DIYAPASON-L Digest #955 - Friday, February 6, 2004
 
Subject: Keyboard technology question?
  by "John R. Ball" <fitball@cox.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Subject: Keyboard technology question?
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
RE:  Keyboard technology question?
  by "john volbeda" <johnvolbeda@hotmail.com>
Pipe packing
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Subject: Keyboard technology question?
  by "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Subject: Keyboard technology question?
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: Keyboard technology question?
  by "John R. Ball" <fitball@cox.net>
reed switches
  by <jadams28@comcast.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  RE:  Keyboard technology question?
  by "Tony Newnham" <organist.tony@btinternet.com>
Meidinger Blower Oil  &  A Deal On Diodes
  by "S. Durham" <sdurham11@comcast.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Meidinger Blower Oil  &  A Deal On Diodes
  by "rnewman" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu>
Re: [Residence Organs]  reed switches
  by <RDoer30176@aol.com>
reed switches
  by "John Adams" <jadams28@comcast.net>
Re: [Residence Organs]  Subject: Keyboard technology question?
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Subject: Keyboard technology question? From: "John R. Ball" <fitball@cox.net> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:42:47 -0500   Hello list, I am reworking some pipe organ keyboards for MIDI. I am using miniature reed switches and tiny, powerful magnets. Does anyone have any experience with this technology for keyboards? Any pitfalls that you forsee?   Also, can anyone provide me with the correct AGO specifications for how = many inches of key depression: 1) to make contact, and 2) to bottom out? Do = the naturals and sharps have the same specification?   Thank you, John Ball McLean, VA      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Subject: Keyboard technology question? From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:13:50 -0500   John,   I'm interested to hear more specifics regarding your switches. What kind = of reed switches are you using. To what are you connecting the switches? to gang switches? to some kind of relay panel? What kind of magnets are = these? What will the magnets be powering? Are these valve magnets or relay magnets?   Sorry, John, you posted a question and all you're getting from me are more questions. The reason I'm asking is that I may be having to rethink the type of switching I will use for my organ. I may end up cleaning up the mechanical Austin coupler assemblies, rewiring my old relay panels and Reisner gang switches. That means that I will have to go hunting for a = few more used gang switches. I'm wanting a simpler way of doing things.   Thanks, Keith   ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Ball" <fitball@cox.net> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 8:42 AM Subject: [Residence Organs] Subject: Keyboard technology question?     > Hello list, > I am reworking some pipe organ keyboards for MIDI. > I am using miniature reed switches and tiny, powerful magnets. > Does anyone have any experience with this technology for keyboards? Any > pitfalls that you forsee? > > Also, can anyone provide me with the correct AGO specifications for how many > inches of key depression: 1) to make contact, and 2) to bottom out? Do the > naturals and sharps have the same specification? > > Thank you, > John Ball > McLean, VA > > > DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own > Residence Pipe Organs. > HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org > List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Keyboard technology question? From: "john volbeda" <johnvolbeda@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:43:16 -0800   Hello John,   Not sure of the key travel ...   AGO spec for manuals are=85   Point of speech: Midway between top and bottom of travel of keys Weight of touch: 3-1/4 to 3-3/4 ounces.   Others may comment about the switches. I=92ve heard some who take a used keyboard with MIDI and harvest the switches and associated electronics. That way you might even get velocity on the keys.   John Volbeda       > >Hello list, >I am reworking some pipe organ keyboards for MIDI. >I am using miniature reed switches and tiny, powerful magnets. >Does anyone have any experience with this technology for keyboards? Any >pitfalls that you forsee? > >Also, can anyone provide me with the correct AGO specifications for how >many >inches of key depression: 1) to make contact, and 2) to bottom out? Do = the >naturals and sharps have the same specification? > >Thank you, >John Ball >McLean, VA > >   _________________________________________________________________ Check out the great features of the new MSN 9 Dial-up, with the MSN = Dial-up Accelerator. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/    
(back) Subject: Pipe packing From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:21:08 -0500   Some little time ago there was some discussion here about the way in which pipes get packed for shipment. I meant to chime in with a comment about a rank that I purchased from Randy Newman at Rutgers, who is also on this list. It arrived very well packed in a hefty box filled with shredded paper and all of the pipes were in fine condition. A few days later, = Randy wrote, saying that he had just found the top pipe of that rank; it had gotten separated from the rest. He then shipped it, encased in a block of Styrofoam and so it arrived in perfect condition.   Well done!   A word of caution about bubble-wrap: it works well to prevent inter-pipe collisions within a packing box, but if left on spotted metal pipes for = too long, it can cause some discoloration, so it is good to unpack bubble-wrapped pipework upon arrival.   Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Subject: Keyboard technology question? From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:21:37 -0500   John Ball asked about the use of reed switches and small but powerful permanent magnets on keyboards. A couple of things come to mind:   1. Be sure that the switches aren't affected by their neighbors' magnets. This is sometimes a problem in some stoptab actions that use reed = switches.   2. Be sure that there is a good way to adjust the firing point of the switches on a per-key basis.   My console's pedalboard was fitted with reed switches and they seem to = work ok there. Of course, fine adjustment isn't really necessary for a pedalboard. I did manage to break a couple of them when I tried to coarse-adjust them; bending them on their mounting wires is tricky since you need to apply zero force to the glass body.   Peterson sells pedalboard contacts of this type (with each one on its own little circuit board); they also make a Swell pedal assembly with reed switches. Their manual keyboard contact system, however, uses wire contacts, perhaps to achieve greater contact density.   Larry Chace      
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Subject: Keyboard technology question? From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:27:47 -0600   Hello, John: The proper "strike" distance for keyboards and pedalboards is "half way down." F. Richard Burt Dorian Organs   ..    
