PipeChat Digest #150 - Monday, December 1, 1997
 
Re: Organ Music In Sydney - December 1997
  by <PHarri5833@aol.com>
Re: MIDI Pedalboard (was: Price of Instruments Nowadays!)
  by Jim Saenger <chamade@Early.COM>
Re: MIDI Pedalboard (Article swiped from the web.)
  by Nelson and Tracy Denton <ndenton434@bigwave.ca>
Re: MIDI Pedalboard (was: Price of Instruments Nowadays!)
  by Adam Levin <alevin@advance.net>
Organ Music n Sydney - RESEND
  by Sheridan Mascall <sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au>
Re: MIDI Pedalboard (was: Price of Instruments Nowadays!)
  by Jim Saenger <chamade@Early.COM>
Re: Pipe/Electronic Combos
  by Joyce Weaver <JWeaver@foxvalley.net>
Recording of Wanamaker Organ
  by KARL W KELLER <kwkeller@juno.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Organ Music In Sydney - December 1997 From: PHarri5833@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:03:04 -0500 (EST)   My award for ther largest format of text ever to appear in an email sent to me goes to sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au (Sheridan Mascall) for his Bulletin on Christmas Music in Sydney!   Even the adverts that are mailed out for porn web sites havn't achieved such "loudness" on my screen!   Peter Harrison, Ramsbottom, UK  
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI Pedalboard (was: Price of Instruments Nowadays!) From: "Jim Saenger" <chamade@Early.COM> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 10:37:25 PST   For sale:   New MIDI pedalboard controller, 32 notes, AGO, oak, fully touch sensitive, with bench $4200.00 New MIDI pedalboard controller kit (requires pedalboard) $1688.00 Used MIDI pedalboard, with adjustable bench $3800.00   FOB Topton, Pennsylvania   Hill House Topton, Pennsylvania Chamade@early.com Fax 610 682 4666             ---------- > Bob Luderer wrote: > > >So you buy that, plus an MIDI controller keyboard, PLUS a MIDI pedal > >board, ... > > Bob, > > A church I worked for was planning major repairs and expansion of its > organ. I was asked to purchase a synthesizer to be used during the > one-year period the organ would be unplayable. I tried to locate a > 32-note MIDI pedal-board to use with this synthesizer. I could not > find any. There are 12-note controllers (Fatar), if remember I > correctly. But no 32-note MIDI Pedalboards that could be easily > connected to a synthesizer(I would have been happy with a 30-note > or 25-note pedalboard). If you know of any please let me know. > > Kurt Kehler > York, PA > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI Pedalboard (Article swiped from the web.) From: Nelson and Tracy Denton <ndenton434@bigwave.ca> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:14:40         I Found this buried deep on the web   Thought i'd pass it along to those who want info on such things.   Check out my web pages @ http://www.freeyellow.com/members/radentonson/index.html   For all your needs on links to just about everything "organic"   Nelson   As a pipe organ builder I'd say the article is very accurate. The prices given are about right. Used pedalboards are very common. I'd make new ones for you for a good price but i'm very busy -Sorry. . .   Check out my web page on organ builders for a company near you.   The Syncordia intl site is down according to my browser at this time so I can't get to it.   Don't you just love the web - All that info at a single keystroke away - and you can't get there from here :-((((((   #######################################################################   Path: cbfsb!att!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.u texas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!wang!gozer!stauff!ed From: ed@stauff.UUCP (Edward L. Stauff) Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: MIDI Pedalboard -- how I built one Message-ID: <NkX671w164w@stauff.UUCP> Date: 24 Aug 91 02:46:46 GMT Organization: Minstrelsy & Lutherie Lines: 153   In response to several recent inquiries, I hereby submit this posting. Please send replies to rec.music.synth, comp.music, or the address in my .signature.     * * * An Organ-Pedal MIDI Controller * * *   -- How I done it, and how U can do it 2. --     In 1990, after years of idle doodling, designing, and procrastinating, I built a MIDI pedal controller that features (almost) full AGO compass and velocity. This article describes the what, how, where, why, and how much.   