DIYAPASON-L Digest #910 - Thursday, October 30, 2003
 
Re: [Residence Organs]  DIY trackers?
  by "Tony Newnham" <organist.tony@btinternet.com>
Re: DIY trackers?
  by "Ed Stauff" <ed@mewsic.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Celeste tuning
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIY trackers?
  by "Scott E." <yahudinyhwh@sbcglobal.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIY trackers?
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
RE: Celeste tuning
  by <tadstone@ix.netcom.com>
[Residence Organs]  RE: Celeste tuning
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Re: DIY trackers?
  by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] DIY trackers? From: "Tony Newnham" <organist.tony@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:56:54 -0000   Ed   You're not alone - although to be fair, my project is more of a rebuild - and is very small (3 stops). I did consider lowering the windchest, but advice from an organ-builder friend made me think again. In principle, = all I have to do is put the existing action back in - once I get everything lined up (the building frame was U/S).   Designing a tracker action is a different matter. There are plans in = books like Dickson or Milne - but I've not seen anything more recent, and = nothing about suspended actions. The annual journal of the (British) IBO - "Organ Building" often has diagrams of action layouts, etc. but these are on = such a small scale, and so generalised, that they aren't a great deal of help.   Please let me know if you come across any other reference material - I = need to decide what to do about the pedals on my current project. It has 30 = note pedal board, that was permanently coupled to the manual, and I want to add an independent pedal department - which means modifying the coupler mechanism, and deciding what kind of action to use for the pedals.   Every Blessing   Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Stauff" <ed@mewsic.com> To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 7:45 PM Subject: [Residence Organs] DIY trackers?     | Do any of you have a mechanical action (tracker) organ that you have built, | are building, or are planning to build? I see lots of traffic about DE | and EP hausorgels, but I don't recall seeing anyone talk about trackers. | The question isn't academic; I'm seriously considering building a = tracker | rather than a DE instrument. (Call the men in white coats...) | | -- Ed | | = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D | Institute for Pipe Organ Research and Education, Inc. www.ipore.org | Edward L. Stauff, president ed@mewsic.com | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | Support IPORE and the Encyclopedia of Organ Stops by sponsoring a stop! | Details at "http://www.stauffconsulting.com/ipore/DonorSpots.html". | DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own | Residence Pipe Organs. | HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org | List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org | Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org | | |    
(back) Subject: Re: DIY trackers? From: "Ed Stauff" <ed@mewsic.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:59:10 -0500   Larry Chace wrote: > Ed, what sort of design do you have in mind?   Basically, start with a medium-size French Classic design, and add stops to allow adequate performance of German Baroque literature. I'm more interested in an instrument on which I can play my favorite literature than in authenticity. My current target spec looks like this:   MANUAL I Bourdon 16' Principal 8' Flute 8' Octave 4' Flute 4' Quint 2 2/3' (principal) Superoctave 2' Tierce 1 3/5' (principal) Mixture (Fourniture?) Trumpet 8' (rather smooth)   MANUAL II (enclosed) Geigen 8' Celeste 8' Flute 8' Octave 4' Flute 4' Flute 2' Mixture (Cymbale?) ? Contrafagotto 16' ? Trompette 8' (rather fiery) Cromorne 8' Clairon 4'   MANUAL III (French cornet decompose; enclosed?) Bourdon 8' Prestant 4' Nasard 2 2/3' Doublette 2' Tierce 1 3/5' ? Larigot 1 1/3' ?   PEDAL ? Resultant 32' ? (borrowed) Principal 16' (or principal/string hybrid) Sub Bass 16' Bourdon 16' (from Manual I) ? Quint 10 2/3' ? (borrowed) Octave 8' Gedeckt 8' Choralbass 4' Contrafagotto 16' (smooth) Trumpet 8' (ext. of 16') Clarion 4' (ext. of 16')   "Flute" indicates some sort of flute, either open, stopped, or half- stopped. I'm still not sure what to use where. *All* stops are full compass.   