DIYAPASON-L Digest #737 - Wednesday, January 29, 2003
 
RE: blower problems
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: blower problems
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Blower Motor Replacement
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
RE: blower problems
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
RE: blower problems
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: blower problems
  by "rnewman" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu>
Finding a good motor repair shop (was: blower problems)
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Wide Open Blower
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Re: Finding a good motor repair shop (was: blower problems)
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
RE: blower problems
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Wide Open Blower
  by "ATOS" <atos@stirlingprop.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: blower problems
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Blower Repair Shop
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Finding a good motor repair shop (was: blowerprob
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
RE: [Residence Organs]  RE: blower problems
  by "ATOS" <atos@stirlingprop.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Wide Open Blower
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
RE:  Wide Open Blower
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  relay advice
  by "rnewman" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  relay advice
  by "rnewman" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  relay advice
  by "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
Re: [Residence Organs] Blower stuff,,,,was wide open blower
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Organ insides
  by "Itsnet" <rtadams@itsnet.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE: blower problems
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Wide Open Blower
  by "Gregory Rister" <grandcornet@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: RE: blower problems From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:59:14 -0600   This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C2C7A6.FD107D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"   After 6 months of work, I am almost ready to put air on my Great Division. = In preparation, I have started testing my 2 hp Zephyr blower. Much to my = dismay, I have discovered that the motor seems to be faulty. When the = motor spins up, it gets up to full speed, I hear a click and see arcing. = Usually, the motor will automatically restart and repeat the process. = Occasionally, the motor will successfully start and then seems to run = trouble free. This is without the heater since I have not figured out how = to connect the heater (which is another question for the list). I am = inclined to buy another motor to replace this one which is ancient and = huge >300 lbs.. It is a 2hp 1165 rpm single phase motor. My guess is that = if I find a modern motor with similar specs , it will work fine with no = worries, just that since a modern motor will be smaller, I will have to = adapt the new one to fit where the old one went, and re-attach the piece = on the shaft that connects to the fan assy. any thoughts? Steve Pitts Ardmore Tennessee       ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C2C7A6.FD107D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1">     <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN = class=3D100185614-29012003>After 6 months of work, I am almost ready to put air on my Great Division. In preparation, I have started testing my 2 hp Zephyr blower. Much to my = dismay, I have discovered that the motor seems to be faulty. When the motor spins = up, it gets up to full speed, I hear a click and see arcing. Usually, the motor = will automatically restart and repeat the process. Occasionally, the motor will =   successfully start and then seems to run trouble free. This is without the =   heater since I have not figured out how to connect the heater (which is = another question for the list). I am inclined to buy another motor to replace this = one which is ancient and huge &gt;300 lbs.. It is a 2hp 1165 rpm single phase = motor. My guess is that if I find a modern motor with similar specs , it will = work fine with no worries, just that since a modern motor will be smaller, I will = have to adapt the new one to fit where the old one went, and re-attach the piece = on the shaft that connects to the fan assy.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN = class=3D100185614-29012003>any thoughts?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D100185614-29012003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN = class=3D100185614-29012003>Steve Pitts</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN = class=3D100185614-29012003>Ardmore Tennessee</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN class=3D100185614-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C2C7A6.FD107D10--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: blower problems From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:34:49 -0500   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_462025547= =3D=3D_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"; format=3Dflowed   Steve,   Is the outlet of the blower blocked off? If you're trying to run the = blower with the outlet wide open it will most likely overload the motor. Just a thought.   Eric       At 08:59 AM 1/29/2003 -0600, you wrote: >After 6 months of work, I am almost ready to put air on my Great = Division. >In preparation, I have started testing my 2 hp Zephyr blower. Much to my >dismay, I have discovered that the motor seems to be faulty. When the >motor spins up, it gets up to full speed, I hear a click and see arcing. >Usually, the motor will automatically restart and repeat the process. >Occasionally, the motor will successfully start and then seems to run >trouble free. This is without the heater since I have not figured out how =   >to connect the heater (which is another question for the list). I am >inclined to buy another motor to replace this one which is ancient and >huge >300 lbs.. It is a 2hp 1165 rpm single phase motor. My guess is that =   >if I find a modern motor with similar specs , it will work fine with no >worries, just that since a modern motor will be smaller, I will have to >adapt the new one to fit where the old one went, and re-attach the piece >on the shaft that connects to the fan assy. >any thoughts? > >Steve Pitts >Ardmore Tennessee >   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_462025547= =3D=3D_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <html> Steve,<br><br> Is the outlet of the blower blocked off? If you're trying to run the blower with the outlet wide open it will most likely overload the motor. Just a thought.