DIYAPASON-L Digest #715 - Thursday, January 2, 2003
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  Derived Mixtures
  by "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com>
Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - 01/01/03
  by "Terry Gibson" <terryg55@nexicom.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - 01/01/03
  by "Jonathan Reese" <jreese@digitas.com>
borrowed mutations
  by "Robert Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net>
3 Mutations from 1 rank -NOT!
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  3 Mutations from 1 rank -NOT!
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
derived mixtures
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Aeolian Diapason?
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
[Residence Organs]  Aeolian Diapason?
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Stud layout
  by "Drew Taylor" <drewt@loritsu.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Derived Mixtures From: "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 06:39:15 -0800 (PST)   Thanks for the help and "bubble bursting"--I'm glad I found out now before I started it.   Thanks again and Happy New Year! Paul     --- David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> wrote: > It does "sound too good to be true" and > unfortunately it is too good > to be true, it won't work. If I were in your shoes > I would use the > 2' principal rank as it is and meant to be. > > Over the years I have run across a couple of organs > with these > derived "Mixtures" and they don't work. All they do > is add high > pitched "squeals" all over the keyboard - they don't > blend in at all. > Unfortunately during the neo-baroque era many people > had the idea > that adding these high-pitched squeals would help > make the organ > sound "baroque". It doesn't work that way. > > There is an "art" to specifying a mixture. It needs > to be scaled > correctly for the underlying chorus. Using the two > octaves of a 2' > and a 2 2/3' will not result in something that is at > all scaled > correctly and the breaks will stick out like a sore > thumb. > > Before you think about trying to add a mixture my > feeling is that you > need to study the purpose and the design of > well-conceived mixtures. > The specification of good mixtures is an art. > > Sorry to burst your bubble but I hope this helps. > > David > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and > builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - 01/01/03 From: "Terry Gibson" <terryg55@nexicom.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:51:30 -0500   Regarding the note on derived mixtures, I agree with all of the other = notes saying it wont work. I have a home built 6 ranker and I tried to take unison and fifth principal notes to make up a mixture and it was terrible. Being unified, you cant regulate anything so its too loud and the fifth ranks are out of tune, (because its part of a unison rank). I did break down and buy a new 11/3 mixture, it breaks at middle C and every octave C = to the top. Its a wonderful addition to the rest of the chorus, it adds brightness without screaming.. My most successful mutation is a tierce 13/5. This rank is borrowed from = my celeste which I have tuned flat. The rank is soft anyway, so the effect is subtle and pleasant and being borrowed from an out of tune rank, the tuning is very good. I also take my 12th from a viola rather than the principal, it was just too harsh coming from the = principal, seems to be a reasonable compromise. Hope you are able to work something out... Terry Gibson     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:30 AM Subject: DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - 01/01/03     > DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - Wednesday, January 1, 2003 > > Re: [Residence Organs] Confession. > by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> > Now I've Done It > by "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> > Re: [Residence Organs] Confession. > by <Pipewheezr@aol.com> > Derived Mixtures > by "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> > Re: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > by "Steven Durham" <sdurham11@attbi.com> > Re: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com> > Derived Mixtures to the extreme! > by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> > Pipe Organs > by "wcjharrisville" <wcjharrisville@webryders.net> > Re: [Residence Organs] Derived Mixtures > by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Confession. > From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 10:03:25 -0500 > > At 01:59 PM 12/31/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >O. K. I tried an electric 32' voice from Sonic Creations and well it um > >sounded uhhhhhh REALLY GOOD! I could adjust the pots on the board to = make > >it sound very close to the Hall bourdon. > > I can believe that. At such low frequencies there is very little detail = in > the voice. It's more a slow vibration than anything else, and mixed with > the rest of the real pipe voices should do fine. I plan to go this route > when I'm ready. > > Eric > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Now I've Done It > From: "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 10:32:05 -0500 > > I have wanted a home pipe organ since I was fifteen, and I'm sixty-one > now. Well, now I've gone and done it... > > I have a Moller one manual, 2-rank, four stop organ which I got on eBay > . It was originally in the nun's chapel at St. Ursula's RC church in Mount > Vernon, New York. It is Opus 9939, with the name plate dated 1963. > > The stop tabs indicate: > 8' Rohrflute > 4' Rohrflute > 4' Principal > 2' Principal > > However, the actual specification is: > 8' Rohrflute > 4'Rohrflute > 4' Gemshorn > 2' Gemshorn. > > I have it in my front living room, and am now tuning it. > > I plan to eliminate the one-manual console and control it through my = 1965 > Rodgers 35D 3-manual moving drawknob organ. > > Isn't pipe organ ownership a hoot... (even with the pipes in tune) > > Paul R. Swank > Baltimore, MD. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Confession. > From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:40:54 EST > > > --part1_184.147a24a2.2b448226_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > When I first got the thing to sound it did not sound flutish at all, = more > reed/princepal sound. Then you adjust for flute or stopped flute & = volume. > And of coarse you tune each note. > Have fun. > Dennis > > --part1_184.147a24a2.2b448226_boundary > Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">When I first got the thing to sound it did not = sound flutish at all, more reed/princepal sound. Then you adjust for flute or stopped flute &amp; volume. And of coarse you tune each note.<BR> > Have fun.<BR> > Dennis<BR> > </FONT></HTML> > --part1_184.147a24a2.2b448226_boundary-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Derived Mixtures > From: "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:43:17 -0800 (PST) > > I was reading a post from PIPORG-L today that > contained the following: > > "We maintain an organ that has a "II Zimbel" composed > of 24 pipes (top octave of a 2' and 2-2/3'). It is > wired to repeat every octave...." > > Has anyone done this before? I have an extra 2' > principal rank around that I wouldn't mind > using/experimenting with for such a purpose. > > Maybe that could give our small organ the "crowning > glory"? Sounds too good to be true! Looking forward to > reading your thoughts... > > Paul in Minnesota > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > From: "Steven Durham" <sdurham11@attbi.com> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:44:24 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) > > > Paul: > > I could use the console on my project if you are looking to get rid of = it. > Let me know. > > Steven Durham > Portland, OR > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Residence Organ List > Date: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 7:31:20 AM > To: Residence Organ List > Subject: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > > I have wanted a home pipe organ since I was fifteen, and I'm sixty-one > now. Well, now I've gone and done it... > > I have a Moller one manual, 2-rank, four stop organ which I got on eBay > . It was originally in the nun's chapel at St. Ursula's RC church in = Mount > Vernon, New York. It is Opus 9939, with the name plate dated 1963. > > The stop tabs indicate: > 8' Rohrflute > 4' Rohrflute > 4' Principal > 2' Principal > > However, the actual specification is: > 8' Rohrflute > 4'Rohrflute > 4' Gemshorn > 2' Gemshorn. > > I have it in my front living room, and am now tuning it. > > I plan to eliminate the one-manual console and control it through my = 1965 > Rodgers 35D 3-manual moving drawknob organ. > > Isn't pipe organ ownership a hoot... (even with the pipes in tune) > > Paul R. Swank > Baltimore, MD. > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 14:27:20 -0800 > > "Paul R. Swank" wrote: > > > ... > > I have a Moller one manual, 2-rank, four stop organ which I got on = eBay > > > > I plan to eliminate the one-manual console and control it through my 1965 > > Rodgers 35D 3-manual moving drawknob organ. > > > > Good show! You are well ahead of me: I'm 39+, have a huge 4M Wicks drawknob > console and 6-rank DE chest, but the first pipes to play will likely be the 16' > Bourdon (32 notes) and 16' Lieblich Gedeckt (97 notes). > > Mac Hayes > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Derived Mixtures to the extreme! > From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:29:06 -0600 > > Paul Soulek wrote: > > <"II Zimbel" composed of 24 pipes wired to repeat every octave...."