PipeChat Digest #177 - Saturday, December 27, 1997
 
Let it snow!
  by Mark Quarmby <markq@mail.flex.com.au>
John Gordon Seely
  by Steve Fox <sfox@eskimo.com>
Re: Let it snow!
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: John Gordon Seely
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Boston Pops (a response)
  by Shirley <pnst@itw.com>
Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by Robert Shumway <rshumway@iamerica.net>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by <danbel@earthlink.net>
Re: Let it snow!
  by Sheridan Mascall <sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by Shirley <pnst@itw.com>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by Shirley <pnst@itw.com>
PipeChat tonight??
  by Myosotis51 <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Help!
  by JILLIAN SCHULTHEIS <organgeek@geocities.com>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by Roger <pamnroy@wolfenet.com>
Re: Let it snow!
  by Judy A. Ollikkala <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by <danbel@earthlink.net>
Re: Let it snow!
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: Let it snow!
  by FireAlarmz <FireAlarmz@aol.com>
Re: Boston Pops Concert
  by Otto Pebworth <opebwrth@gte.net>
Re: Fiedler, Williams ,Lockhart & Organ!
  by Robert M. Zat <zbobat@aa.net>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by Otto Pebworth <opebwrth@gte.net>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by Shirley <pnst@itw.com>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by <krumet@ibm.net>
Re: Let it snow!
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Let it snow!
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Fiedler, Williams ,Lockhart & Organ!
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
W. L. Neidlinger
  by Morton Belcher III <flcg1018@fujens.fju.edu.tw>
Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart
  by Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net>
 


(back) Subject: Let it snow! From: markq@mail.flex.com.au (Mark Quarmby) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:23:46 +1000   >I almost envy you. After so many days recently of 30 or near 30 degree >heat snow >would make a welcome change.   >Duncan Charig   For a moment this afternoon, I thought we were going to have a white Christmas (well Boxing Day anyway) here in Sydney too as it began to hail!   Cheers,       Mark      
(back) Subject: John Gordon Seely From: Steve Fox <sfox@eskimo.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 07:56:52 -0800 (PST)   Vici Ceruti wrote:   "Do you have any info on John Seely, the composer? I knew a man by that name quite well. He was a piano tech in the Westhampton area of Long Island. I was wondering if it could possibly be the same person - the man I knew was born c. 1910."   My father, Valerian Fox, studied organ with him sometime in the 1930's and possibly 1940's in Toledo Ohio. My grandfather, Norbert Fox, started teaching my dad but passed the "baton" on to Mr. Seely. Here's what my aunt wrote to me a few months ago about this:   "My father sent him to study organ with John Gordon Seely, who was the organist and choir director of Trinity Episcopal church in downtown Toledo. Mr. Seely and my father met for lunch every Tuesday. Mr Seely had a cute sense of humor and Valerian would come home and regale us with stories from Seely. The two liked each other - sort of a father-son relationship."   BTW, my grandfather was O/C at the RC cathedral in Toledo until his death in 1954, and my father was O/C at the RC cathedral in Portland OR until his death in 1985.   I would be interested in any other details about Mr. Seely. Email me privately, and I'll summarize and post it to the list.   Steve (apologizing for the cross-post; this started in pipechat but seems to be appropriate for piporg-l also)      
(back) Subject: Re: Let it snow! From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:48:09 -0500   Ya really have to be specific when ya pray!!!   I prayed real, REAL, hard for lots of snow. Well, my prayer was answered even here in central Florida. H..O..W..E..V..E..R..... I guess I forgot to mention that I wanted very cold weather, too. Yes indeedy.... you know what happens to snow when it is in the 70's outside; it poured and poured and poured and, oh,yes, God even laughed in the form of thunder (must have been reeeeeeeealy tickled) during Midnight Mass; sent me a fresh load of snow-mix on Christmas Day, too. My plants is happy (sigh)! and the leaves have been washed off the roof (except over my patio door -- they are waiting patiently to dry out and then dump on the patio). Well, the Christmas Recital went well, and I even got my picture on the front page (small) above the "contents";, and a large picture on the front page of the Local section of the Gainesville Sun (well, she did say it was a slow news day )hehehe). I am enjoying Boxing Day, sitting in the living room in a box, lid shut, resting quietly. It all starts over again on Saturday!!! mama!   