<br><br> Eric<br><br> <br><br> At 08:59 AM 1/29/2003 -0600, you wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3D3Dcite class=3D3Dcite cite><font face=3D3D"arial" = color=3D3D"#000=3D 0FF">After 6 months of work, I am almost ready to put air on my Great Division. In preparation, I have started testing my 2 hp Zephyr blower. Much to my dismay, I have discovered that the motor seems to be faulty. When the motor spins up, it gets up to full speed, I hear a click and see arcing. Usually, the motor will automatically restart and repeat the process. Occasionally, the motor will successfully start and then seems to run trouble free. This is without the heater since I have not figured out how to connect the heater (which is another question for the list). I am inclined to buy another motor to replace this one which is ancient and huge &gt;300 lbs.. It is a 2hp 1165 rpm single phase motor. My guess is that if I find a modern motor with similar specs , it will work fine with no worries, just that since a modern motor will be smaller, I will have to adapt the new one to fit where the old one went, and re-attach the piece on the shaft that connects to the fan assy.</font><br> <font face=3D3D"arial" color=3D3D"#0000FF">any thoughts?</font><br> &nbsp;<br> <font face=3D3D"arial" color=3D3D"#0000FF">Steve Pitts</font><br> <font face=3D3D"arial" color=3D3D"#0000FF">Ardmore Tennessee</font> <dl> <dd>&nbsp; </dl></blockquote></html>   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_462025547= =3D=3D_.ALT--    
(back) Subject: Blower Motor Replacement From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:37:22 -0500   List,   Steve Pitt's problem does bring up a question - that of finding = replacement motors.   I will have my 2hp 3-phase Woods motor looked at professionally for = cleaning, lubrication, and getting new feed wires. It was running when I = got the organ.   When I've discussed with laypeople about needing to get a phase converter, = I've been asked "why don't you just go get a brand new single-phase = motor?"   A couple months ago, I read thru every single Diyapason archive. I = remember that question arising. As I viewed the website of a company that = sells electric motors, there were a few different categories of motors = depending upon needed hp as well as what kind of loads would be handled by = the motors - including what kind of start-up torque would be needed.   What are the parameters that must be considered if one is trying to = replace a motor? What are the unique properties required of a motor in = powering a blower for a pipe organ? (gee, I could have just posted that = question by itself, right?).   Keith Zimmerman  
(back) Subject: RE: blower problems From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:41:16 -0600   This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C2C7B5.3E5374E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"   yes it is wide open. I am waiting for the last piece of Flexaust to = connect to the reservoir which should arrive from OSI today. In the = meanwhile, I thought it would be good to test the blower. I didnt know = that would be a problem to run it not connected to anything.I hope that is = it, I have done some checking and have been quoted up to $1000 to replace the motor, not = to mention the hassle of matching the fan assy, reconnecting the spindle = adapter , etc. Not only that, but the old motor is BIG and hard to move. Steve Pitts   -----Original Message----- From: Eric Sagmuller [mailto:ess4@psu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:35 AM To: Residence Organ List Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: blower problems     Steve,   Is the outlet of the blower blocked off? If you're trying to run the = blower with the outlet wide open it will most likely overload the motor. = Just a thought.   Eric       At 08:59 AM 1/29/2003 -0600, you wrote:     After 6 months of work, I am almost ready to put air on my Great Division. = In preparation, I have started testing my 2 hp Zephyr blower. Much to my = dismay, I have discovered that the motor seems to be faulty. When the = motor spins up, it gets up to full speed, I hear a click and see arcing. = Usually, the motor will automatically restart and repeat the process. Occasionally, = the motor will successfully start and then seems to run trouble free. This = is without the heater since I have not figured out how to connect the = heater (which is another question for the list). I am inclined to buy = another motor to replace this one which is ancient and huge >300 lbs.. It is a 2hp = 1165 rpm single phase motor. My guess is that if I find a modern motor = with similar specs , it will work fine with no worries, just that since a = modern motor will be smaller, I will have to adapt the new one to fit = where the old one went, and re-attach the piece on the shaft that connects to the = fan assy. any thoughts? Steve Pitts Ardmore Tennessee         ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C2C7B5.3E5374E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1">     <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D810344316-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>yes it is wide open. I am waiting for the last piece of Flexaust to connect to = the reservoir which should arrive from OSI today. In the meanwhile, I thought = it would be good to test the blower. I didnt know that would be a problem to = run it not connected to anything.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN = class=3D810344316-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I hope that is it, I have done some = checking and have been quoted up to $1000 to replace the motor, not to mention the = hassle of matching the fan assy, reconnecting the spindle adapter , etc. Not only = that, but the old motor is BIG and hard to move.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D810344316-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D810344316-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Steve Pitts</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eric Sagmuller [mailto:ess4@psu.edu]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:35 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Residence Organ List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Residence Organs] RE: blower problems<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Steve,<BR><BR>Is the = outlet of the blower blocked off? If you're trying to run the blower with the = outlet wide open it will most likely overload the motor. Just a thought.