> > > > Has anyone done this before? I have an extra 2' > > principal rank around that I wouldn't mind > > using/experimenting with for such a purpose. > > > Maybe that could give our small organ the "crowning > > glory"? Sounds too good to be true! Looking forward to > > reading your thoughts... > > Well, as they say, "It'd do in a pinch, but don't pinch me!" Obviously, > it'll add some "tinkle-squeek", but that's about all it would add, since > you'll obviously have some serious "holes" in the sound of your > ensemble. > > The composition of a legitimate mixture requires some forethought as to > what its function is going to be. G. Donald Harrison always used to > define his mixtures as being able to "add brilliance to the basses" and > broaden the treble." This suggests that the pitch needs to be high in > the bass end (1-1/3' is a common starting pitch), but then "progresses" > through to lower and lower pitches as one ascends the keyboards. > Progressively lower pitches are introduced. First 2', then 2-2/3', then > 4', and then usually it should jump directly to 8', as the 5-1/3' is a > sub-harmonic from the 16' series, so it sounds like a 16' stop was added > in that octave range. In other words: it is "muddy"! > > Going back to using your suggested range of 2-2/3' and 2' in a "wired" > mixture: presuming you already have those two pitches (or at least the > 2') in the ensemble before ever considering adding a Mixture, then the > mixture really starts too low for the first octave. It would be OK in > the tenor and maybe even the middle octaves, but then the pitches should > be dropping to 4' and 8' pitches by the time one reaches the treble > (4th) and alto (5th) octaves. So you can readily see why this solution > would be flawed, at best. > > Truthfully: Mixture pipes are small, and therefore relatively > inexpensive. If one has enough treble pipes, a second-hand Mixture > could be composed to do the job, if one understands the pitch > relationships involved. It's still not perfect, as the Quintes should > be more subtle than the unison pitches, but that would still be a VAST > improvement over using only 24 pipes! Even 3 octaves with the bass and > top octaves being "shorted", as someone else had previously suggested, > would be a better solution. > > Faithfully, > > -- > Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO > SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. > Pipe Organ Builders > 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 > Kenney, IL 61749-0137 > (217) 944-2454 VOX > (217) 944-2527 FAX > mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL > mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL > mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL > http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Pipe Organs > From: "wcjharrisville" <wcjharrisville@webryders.net> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:58:19 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=3D_NextPart_000_0007_01C2B1E0.E51F0040 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Dr. Swank, I just read your message. I am 64 and installing a small =3D > pipe organ in our home. I've fashoned the casework after the "swallows = =3D > nest" organ in the Cathedral of Metz in France -( reduced by 25% to fit = =3D > the high wall.) The case will be a facade, the pipes in an attic room = =3D > behind it. It just may look better than it sounds! Congrats on your =3D > "giant step forward." Sincerely, W. H. Jost > > ------=3D_NextPart_000_0007_01C2B1E0.E51F0040 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> > <HTML><HEAD> > <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> > <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3D3DGENERATOR> > <STYLE></STYLE> > </HEAD> > <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> > <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Dr. Swank, I just read your =3D > message.&nbsp; I am 64=3D20 > and installing a small pipe organ in our home.&nbsp; I've fashoned the = =3D > casework=3D20 > after the "swallows nest" organ in the Cathedral of Metz in France -( = =3D > reduced by=3D20 > 25% to fit the high wall.)