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: Re: John Gordon Seely From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:10:29 -0500   Thanks Steve. I look forward to you findings. By the way, the Seely "Christmas Reverie" was the listener favorite of the day.   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: Re: Boston Pops (a response) From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 13:30:43   At 11:41 12/24/97 -0500, Charlie Jack wrote:   > In my original posting I mentioned that he is also the conductor >of the Boston Symphony Youth Concerts. Now there's a mission that is >super critical these days. After its founder Harry Ellis Dickson >retired it was the domain of whatever assistant conductor the BSO had >at the time and it suffered accordingly. The programs weren't bad but >there was nobody to draw young people and their parents to the >concerts. The hall is now filled for all the concerts thanks to Keith. >You can't expose children to live orchestral music if they don't come.     Very true. Charisma counts for a lot, unfortunately, in attracting large audiences and therefore, a higher bottom line for sponsors. The most successful theatre organists, for example, have a good "stage presence". Doesn't matter there if they're good musicians or not most times, only if they're good entertainers. But that's another ball of wax entirely, and that's not a thread I want to start or get into.   Our interim organist at Abington, Glenn Miller (who I've written about before) is one of those personable sorts. When he first came to Abington on the Sunday after Easter, the console was still "down", close to the congregation. His first works of Prelude and Postlude were from concert repertoire. His playing not only got the attention of the trained musicians in this church, of which there are many, but also of the general congregation. I was thrilled to see the music brought to the congregation who would not normally be exposed to organ music up close and personal like this. And Glenn, though surrounded by onlookers crowding to get a better view of hands and pedalling, played like there were no distractions whatsoever.   Part of his job is to accompany the children's choirs (two). And his fun-loving sense of humor shone through to these young children as well.   When he played his solo organ concert a few months ago, the church was mobbed. Public notice did not make it out to the AGO chapters here, so the people who attended were all church people and those on the mailing list of the concert series.   And there were CHILDREN there. CHILDREN coming to an organ concert, and being able to sit through it without a noise. And the kids who came home from college JUST FOR THAT PROGRAM.... what a difference Glenn has made here. He's brought organ music to the "commoner".   Biff Claflin, may he rest in peace, was also a very good musician.... but a bit aloof. While approachable, he always seemed to keep a respectable distance away from the "commoner". And I suspect many more of us are of that ilk. I guess we figure the people don't understand what we're doing.... and most times, they don't. But how will they learn, if we don't provide the opportunities and encouragement for them to grow?   On our "Music at Abington" series this season, Michael Kemp has scheduled his second orchestral children's concert here. The last one was promoted through the school system, and the sanctuary was packed. I hope this one is as enthusiastically received.   Peace to all, Shirley  
(back) Subject: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: Robert Shumway <rshumway@iamerica.net> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:40:02 -0600   >As a Canadian, I have enjoyed watching the pops on TV and attending their >concerts for almost 40 years. How were Messrs. Fiedler and Williams >originally received? I really didn't like Mr. Williams as much as his >predecessor but that's just my opinion. I still fully enjoyed a pops concert >under his control and I continue to enjoy them under Mr. Lockhart. > How Wonderful! To find that we are not alone in our personal opinion. We enjoyed Fiedler's selections, presentations and arangements even tho he personally seemed a little overbearing.   Williams simply drove us away from the Pop's concerts alltogether. There was a sameness, a heavyness, a loud driving brass sound that was altogether the hallmark of Williams. Bluntly - he was tiresome.   Should Lockhart be able to revive the beautiful variety and rainbow of arangements that Fiedler used then perhaps he can lure back the many deserters that Williams caused.   Who cares about Lockhart's "stick" or his musicianship. By the time a selection passes the rehersal phase every true musician in that orchestra should need the conductor only for the downbeat.    
