable, or if it is made of a too-small guage wire, then the driver chips will sooner or later die, and sometimes they will also take the 4094 shift registers along with them.   Ideally, the driver chips should be located "near" the magnets and the flyback wiring should be of a good gauge wire solidly connected. In this context, the word "near" is a bit vague, but something in the range of 10 to 20 feet should be ok, but closer is better. The flyback wire should also be as short as possible. Most ideally, the magnets should have flyback diodes located right across the coils, thereby avoiding any possibility of poor connections or high impedence. This is especially important for magnets that draw lots of current, such as the ones used in stoptab or stopknob actions within a console.   Sorry to have blathered on for so long...   Larry Chace        
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Vox on separate chest? From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:00:58 EDT   Could you use two trems. one set up for churchy/clasical and the other for =   theater type playing. The vox on it's own chest is what the local organ = man told to do and it's own trem. but I have been thinking about the dueling trems. =   idea for a while. I have one theater type stop, a big Wangrin stopped diapason. Would that want to be on it's own chest too? And a theater type trem. = also?   Dennis the menace. PS the choir swell box is almost finished! Any one like to see pictures?    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Vox on separate chest? From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:08:15 -0400   Bob Taylor asked about putting his Vox onto a separate chest with its own reservoir and tremulant, and that indeed is a very common arrangement on theatre organs. In the case of Wurlitzer, at least, the Vox was usually on a lower pressure (6"), and so it *had* to have its own pressure regulator; having its own tremulant was therefore a necessity. (In some instances where different wind pressures made it necessary to have several tremulants, Wurlitzer nevertheless ganged several of them together on a single stoptab, which does seem to be a big of a waste.)   Bob's instrument, though, is a large-ish Aeolian residence organ, and usually (almost always?) Aeolian did not put the Vox on a seperate wind supply but instead just placed it on one of the multi-rank chests. Since the Vox stoptab also turned on the associate tremulant, one could argue that Aeolian *expected* to have the Vox always under tremulant operation and that the other ranks on that chest were also expected to trem along. Aeolian certainly could have afforded to provide a separate wind supply for the Vox if they thought that was desirable. (Or, rather, Aeolian's "patrons" could have afforded it!)   Historical purity aside, it does probably make more *musical* sense to have the Vox on its own tremulant. Maybe Bob should install a hidden switch that would turn on the Swell tremulant whenever the Vox is in use (on its own new chest)! That way he could play the Duo-Art rolls in an authentic manner.   Is the Vox's position on the Swell chests suitable for a full-length rank like a Gamba? Would it block access to anthing else?   Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Vox on separate chest? From: "ATOS" <atos@stirlingprop.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:35:04 -0500   Larry, Just wanted to pose the question to Bob as to how the trem speeds and vox characteristics on the Aeolean compare with the vox of a typical theatre organ? On most of the theatre organs I have seen, the vox is independently winded and tremmed, usually on lower pressure than the rest of the organ. It is also common practice to independently wind and trem the tibia because the depth of the trem is usually much deeper than you would want on most of the standard ranks. I have not had the opportunity to play an Aeolean or a Skinner from that era and I was wondering if the vox is a solo rank or if it was designed to be used in conjunction with another stop like the Tibia or whatever those organs have?   -----Original Message----- From: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Larry Chace Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:08 AM To: Residence Organ List Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Vox on separate chest?     Bob Taylor asked about putting his Vox onto a separate chest with its own reservoir and tremulant, and that indeed is a very common arrangement on theatre organs. In the case of Wurlitzer, at least, the Vox was usually on a lower pressure (6"), and so it *had* to have its own pressure regulator; having its own tremulant was therefore a necessity. (In some instances where different wind pressures made it necessary to have several tremulants, Wurlitzer nevertheless ganged several of them together on a single stoptab, which does seem to be a big of a waste.)   Bob's instrument, though, is a large-ish Aeolian residence organ, and usually (almost always?) Aeolian did not put the Vox on a seperate wind supply but instead just placed it on one of the multi-rank chests. Since the Vox stoptab also turned on the associate tremulant, one could argue that Aeolian *expected* to have the Vox always under tremulant operation and that the other ranks on that chest were also expected to trem along. Aeolian certainly could have afforded to provide a separate wind supply for the Vox if they thought that was desirable. (Or, rather, Aeolian's "patrons" could have afforded it!)   