&nbsp; The case will be a facade, the pipes in = =3D > an=3D20 > attic room behind it.&nbsp; It just may look better than it sounds! =3D > Congrats on=3D20 > your "giant step forward."&nbsp; Sincerely,&nbsp; W. H.=3D20 > Jost</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > > ------=3D_NextPart_000_0007_01C2B1E0.E51F0040-- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Derived Mixtures > From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:32:43 -0600 > > >I was reading a post from PIPORG-L today that > >contained the following: > > > >"We maintain an organ that has a "II Zimbel" composed > >of 24 pipes (top octave of a 2' and 2-2/3'). It is > >wired to repeat every octave...." > > > >Has anyone done this before? I have an extra 2' > >principal rank around that I wouldn't mind > >using/experimenting with for such a purpose. > > > >Maybe that could give our small organ the "crowning > >glory"? Sounds too good to be true! Looking forward to > >reading your thoughts... > > Paul > > It does "sound too good to be true" and unfortunately it is too good > to be true, it won't work. If I were in your shoes I would use the > 2' principal rank as it is and meant to be. > > Over the years I have run across a couple of organs with these > derived "Mixtures" and they don't work. All they do is add high > pitched "squeals" all over the keyboard - they don't blend in at all. > Unfortunately during the neo-baroque era many people had the idea > that adding these high-pitched squeals would help make the organ > sound "baroque". It doesn't work that way. > > There is an "art" to specifying a mixture. It needs to be scaled > correctly for the underlying chorus. Using the two octaves of a 2' > and a 2 2/3' will not result in something that is at all scaled > correctly and the breaks will stick out like a sore thumb. > > Before you think about trying to add a mixture my feeling is that you > need to study the purpose and the design of well-conceived mixtures. > The specification of good mixtures is an art. > > Sorry to burst your bubble but I hope this helps. > > David > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > End of DIYAPASON-L Digest > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - 01/01/03 From: "Jonathan Reese" <jreese@digitas.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:10:11 -0500   I was planning on one rank serving as 3 mutations, with independent = drawknobs (2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5). Is this possible from a tuning = perspective? =20   thanks! Jon   -----Original Message----- From: Terry Gibson [mailto:terryg55@nexicom.net] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:52 AM To: Residence Organ List Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - 01/01/03     Regarding the note on derived mixtures, I agree with all of the other = notes saying it wont work. I have a home built 6 ranker and I tried to take unison and fifth principal notes to make up a mixture and it was terrible. Being unified, you cant regulate anything so its too loud and the fifth ranks are out of tune, (because its part of a unison rank). I did break down and buy a new 11/3 mixture, it breaks at middle C and every octave = C to the top. Its a wonderful addition to the rest of the chorus, it adds brightness without screaming.. My most successful mutation is a tierce 13/5. This rank is borrowed from = my celeste which I have tuned flat. The rank is soft anyway, so the effect is = subtle and pleasant and being borrowed from an out of tune rank, the tuning is very good. I also take = my 12th from a viola rather than the principal, it was just too harsh coming from the = principal, seems to be a reasonable compromise. Hope you are able to work something out... Terry Gibson     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:30 AM Subject: DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - 01/01/03     > DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - Wednesday, January 1, 2003 > > Re: [Residence Organs] Confession. > by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> > Now I've Done It > by "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> > Re: [Residence Organs] Confession. > by <Pipewheezr@aol.com> > Derived Mixtures > by "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> > Re: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > by "Steven Durham" <sdurham11@attbi.com> > Re: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com> > Derived Mixtures to the extreme! > by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> > Pipe Organs > by "wcjharrisville" <wcjharrisville@webryders.net> > Re: [Residence Organs] Derived