Why build one? -------------- Why, indeed. As recent articles have indicated, there is (to my knowledge) no commercially available add-on MIDI pedalboard that even remotely conforms to AGO (American Guild of Organists) specifications. In practical terms, AGO specifications means 32 pedals (C-G), though 30 or even 27 notes may be enough; and full-length (around 30") pedals, not the stubby spinet-style things. The pedalboard should also be concave and radiating. I have seen at least one spinet-style MIDI pedalboard of around 18 short pedals: totally useless for playing organ literature, or anything other than the most rudimentary bass line. (Okay, the last phrase is an opinion.) Full MIDI pedalboards are available on top-of-the-line electronic organs, but you have to pay several or many thousands of dollars for such a thing. So, the purpose of the project was to obtain, at a reasonable cost, a MIDI pedalboard on which "the literature" could be performed.   The necessary components: ------------------------- In order to construct a MIDI pedalboard, one needs the following components:   1. a pedalboard 2. a computer (almost any microprocessor will do) 3. an interface between the pedalboard and the computer 4. some sort of interface to generate MIDI (a programmable UART will do)   While it is possible to generate MIDI output without the use of a computer of some sort, I wouldn't want to try it. Even on a dare. As it happened, I had an IBM PC clone at my disposal, and an MPU-401 clone: so much for (2) and (4).   Where to get a pedalboard: -------------------------- I also had an old 3rd or 4th-hand pedalboard on hand which I acquired some years ago by being in the right place at the right time. If you want a pedalboard and don't know where to look, I highly recommend contacting one or more of the following in your area:   1. Pipe-organ builders, tuners, and technicians. 2. If you can't find (1) in the phone book, find a church that has a pipe organ. Somebody has to tune the thing and fix it when it breaks. 3. Theatre-organ clubs.   New pedalboards can be obtained from pipe-organ supply companies, such as Organ Supply Industries and Reisner/Kimber-Allen. Expect to pay in excess of $700 for one. Expect also to get what you pay for: quality. By comparison, you can expect to pay anywhere from $0 to $200 for a used pedalboard. Here's one address:   Organ Supply Industries Box 1165 Erie, PA 16512 (814) 864-3011   Those of you with woodworking shops could try building one, though it's probably less work to find a used one. If you're bent on (or forced into) building one, a good reference is "The Contemporary American Organ" by Barnes. It includes the official AGO specifications.   The Hardware Interface ---------------------- Okay, so you've got your computer, your MIDI interface, and your pedalboard, all of which are potentially off-the-shelf parts. Now you need to attach a set of switches to the pedalboard, if it didn't come with them. If you want velocity (like I did), you'll need two switches on each pedal: one near the top of the key-travel, and another near the bottom. The software will measure the time delay between the two switches and translate it into velocity. What kind of switches? Oh. Well, I ended up rolling my own switches out of silver wire. I don't recommend it; they're messy to adjust and I had to build a box to cover and protect them. Reed switches or micro switches would probably be better. But I had to go the cheap route. Organ Supply Industries sells silver wire; don't try to use copper or steel, they'll oxidize. Had I known then what I think I know now, I would have interfaced to my PC's parallel port, which (so I am told) does in fact work bi-directionally. However, what I did was to build a card that plugs into the PC's bus, and another card that sits on the pedalboard. The two cards contain some SSI and MSI TTL IC's that, though the use of multiplexers and latches, map the 64 switches (2 per key, remember) into eight 8-bit i/o ports. I split up the circuitry into two cards so that the cable between the PC and pedalboard could be 13 wires (8 data, 3 address, power & ground) instead of 65. I won't attempt to reproduce the schematic, 'cause it's too much trouble, and also because it doesn't quite work completely. The board interferes with my floppy drive; I ended up mounting a switch to disable it so I can use the floppy. I suspect timing problems having to do with DMA, but I digress.   