DIYAPASON-L Digest #739 - Friday, January 31, 2003
 
Glue!
  by <TheGluePot@aol.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  3-phase converter for 1hp motor
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  3-phase converter for 1hp motor
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: 3-phase converter for 1hp motor
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Hot Hide Glue
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
abbreviations
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: 3-phase converter for 1hp motor
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: 3-phase converter for 1hp motor
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: 3-phase converter for 1hp motor
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Variable frequency drives
  by "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Variable frequency drives
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: Variable frequency drives
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: Variable frequency drives
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Variable frequency drives
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
stuck notes
  by "danielwh" <danielwh@ns.sympatico.ca>
 

(back) Subject: Glue! From: <TheGluePot@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 03:59:27 EST   The following was an educational piece for The Glue Pot back in 2001:   Since I already look like Buddha, I have been contemplating my navel,=20 actually trying to remember what it looked like years ago before it=20 disappeared, and my meditation naturally turned to thinking about glue.   What is glue? How does it work? These are truly cosmic questions. After=20 some meditation the answers came to me. (Actually it was medication by=20 Glenfiddich.) =20   Glue is any substance with the ability to be "sticky." At the molecular=20 level "sticky" really means a glue molecule will have an electrostatic=20 attraction to some other molecule, like the molecule of cellulose in wood or= =20 the molecule of leather protein. The cellulose molecule will have a positiv= e=20 charge or negative charge somewhere on the molecule that a glue molecule can= =20 attach to with an opposite charge. In this respect all glues are alike. It= =20 is only when we get down to the rest of the characteristics that=20 differentiation of surf versus turf proteins becomes meaningful.=20   There are now two animal protein glues used in the organ trade. First there= =20 was the time honoured hot horse hide glue which is made by cooking down=20 hooves and skins until a gelatinous protein soup is formed. The second is=20 the fish glue which also is cooked fish protein that becomes gelatinous afte= r=20 lengthy applied heating. Here the two glues diverge to take their own paths= =20 in the universe.   Hot glue is made fresh from dry crystals. I have hot glue dry crystals from= =20 50 years ago that are still good (someday I will get to the bottom of the 10= 0=20 lb. barrel and it was the best $18 I ever spent). It retains only a small=20 amount of water in the dry form so in a sealable container it does not=20 deteriorate with age. Its long chain proteins are very sticky and strong. =20 This gives it high tensile strength and other positive attributes such as=20 cohesive strength which will be discussed later in this article. Hot glue i= s=20 also a thermoset glue. The electrostatic molecular bonds are not strong=20 until the thermal energy of the glue starts to lower. As the glue cools it=20 gels then solidifies as the bonds become increasingly strong. The last step= =20 is the drying of the hot glue as the water that is not bound up in the=20 proteins evaporates. Long chain proteins bound to the materials they are in= =20 contact with remain like little stringy bridges holding on to both sides of=20 the connection. Some failures of hot hide glue have been reported with=20 chrome tanned leathers as the rapid set up time does not let it sink in to=20 set up and make for a good adhesion on the slick surface. (Water thinning o= f=20 the hot glue should take care of that.)   Fish glue is premixed and arrives as a liquid. It is a solvent glue with=20 water as the solvent. Purchasing fish glue means you are buying a lot of=20 water and after paying for shipping you will find the fish glue economy for=20 doing large jobs to be questionable. The protein chains are smaller and tha= t=20 is why it is still liquid at room temperature. Initial stickiness of fish=20 glue is partly due to the water solvent interacting with the proteins. As=20 the water solvent leaves the proteins link up to the materials with which=20 they are in contact. The smaller proteins will not be as strong as the=20 longer proteins of the hot glue but the difference may not be that important= =20 in organ work. Smaller proteins means lower cohesion over greater distances= =20 so thickness of the glue application and multiple applications of fish glue=20 in layers will yield less tensile strength. Again this may not be a problem= =20 in organ work.   Would I worry if I had *correctly* done a whole organ in fish glue? NO ! !=20= !