manuals: 58 notes, CC-a'' pedal: 30 notes, CCC-F couplers: III-II, III-I, II-I, III-P, II-P, I-P   stop action: mechanical, with EP assist for combination action key action: mechanical, maybe with EP pulldowns for remote console   I'm not particularly interested in seeing how much I can build "from scratch"; I'm quite happy to buy keyboards and action components. I expect to have to build the chests, though.   -- Ed   +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Edward L. Stauff ed@mewsic.REMOVE_THIS_SPAMGUARD.com | | Itinerant musician, software engineer, dad, bibliophile, cohouser, | | husband, microferroequinologist, woodworker, author (order varies). | | "Specialization is for insects." -- Lazarus Long (R. A. Heinlein) | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Celeste tuning From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:49:16 -0500   Bob Taylor asked about Celestial Tuning for his Aeolian. In addition to Bob Loesch's good advice, I'd add just a bit.   The Aeolian "Viol d'Orchestre" (aka "String F" on their stoptabs), is not nearly as thin and bright as, say, a Wurlitzer VdO. The Aeolian set is probably scale 63 (about 68 mm =3D 2.7" at CC) on 4-5" pressure, whereas I believe the Wurlitzer sets are about scale 72 (about 46mm =3D 1.8" at CC) = on 10" pressure. Of course, the entire Aeolian pipework would be "gentler" than the Wurlitzer.   Nelson Barden commented once that the Aeolian celestes ("Vibrato String = F") were tuned quite slow, such that they could be used *without* the corresponding unison rank when building up from PP to FF. The important consideration there seemed to be a "seamless" crescendo; it was further extended by adding the Vox Humana, the Oboe, other ranks, and then the String Mixture as a topping.   If Bob (Taylor's) pipework hasn't been manipulated too much, it might be possible to find samples that would give an indication of the original tuning. (If the pipe trays weren't so buried, I'd dig out some pipes from my String F and Vibrato String F and see if I could determine the original tuning.)   E.M.Skinner liked to have 1 beat per second at middle C, with the Celeste rank tuned to itself, so that there would be 2 beats per second at treble C, 1/2 beat per second at tenor C, etc. Most folks seem to prefer to keep the beat speed more constant throughout the compass (but not completely constant). Too fast a rate will make the Strings sound like an accordian (which may be a Bug or a Feature, depending...).   Larry Chace        
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIY trackers? From: "Scott E." <yahudinyhwh@sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:25:11 -0800   Hi Ed,   This is certainly an ambitious project. My goal is a 2 manual tracker with 6-8 ranks.   With regard to your specification, I would agree that the selection of which flute to include in each division is a fun intellectual task. It has certainly given my brain a great deal to think about over the years. With the French Classic design you wish to achieve, I would certainly attempt to include a Harmonic Flute, even if at the 4' register.   One thing that has been an issue for me is finding information that would help a beginner to construct a tracker instrument. Most of the books I have read don't go into the nuts and bolts enough to aid in a construction project. I would certainly appreciate anyone on the list recommending such a resource.   Best of luck to you with your project. I'm sure it will be a rewarding experience.   