The Software Interface ---------------------- If you're going to do this the way I did it, I'd be happy to send you source code. For now, I'll just summarize. If you want velocity, then you need a decently fast timer interrupt: around 1 Khz. The standard PC timer interrupt is fast enough for scanning without velocity, but not with velocity. However, if you don't have velocity, then you need to perform debouncing in software. It turns out that with velocity, debouncing isn't a problem. Consider each key to have four states: up, down, going-up, and going-down. You can't really tell going-up from going-down, but you can infer it from the previous state. Use the 1 Khz timer interrupt to increment a counter, and remember the last time (counter value) when each key was up or down. When a key makes a transition from going-down to down, generate a MIDI Note On message. When a key makes a transition from going-up to up, generate a Note Off message. Oh, one more thing: you'll almost certainly want your software to echo the MIDI interface's MIDI IN to MIDI OUT at the same time -- which means merging the incoming MIDI data with the MIDI data you're generating from scanning the pedalboard. I won't go into detail on this; I'll send (or post) source code on request.   The Result ---------- Having been an organist for over 20 years, and having been into MIDI stuff for around 4, all I can say is: oh, wow! Most MIDI keyboardists can't appreciate how much more you can do (in live performance) with a pedalboard added to your rig -- until they try it. Most organists can't appreciate the possibilities that MIDI opens up -- new timbres, keyboard split points (on pedals, too!), velocity, etc., etc. -- until they try it. And for my money, there's nothing quite as exciting as playing Bach's Jig Fugue on a "pedal synthesizer": it's a whole-body sensual experience. Now, if I could just learn to play that Widor Finale...   So What's Next? --------------- A product, of course. If I were, say, Yamaha, I could easily develop and market an add-on MIDI pedalboard controller for under $1000. Now, whether I can do such a thing with my own meager resources remains to be seen. If I do, you'll see it advertised here.   Postscript: Toe Studs --------------------- I did say my pedalboard was *almost* full compass, didn't I? It turns out that what I remembered as being a 32-note pedalboard actually had 30 notes. I didn't discover this until I had the hardware mostly built. So, rather than waste 4 bits of input, I wired the spare bits to four toe studs which I mounted on the pedalboard. (Toe studs are big pushbuttons operated with the feet, found on organ consoles.) My software will send patch changes (or anything else I want) when a toe stud is pressed -- or released. The toe studs have turned out to be much more useful than the extra two notes would have been.   + - - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | Edward L. Stauff | "Specialization is for insects." | | gozer.uucp!stauff!ed | -- Lazarus Long | + - - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +       Nelson E. Denton R. A. Denton and Son Pipe Organ Builders Hamilton Ontario Canada  
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI Pedalboard (was: Price of Instruments Nowadays!) From: Adam Levin <alevin@advance.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:42:52 -0500 (EST)   On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jim Saenger wrote: > For sale: > New MIDI pedalboard controller, 32 notes, AGO, oak, fully touch sensitive, > with bench $4200.00 > New MIDI pedalboard controller kit (requires pedalboard) $1688.00 > Used MIDI pedalboard, with adjustable bench $3800.00 > FOB Topton, Pennsylvania   You *are* kidding, aren't you? I picked up a used 30 note AGO pedalboard for $50 (not including shipping) and can get the Maplin Electronics MIDI controller kit for around $300 or so. That's all that's needed. I doubt a bench costs $2400, adjustable or not...   -Adam      
(back) Subject: Organ Music n Sydney - RESEND From: sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au (Sheridan Mascall) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 07:05:33 +1100   Hi everyone,   Please find attached a resend in plain text of the organ diary for December. The previous was an experiment - obviously not all mail systems can cope with html formatting.   I'm still trying to work out a way that I can display the information as it appears in the actual printed leaflet.   Thanks for all the feedback, pro and con.   