Mixtures > by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Confession. > From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 10:03:25 -0500 > > At 01:59 PM 12/31/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >O. K. I tried an electric 32' voice from Sonic Creations and well it = um > >sounded uhhhhhh REALLY GOOD! I could adjust the pots on the board to = make > >it sound very close to the Hall bourdon. > > I can believe that. At such low frequencies there is very little = detail in > the voice. It's more a slow vibration than anything else, and mixed = with > the rest of the real pipe voices should do fine. I plan to go this = route > when I'm ready. > > Eric > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Now I've Done It > From: "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 10:32:05 -0500 > > I have wanted a home pipe organ since I was fifteen, and I'm sixty-one > now. Well, now I've gone and done it... > > I have a Moller one manual, 2-rank, four stop organ which I got on = eBay > . It was originally in the nun's chapel at St. Ursula's RC church in Mount > Vernon, New York. It is Opus 9939, with the name plate dated 1963. > > The stop tabs indicate: > 8' Rohrflute > 4' Rohrflute > 4' Principal > 2' Principal > > However, the actual specification is: > 8' Rohrflute > 4'Rohrflute > 4' Gemshorn > 2' Gemshorn. > > I have it in my front living room, and am now tuning it. > > I plan to eliminate the one-manual console and control it through my = 1965 > Rodgers 35D 3-manual moving drawknob organ. > > Isn't pipe organ ownership a hoot... (even with the pipes in tune) > > Paul R. Swank > Baltimore, MD. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Confession. > From: <Pipewheezr@aol.com> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:40:54 EST > > > --part1_184.147a24a2.2b448226_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > When I first got the thing to sound it did not sound flutish at all, = more > reed/princepal sound. Then you adjust for flute or stopped flute & = volume. > And of coarse you tune each note. > Have fun. > Dennis > > --part1_184.147a24a2.2b448226_boundary > Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">When I first got the thing to sound it did not = sound flutish at all, more reed/princepal sound. Then you adjust for flute or stopped flute &amp; volume. And of coarse you tune each note.<BR> > Have fun.<BR> > Dennis<BR> > </FONT></HTML> > --part1_184.147a24a2.2b448226_boundary-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Derived Mixtures > From: "Paul Soulek" <pipeorganpaul@yahoo.com> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:43:17 -0800 (PST) > > I was reading a post from PIPORG-L today that > contained the following: > > "We maintain an organ that has a "II Zimbel" composed > of 24 pipes (top octave of a 2' and 2-2/3'). It is > wired to repeat every octave...." > > Has anyone done this before? I have an extra 2' > principal rank around that I wouldn't mind > using/experimenting with for such a purpose. > > Maybe that could give our small organ the "crowning > glory"? Sounds too good to be true! Looking forward to > reading your thoughts... > > Paul in Minnesota > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > From: "Steven Durham" <sdurham11@attbi.com> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:44:24 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) > > > Paul: > > I could use the console on my project if you are looking to get rid of = it. > Let me know. > > Steven Durham > Portland, OR > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Residence Organ List > Date: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 7:31:20 AM > To: Residence Organ List > Subject: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > > I have wanted a home pipe organ since I was fifteen, and I'm sixty-one > now. Well, now I've gone and done it... > > I have a Moller one manual, 2-rank, four stop organ which I got on = eBay > . It was originally in the nun's chapel at St. Ursula's RC church in = Mount > Vernon, New York. It is Opus 9939, with the name plate dated 1963. > > The stop tabs indicate: > 8' Rohrflute > 4' Rohrflute > 4' Principal > 2' Principal > > However, the actual specification is: > 8' Rohrflute > 4'Rohrflute > 4' Gemshorn > 2' Gemshorn. > > I have it in my front living room, and am now tuning it. > > I plan to eliminate the one-manual console and control it through my = 1965 > Rodgers 35D 3-manual moving drawknob organ. > > Isn't pipe organ ownership a hoot... (even with the pipes in tune) > > Paul R. Swank > Baltimore, MD. > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Now I've Done