Regards, Scott ---------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stauff wrote: > > Basically, start with a medium-size French Classic design, and add stops =   > to allow adequate performance of German Baroque literature. I'm more > interested in an instrument on which I can play my favorite literature > than in authenticity. My current target spec looks like this: > > MANUAL I > Bourdon 16' > Principal 8' > Flute 8' > Octave 4' > Flute 4' > Quint 2 2/3' (principal) > Superoctave 2' > Tierce 1 3/5' (principal) > Mixture (Fourniture?) > Trumpet 8' (rather smooth) > > MANUAL II (enclosed) > Geigen 8' > Celeste 8' > Flute 8' > Octave 4' > Flute 4' > Flute 2' > Mixture (Cymbale?) > ? Contrafagotto 16' ? > Trompette 8' (rather fiery) > Cromorne 8' > Clairon 4' > > MANUAL III (French cornet decompose; enclosed?) > Bourdon 8' > Prestant 4' > Nasard 2 2/3' > Doublette 2' > Tierce 1 3/5' > ? Larigot 1 1/3' ? > > PEDAL > ? Resultant 32' ? (borrowed) > Principal 16' (or principal/string hybrid) > Sub Bass 16' > Bourdon 16' (from Manual I) > ? Quint 10 2/3' ? (borrowed) > Octave 8' > Gedeckt 8' > Choralbass 4' > Contrafagotto 16' (smooth) > Trumpet 8' (ext. of 16') > Clarion 4' (ext. of 16') > > "Flute" indicates some sort of flute, either open, stopped, or half- > stopped. I'm still not sure what to use where. > *All* stops are full compass. > > manuals: 58 notes, CC-a'' > pedal: 30 notes, CCC-F > couplers: III-II, III-I, II-I, III-P, II-P, I-P > > stop action: mechanical, with EP assist for combination action > key action: mechanical, maybe with EP pulldowns for remote console > > I'm not particularly interested in seeing how much I can build "from > scratch"; I'm quite happy to buy keyboards and action components. I > expect to have to build the chests, though. > > -- Ed > > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Edward L. Stauff ed@mewsic.REMOVE_THIS_SPAMGUARD.com | > | Itinerant musician, software engineer, dad, bibliophile, cohouser, | > | husband, microferroequinologist, woodworker, author (order varies). | > | "Specialization is for insects." -- Lazarus Long (R. A. Heinlein) | > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIY trackers? From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:04:49 -0500   Scott,   Find a copy of "How to Build a Small Two Manual Chamber Pipe Organ" by Milne. It has detailed drawings of windchests and tracker mechanism. Another book that is very similar is "Organbuilding for Amateurs" by Mark Wicks.   I bought them many years ago while in college. I always felt that the factor limiting my ability to build an organ was the pipes. I did not, = and still don't, belive that I could construct the pipes.   I've wondered about finding simply the tracker chassis that consists of = the keyboards, frame, trackers, and backfalls, then constructing the chests = and planting the pipes. Perhaps Organ Clearinghouse could help.   There are a few trackers on the Organ Clearinghouse site that are very reasonably priced - unless they're complete dogs. If ceiling height = wasn't a problem, that might be a route to take.   Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott E." <yahudinyhwh@sbcglobal.net> To: "Residence Organ List" <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIY trackers?     > Hi Ed, > > This is certainly an ambitious project. My goal is a 2 manual tracker > with 6-8 ranks. > > With regard to your specification, I would agree that the selection of > which flute to include in each division is a fun intellectual task. It > has certainly given my brain a great deal to think about over the years. > With the French Classic design you wish to achieve, I would certainly > attempt to include a Harmonic Flute, even if at the 4' register. > > One thing that has been an issue for me is finding information that > would help a beginner to construct a tracker instrument. Most of the > books I have read don't go into the nuts and bolts enough to aid in a > construction project. I would certainly appreciate anyone on the list > recommending such a resource. > > Best of luck to you with your project. I'm sure it will be a rewarding > experience. > > Regards, Scott > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Ed Stauff wrote: > > > > Basically, start with a medium-size French Classic design, and add = stops > > to allow adequate performance of German Baroque literature. I'm more > > interested in an instrument on which I can play my favorite literature > > than in authenticity. My current target spec looks like this: > > > > MANUAL I > > Bourdon 16' > > Principal 8' > > Flute 8' > > Octave 4' > > Flute 4' > > Quint 2 2/3' (principal) > > Superoctave 2' > > Tierce 1 3/5' (principal) > > Mixture (Fourniture?) > > Trumpet 8' (rather smooth) > > > > MANUAL II (enclosed) > > Geigen 8' > > Celeste 8' > > Flute 8' > > Octave 4' > > Flute 4' > > Flute 2' > > Mixture (Cymbale?) > > ? Contrafagotto 16' ? > > Trompette 