=20 The track record of fish glue that I personally know of goes back to when=20 Thomas Edison used fish glue to laminate rice paper for his record reproduce= r=20 diaphragms on the Diamond Disc Phonograph. I have never seen one of these=20 1912 diaphragms ever delaminate due to glue failure. So I believe that if=20 used *correctly* fish glue will perform well but it cannot be used if thinne= d=20 in any way or if the sample has been frozen for even a second. Due to=20 already having water in it, it does lose strength, goes stale, and can have=20 bacterial or mold growth which will alter it greatly. Just a small amount o= f=20 mold that is invisible will drastically weaken the protein structure the=20 infection is digesting. So, a very limited shelf life is its biggest=20 problem. The protein in the fish glue may have more surface adhesion but=20 there is some question of how the shorter protein molecules react to long=20 term tension. Then too fish glue problems with drying times in very humid=20 climates have been reported but here in dry California I have never=20 experienced a single case of the glue not setting up quickly. Some=20 advantages are gained with fish glue, it is more tacky than hide glue and th= e=20 new chrome tanned thin pneumatic leathers with a tight smooth low porosity=20 surface may need the extra set time for any glue to soak into the material.=20= =20 The extra working time is also a distinct advantage to the amateur organ=20 builder who needs a more extended working time to position the parts to be=20 glued. Fish glue will soak into the wood more deeply than hot glue so you=20 need to use more on joinery and clamping time goes from minutes to a day or=20 more. One last comparison is that while I believe hot glue is stronger than= =20 fish glue I must admit I also believe that under most conditions the fish=20 glue adhesive strength is adequate for almost every organ job if sufficient=20 amounts of the glue are used that will allow for the deeper infusion into th= e=20 wood and leather.   The great unknown about fish glue is the second property of a glue. Most=20 people know that glues have the property of adhesion, the ability to stick t= o=20 different materials but few think about the second important property. That= =20 second property is cohesion, the ability of the glue to stick to itself. Ho= t=20 glue has excellent qualities in both major properties. Fish glue may have=20 less cohesion so that a multiple application is less strong and any distance= =20 between the glued surfaces should be kept to a minimum. Fish glue is not=20 highly cohesive.   One quick note on the Franklin Liquid Hide Glue. To keep it liquid they add= =20 glycerin plus other additives and this reduces the glues reliability and=20 holding strength. It also has a shelf life problem and cannot take freezing= ..=20 The expiration date really does apply as strength drops with age due to=20 oxidation, protein breakage, and bacterial or mold infestation.   All these things considered, as a purist I reach for hot glue first. It=20 simply cannot be beaten but when a situation comes up where fish glue is=20 expedient I use it without great worry. Being an animal protein glue it wil= l=20 hold=20 well and sand down when dry so the next rebuilder will not curse your name.=20= =20 There is no reason to believe that a properly prepared and applied fish glue= =20 will not give good service for the life of the materials it is bonding=20 together.   Lastly, to get on my usual soap box, I think we all agree NO casein based=20 glues (Elmer's, etc.) or PVCs, PVAs, BVDs, etc., should ever be used to hol= d=20 leather or any pneumatic material onto wood. Anything that has to be rebuil= t=20 should have an animal protein glue not any type of "white" or "yellow" glue.   Best wishes to all,   Al Sefl, Ph.D. Who still thinks horse glue tastes better than fish glue... And is willing to tackle sticky questions...   PS: Hot glue may be kept in syringes in the refrigerator then microwaved=20 when needed. That way small amounts may be used for small jobs then put bac= k=20 into the refrigerator.     =A9reserved - 2001-=20  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] 3-phase converter for 1hp motor From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:54:22 -0500   At 05:19 PM 1/30/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I have a nice Spencer c.1955 which is a 1hp, 3-phase. I'd like to run it >on 220VAC single phase. I know that the 'static' converters are cheaper, >but would a transformer converter be able to handle the load of an organ >blower?     What do you mean by a transformer converter? A static converter just uses capacitors to shift the phase, a fairly crude system but I guess it works ok. There is a rotary phase converter which is basically a motor-generator which works well but is quite expensive. The third type = now available is of a solid state design. It is generally used as a variable speed drive for three phase motors. In this system the single phase AC is converted to DC, then three phase current is electronically produced from this. This is a good system but also fairly expensive. The static type of converter is not good for continuous heavy loading of a motor, but as an organ blower only sees high demand very intermittently, I believe the static type would work fine. Maybe some others have more experience with these. I haven't actually used one and tend to lean towards changing the motor to single phase when possible. Of course with organ blowers changing =   the motor is not a very favorable or possible option, unlike with woodworking tools, etc. that many times are belt driven.   