<BR><BR>Eric<BR><BR><BR><BR>At 08:59 AM 1/29/2003 -0600, you wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite type=3D"cite"><FONT face=3Darial = color=3D#0000ff>After 6 months of work, I am almost ready to put air on my Great Division. = In preparation, I have started testing my 2 hp Zephyr blower. Much to my dismay, I have discovered that the motor seems to be faulty. When the = motor spins up, it gets up to full speed, I hear a click and see arcing. = Usually, the motor will automatically restart and repeat the process. = Occasionally, the motor will successfully start and then seems to run trouble free. = This is without the heater since I have not figured out how to connect the = heater (which is another question for the list). I am inclined to buy another = motor to replace this one which is ancient and huge &gt;300 lbs.. It is a = 2hp 1165 rpm single phase motor. My guess is that if I find a modern motor with =   similar specs , it will work fine with no worries, just that since a = modern motor will be smaller, I will have to adapt the new one to fit where = the old one went, and re-attach the piece on the shaft that connects to the = fan assy.</FONT><BR><FONT face=3Darial color=3D#0000ff>any thoughts?</FONT><BR>&nbsp;<BR><FONT face=3Darial color=3D#0000ff>Steve =   Pitts</FONT><BR><FONT face=3Darial color=3D#0000ff>Ardmore = Tennessee</FONT> <DL> <DD> </DD></DL></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C2C7B5.3E5374E0--  
(back) Subject: RE: blower problems From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:54:58 -0600   This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C2C7B7.28535E10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"   The motor I am having problems with is a Century RS frame 10B 2 HP 1165 = RPM 110/220 25/12.5 amp I was told by a local shop, they could not rebuild it since parts would = not be available. If that is true, thats too bad because it is a neat old = motor. It's really old I.E. 1930s. Steve Pitts   ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C2C7B7.28535E10 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1">     <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D180395716-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D180395716-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>The motor I am having problems with is a Century RS frame = 10B&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2 HP 1165 RPM</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D180395716-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>110/220&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 25/12.5 amp</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D180395716-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D180395716-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>I was told by a local shop, they could not rebuild it&nbsp;since parts would not = be available. If that is true, thats too bad because it is a neat old motor.&nbsp;It's really old I.E. 1930s.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D180395716-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D180395716-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Steve Pitts</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D180395716-29012003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C2C7B7.28535E10--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: blower problems From: "rnewman" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:10:53 -0500     --Apple-Mail-4--1018939423 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed   While we're on the motor topic here is a neat article about Century=3D20 motors I found during a web search. Thought some of you others who=3D20 might find it interesting.   http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/1999/energy/msg00154.html     Steve, the old Century motors are really neat and when working = properly=3D20=3D   can be quite trouble free and also run very quiet! Sounds like your=3D20 might just need a good cleaning. I would do a little more research=3D20 before i'd replace it if i were you. Good luck!     -Randy         On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 11:54 AM, STEVE PITTS wrote:   > =3DA0 > The motor I am having problems with is a Century RS frame = 10B=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 =3D 2 HP=3D20 > 1165 RPM > 110/220=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 25/12.5 amp > =3DA0 > I was told by a local shop, they could not rebuild it=3DA0since = parts=3D20 > would not be available. If that is true, thats too bad because it is = a=3D20=3D   > neat old motor.=3DA0It's really old I.E. 1930s. > =3DA0 > Steve Pitts > =3DA0   --Apple-Mail-4--1018939423 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=3DISO-8859-1   While we're on the motor topic here is a neat article about Century motors I found during a web search. Thought some of you others who might find it interesting.     http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/1999/energy/msg00154.html       Steve, the old Century motors are really neat and when working properly can be quite trouble free and also run very quiet! Sounds like your might just need a good cleaning. I would do a little more research before i'd replace it if i were you. Good luck!       -Randy           On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 11:54 AM, STEVE PITTS wrote:     <excerpt>=3DA0   =3D <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small= =3D er>The motor I am having problems with is a Century RS frame 10B=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 2 = HP =3D 1165 RPM</smaller></color></fontfamily>   =3D <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small= =3D er>110/220=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 25/12.5 amp</smaller></color></fontfamily>   =3DA0   =3D <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small= =3D er>I was told by a local shop, they could not rebuild it=3DA0since parts would not be available. If that is true, thats too bad because it is a neat old motor.=3DA0It's really old I.E. 1930s.</smaller></color></fontfamily>   =3DA0   =3D <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small= =3D er>Steve Pitts</smaller></color></fontfamily>   =3DA0   </excerpt>=3D   --Apple-Mail-4--1018939423--      
