DIYAPASON-L Digest #738 - Thursday, January 30, 2003
 
Re: blower problems
  by "Jon Fick" <jon@VermontFicks.org>
Orange Paint on Artiste?
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
RE: progress report/stuck notes
  by "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com>
[Residence Organs]  RE: progress report/stuck notes
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Fish Glue: DO NOT USE FOR ORGAN WORK (unless you want to do it TWICE!)!
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
cyphering pipes on EP chest
  by "danielwh" <danielwh@ns.sympatico.ca>
Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue
  by <AL12TONE@aol.com>
3-phase converter for 1hp motor
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue
  by "Alwyn V. H. Farey-Jones" <avhfj@direcpc.com>
Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue (There is NO comparison!)
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  RE: progress report/stuck notes
  by "Gregory Rister" <grandcornet@earthlink.net>
RE: [Residence Organs]  Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue
  by "Gregory Rister" <grandcornet@earthlink.net>
Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: blower problems From: "Jon Fick" <jon@VermontFicks.org> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:40:24 -0500   From my own experience, I believe all the posts regarding the Century = motors are correct, the clicks, clunks, covered outlets, sticking necklace, etc, all apply. I tried to repair a 1/2 HP Century several times, including calling local motor shops. I finally brought it to the dumpster.   I'm not aware of replacement motors that have a shaft as long as the = Century (16" or so.) So, against the better wisdom of the fine collection of = talent on this email list, I replaced it with a 3/4HP furnace blower motor and a countershaft assembly that I created. Photos are at http://www.vermontficks.org/blowmod.htm   The Century is indeed a very quiet motor when it's in run mode; my replacement is not as quiet. Belt replacement will have to be done periodically. Setscrews need to be monitored or double-screwed. My solution is not for everyone, for sure, but for my own church it was = exactly what we needed to have a motivator rather than a frustrator.   It was a sad thing to bring the Century to the dumpster. I couldn't even give it away. Not to a motor shop, not to anyone on this list, etc.   Jon Fick Westford, Vermont      
(back) Subject: Orange Paint on Artiste? From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:04:35 -0600   Orange Paint? My 1936 Artiste has nothing resembling orange paint inside--just the standard clear finish which does impart a slightly yellow/orange tint--it's the same color as I've seen in 90% of the organs I've seen. Somebody (Aeolian?) used a mustard yellow ochre paint for wood pipes, and was it Austin who painted interior pipes black so they wouldn't show when the swell box was open?   Dennis Steckley   Ich liebe meine Katzen __-___________________   Listers,   What is that orange colored paint used all over the inside of my = M=F6ller Artiste? Thanks, Richard (format set to plain text now) Adams        
(back) Subject: RE: progress report/stuck notes From: "STEVE PITTS" <steve.pitts@adtran.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:24:11 -0600       The saga continues. I got my last piece of Flexaust in yesterday and = connected it to the blower. Now the air system for the Great division is = completely connected. I started the blower several times and never saw any = arcing, so the theory that the arcing was caused by running it with no = load seems to make sense. So, I turned on the blower and put pressure on = the system. Very quickly I noticed to my dismay, that there seemed to be = about 50 stuck notes creating a shrill, deafening cacophony. I was = surprised at this since before populating the pipework on the chests and = airing up the system, I "tested" each DE magnet in the chests with a 12 = volt battery just to make sure they seemed to open and shut normally. I = might add that the stuck notes occur with no power applied, just air. I = feel sure that I am putting to much pressure on the chests since my Dwyer = gauge indicated 6.5 inches on one toe hole even with some 3 inch ducts = disconnected from the chests and leaking air into the room. The c   Steve Pitts  
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] RE: progress report/stuck notes From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:16:53 -0600   At 9:24 AM -0600 01/30/03, STEVE PITTS wrote: > So, I turned on the blower and put pressure on the system. Very >quickly I noticed to my dismay, that there seemed to be about 50 >stuck notes creating a shrill, deafening cacophony. I was surprised >at this since before populating the pipework on the chests and >airing up the system, I "tested" each DE magnet in the chests with a >12 volt battery just to make sure they seemed to open and shut >normally.   Steve   ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, before putting any pipes on a chest that has been open make sure that you BLOW out the toe holes. Little bits of dust and dirt can settle on the valves and cause cyphers. I really doubt that the higher wind pressure is causing the cyphers but more than likely dirt in the system.   I don't know if you have the relay/console connected up but if you do - take the pipes off the chest, vacuum it WELL and then go up and down the keyboard blowing notes by the handful. Do this several times and then vacuum AGAIN! finally then put the pipes in place. This is especially important if you have any reed stops on a chest as the dust/dirt will cause all sorts of problems with them.   David  