A couple of years back I found the website of a company that made the static converters. They even mentioned organ blowers under the recommended =   usage. If I can find the site I'll post it.   Hope all have a nice weekend!   Eric       >Regards, >Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA >http://home.jps.net/~rrloesch/index.htm > >Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built >the Ark. A large group of professional engineers built the Titanic. > > > >DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own >Residence Pipe Organs. >HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org >List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] 3-phase converter for 1hp motor From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:36:17 -0600   At 07:54 AM 1/31/03 -0500, you wrote: >The static type of converter is not good for continuous heavy loading of = a >motor, but as an organ blower only sees high demand very intermittently,   Some organists could cause a serious problem here<G>      
(back) Subject: Re: 3-phase converter for 1hp motor From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:50:38 -0500   One supplier of Variable Frequency Drives suitable for use with organ blowers is: AC Technology Corporation of Uxbridge, Massachusetts, = http://www.actech.com   I am using one of their units on a 1/4hp Ventus blower, and they also supplied a slightly larger unit for the 30hp blower on the big Wurlitzer = at Shea's Buffalo theatre. For sizes up to 1hp, their units qualify as UL-listed motor controllers. The smaller ones can be feed 120v or 240v single-phase, but the larger ones require 240v (not surprising!).   I wrote a rather blatheratious report on some experiments with this unit = on 10/11/2000, entitled "Blower Experiments"; it should be available in the appropriate DIY archive. In particular, I tried running the Ventus at 10% higher speed (something that Laukhuff says is ok), and the result was a higher static pressure.   Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: Hot Hide Glue From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:22:30 -0600   Somebody on ebay periodically lists it under pipe organs and sells small quantities; he says he buys the drums and caters to the smaller user. If you're anywhere close to a builder, I'd imagine most would part with a small quantity for a reasonable price. I've found builders and servicepeople almost universally helpful.   Dennis Steckley   Ich liebe meine Katzen        
(back) Subject: abbreviations From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:23:52 -0600   RE: op. and opp.: I dunno, but we do the same thing with: Manuscript ms. and mss. Verse vs and vss.   Dennis Steckley   Ich liebe meine Katzen        
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: 3-phase converter for 1hp motor From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:51:55 -0800   Hi, Larry. Thanks for your reply. I remember the Shea's story now, and I recall seeing the article at that time, but the link below now takes me to some other site where they make no mention of any products controlling motors. What's up?     At 08:50 AM 1/31/03 -0500, Larry Chace wrote: >One supplier of Variable Frequency Drives suitable for use with organ >blowers is: >AC Technology Corporation of Uxbridge, Massachusetts, = http://www.actech.com >     Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA http://home.jps.net/~rrloesch/index.htm   "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep." Scott Adams, "The Dilbert Principle".      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: 3-phase converter for 1hp motor From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:01:39 -0500   At 07:51 AM 1/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, Larry. Thanks for your reply. I remember the Shea's story now, and = I >recall seeing the article at that time, but the link below now takes me = to >some other site where they make no mention of any products controlling >motors. What's up? >   I looked it up in Google and this works. http://www.actechdrives.com    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: 3-phase converter for 1hp motor From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:15:21 -0800   Thanks, Eric. Also, thanks for your original response, which I, like the boor that I am, failed to acknoledge. By 'transformer converter', I was referring to those older statics which used a transformer and a HUGE capacitor bank to generate the 3rd leg. My friend Ron Downer used to have one of those on his 10hp Spencer, and the converter weighed almost as much as the blower and motor. That link works, and it is the right one. Thanks again!   At 11:01 AM 1/31/03 -0500, Eric Sagmuller wrote: > >I looked it up in Google and this works. http://www.actechdrives.com     Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA http://home.jps.net/~rrloesch/index.htm   "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep." Scott Adams, "The Dilbert Principle".      