(back) Subject: Finding a good motor repair shop (was: blower problems) From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:34:58 -0600   > STEVE PITTS wrote: > I was told by a local shop, they could not rebuild it since parts > would not be available. If that is true, thats too bad because it is a > neat old motor. It's really old I.E. 1930s.   You need to find another motor shop. Preferably an older one in a "bad" part of town, where they really know their stuff.   It'll have to be prolly in a major city where you'll find folks who know their way around these things.   If the place looks old and there's thousands of old motors lying around, that's prolly the place you want. The motor shop we used to take ours to looked like they were barely open, but they really knew their stuff and had BOXES full of the parts needed from the 30's. Still new, but just sitting on the shelves for 70 years!   Good luck!   Faithfully, -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL    
(back) Subject: Wide Open Blower From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:39:47 -0500   List,   I think the link is on the Diyapason website. There is a site that you = can reach on the ATOS site that goes over the rebuilding of a blower and = motor. It did mention that you should not run the blower with no = resistance to the airflow. The pages actually show cutting a piece of = plywood the diameter of the outlet. A hole about 1" in diameter is cut = into the center of this disk. The disk is attached to the blower outlet. = The 1" hole in the disk allows a little air to flow - perhaps what would = flow if playing a single rank, but not enough to overload the motor.   Keith  
(back) Subject: Re: Finding a good motor repair shop (was: blower problems) From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:46:43 -0600   At 12:34 PM 1/29/2003 -0600, Rich wrote: >If the place looks old and there's thousands of old motors lying around, >that's prolly the place you want. The motor shop we used to take ours >to looked like they were barely open, but they really knew their stuff >and had BOXES full of the parts needed from the 30's. Still new, but >just sitting on the shelves for 70 years!   I second Rich's motion for you to find another motor shop, Steve -- and = his description of the right kind of place is excellent.   Another reason for searching out the "old greasy electric motor shop" is the fact that even if they *do* run into the odd old part that is simply "unobtanium"..., they will likely have the means and expertise to = fabricate a replacement themselves...!   BUT FIRST, BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE: Block off the blower outlet before you attempt to run it again!!!!! Organ blowers are *not* happy machines when they are running freely....   Good luck --   Tim Bovard Little Rock AR    
(back) Subject: RE: blower problems From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:55:52 -0600   thanks for the advice and sorry to "bombard" the list. I will try blocking = off the blower tonight.After reading = :http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/1999/energy/msg00154.html '   I am sure that it is a repulsion-induction single phase motor, because of = the description of what the motor does when it starts up.The motor whines = as it comes up to speed, then you hear a "cluck" sound and the motor runs = quiet. What happens with mine , instead of the "cluck " sound, there is = arcing,and then it restarts, but sometimes will run properly, so I think = something is burned out.   Steve Pitts     -----Original Message----- From: Tim Bovard [mailto:tmbovard@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:47 PM To: Residence Organ List Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: Finding a good motor repair shop (was: blower problems)     At 12:34 PM 1/29/2003 -0600, Rich wrote: >If the place looks old and there's thousands of old motors lying around, >that's prolly the place you want. The motor shop we used to take ours >to looked like they were barely open, but they really knew their stuff >and had BOXES full of the parts needed from the 30's. Still new, but >just sitting on the shelves for 70 years!   I second Rich's motion for you to find another motor shop, Steve -- and = his description of the right kind of place is excellent.   Another reason for searching out the "old greasy electric motor shop" is the fact that even if they *do* run into the odd old part that is simply "unobtanium"..., they will likely have the means and expertise to = fabricate a replacement themselves...!   BUT FIRST, BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE: Block off the blower outlet before you attempt to run it again!!!!! Organ blowers are *not* happy machines when they are running freely....   Good luck --   Tim Bovard Little Rock AR     DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Wide Open Blower From: "ATOS" <atos@stirlingprop.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:02:52 -0600   The site with the series on how to rebuild a blower is http://atos.stirlingprop.com/kbase/century/index.htm     -----Original Message----- From: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Kzimmer0817@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:40 PM To: diyapason-l@pipechat.org Subject: [Residence Organs] Wide Open Blower     List,   I think the link is on the Diyapason website. There is a site that you = can reach on the ATOS site that goes over the rebuilding of a blower and = motor. It did mention that you should not run the blower with no resistance to = the airflow. The pages actually show cutting a piece of plywood the diameter = of the outlet. A hole about 1" in diameter is cut into the center of this disk. The disk is attached to the blower outlet. The 1" hole in the disk allows a little air to flow - perhaps what would flow if playing a single rank, but not enough to overload the motor.   Keith   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: blower problems From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:14:08 EST     --part1_b4.17836e7e.2b698200_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/29/2003 1:56:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, steve.pitts@adtran.com writes:   > What happens with mine , instead of the "cluck " sound, there is = arcing,and > then it restarts, but sometimes will run properly, so I think something = is > burned out. > >   Steve- I'd almost bet the farm that the situation you have with that = Century is a gummed up "necklace",,,the portion of the shorting device that shorts =   all the commutator bars from centrifugal force, acting on a "governor" = sort of device. These necklace segments can be cleaned and reshaped to a = degree with a file (they are copper). The motor has to come apart completely to = get the necklace out. Necklace problems exhibit the exact symptoms you have described. Take the motor apart and see what you can do, you have nothing = to lose. Good Luck, ---Roc L V Rockafellow New Jersey   --part1_b4.17836e7e.2b698200_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 1/29/2003 1:56:52 PM Eastern = Standard Time, steve.pitts@adtran.