It > From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 14:27:20 -0800 > > "Paul R. Swank" wrote: > > > ... > > I have a Moller one manual, 2-rank, four stop organ which I got on = eBay > > > > I plan to eliminate the one-manual console and control it through my 1965 > > Rodgers 35D 3-manual moving drawknob organ. > > > > Good show! You are well ahead of me: I'm 39+, have a huge 4M Wicks drawknob > console and 6-rank DE chest, but the first pipes to play will likely = be the 16' > Bourdon (32 notes) and 16' Lieblich Gedeckt (97 notes). > > Mac Hayes > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Derived Mixtures to the extreme! > From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:29:06 -0600 > > Paul Soulek wrote: > > <"II Zimbel" composed of 24 pipes wired to repeat every octave...."> > > > Has anyone done this before? I have an extra 2' > > principal rank around that I wouldn't mind > > using/experimenting with for such a purpose. > > > Maybe that could give our small organ the "crowning > > glory"? Sounds too good to be true! Looking forward to > > reading your thoughts... > > Well, as they say, "It'd do in a pinch, but don't pinch me!" = Obviously, > it'll add some "tinkle-squeek", but that's about all it would add, = since > you'll obviously have some serious "holes" in the sound of your > ensemble. > > The composition of a legitimate mixture requires some forethought as = to > what its function is going to be. G. Donald Harrison always used to > define his mixtures as being able to "add brilliance to the basses" = and > broaden the treble." This suggests that the pitch needs to be high in > the bass end (1-1/3' is a common starting pitch), but then = "progresses" > through to lower and lower pitches as one ascends the keyboards. > Progressively lower pitches are introduced. First 2', then 2-2/3', = then > 4', and then usually it should jump directly to 8', as the 5-1/3' is a > sub-harmonic from the 16' series, so it sounds like a 16' stop was = added > in that octave range. In other words: it is "muddy"! > > Going back to using your suggested range of 2-2/3' and 2' in a "wired" > mixture: presuming you already have those two pitches (or at least the > 2') in the ensemble before ever considering adding a Mixture, then the > mixture really starts too low for the first octave. It would be OK in > the tenor and maybe even the middle octaves, but then the pitches = should > be dropping to 4' and 8' pitches by the time one reaches the treble > (4th) and alto (5th) octaves. So you can readily see why this = solution > would be flawed, at best. > > Truthfully: Mixture pipes are small, and therefore relatively > inexpensive. If one has enough treble pipes, a second-hand Mixture > could be composed to do the job, if one understands the pitch > relationships involved. It's still not perfect, as the Quintes should > be more subtle than the unison pitches, but that would still be a VAST > improvement over using only 24 pipes! Even 3 octaves with the bass = and > top octaves being "shorted", as someone else had previously suggested, > would be a better solution. > > Faithfully, > > -- > Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO > SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. > Pipe Organ Builders > 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 > Kenney, IL 61749-0137 > (217) 944-2454 VOX > (217) 944-2527 FAX > mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL > mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL > mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL > http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Pipe Organs > From: "wcjharrisville" <wcjharrisville@webryders.net> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:58:19 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=3D_NextPart_000_0007_01C2B1E0.E51F0040 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Dr. Swank, I just read your message. I am 64 and installing a small = =3D > pipe organ in our home. I've fashoned the casework after the = "swallows =3D > nest" organ in the Cathedral of Metz in France -( reduced by 25% to = fit =3D > the high wall.) The case will be a facade, the pipes in an attic room = =3D > behind it. It just may look better than it sounds! Congrats on your = =3D > "giant step forward." Sincerely, W. H. Jost > > ------=3D_NextPart_000_0007_01C2B1E0.E51F0040 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> > <HTML><HEAD> > <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> > <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3D3DGENERATOR> > <STYLE></STYLE> > </HEAD> > <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> > <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Dr. Swank, I just read your =3D > message.