(back) Subject: Fish Glue: DO NOT USE FOR ORGAN WORK (unless you want to do it TWICE!)! From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:31:55 -0600   > wcjharrisville wrote: > I am sure the sticky (pun intended) subject of hot glue vs. other > glues has been discussed before. I just don't know where to find it. > I know some of those who use hot glue swear by it for gluing most > everything and dispise anything else. However, the commercial glues > must have their place in the scheme of things. On all my visits to > the C.B. Fisk Organ Company open houses I noticed that their > windchests are assembled using yellow glue. I really want to know > more - the advantages and disadvantages of using different glues.   At the risk of repeating myself, I will re-iterate about the Fish Glue failure problems I had last year due to high humidity for those who did not catch this the first time. I have subsequently learned from others who are "in the know" that the product is really not designed for pipe organ applications.   Further to that, there was an excellent article by Robert Ridgeway on the TO List that I'm re-posting to this forum with due credit given for the authorship:   > We do use fish glue for some applications in the restoration of > automatic > musical instruments but the OVERWHELMING product we use is > hot hide > glue. We buy it directly from the largest manufacturer in the > country: > > Milligan & Higgins > Maple Avenue P.O. Box 506 > Johnstown, NY 12095 (518) 762-4638 > > You must specify the 2X-High Clarity Hide Glue. It is sold ONLY in > 50# > fiber drums for around $3.00 per pound. It is finest hot glue we > have ever > used and find that it works for leather, rubber cloth, gluing wood > back > together, etc. It has excellent tack, low odor, and tremendous > strength > and you can remove it in the future with hot water and/or steam. > > I cannot over stress the value of using a product like hide glue for > proper > restorations. Remember, we are restoring not only for the present > but for > the future and as one who has had to deal with previous white glue > "restorations" on instruments, it is vital to think about the poor > individual who will have to tackle all these machines in another 50- > 75 > years. I cannot think of any legitimate reason for not using hot hide > glue > for all restoration work. The fish glue is useful for a quick fix "in = the > field" since it can be carried in a bottle in a toolbox but I would > never > consider rebuilding an entire instrument using it. Besides, the cost > would > become prohibitive as compared to hot hide glue if you were also to > attempt > to use it for releathering regulators, trems, winkers, etc. We make > up a > fresh pot once a week and keep the glue pot liner in the refrigerator > when > not in use to maintain it. The first thing you want to do is discard the =   > wire hoop that comes with most glue pots and cut a piece of > hardwood dowel > to span the pot liner near the top. You can use this to wipe your > brushes > against and it, unlike the wire hoop, will not react with the glue and > water. It is vital to keep the glue pot covered at all times except > when > you are using it. The glue will evaporate and become far too thick > in a > very short time if you do not. It is also important to remember to > hydrate > the glue when making a new pot. You mix up the dried glue in a > flexible > container (such as an old quart cottage cheese container) with the > proper > amount of clean cool (NOT hot) water and let it absorb the water. It > will, > after a couple of hours, end up looking very much like moist > oatmeal. Only > THEN do you place this hydrated glue into the glue pot to melt. By > properly preparing the glue in this way you nearly double the > holding power > of the product, according to the experts at Milligan & Higgins and > borne > out by our own experiments. Remember, hot hide glue has been > used for > centuries for fine furniture, pipe organ pneumatics, etc. and some > things > just can't be improved upon. > > Sincerely, > > Robert Ridgeway, Curator > Sanfilippo Collection       > Will   -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL    
(back) Subject: cyphering pipes on EP chest From: "danielwh" <danielwh@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:08:13 -0400   I have been working on the small 30 note Aeolian lever arm windchest. It was without a bottom board. I made a bottom board and drilled the proper channels in it and installed magnets. Problem is, Now that I have installed the bottom board and add wind to it, = I have a few notes that speak immediatly. And these notes speak even if I unhook the wind and blow in the intake of chest with my own wind.. Question is What is wrong Is it possible that the magnet which supposed to route an equal preassure through to the leather poach at the opposite end of the pallet lever isnt getting a sufficient amount of wind to keep it inflated when magnet is not exhausiting it If so, What do I do?? and is there something else that could be wrong? Danielwh       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003    