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">What happens with mine , = instead of the "cluck " sound, there is arcing,and then it restarts, but = sometimes will run properly, so I think something is burned out.<BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> Steve-&nbsp; I'd almost bet the farm that the situation you have with that = Century is a gummed up "necklace",,,the portion of the shorting device = that shorts all the commutator bars from centrifugal force, acting on a = "governor" sort of device. These necklace segments&nbsp; can be cleaned = and reshaped to a degree with a file (they are copper).&nbsp; The motor = has to come apart completely to get the necklace out. Necklace problems = exhibit the exact symptoms you have described. Take the motor apart and = see what you can do, you have nothing to lose. <BR> Good Luck, <BR> ---Roc<BR> L V Rockafellow<BR> New Jersey <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_b4.17836e7e.2b698200_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Blower Repair Shop From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:38:18 -0500   Guys,   I haven't been there, but I can relate to Rich's recommendation. It's = kinda like going to a doctor who's desk is completely neat and organized. = At least, that's what I try to convince myself of...   Keith Zimmerman, M.D.  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Finding a good motor repair shop (was: blowerproblems) From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:11:26 +1300   Good advice, Richard, for just about anything!   My radio in my front room is an AWA thing with a 12-inch speaker, about a dozen huge valves with wires out the top, etc. It was made in 1933 I = bought it in 1968 for NZ$6. When it needed a minor repair about 15 years ago, I found a shop that repairs only old valve radios and amplifiers, tape recorders and the like. He won't have a transistor in the place. No = repairs needed sinice his doing over.   And yes, his shop is in a poor suburb in a grotty old shop full of what looks like junk but is in fact gold.   Ross -----Original Message----- From: Richard Schneider <arpschneider@starband.net> To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Date: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:35 AM Subject: [Residence Organs] Finding a good motor repair shop (was: blowerproblems)     >> STEVE PITTS wrote: > >> I was told by a local shop, they could not rebuild it since parts >> would not be available. If that is true, thats too bad because it is a >> neat old motor. It's really old I.E. 1930s. > >You need to find another motor shop. Preferably an older one in a "bad" >part of town, where they really know their stuff. > >It'll have to be prolly in a major city where you'll find folks who know >their way around these things. > >If the place looks old and there's thousands of old motors lying around, >that's prolly the place you want. The motor shop we used to take ours >to looked like they were barely open, but they really knew their stuff >and had BOXES full of the parts needed from the 30's. Still new, but >just sitting on the shelves for 70 years! > >Good luck! > >Faithfully, >-- >Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO >SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. >Pipe Organ Builders >41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 >Kenney, IL 61749-0137 >(217) 944-2454 VOX >(217) 944-2527 FAX >mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL >mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL >mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL >http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] RE: blower problems From: "ATOS" <atos@stirlingprop.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:44:28 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_002F_01C2C79C.8AFAC0F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   When the motor goes from the "start" phase to "Run", the shorting bars = must touch at four points because this effectively closes a circuit within the rotor windings to make it a self-generating device. On start-up it draws current from the line but once it is running, not only must the starting voltage be removed but the four points where it was being applied must now be shorted together (2 and 2) to close an internal circuit in the rotor. = If this doesn't happen, the rotor's magnetism is not there and the motor = looses horsepower or stops completely.   The usual causes, other than a bad rotor winding, would be worn carbon brushes, a bad commutator surface or mis-alignment of the brush holders = so that the brushes do not crush tightly against the commutator.   I have used a motor shop in this area (louisiana) where they are experts = in Century repulsion start motors. If you need info to contact them, please email me privately and I will get you a phone number and contact. We used them to trouble-shoot an identical problem on the blower for the ROWF = museum Wurlitzer in Jackson, La. and the guy knew immediately what the trouble = was and repaired it satisfactorily. -----Original Message----- From: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org]On = Behalf Of GRSCoLVR@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:14 PM To: DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: blower problems     In a message dated 1/29/2003 1:56:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, steve.pitts@adtran.com writes:     What happens with mine , instead of the "cluck " sound, there is arcing,and then it restarts, but sometimes will run properly, so I think something is burned out.         Steve- I'd almost bet the farm that the situation you have with that Century is a gummed up "necklace",,,the portion of the shorting device = that shorts all the commutator bars from centrifugal force, acting on a "governor" sort of device. These necklace segments can be cleaned and reshaped to a degree with a file (they are copper). The motor has to come apart completely to get the necklace out. Necklace problems exhibit the exact symptoms you have described. Take the motor apart and see what you = can do, you have nothing to lose. Good Luck, ---Roc L V Rockafellow New Jersey   ------=3D_NextPart_000_002F_01C2C79C.8AFAC0F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D703413519-29012003><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>When=3D20 the motor goes from the "start" phase to "Run", the shorting bars must =3D touch at=3D20 four points because this effectively closes a circuit within the rotor =3D windings=3D20 to make it a self-generating device. On start-up it draws current from =3D the line=3D20 but once it is running, not only must the starting voltage be removed =3D but the=3D20 four points where it was being applied must now be shorted together (2 =3D and 2) to=3D20 close an internal circuit in the rotor. If this doesn't happen, the =3D rotor's=3D20 magnetism is not there and the motor looses horsepower or stops=3D20 completely.