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: danbel@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 13:37:18 -0800 (PST)     >Who cares about Lockhart's "stick" or his musicianship. By the time >a selection passes the rehersal phase every true musician in that >orchestra should need the conductor only for the downbeat.   Dear sir....   There are MANY people who care about a conductors stick technique and CERTAINLY about his musicianship. If someone doesn't care at least about the MUSICIANSHIP of a man who leads an orchestra like the Boston Pops then that person should ABSOLUTELY NEVER have the gall to comment on anything else to do with this topic or anything else having to do with music ---   Dan    
(back) Subject: Re: Let it snow! From: sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au (Sheridan Mascall) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:42:51 +1100   Mark Quarmby wrote:   > >I almost envy you. After so many days recently of 30 or near 30 > degree > >heat snow >would make a welcome change. > > >Duncan Charig > > For a moment this afternoon, I thought we were going to have a white > Christmas (well Boxing Day anyway) here in Sydney too as it began to > hail! > > Cheers, > > Mark >   *Did* it??? Wow. That's twice in one week, folks. Friday the 19th it hailed so badly that my husband's smash repair shop has 12 months of work to come back to after his vacation. We didn't get the hail here, Mark, yesterday. ~Sheridan~      
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:51:49   At 14:40 12/26/97 -0600, Robert Shumway wrote:   >Who cares about Lockhart's "stick" or his musicianship. By the time >a selection passes the rehersal phase every true musician in that >orchestra should need the conductor only for the downbeat.     Um, excuse me, but "who cares about [a conductor's] musicianship"? Well, it seems to me that every conductor should at the very least be well versed in performance practices of each era of orchestral musical history. And the interpretations of same should be audience-pleasing as well as MUSICALLY correct.....   It's this young man's lack of experience and his youth, however, that will contrast most with Fiedler and Williams. Experience and age tend to build strong foundation in both programming and interpretation. Youth and enthusiasm are fine... as long as there is also someone in the sidelines who can serve as mentor to steer this in the right direction. May Mr. Lockhart never lose the enthusiasm he has for music, and for what he does.   --Shirley  
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:55:14   At 13:37 12/26/97 -0800, Dan wrote:   >Dear sir.... > >There are MANY people who care about a conductors stick technique and >CERTAINLY about his musicianship. If someone doesn't care at least about >the MUSICIANSHIP of a man who leads an orchestra like the Boston Pops,,, (rest mercifully snipped)     Dan, and anyone else who wants to jump in on this one:   Define "musicianship". Define "musicality".   :)   --Shirley  
(back) Subject: PipeChat tonight?? From: Myosotis51 <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:43:40 EST   Is there going to be PipeChat IRC tonight? Was wondering, on account of the holidaze....     Vicki Ceruti Myosotis51@aol.com  
(back) Subject: Help! From: JILLIAN SCHULTHEIS <organgeek@geocities.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:05:44 -0500   I cant get on the new server for Irc.... It says i have an invalid nick.   Jillian K. Schultheis organgeek@geocities.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: "Roger" <pamnroy@wolfenet.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:09:27 -0800   What really amazes me about this thread is the amount of emotion that so many fine musicians can express about what is essentially an expensive version of the Lawrence Welk band!    
(back) Subject: Re: Let it snow! From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:10:32 -0500   Bruce, It better not snow in Florida, I'm coming down to Jupiter on Monday for 1 1/2 weeks, and we have 20 inches on the ground right now. I hope it's gone when I come back, but that's unlikely, we have had winter since Nov. first, after a dry fall. It was so icy Christmas morning early that I didn't make it to North Oxford for a sub. 9am Mass. They winged it. Sounds like you overdid, with a Christmas afternoon concert on top of all those Masses?  