(back) Subject: Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:45:08 -0500   I appreciate Richard's passion for the hide glue - or, better, for doing = the job right the first time. For those of us who are piddling around on = our own instruments, it probably doesn't matter what we use. What matters = is how much trouble we want to put ourselves thru doing repeat "patch = jobs" or undoing improperly done jobs later.   For the professionals, who often live far away from their Opuses (or = opi?), a quick "patch job" may precipitate an angry call back at a very = inconvenient time. In the operating room, when tying off an artery, we = often tie a couple extra knots in the suture so we can sleep better at = night.   The follow question(s) regards hide glue, not fish glue. There has been = mention of a premixed liquid hide glue. The profs have said that it's not = quite as strong as the powdered kind that you have to cook up.... could = the liquid version be good enough depending upon the particular = application?   My reservoir, at the time of purchase a few months ago, was fine. The = leathers in my 3 rank pitman chest (1972) look great. Accidentally, I = tore one of the pipe valve pouches. Dave Heimer kindly gave me a piece of = pouch leather with which to fix it. While, I understand that one would = definitely want to cook up a batch of hide glue for rebuilding a = reservoir, would a small bottle of liquid hide glue perform well for the = repair of a valve pouch? I'm thinking that there's much less stress on = the pouch than on the corners of the ribs of the reservoir. Of course, = during the course of putting the pouch rails back into the chest and doing = the same with the 5 rank chest, I may tear a few more pouches. Maybe I'll = end up needing more hide glue.   Anyway, how does one go about obtaining small quantities of this stuff if = the cooked up stuff is really required?   Thanks, Keith  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue From: <AL12TONE@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:46:58 EST   FYI, The plural of opus is opera. :-) Al Blatter  
(back) Subject: 3-phase converter for 1hp motor From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:19:00 -0800   I have a nice Spencer c.1955 which is a 1hp, 3-phase. I'd like to run it on 220VAC single phase. I know that the 'static' converters are cheaper, but would a transformer converter be able to handle the load of an organ blower?   Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA http://home.jps.net/~rrloesch/index.htm   Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professional engineers built the Titanic.      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue From: "Alwyn V. H. Farey-Jones" <avhfj@direcpc.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:29:51 -0500   "Opus", as applied to a composition, often seems to be abbreviated "Op." (eg Beethoven, Sonata Op. 111). Why is the plural sometimes abbreviated "Opp."?   .. . . . . AFJ   ----- Original Message ----- From: <AL12TONE@aol.com> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue     > FYI, The plural of opus is opera. :-) > Al Blatter > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue (There is NO comparison!) From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:40:22 -0600   Kzimmer0817@aol.com wrote: > I appreciate Richard's passion for the hide glue - or, better, for doing = the job right the first time.   It's the only way to do the job -either as a professional or an amateur. One day, someone will THANK you if you do it right!   > For those of us who are piddling around on our own instruments, it > probably doesn't matter what we use.   I disagree, and you should know better than to say that! You yourself have now laid claim to an instrument that out-lived its previous owner, and now, you're having to try to "right" the many "wrongs" that were done, and you should have enough foresight to realize that the organ will prolly out-live you too, unless your house (God-forbid!) burns down, or the Second Coming takes place!   > For the professionals, who often live far away from their Opuses (or = opi?), a quick "patch job" may precipitate an angry call back at a very = inconvenient time. In the operating room, when tying off an artery, we = often tie a couple extra knots in the suture so we can sleep better at = night.   Fortunately, "amateurs" cannot practice at Surgery!!! > The follow question(s) regards hide glue, not fish glue. There has been = mention of a premixed liquid hide glue. The profs have said that it's not = quite as strong as the powdered kind that you have to cook up.... could = the liquid version be good enough depending upon the particular = application?   No. It has agonizingly slow set characteristics, and you really save nothing by trying to avoid the use of hot glue. You can easily make your own double boiler with a glass Mayonnaise jar inside a pot of water in a 3# Coffee Can on a cheap Wal-Mart Special hot plate and the hot glue doesn't cost THAT much!! REALLY, it doesn't! > My reservoir, at the time of purchase a few months ago, was fine. The = leathers in my 3 rank pitman chest (1972) look great. Accidentally, I = tore one of the pipe valve pouches. Dave Heimer kindly gave me a piece of = pouch leather with which to fix it. While, I understand that one would = definitely want to cook up a batch of hide glue for rebuilding a = reservoir, would a small bottle of liquid hide glue perform well for the = repair of a valve pouch?   Like they say about drugs: "Just say NO to shortcuts!"   > I'm thinking that there's much less stress on the pouch than on the > = corners of the ribs of the reservoir. Of course, during the course > of = putting the pouch rails back into the chest and doing the same > with the = 5 rank chest, I may tear a few more pouches. Maybe I'll > end up needing = more hide glue.   Being prudent and careful is a MUST, you know!   > Anyway, how does one go about obtaining small quantities of this stuff = if the cooked up stuff is really required?   Send me an EMAIL and I'll sell you all you want.   Faithfully,   G.A. -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL    