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D703413519-29012003><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D703413519-29012003><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>The=3D20 usual causes, other than a bad rotor winding, would be worn carbon =3D brushes, a=3D20 bad commutator surface&nbsp;&nbsp;or mis-alignment of the brush holders = =3D so that=3D20 the brushes do not crush tightly against the commutator. =3D </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D703413519-29012003><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D703413519-29012003><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>I have=3D20 used a motor shop in this area (louisiana) where they are experts in =3D Century=3D20 repulsion start motors. If you need info to contact them, please email =3D me=3D20 privately and I will get you a phone number and contact. We used them to = =3D   trouble-shoot an identical problem on the blower for the ROWF museum =3D Wurlitzer=3D20 in Jackson, La. and the guy knew immediately what the trouble was and =3D repaired=3D20 it satisfactorily. &nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=3D3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3D3Dltr align=3D3Dleft><FONT =3D face=3D3DTahoma=3D20 size=3D3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =3D DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org=3D20 [mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org]<B>On Behalf Of=3D20 </B>GRSCoLVR@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 29, 2003 = 1:14=3D20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =3D [Residence=3D20 Organs] RE: blower problems<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT=3D20 face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D3D0 face=3D3DArial size=3D3D4 =3D FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">In a=3D20 message dated 1/29/2003 1:56:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,=3D20 steve.pitts@adtran.com writes:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=3D20 TYPE=3D3D"CITE"></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =3D #ffffff" face=3D3DArial=3D20 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">What happens with = mine =3D , instead of=3D20 the "cluck " sound, there is arcing,and then it restarts, but =3D sometimes will=3D20 run properly, so I think something is burned=3D20 out.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#000000 = =3D size=3D3D4=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>Steve-&nbsp; I'd almost bet the farm that the = =3D situation=3D20 you have with that Century is a gummed up "necklace",,,the portion of = =3D the=3D20 shorting device that shorts all the commutator bars from centrifugal =3D force,=3D20 acting on a "governor" sort of device. These necklace segments&nbsp; =3D can be=3D20 cleaned and reshaped to a degree with a file (they are copper).&nbsp; = =3D The=3D20 motor has to come apart completely to get the necklace out. Necklace =3D problems=3D20 exhibit the exact symptoms you have described. Take the motor apart =3D and see=3D20 what you can do, you have nothing to lose. <BR>Good Luck, =3D <BR>---Roc<BR>L V=3D20 Rockafellow<BR>New Jersey =3D <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_002F_01C2C79C.8AFAC0F0--    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Wide Open Blower From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:41:13 -0800   >List, > >I think the link is on the Diyapason website. There is a site that >you can reach on the ATOS site that goes over the rebuilding of a >blower and motor. It did mention that you should not run the blower >with no resistance to the airflow. The pages actually show cutting >a piece of plywood the diameter of the outlet. A hole about 1" in >diameter is cut into the center of this disk. The disk is attached >to the blower outlet. The 1" hole in the disk allows a little air >to flow - perhaps what would flow if playing a single rank, but not >enough to overload the motor. > >Keith   I could be wrong but it seems to make sense to cover the outlet. Let's see: the motor proabably has a starting mode that switches out at full speed. The sparking starts because you are still drawing this start-up current while spinning at high speed. However, if covered then the motor would start drawing a heavy current when pushing against the dead-end windline while not up to full speed yet, at that point the current would probably trip the starter cut-out to go into a run mode.   So without that resistance, the trip out mechanism does not function correctly and never drops the startmode.   Comments, anyone?   John V  
(back) Subject: RE: Wide Open Blower From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:53:58 -0600   John good theory. I will try it out tonight.   list thanks for the helpful info   Steve Pitts   -----Original Message----- From: John Vanderlee [mailto:jovanderlee@vassar.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:41 PM To: Residence Organ List Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Wide Open Blower     >List, > >I think the link is on the Diyapason website. There is a site that >you can reach on the ATOS site that goes over the rebuilding of a >blower and motor. It did mention that you should not run the blower >with no resistance to the airflow. The pages actually show cutting >a piece of plywood the diameter of the outlet. A hole about 1" in >diameter is cut into the center of this disk. The disk is attached >to the blower outlet. The 1" hole in the disk allows a little air >to flow - perhaps what would flow if playing a single rank, but not >enough to overload the motor. > >Keith   I could be wrong but it seems to make sense to cover the outlet. Let's see: the motor proabably has a starting mode that switches out at full speed. The sparking starts because you are still drawing this start-up current while spinning at high speed. However, if covered then the motor would start drawing a heavy current when pushing against the dead-end windline while not up to full speed yet, at that point the current would probably trip the starter cut-out to go into a run mode.   So without that resistance, the trip out mechanism does not function correctly and never drops the startmode.   Comments, anyone?   