Historical purity aside, it does probably make more *musical* sense to have the Vox on its own tremulant. Maybe Bob should install a hidden switch that would turn on the Swell tremulant whenever the Vox is in use (on its own new chest)! That way he could play the Duo-Art rolls in an authentic manner.   Is the Vox's position on the Swell chests suitable for a full-length rank like a Gamba? Would it block access to anthing else?   Larry Chace     DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Vox on separate chest? From: "John Haskey" <johnh@haskey.net> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:36:36 -0700 (PDT)       On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 Pipewheezr@aol.com wrote:   > PS the choir swell box is almost finished! > Any one like to see pictures?     Yes, please send or post pictures some where!   It's always great to 'see' what others are doing. Thanks.   ---john.    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Vox on separate chest? From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:05:19 -0400   Joe asked about the role of the Vox in the Aeolian residence organs. As I understand it, the Vox was often used to enhance the strings, which were always a favorite of Aeolian. Their (non-Orchestral) Oboe also had the same role, at least in part of its compass, and so it wasn't necessarily consistent in tone quality from bottom to top.   These organs were often used as sources of background music, and so the voices were not nearly as sharply contrasting as those in a theatre organ. They didn't have individualistic voices like the Tibia Clausa or English (Post) Horn, and the strings were much more gentle. There typically was no unification, though many of them did have duplex chests so that each rank could be played at will on either manual. Rarely was there anything above 4' pitch, and even those were almost always flutes, not diapasons or reeds. Rarely was there anything at 16' on the manuals, except perhaps a lonely 16' Bourdon.   The wind pressures were almost always low, 3" to 5" being pretty normal. The occasional Solo division might be on 8" pressure (and probably consisted of an open wood Flute, a String Celeste, and a Tuba, all at 8').   The consoles typically had only a blind combination action (that didn't move the stop tablets), and often the keyboards weren't even used at all, the roll player being the way in which the organ was played. (I'm reminded of one in Elmira, NY, in which the console wasn't even in the music room but instead was placed in an anclove off the corridor leading to the music room.)   Bob (Taylor), or others who have Aeolians, can you comment? (I have some Aeolian pipework, but at present it is all relaxing in pipe trays and I don't know when it might actually be put to use. These ranks are all *very* nicely voiced, but they are not loud!)   Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Vox on separate chest? From: "Dave Heimer" <dheimer@sensible.net> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:41:22 -0400   Yo Guys,   OK, this may be going off on a tangent, and I don't wana start trouble, but are there any other folks out there that find the sound of a vox akin to fingernails down a blackboard? I hate to sound prejudiced, but that sound have irritated me since I was a kid.   On trems.... I have a regular trem and a Austin fan type set up on my instrument. I tend to favor the Austin, but will sometimes switch over to the pneumatic when the spirit moves me.   Regards, Dave Heimer    
(back) Subject: Aeolian Organs From: "wcjharrisville" <wcjharrisville@webryders.net> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 21:18:24 -0400   This is a bit of "same church, different pew" story. When I was in my =3D 20s and lived in N.J. I heard of an organ that was going to be =3D demolished along with the estate. The property, located on the =3D palasades in Alpine, N.J., originally belonged to the Timken Roller =3D Bearing family. The State of N.J became owners and was going to extend = =3D their park system along the high bluffs of the Hudson River. I made =3D contact with state officials, went out and examined the organ and made =3D an offer of $500 which was immediately accepted. It was an Aeolian =3D organ of about 10 ranks, including a free reed clarinet. The estate =3D having been abandoned for some time, had suffered tremendous damage by =3D vandals. The player console was in shambles, but the rest of the organ = =3D was untouched having been under lock & key, accessable only through a 30 = =3D inch service scuttle in a porch roof. I had only 2 days to remove what = =3D I could before the wreckers arrived. Working alone, I could only =3D salvage the pipework and chimes. The organ had been originally =3D installed before the building was finished inside - I had neither the =3D time or equipment to break out the wall and lower the chests down. The =3D estate, however, was something akin to something belonging to an ancient = =3D cult. The dining room and kitchen was one building, the bedrooms =3D another, the library and living rooms - all very strange and separate =3D buildings. The building in which the organ was located was shaped to =3D somewhat resemble an elephant. You walked under the "front legs" to get = =3D to the door. The building, finished in smooth stucco, was bulbous and = =3D rounded and painted a dark green. Working well into each night with no = =3D electric - only propane lanterns - the shadows, night noises and erie =3D surroundings were at times terrifying. I sold all the pipework and =3D years later acquired it again, including the clarinet - but that is =3D another long story. Will