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] RE: progress report/stuck notes From: "Gregory Rister" <grandcornet@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:22:48 -0800   Hi List,   Let me add to David's excellent advice regarding ciphers on an EM (electromechanical) chest. If you do indeed have some bits of sawdust or debris sitting on the valves, they don't have to be very large to cause problems. Although you may be able to vacuum and blow out a lot of this, you may find that some of the pesky stuff sticks to the nap on the valve surfaces.   Buy several soft artist brushes of different sizes, bearing in mind that they should be able to fit into the toe holes on the chest. If you run across a stubborn cipher, put the brush into the toe hole and gently scrub the surface of the valve to dislodge the debris. Do this with the wind = ON. If the cipher persists, then you may have to try to clean it from below, a much less pleasant experience.   Also, consider that some of your ciphers may be coming from the return springs, which may be adjusted just a tad too light. When you tighten the tension on these, do so in very small increments; it doesn't take much to correct the situation. Oh, and do this when the chest is on its correct pressure :) Otherwise, you're wasting your time.   Finally, check to make sure that there are no wrinkles in the surfaces of the offending valves, and that there are no small chips or tear-outs in = the edges of the valve seating surface on the bottom of your toeboard. Once again, it doesn't take much. . .   Greg Rister The Pipe Organ Craftsmen Pomona, California   > [Original Message] > From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> > To: Residence Organ List <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> > Date: 01/30/2003 10:16:53 AM > Subject: [Residence Organs] RE: progress report/stuck notes > > At 9:24 AM -0600 01/30/03, STEVE PITTS wrote: > > So, I turned on the blower and put pressure on the system. Very > >quickly I noticed to my dismay, that there seemed to be about 50 > >stuck notes creating a shrill, deafening cacophony. I was surprised > >at this since before populating the pipework on the chests and > >airing up the system, I "tested" each DE magnet in the chests with a > >12 volt battery just to make sure they seemed to open and shut > >normally. > > Steve > > ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, before putting any pipes on a chest that has > been open make sure that you BLOW out the toe holes. Little bits of > dust and dirt can settle on the valves and cause cyphers. I really > doubt that the higher wind pressure is causing the cyphers but more > than likely dirt in the system. > > I don't know if you have the relay/console connected up but if you do > - take the pipes off the chest, vacuum it WELL and then go up and > down the keyboard blowing notes by the handful. Do this several > times and then vacuum AGAIN! finally then put the pipes in place. > This is especially important if you have any reed stops on a chest as > the dust/dirt will cause all sorts of problems with them. > > David > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org       --- Gregory Rister --- grandcornet@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.      
(back) Subject: RE: [Residence Organs] Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue From: "Gregory Rister" <grandcornet@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:40:22 -0800   Dearest List,   You know, I don't really disagree with my learned brethren in the organ trade regarding the use of hot hide glue as the staple adhesive of the trade (for renewable work). But, I want to note that I possess an EP windchest, with pouchrails, that I releathered 30 years ago; with liquid hide glue. Gentlemen, the glue is fine, it hasn't failed, and in fact the leather is becoming rather frail and will certainly fail before the glue ever does.   Yes, the windchest has always lived in California, although it also spent about 3 or 4 years of its life in a storage shed.   Would I consider repairing a blown pouch with liquid hide glue? = Certainly. Would I do a whole pouchrail using liquid hide glue? If circumstances limited my choices, yes; I would prefer to use hot hide glue. Would I use liquid hide glue on a reservoir? Only as a last resort, for an smallish onsite patch job. Hot hide glue is much stronger and more reliable when properly mixed. (And as Richard points out, it's a damn site faster).   Would I use Elmer's, white glue or Titebond to releather anything? I'd extract my own teeth first (with rusty pliers).   We all have our preferences, of course, and in some areas of the country, certain types of glue may not perform as well as in others. The most important consideration is to use removeable glues for renewable work. Your personal experiences will more than likely ultimately dictate your favorite adhesive.   