John V   DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own Residence Pipe Organs. HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] relay advice From: "rnewman" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:47:36 -0500     --Apple-Mail-6--1005936433 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII; format=3Dflowed       what relay did you end up going with? inquiring minds want to know!   -randy       On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 08:30 PM, Mollerpo@aol.com wrote:   > I have come to the conclusion, with the help of several beatings that > I must convert to SS relays. Does anyone have any advice on which > companies to go with? I need someone willing to work directly with me, > not through a dealer. > Thanks, > Brian >   --Apple-Mail-6--1005936433 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=3DUS-ASCII         what relay did you end up going with? inquiring minds want to know!     -randy         On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 08:30 PM, Mollerpo@aol.com wrote:     <excerpt><bold><fontfamily><param>Arial Rounded MT = Bold</param><color><param>8080,0000,4040</param><smaller>I have come to the conclusion, with the help of several beatings that I must convert to SS relays. Does anyone have any advice on which companies to go with? I need someone willing to work directly with me, not through a dealer.   Thanks,   Brian</smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>     </excerpt> --Apple-Mail-6--1005936433--      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] relay advice From: "rnewman" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:53:44 -0500     --Apple-Mail-8--1005568696 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII; format=3Dflowed   oops! mean that to be a private message. i hate when i do that!   -r       On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 03:47 PM, rnewman wrote:   > > > what relay did you end up going with? inquiring minds want to know! > > -randy > > > > On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 08:30 PM, Mollerpo@aol.com wrote: > >> I have come to the conclusion, with the help of several beatings that >> I must convert to SS relays. Does anyone have any advice on which >> companies to go with? I need someone willing to work directly with >> me, not through a dealer. >> Thanks, >> Brian >>   --Apple-Mail-8--1005568696 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=3DUS-ASCII   oops! mean that to be a private message. i hate when i do that!     -r         On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 03:47 PM, rnewman wrote:     <excerpt>     what relay did you end up going with? inquiring minds want to know!     -randy         On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 08:30 PM, Mollerpo@aol.com wrote:     <excerpt><bold><fontfamily><param>Arial Rounded MT = Bold</param><color><param>807F,0000,403F</param><smaller>I have come to the conclusion, with the help of several beatings that I must convert to SS relays. Does anyone have any advice on which companies to go with? I need someone willing to work directly with me, not through a dealer.   Thanks,   Brian</smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>     </excerpt></excerpt> --Apple-Mail-8--1005568696--      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] relay advice From: "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:25:11 -0600   HI BRIAN, I have a ss relay from Peterson's. They are very helpful, over the phone even, and try to make things flow smoothly. Thanks. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: rnewman To: Residence Organ List Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] relay advice     oops! mean that to be a private message. i hate when i do that!   -r       On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 03:47 PM, rnewman wrote:         what relay did you end up going with? inquiring minds want to know!   -randy       On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 08:30 PM, Mollerpo@aol.com wrote:     I have come to the conclusion, with the help of several beatings that I = must convert to SS relays. Does anyone have any advice on which companies to go with? I need someone willing to work directly with me, not through a = dealer. Thanks, Brian      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Blower stuff,,,,was wide open blower From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:33:14 EST     --part1_ad.29eda05b.2b69beba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi listers--- In my book,,,it definitely makes sense to cover the outlet of the = blower. If this is not done,,,,,the churning, moving air at full volume and non = stop causes the motor to be on overload amperage, which will trip it out in a short time. IF the blower is starting up,,and is still on the repulsion mode of = starting, it either cant get enuf speed up to positively switch over to Induction run,,,or "hunts" between the 2 modes, have experimented with this quite a = bit over the years. With the blower outlet stopped off or nearly so,,,the = current rating on the motor is WAYYYY down, by actual ammeter tests, I assume = because the wind has taken on a "non moving" or static flow inside the blower. Just some thoughts. ---Roc New Jersey   --part1_ad.29eda05b.2b69beba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Hi listers---<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp; In my book,,,it definitely makes sense to cover the outlet of = the blower. If this is not done,,,,,the churning, moving air at full = volume and non stop causes the motor to be on overload amperage, which = will trip it out in a short time. <BR> IF the blower is starting up,,and is still on the repulsion mode of = starting, it either cant get enuf speed up to positively switch over to = Induction run,,,or "hunts" between the 2 modes, have experimented with = this quite a bit over the years. With the blower outlet stopped off or = nearly so,,,the current rating on the motor is WAYYYY down, by actual = ammeter tests, I assume because the wind has taken on a "non moving" or = static flow inside the blower. <BR> Just some thoughts. <BR> ---Roc<BR> New Jersey </FONT></HTML>   --part1_ad.29eda05b.2b69beba_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Organ insides From: "Itsnet" <rtadams@itsnet.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:40:38 -0700   Listers,   What is that orange colored paint used all over the inside of my M=F6ller Artiste? It is on the wooden pipes, shutters and racks, too. It is not ju= st orange shellac, is it? It seems almost opaque, yet slightly translucent. = And very orange. Just wondering, as I am adding wooden parts inside and want them to match the loverly decor.   