&nbsp; I am 64=3D20 > and installing a small pipe organ in our home.&nbsp; I've fashoned the = =3D > casework=3D20 > after the "swallows nest" organ in the Cathedral of Metz in France -( = =3D > reduced by=3D20 > 25% to fit the high wall.)&nbsp; The case will be a facade, the pipes = in =3D > an=3D20 > attic room behind it.&nbsp; It just may look better than it sounds! = =3D > Congrats on=3D20 > your "giant step forward."&nbsp; Sincerely,&nbsp; W. H.=3D20 > Jost</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > > ------=3D_NextPart_000_0007_01C2B1E0.E51F0040-- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Derived Mixtures > From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:32:43 -0600 > > >I was reading a post from PIPORG-L today that > >contained the following: > > > >"We maintain an organ that has a "II Zimbel" composed > >of 24 pipes (top octave of a 2' and 2-2/3'). It is > >wired to repeat every octave...." > > > >Has anyone done this before? I have an extra 2' > >principal rank around that I wouldn't mind > >using/experimenting with for such a purpose. > > > >Maybe that could give our small organ the "crowning > >glory"? Sounds too good to be true! Looking forward to > >reading your thoughts... > > Paul > > It does "sound too good to be true" and unfortunately it is too good > to be true, it won't work. If I were in your shoes I would use the > 2' principal rank as it is and meant to be. > > Over the years I have run across a couple of organs with these > derived "Mixtures" and they don't work. All they do is add high > pitched "squeals" all over the keyboard - they don't blend in at all. > Unfortunately during the neo-baroque era many people had the idea > that adding these high-pitched squeals would help make the organ > sound "baroque". It doesn't work that way. > > There is an "art" to specifying a mixture. It needs to be scaled > correctly for the underlying chorus. Using the two octaves of a 2' > and a 2 2/3' will not result in something that is at all scaled > correctly and the breaks will stick out like a sore thumb. > > Before you think about trying to add a mixture my feeling is that you > need to study the purpose and the design of well-conceived mixtures. > The specification of good mixtures is an art. > > Sorry to burst your bubble but I hope this helps. > > David > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > End of DIYAPASON-L Digest > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >     DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own=20 Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: borrowed mutations From: "Robert Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:22:01 -0600   I have a large scale dulciana which is available at 8 and 4 on the upper manual and 8, 2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5 on the lower. Say what you want, but I tune = it as a straight unison rank and the mutations work very well with my rohrflute. I think the scale has a lot to due with it. It's not perfect = but I don't hesitate to use the stops. I originally had mutations off the = flute (Wicks style) and HATED IT ! :-)   Robert Eversman, Blue Mounds WI   ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Reese <jreese@digitas.com> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Re: DIYAPASON-L Digest #714 - 01/01/03     > I was planning on one rank serving as 3 mutations, with independent drawknobs (2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5). Is this possible from a tuning perspective? > > thanks! > Jon >      
(back) Subject: 3 Mutations from 1 rank -NOT! From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 09:25:57 -0600   Jonathan Reese wrote: > I was planning on one rank serving as 3 mutations, with independent = drawknobs (2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5). Is this possible from a tuning perspective?   In a word: NO! You're better off having a 2-2/3' and 1-1/3 from the same rank (even if you break back the top octave) and then unifying the 2' from another unison rank.   The 1-3/5' is sometimes derived from a Principal rank, but don't use one rank for three completely different pitches!   And, you REALLY need to learn how to cut and paste!!   Good luck!   Faithfully,   G.A. -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] 3 Mutations from 1 rank -NOT! From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 09:31:56 -0600   C'mon Richard...not everyone has learned to be a cornfield cut-up<g>   jch At 09:25 AM 1/2/03 -0600, you wrote: >And, you REALLY need to learn how to cut and paste!!    