(back) Subject: Re: Keyboard technology question? From: "John R. Ball" <fitball@cox.net> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:59:08 -0500   Dear list, Keith Z. asked me for additional information and I though it may be of interest to the list.   I am using the MIDI input to drive an "Hauptwerk" organ http://www.hauptwerk.co.uk/. When I had a lot of pipe work I designed PC-based circuitry and programming for pipe organ control. Now that I = have sold my pipework and other real PO things I am using only sampled sounds = via PC.   The reeds were bought via eBay in bulk. They might be these http://www.cotorelay.com/html/reed_switch_ri-02.htm or similar. The neodymium magnets are also eBay items: 1/8" diameter by 1/16" thick. I removed the old coupler switches from the back of my keyboards and made a bar for the reeds from parts of the old coupler bars. The coupler's original brass actuators were moved to the other side of the keys and magnets glued to their tips. They use their original screw mechanism to adjust their height.   The main reason for replacing the coupler switches with reeds was to be = able to operate on CMOS voltages. The couplers, even though having silver contacts, need 12 or more volts to make reliable contact. The reeds are reliable at 3v.   Now that I have new switches I will use a contact-to-MIDI converter made = by http://geocities.com/midiboutique/ . You might be able to use some of his products.   Finally, the Hauptwerk organ displays its stops and preset buttons on the = PC screen. So, I will use a touch-screen placed beside the keyboards and = just touch it's displayed stops for registration. No more mechanical knobs or tablets here. Also the console just got a whole lot smaller since I only need a table of the right height to hold keyboards and a touch screen on either side.   I feel that doing things "simpler" means using all of the power that a PC has to offer. With a few digital I/O cards and a small "C" program you = can completely get rid of mechanical switches and wiring.   Hope this has been helpful, John Ball      
(back) Subject: reed switches From: <jadams28@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:42:56 +0000   I too would like any hints on using reed switches. I just yesterday = received an order of switches from DigiKey ($27.00/50). I bought some = "craft magnets" at Walmart. They are far from powerful but work fine at a = distance of about 3/8" or more. I cut one into the smallest denominator = that would work, about 1/4" OD by 3/32 thick. After mulling over the = mounting, my solution (not for everybody) is a tonge depressor (they flex = just right) with a #6-32 screw on one end for fine adjustment with it = anchored firmly on the other end. The reed switch wires go down through = holes in the tonge depressor to the bottom side where wiring will be done. = Time will tell how well it works. These reeds will switch 500 ma. Although = I did't need to do so at this time with this very small organ, a reed = switch used in conjunction the IC drivers that are discussed occasionally = on this site would be a perfect match. One like the ULN2803 costs about 40 = cents and has eight channels or outputs. I converted a Rogers   John Adams of KY  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] RE: Keyboard technology question? From: "Tony Newnham" <organist.tony@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:29:50 -0000   Hi   SSL market a commercial system using reed switches and magnets - there = might be some info on their web site. (www.ssosystems.com)   Every Blessing   Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "john volbeda" <johnvolbeda@hotmail.com> To: <DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 2:43 PM Subject: [Residence Organs] RE: Keyboard technology question?     | Hello John, | | Not sure of the key travel ... | | AGO spec for manuals are. | | Point of speech: Midway between top and bottom of travel of keys | Weight of touch: 3-1/4 to 3-3/4 ounces. | | Others may comment about the switches. I've heard some who take a used | keyboard with MIDI and harvest the switches and associated electronics. | That way you might even get velocity on the keys. | | John Volbeda | | | | > | >Hello list, | >I am reworking some pipe organ keyboards for MIDI. | >I am using miniature reed switches and tiny, powerful magnets. | >Does anyone have any experience with this technology for keyboards? = Any | >pitfalls that you forsee? | > | >Also, can anyone provide me with the correct AGO specifications for how | >many | >inches of key depression: 1) to make contact, and 2) to bottom out? Do the | >naturals and sharps have the same specification? | > | >Thank you, | >John Ball | >McLean, VA | > | > | | _________________________________________________________________ | Check out the great features of the new MSN 9 Dial-up, with the MSN Dial-up | Accelerator. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ | | DIYAPASON-L: a Discussion list for owners and builders of their own | Residence Pipe Organs. | HOMEPAGE : http://www.diyapason.pipechat.org | List: mailto:DIYAPASON-L@pipechat.org | Administration: mailto:owner-DIYAPASON@pipechat.org | | |    