(back) Subject: Variable frequency drives From: "Eric Sagmuller" <ess4@psu.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:20:45 -0500   I just checked the Grainger catalog and for a 1 HP motor the least expensive VF drive they have costs $430. They aren't cheap, but the price doesn't go up that much more for a 2 or 3 HP unit.   Eric    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Variable frequency drives From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:42:59 -0800   Hello, Eric. I hate to trouble you again, but would you tell me the Grainger part #, or at least how you found it? I've been trying to locate it on-line in their catalog, but they can't find anything under "converter", "3 phase converter", "variable frequency", etc.   Bob, who knows a bit about organs, slightly more about electicity, but almost nothing about the internet... ";-)   At 11:20 AM 1/31/03 -0500, Eric Sagmuller wrote: >I just checked the Grainger catalog and for a 1 HP motor the least >expensive VF drive they have costs $430. They aren't cheap, but the price =   >doesn't go up that much more for a 2 or 3 HP unit. > >Eric     Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA http://home.jps.net/~rrloesch/index.htm   "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep." Scott Adams, "The Dilbert Principle".      
(back) Subject: Re: Variable frequency drives From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:23:20 -0500   Let me apologize for giving an incorrect URL for AC Technology = Corporation. As Eric discovered, the correct one is:   http://www.actechdrives.com   I checked their web site and found that the unit I'm using is no longer listed. In a bit of a panic, I called their number (1-800-217-9100) and spoke to a very pleasant sales representative. She said that the model I have is being discontinued but there is a replacement, their "SCM" series (model numbers starting with "SM"). I asked her for prices for 1/2hp and 1hp units, single-phase input, quantity one and she said that they are about $175 and $235, respectively. Units up to 5hp are available in this "no-frills" version.   They prefer to sell via their distributors but are also perfectly willing to sell to individuals via credit cards. The web site also includes the PDF versions of the instruction manuals.   (I was *much* relieved, since I still want to buy a 1/2hp unit as well as = a second 1/4hp unit.)   I have no connection to this company other than as a very satisfied = customer.   Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Variable frequency drives From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:38:09 -0800   Hi, Larry. No problem about the URL. Thanks for the info about actechdrives! They look a lot more accessable than Grainger ($235 as opposed to $430), so that looks like the way I'll = be going. Thank you one and all for once again proving what a great resource this list is!   At 01:23 PM 1/31/03 -0500, Larry Chace wrote: >Let me apologize for giving an incorrect URL for AC Technology = Corporation. >As Eric discovered, the correct one is: > >http://www.actechdrives.com > >I checked their web site and found that the unit I'm using is no longer >listed. In a bit of a panic, I called their number (1-800-217-9100) and >spoke to a very pleasant sales representative. She said that the model I >have is being discontinued but there is a replacement, their "SCM" series >(model numbers starting with "SM"). I asked her for prices for 1/2hp and >1hp units, single-phase input, quantity one and she said that they are >about $175 and $235, respectively. Units up to 5hp are available in this >"no-frills" version. > >They prefer to sell via their distributors but are also perfectly willing >to sell to individuals via credit cards. The web site also includes the >PDF versions of the instruction manuals. > >(I was *much* relieved, since I still want to buy a 1/2hp unit as well as = a >second 1/4hp unit.) > >I have no connection to this company other than as a very satisfied = customer. > >Larry Chace     Regards, Bob, in beautiful Lake County, California, USA http://home.jps.net/~rrloesch/index.htm   "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep." Scott Adams, "The Dilbert Principle".      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Variable frequency drives From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:48:37 EST     --part1_1a5.fb8a6c4.2b6c3b25_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi listers--- Has anyone checked out that Boston Fincor ?(I think) supplier of drives = that Phil Lyons Jr. used to espouse highly? Is there any advantage on price or =   features? Just thinking. ---Roc L V Rockafellow New Jersey   --part1_1a5.fb8a6c4.2b6c3b25_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Hi listers---<BR> Has anyone checked out that Boston Fincor ?(I think) supplier of drives = that Phil Lyons Jr.&nbsp; used to espouse highly? Is there any advantage = on price or features? <BR> Just thinking. <BR> ---Roc<BR> L V Rockafellow<BR> New Jersey </FONT></HTML>   --part1_1a5.fb8a6c4.2b6c3b25_boundary--  
(back) Subject: stuck notes From: "danielwh" <danielwh@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:57:54 -0400   now that I solved tbe problem of the air leakage between the bottom board and the allignment of the channel s , I have no cyphers, And the magnets work to turn on the note, Problem is When I release the note it stays on the little disk in the magnet, doesnt seem to be retracting It dont seem to be dirty what would cause thsi and how can I rectify this, not all the notes do = thsi , some behave normally   Danielwh     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003