(back) Subject: derived mixtures From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:28:23 EST     --part1_10.2aa1c6a1.2b45d0b7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Posters,   Regarding the question posted by Jonathan Reese: He asked about using a dedicated rank from which to derive the 2 2/3, 2, and 1 3/5.   I'm not a professional, but i'd like to respond with what I've learned = from similar questions I've posted in the past.   1. The mutations should be tuned to perfect intervals with the unison = ranks in order to work properly. While all kinds of things are derived, are the =   results actually what's being sought? 2. One can properly derive the 2 2/3 and 1 1/3 from the same rank since they're an octave apart. The rank can be tuned a perfect 5th from unison, =   and the 2 2/3 and 1 1/3 will be OK. 3. If the rank IS tuned a perfect 5th from unison, then you can no longer =   get the 2' from it, because the 2' must be tuned to unison. 4. If the 2 2/3 and 1 1/3 are derived from a rank that is properly tuned = a perfect 5th from unison, you cannot properly derive the Tierce 1 3/5 from = it, because the 1 3/5 is tuned a perfect 3rd from unison. 5. People keep telling me that these small ranks are pretty cheap. A = small unit chest for a unified 2 2/3 & 1 1/3 to tenor C may be less than 2 1/2 - = 3' long. 6. If you have to unify, it might be better to derive your 2' from = another "like" rank, obtain the 2 2/3 and 1 1/3 from a "dedicated" short rank that = is properly tuned, then get your Tierce 1 3/5 from its own dedicated short = rank (T.C. to the next to the last c =3D 37 pipes).   Thanks. BTW, guys, does it sound like I'm learning anything from the pipechat guys? Keith   --part1_10.2aa1c6a1.2b45d0b7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Posters, <BR> <BR>Regarding the question posted by Jonathan Reese: &nbsp;He asked about = using a dedicated rank from which to derive the 2 2/3, 2, and 1 3/5. <BR> <BR>I'm not a professional, but i'd like to respond with what I've learned = from similar questions I've posted in the past. <BR> <BR>1. &nbsp;The mutations should be tuned to perfect intervals with the = unison ranks in order to work properly. &nbsp;While all kinds of things = are derived, are the results actually what's being sought? <BR>2. &nbsp;One can properly derive the 2 2/3 and 1 1/3 from the same = rank since they're an octave apart. &nbsp;The rank can be tuned a perfect = 5th from unison, and the 2 2/3 and 1 1/3 will be OK. <BR>3. &nbsp;If the rank IS tuned a perfect 5th from unison, then you can = no longer get the 2' from it, because the 2' must be tuned to unison. <BR>4. &nbsp;If the 2 2/3 and 1 1/3 are derived from a rank that is = properly tuned a perfect 5th from unison, you cannot properly derive the = Tierce 1 3/5 from it, because the 1 3/5 is tuned a perfect 3rd from = unison. <BR>5. &nbsp;People keep telling me that these small ranks are pretty = cheap. &nbsp;A small unit chest for a unified 2 2/3 &amp; 1 1/3 to tenor C = may be less than 2 1/2 - 3' long. <BR>6. &nbsp;If you have to unify, it might be better to derive your 2' = from another "like" rank, obtain the 2 2/3 and 1 1/3 from a "dedicated" = short rank that is properly tuned, then get your Tierce 1 3/5 from its own = dedicated short rank (T.C. to the next to the last c =3D 37 pipes). <BR> <BR>Thanks. &nbsp;BTW, guys, does it sound like I'm learning anything from = the pipechat guys? <BR>Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_10.2aa1c6a1.2b45d0b7_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Aeolian Diapason? From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:16:03 -0500   Hi, Rich, and a very Happy New Year to you and your family! I was wondering if you might have in storage (and available) an Aeolian = Diapason. A gentleman who lives about an hour from here is looking for one, apparently to replace damaged (or missing) pipework from an 8-rank Aeolian Duo-Art player organ that he bought recently. He is a player piano technician as well as an organist and choir director, but he doesn't have = a lot of organbuilding experience.   I said I'd ask around, and of course your Organ Parts Museum came to mind!   It would have been fun to have gotten to the AIO in LA, but I just = couldn't afford to make the trip.   Did you come to a resolution of the questions about that relay system that we had been discussion several years ago (for Berne???)? Just curious!   I still have just one rank playing (Estey Clarabella with a 16' Bourdon bottom end); it is *amazing* how versatile that rank is. Maybe this year I'll finally get around to doing some more work on the organ. (HA!)   Larry      
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] Aeolian Diapason? From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:19:38 -0500   Well, that was of course a private message, but if anyone out there does have an available Aeolian Diapason, please let me know! ;-)   Sigh, Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: Stud layout From: "Drew Taylor" <drewt@loritsu.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:55:08 -0500   What is the appropriate way to lay out toe studs? In other words, where = should the sforzando stud be located in relation to general studs according to = the "implied standard"? I only need to install 3 or 4 general studs and an = sfz. in this installation, no pedal divisionals are needed.   Thanks! Happy new year to all DIYapasoners.   -Drew