Thanks, Richard (format set to plain text now) Adams      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: blower problems From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:52:23 EST     --part1_42.34590ea2.2b69c337_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/29/2003 5:49:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, atos@stirlingprop.com writes:   > When the motor goes from the "start" phase to "Run", the shorting bars = must > touch at four points because this effectively closes a circuit within = the > rotor windings to make it a self-generating device. On start-up it draws =   > current from the line but once it is running, not only must the starting =   > voltage be removed but the four points where it was being applied must = now > be shorted together (2 and 2) to close an internal circuit in the rotor. = If > this doesn't happen, the rotor's magnetism is not there and the motor > looses horsepower or stops completely. > >   The rotor of a Century motor does not receive any current from the "outside"---- it is magnetically inducted current IN the rotor when the brushes are on the commutator, which allows "turning" to begin. This = current is induced from the fields of the motor only. The brushes only make successively moving "connections" allowing magnetic structure to keep the rotor turning and speeding it up. When the brush shifting mechanism lifts the brushes each "moved"- necklace =   "pearl", strung on a wire, - shorts out one bar to all the others, effectively making the rotor assembly into a squirrel cage rotor,,,,hence = the name, Repulsion start, Induction run motor. Or, at least thats the way I learned it many years ago,,, Incidentally, all of Phil Underwood's fine pictures online referenced = earlier today point all of this out very clearly. Cheers, ---Roc L V Rockafellow New Jersey   --part1_42.34590ea2.2b69c337_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 1/29/2003 5:49:03 PM Eastern = Standard Time, atos@stirlingprop.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#0000ff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">When the motor goes from = the "start" phase to "Run", the shorting bars must touch at four points = because this effectively closes a circuit within the rotor windings to = make it a self-generating device. On start-up it draws current from the = line but once it is running, not only must the starting voltage be removed = but the four points where it was being applied must now be shorted = together (2 and 2) to close an internal circuit in the rotor. If this = doesn't happen, the rotor's magnetism is not there and the motor looses = horsepower or stops completely.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> &nbsp; <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> The rotor of a Century motor does not receive any current from the = "outside"---- it is magnetically inducted current IN the rotor when the = brushes are on the commutator, which allows "turning" to begin.&nbsp; This = current is induced from the fields of the motor only.&nbsp; The brushes = only make successively moving "connections" allowing magnetic structure to = keep the rotor&nbsp; turning and speeding it up.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR> When the brush shifting mechanism lifts the brushes each "moved"- necklace = "pearl", strung on a wire, - shorts out one bar to all the others, = effectively making the rotor assembly into a squirrel cage rotor,,,,hence = the name, Repulsion start, Induction run motor. <BR> Or, at least thats the way I learned it many years ago,,,<BR> Incidentally, all of Phil Underwood's fine pictures online referenced = earlier today point all of this out very clearly. <BR> Cheers, <BR> ---Roc<BR> L V Rockafellow<BR> New Jersey </FONT></HTML>   --part1_42.34590ea2.2b69c337_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Wide Open Blower From: "Gregory Rister" <grandcornet@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:46:13 -0800   Hi List,   I think I came in on this one a little late, but I strongly endorse the advice of those who warn "DO NOT RUN AN ORGAN BLOWER WITHOUT A LOAD!!!" They aren't really made to do that, and if you think about it, an organ blower always sees a load unless there's something very wrong with the winding system.   We were consulted on an enormous 10 hp Kinetic blower which was gradually falling apart. The wood housing had been patched (badly) and there were more drywall screws run into the thing than I could count. We recommended replacement. Well, that was too much money for them at the time, so they continued to use it. Apparently the leaking at the blower itself = continued to increase, and a year or so later, it finally blew off one of the patch plates during a morning service. The organ lost wind and no one knew what happened. We were called out again to investigate. What a stench! The motor was fried to a crisp. And we discovered that someone had used 100 amp fuses to protect it, not that anything could have with that large opening in the housing.   Don't run an organ blower without a closed winding system, or without blocking the outlet! (Unless you really like to buy new motors). . .   Greg Rister The Pipe Organ Craftsmen Pomona, California   > [Original Message] > From: John Vanderlee <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> > To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> > Date: 01/29/2003 2:41:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Wide Open Blower > > >List, > > > >I think the link is on the Diyapason website. There is a site that > >you can reach on the ATOS site that goes over the rebuilding of a > >blower and motor. It did mention that you should not run the blower > >with no resistance to the airflow. The pages actually show cutting > >a piece of plywood the diameter of the outlet. A hole about 1" in > >diameter is cut into the center of this disk. The disk is attached > >to the blower outlet. The 1" hole in the disk allows a little air > >to flow - perhaps what would flow if playing a single rank, but not > >enough to overload the motor. > > > >Keith > > I could be wrong but it seems to make sense to cover the outlet. > Let's see: the motor proabably has a starting mode that switches out > at full speed. The sparking starts because you are still drawing > this start-up current while spinning at high speed. However, if > covered then the motor would start drawing a heavy current when > pushing against the dead-end windline while not up to full speed yet, > at that point the current would probably trip the starter cut-out to > go into a run mode. > > So without that resistance, the trip out mechanism does not function > correctly and never drops the startmode. > > Comments, anyone? > > John V > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org       --- Gregory Rister --- grandcornet@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.