8' (rather fiery) > > Cromorne 8' > > Clairon 4' > > > > MANUAL III (French cornet decompose; enclosed?) > > Bourdon 8' > > Prestant 4' > > Nasard 2 2/3' > > Doublette 2' > > Tierce 1 3/5' > > ? Larigot 1 1/3' ? > > > > PEDAL > > ? Resultant 32' ? (borrowed) > > Principal 16' (or principal/string hybrid) > > Sub Bass 16' > > Bourdon 16' (from Manual I) > > ? Quint 10 2/3' ? (borrowed) > > Octave 8' > > Gedeckt 8' > > Choralbass 4' > > Contrafagotto 16' (smooth) > > Trumpet 8' (ext. of 16') > > Clarion 4' (ext. of 16') > > > > "Flute" indicates some sort of flute, either open, stopped, or half- > > stopped. I'm still not sure what to use where. > > *All* stops are full compass. > > > > manuals: 58 notes, CC-a'' > > pedal: 30 notes, CCC-F > > couplers: III-II, III-I, II-I, III-P, II-P, I-P > > > > stop action: mechanical, with EP assist for combination action > > key action: mechanical, maybe with EP pulldowns for remote console > > > > I'm not particularly interested in seeing how much I can build "from > > scratch"; I'm quite happy to buy keyboards and action components. I > > expect to have to build the chests, though. > > > > -- Ed > > > > = +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > | Edward L. Stauff ed@mewsic.REMOVE_THIS_SPAMGUARD.com = | > > | Itinerant musician, software engineer, dad, bibliophile, cohouser, = | > > | husband, microferroequinologist, woodworker, author (order varies). = | > > | "Specialization is for insects." -- Lazarus Long (R. A. Heinlein) = | > > = +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > > Residence Pipe Organs. > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > > > > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Celeste tuning From: <tadstone@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:32:00 -0800 (GMT-08:00)   The esteemed Dr. Chase mentioned the identity of the Aeolian "String-F" as = a 63-scale Viol d'Orchestre. Would he, or anyone else, have (or know the = location of) a list identifying all the Aeolian "aliases"? I have the = tracker layout for the wide Aeolian player, and it would be nice to be = able to document it with what pipes actually correspond with "String P" or = "Flute F". I realize not all player installations were the same, but = Aeolian probably had a "standard" spec for such things.   Since the only way music comes out of my pipework is via MIDI files, I = have always been interested in the old- time pipe organ players and the = possibility of tapping into this resource as a source of music.   Craig Williams  
(back) Subject: [Residence Organs] RE: Celeste tuning From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:25:28 -0600   >The esteemed Dr. Chase mentioned the identity of the Aeolian >"String-F" as a 63-scale Viol d'Orchestre. Would he, or anyone >else, have (or know the location of) a list identifying all the >Aeolian "aliases"? I have the tracker layout for the wide Aeolian >player, and it would be nice to be able to document it with what >pipes actually correspond with "String P" or "Flute F". I realize >not all player installations were the same, but Aeolian probably had >a "standard" spec for such things. > >Since the only way music comes out of my pipework is via MIDI files, >I have always been interested in the old- time pipe organ players >and the possibility of tapping into this resource as a source of >music. > >Craig Williams   Craig   You need to get yourself a copy of the book "The Aeolian Pipe Organ And Its music" by Rollin Smith and published by the Organ Historical Society. It covers all of the questions you have above plus a whole lot more.   You can find it at: http://www.ohscatalog.org - it is listed about 3/4 the way down on the "Books" page.   David  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: DIY trackers? From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:13:59 -0800   "Scott E." wrote: > ... Most of the > books I have read don't go into the nuts and bolts enough to aid in a > construction project. I would certainly appreciate anyone on the list > recommending such a resource.     Amen. The only comments I have ever read on any list (that I can remember) that dealt with how to adjust the key pressure/weight was Larry Chace's recent description of the console of his first home-built organ.   Mac Hayes