Greg Rister The Pipe Organ Craftsmen Pomona, California       > [Original Message] > From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> > To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> > Date: 01/30/2003 1:45:08 PM > Subject: [Residence Organs] Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue > > I appreciate Richard's passion for the hide glue - or, better, for doing the job right the first time. For those of us who are piddling around on our own instruments, it probably doesn't matter what we use. What matters is how much trouble we want to put ourselves thru doing repeat "patch = jobs" or undoing improperly done jobs later. > > For the professionals, who often live far away from their Opuses (or opi?), a quick "patch job" may precipitate an angry call back at a very inconvenient time. In the operating room, when tying off an artery, we often tie a couple extra knots in the suture so we can sleep better at night. > > The follow question(s) regards hide glue, not fish glue. There has been mention of a premixed liquid hide glue. The profs have said that it's not quite as strong as the powdered kind that you have to cook up.... could the liquid version be good enough depending upon the particular = application? > > My reservoir, at the time of purchase a few months ago, was fine. The leathers in my 3 rank pitman chest (1972) look great. Accidentally, I = tore one of the pipe valve pouches. Dave Heimer kindly gave me a piece of = pouch leather with which to fix it. While, I understand that one would definitely want to cook up a batch of hide glue for rebuilding a = reservoir, would a small bottle of liquid hide glue perform well for the repair of a valve pouch? I'm thinking that there's much less stress on the pouch than on the corners of the ribs of the reservoir. Of course, during the course of putting the pouch rails back into the chest and doing the same with the 5 rank chest, I may tear a few more pouches. Maybe I'll end up needing more hide glue. > > Anyway, how does one go about obtaining small quantities of this stuff = if the cooked up stuff is really required? > > Thanks, > Keith > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org       --- Gregory Rister --- grandcornet@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.      
(back) Subject: Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:12:04 -0600   Gregory Rister wrote: > Dearest List, > You know, I don't really disagree with my learned brethren in the organ > trade regarding the use of hot hide glue as the staple adhesive of the > trade (for renewable work). But, I want to note that I possess an EP > windchest, with pouchrails, that I releathered 30 years ago; with liquid > hide glue. Gentlemen, the glue is fine, it hasn't failed, and in fact = the > leather is becoming rather frail and will certainly fail before the glue > ever does.   Ah, and this is where the difference is going to manifest itself. Because the PROPERTIES of the glue is different, I think you're going to find it exceedingly difficult to get the pouch rails to "come clean" whereas a warm rag with a flat iron behind it is really all that's necessary to remove old pouch leather and get down to a clean surface with the "tried and true".   I consider myself to be as lazy as they come (and prolly increasingly so as I get older!) and I'm all for looking for ways to make my job simpler, and if I thought I could get equal results out of a bottle (and in fact, I used to THINK so!!) then I would gladly sell off my glue pots on eBay, but the truth of the matter is: I'm now living long enough to have to go back and re-do some of the really STOOPID stuff I did in my youthful arrogance in the late 1970's and am suffering, mightily, for it!   Such are the joys of becoming old enough to be a Grandparent!   Faithfully,   G.A. -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:49:00 +1300   "Opus", as applied to a composition, often seems to be abbreviated "Op." (eg Beethoven, Sonata Op. 111). Why is the plural sometimes abbreviated "Opp."?   .. . . . . AFJ   Why For the same reason 'ms' means manuscript and 'mss' means manuscripts. Just a convenient short-hand. Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Hot Hide vs. liquid Hide Glue From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:08:06 -0600   At 04:45 PM 1/30/2003 -0500, Dr. Keith wrote: >The follow question(s) regards hide glue, not fish glue. There has been >mention of a premixed liquid hide glue. The profs have said that it's = not >quite as strong as the powdered kind that you have to cook up.... could >the liquid version be good enough depending upon the particular = application?   Hi Keith --   Short answer to your question: YES.   Franklin Liquid Hide Glue is perfectly satisfactory for the use you describe. It is probably true that the liquid glue isn't as strong as the =   cooked version, but either are plenty strong enough to hold leather = pouches to their boards...and both will do so for a good long period of time, = while still easily allowing clean removal and renewal whenever they *do* eventually fail. (and I bet the leather itself will fail before the glue anyway, no matter which glue you use)   Rich is correct that the working time of the liquid hide glue is usually a =   bit longer than the hot glue. I don't find this to be a problem. (fish =   glue, OTOH, has an extraordinarily long working time, which I *do* find to =   be problematic) The nice thing about the liquid glue is that the working time remains constant -- it doesn't keep changing depending on how hot/cold/old/new/thin/thick/etc the glue pot might be at any given moment...nor does the liquid glue care if you need 'a drop' or 'a gallon' of it -- it's always ready to stick.   Pick up a little bottle of Franklin Liquid Hide Glue (a buck 2.89 or so...<g>) at your local hardware/building center, and use it to fix those little "oops-es" -- and feel no guilt whatsoever for doing so!   Tim