Regards, ~Sheridan~         Organ Music in Sydney for December 1997   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-   Thursday 4th St. Andrew's Cathedral 1:15pm George Street, Sydney   Lawrence Bartlett Senior Canon, St Andrew's Cathedral   Four Chorale Preludes for Advent.........J S Bach (i) Nun komm' der Heiden Heiland (ii) Gottes Sohn ist kommen (iii) Herr Christ, der ein'ge Gottes-Sohn (iv) Lob sei dem allmächtigen Gott Three Characteristic Pieces............J Langlais (i) Pastorale - Prelude (ii) Interlude (iii) Bells Towards Evening....................Dulcie Holland Choral Song and Fugue..................S S Wesley   Tel: (02) 9265-1661 Admission: Free   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thursday 11th St. Andrew's Cathedral 1:15pm George Street, Sydney   Mark Quarmby Assistant Organist, St Andrew's Cathedral   In dulci jubilo BWV 729.................J S Bach Yuletide Carols for Organ..............Dale Wood (i) In dulci jubilo (ii) Carol of the Manger (iii)Christmas is here (iv) Forest Green (v) Sussex Carol Variations on Adeste Fideles........Marcel Dupré   Tel: (02) 9265-1661 Admission: Free   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sunday 14th St. Finbar's Church 7:30pm 46 Levy St, Glenbrook   An Evening of Music and Readings for Christmas   featuring the Warrimoo Chorale, St. Finbar's School Choir, Amy Johansen and Robert Ampt (organ) and Helen Blunt (trumpet)   The Christmas story in words and music, with special arrangements of popular carols for all to sing.   Tel: (02) 4758 6067 Admission by donation   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-   Tuesday 16th Sydney Town Hall 12:15pm George St, Sydney   Robert Ampt, organ Celeste Lazarenko, soprano Music For Christmas   Joy to the world (organ & soprano)....Arr. Ampt In Dulci Jublio BWV 751 (organ)....... J.S.Bach He Shall Feed His Flock (organ & soprano).. G.F.Handel Australian Christmas Suite for Organ...... Ampt five of the Australian Christmas carols by J.Wheeler (i) Merry Christmas (ii) The silver stars are in the sky (iii)Carol of the Birds (iv) The day that Christ was born on (v) Christmas Day   Interval 1:15pm Fanfare (organ)........................ Lemmens O Holy Night (organ & soprano).............Adam In Dulci Jubilo BWV 608 (organ)........J.S.Bach Infant Holy (organ & soprano).Trad Polish Carol God rest you merry, Gentlemen (organ)... Rutter Community Carols   Tel: (02) 4758 6067 Admission free   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thursday 18th St. Andrew's Cathedral 1:15pm George Street, Sydney   Brett McKern Organist, Strathfield Uniting Church   Three Chorale Preludes...................J S Bach (i)Lobt Gott, ihr Christen, allzugleich BWV 609 (ii)Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ BWV 604 (iii)Herr Christ, der ein'ge Gottes-Sohn BWV 601 Wachet auf BWV 645.......................J S Bach Noël étranger..........................L C Daquin Christmas Cradle Song...................A Hollins Hallelujah.............................G F Handel   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-   Thursday 25th Christmas Day NO RECITAL at ST. ANDREW'S   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-   JANUARY 1 New Year's Day NO RECITAL at ST. ANDREW'S   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-   Organs Featured This Month   SYDNEY TOWN HALL Hill & Son Built 1886-1889 Five manuals, 126 stops   ST ANDREW'S CATHEDRAL Hill & Son, 1866, Whiteley, 1922 (rebuilt into one organ by Hill, Norman and Beard, 1952) Four manuals, 77 stops Only a portion of the Cathedral organ the 1922 Whiteley organ in the northern transept) is currently playable due to the removal to Canada of the 1866 Hill organ (from the southern transept) for restoration and reconstruction as a new four manual mechanical action instrument by Orgues Létourneau. The computerised registration system has also been removed for inclusion in the new organ.   ST FINBAR'S CATHOLIC CHURCH Built Hele, 1881 Two manuals, 21 stops   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-   All events correct at time of publication and subject to change without notice.   Please note that there will be no January edition of this brochure due to the holidays. Material to be included in the February edition must be received by 19 January 1998   Contact: Sheridan Mascall Tel: 9451-8275 Fax: 9997-7764 email: sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au Produced with the cooperation of: Organ Society of Sydney Sydney City Council Sydney Conservatorium of Music   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI Pedalboard (was: Price of Instruments Nowadays!) From: "Jim Saenger" <chamade@Early.COM> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 18:22:57 PST   Dear Adam,   I am *not* kidding at all with retail prices for new custom equipment. Yes, used pedalboards can be had for nothing or next to nothing and then you usually have to redo them, fit contacts, make judgement calls, etc. Check out the prices of raw benches and pedalboards from various suppliers; you will be surprised at the price and apalled by the quality. As far as I am concerned, even new equipment needs to be completely reworked to make an acceptable product.   