(back) Subject: Meidinger Blower Oil & A Deal On Diodes From: "S. Durham" <sdurham11@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:38:45 -0800   Wellspring of great knowledge:   Could someone please tell me what type of oil I should use on my = Meidinger Blower and also how often I should oil it? It's a .25HP = single phase that I bought used about a year ago and was probably made = in the 1970's. It runs silently and smoothly and I want to keep it that = way which is why I need the information above.   Also, does anyone know of the cheapest source for diodes? I need 5 = unified ranks worth and have bought them from OSI in the past but didn't = know if they're the cheapest or not. I wanted to take time to say = thanks to everyone who's helped me with my technical questions in the = past. This is a great group of very nice and knowledgeable people and = I truly appreciate your input.   Cordially,   Steven Durham Portland, OR USA sdurham11@comcast.net    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Meidinger Blower Oil & A Deal On Diodes From: "rnewman" <rnewman@shop.rutgers.edu> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:01:48 -0500       Steven,   The Meidinger documentation says use "lightweight electric motor oil".=20=   I have been using 3-in-1 Motor Oil from the hardware store (make sure=20 its the blue Motor Oil container and not the standard black and red=20 multi-purpose) in my blower for years and its still working fine. As=20 far as I know this is just SAE 20 non detergent oil.   http://www.wd40.com/Brands/3in1_product_info.html   As for diodes, check www.digikey.com or www.jameco.com.   Good luck.   -Randy       On Feb 6, 2004, at 4:38 PM, S. Durham wrote:   > Wellspring of great knowledge: > =A0 > Could someone please tell me what=A0type of oil I should use on my=20 > Meidinger Blower and also how often I should oil it?=A0 It's a .25HP=20=   > single phase that I bought used about a year ago and was probably made=20=   > in the 1970's.=A0 It runs silently and smoothly and I want to keep it=20=   > that way which is why I need the information above. > =A0 > Also, does anyone know of the cheapest source for diodes?=A0 I need 5=20=   > unified ranks worth and have bought them from OSI in the past but=20 > didn't know if they're the cheapest or not.=A0 I wanted to take time = to=20 > say thanks to everyone who's helped me with my technical questions in=20=   > the past.=A0 =A0This is a great group of =A0very nice and=20 > knowledgeable=A0people and I truly appreciate your input. > =A0 > Cordially, > =A0 > Steven Durham > Portland, OR USA > sdurham11@comcast.net > =A0    
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] reed switches From: <RDoer30176@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:27:04 EST   In a message dated 2/6/2004 11:44:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, jadams28@comcast.net writes:   > > I too would like any hints on using reed switches   Hi List,   Choose the right magnet. They, (manufactures) make a horseshoe magnet that is round 3/8" X 1/8" or 3/16" with a hole in the center. It has been =   years since I used them. The advantage in using these are, you can rotate = the magnet and vary the strength of field going to the reed switch. One should get = samples of a few of different strength and test them first. Then order the size = that does the job. Search the Internet, there are all kinds of magnets there.   Russ        
(back) Subject: reed switches From: "John Adams" <jadams28@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:54:38 -0600   My last posting seems to have given up before I finished. As I was = saying, I recently converted a 30 note Rogers Glockenspeil from the = individual transistor solenoid drivers, most had burned up, to instead, = four of the ULN2803 drivers. They are simple to use, very forgiving and = cheap. They will be triggered by either the optical outputs of a player = or the keyboard reeds described above.   John A  
(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Subject: Keyboard technology question? From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 20:36:09 -0600   Larry has hit the two major reasons why magnetic reed switches aren't widely used for manual keyboard contacts. Keytails are usually just too small and close together -- it's difficult to get any odd reed switch to react to *only* its intended permanent magnet, in any sort of reliable fashion. For the same reason, there would be little or no room for any kind of adjustments to the firing point of the switches, if you ever did manage to get them to work in the first place.   For pedalboards, OTOH, they work fine, and can even be beneficial because of the sealed contacts of the reed switches. (no more paperclip pedal cyphers! <g>) Since pedal keys are larger and farther apart, the individual magnets don't bother their neighboring switches, and can easily =   be adjusted to fire evenly and consistently.   I suppose it would be easier to make these things work right if one could SEE magnetic fields...<g>   Tim Bovard Little Rock   At 10:21 AM 2/6/2004 -0500, Larry Chace wrote: >John Ball asked about the use of reed switches and small but powerful >permanent magnets on keyboards. A couple of things come to mind: > >1. Be sure that the switches aren't affected by their neighbors' magnets. >This is sometimes a problem in some stoptab actions that use reed = switches. > >2. Be sure that there is a good way to adjust the firing point of the >switches on a per-key basis.