Time adds up quickly with custom equipment, which is not made in production runs. Also, don't forget the actual specifications, such as touch sensitivity, adjustable second touch, tracker-type toggle, silent returns, finish, etc. Of course I'd like to think that design costs nothing, but that is also not at all realistic.   The rig you describe would probably be acceptable for many, if not even most, organist users. That's why an ultra-simple kit is available (The installer needs to set only two (2) screws in the wood of the pedalboard.), intended for use with used or preexisting pedalboards. The kit is also touch sensitive. Otherwise, initial development of the complete MIDI pedalboard controller was for a serious MIDI user who happens to be an organist, so a lot of the developed features are user-specific. A production item would be a lot less expensive. I'd be happy to explore a production item, but would also like to have an exchange of thoughts regarding specifications and features. One concern is making a rig which is reasonably easy to ship, store and move.     Jim Saenger     ---------- > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jim Saenger wrote: > > For sale: > > New MIDI pedalboard controller, 32 notes, AGO, oak, fully touch sensitive, > > with bench $4200.00 > > New MIDI pedalboard controller kit (requires pedalboard) $1688.00 > > Used MIDI pedalboard, with adjustable bench $3800.00 > > FOB Topton, Pennsylvania > > You *are* kidding, aren't you? I picked up a used 30 note AGO pedalboard > for $50 (not including shipping) and can get the Maplin Electronics MIDI > controller kit for around $300 or so. That's all that's needed. I doubt > a bench costs $2400, adjustable or not... > > -Adam > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe/Electronic Combos From: Joyce Weaver <JWeaver@foxvalley.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:21:52 -0600       >Although I am not fond of electronics, I can see the sales possibility of   >a basic pipe organ with 32 and maybe even 16 foot sounds coming from   >electronics as well as a battery of exotic reeds. My concern would be how   >well do the electronics and speakers age. Would the sound still be good   >say 15 to 20 years from now.   >   >Anybody have any experience with a beast like this.   >     The First Congregational Church in Crystal Lake, IL has a fairly new (featured in The Diapason within the last year) organ by a builder in Champaign, IL (J.P. Buzard ??) which is all pipe except for the two electronic 32 foot ranks. They are Peterson generators, if I remember right, and are the same timbre at different volume levels. I believe I was told that the installed cost was $8000 for the generators and speakers. They work very well with the rest of the instrument. I didn't see the speakers but seem to remember hearing that they were bigger than 15" diameter.     I've played it twice, and expect to play it again once or twice over Christmas break. My teacher is a member of the church (he plays elsewhere, the organist has been there a <underline>very</underline> long time) and can occasionally arrange for me to play it. He claims that his motivation for doing this is to keep me unhappy with electronic instruments :-).     In terms of aging of speakers and electronics, that should be like any electronic instrument. Very occasionally a part will go bad, capacitors most often, and the suspension of the speaker cone will probably decay with age. We've had to replace all the 15 inch speakers in the Allen in our church but they lasted for 20 some years. We had 8 of them, and Allen charged us $150 each.     Loren Weaver  
(back) Subject: Recording of Wanamaker Organ From: kwkeller@juno.com (KARL W KELLER) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:06:05 EST   I just acquired a CD entitled "Lord & Taylor Presents Christmas in the Grand Tradition". This is a Vantage release VCD 6314 and produced by Alan Botto.   The notes do not include the name/s of the organist/s who played for this recording. Do any of our list members have any information on this subject ? The notes only make a passing reference to the name "Wanamaker" by saying "the organ was purchased by Philadelphia merchandising pioneer John Wanamaker and brought to his Philadelphia department store".   Karl Musica est Dei donum optimi