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: danbel@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:35:57 -0800 (PST)   At 05:09 PM 12/26/97 -0800, you wrote: >What really amazes me about this thread is the amount of emotion that so >many fine musicians can express about what is essentially an expensive >version of the Lawrence Welk band!   Get serious! The Boston Pops Orchestra is virtually the Boston Symphony Orchestra with minor personnel differences. This can hardly be thought of as the Lawrence Welk Band!   What's gotten into some people?   djb    
(back) Subject: Re: Let it snow! From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:20:40 -0500   It was great! The Christmas Day recital is my favorite of the year. I would love to be in 20 inches of snow. I am soooooooooooo homesick for Vermont.   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:08:03 -0800   At 17:51 12/26/97, Shirley wrote: > >It's this young man's lack of experience and his youth, however, that will >contrast most with Fiedler and Williams. Experience and age tend to build >strong foundation in both programming and interpretation. Youth and >enthusiasm are fine... as long as there is also someone in the sidelines >who can serve as mentor to steer this in the right direction. May Mr. >Lockhart never lose the enthusiasm he has for music, and for what he does. >   Remember also the old saw: Old Age and Treachery will overcome Youth and Skill...     _________________________________ Regards, | | | U U U U U | Bob | U UUUUU U | | U _______________ U | | U _______________ U | | U _______________ U |          
(back) Subject: Re: Let it snow! From: FireAlarmz <FireAlarmz@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:32:06 EST   Uh, Bruce: The grass is always...   If you had 20" of snow, would you have gone to your organ recital? Would anyone else have?   Hmmm... Bill Miller  
(back) Subject: Re: Boston Pops Concert From: Otto Pebworth <opebwrth@gte.net> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:13:36 +0000   Shirley wrote: >   > 2) Schedule a piece that calls for smaller orchestra, perhaps with *no* > percussion. > 3) Schedule other pieces in the program that call for fewer percussions. > Not everything needs 4 timpani, a drum set, chimes, Chinese gong, > orchestra bells, marimba, xylophone, and band-sized bass drum..... :) >   I seem to recall Virgil Fox having absolutely *no* problems being on stage with the full orchestra and doing the **complete** Jongen work...  
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler, Williams ,Lockhart & Organ! From: zbobat@aa.net (Robert M. Zat) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:22:20 -0800     I watched this whole program unfold and as always saw the Organ Pipes in the background on every shot. How clever those producers, directors, technical directors and camera people. However my BIG dissappointment in hearing all of this beautiful music was the lack of any use of the organ. WHY? I give up! Even if Fiedler were alive, I don't remember him using the organ and the same goes for John Williams. Bad dogs, no biscuit!   Comments welcome.   Bob Zat      
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: Otto Pebworth <opebwrth@gte.net> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:29:07 +0000   danbel@earthlink.net wrote:   > > There are MANY people who care about a conductors stick technique and > CERTAINLY about his musicianship. If someone doesn't care at least about > the MUSICIANSHIP of a man who leads an orchestra like the Boston Pops then > that person should ABSOLUTELY NEVER have the gall to comment on anything > else to do with this topic or anything else having to do with music --- > > Dan >     You know, the tone of this reminds me of a time several years ago, when, just out of high school; I was invited to play at a Christmas celebration at a state capitol. A bell choir and soloists were also there, so there was quite an assemblidge of musical talents. How sad it was for me when the director of the bell choir stomped over after the program and told me that my playing was "the most disgraceful she had ever experienced." I was heartbroken until someone reminded me that it was I that had been invited to play, not another; and that the people were singing the carols.   I dropped another mailing list because of jealous flaming. I guess this one shall go, also.   Bye.  
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:27:38 EST   In a message dated 97-12-26 18:10:07 EST, you write:   << Define "musicianship". Define "musicality". >>   What is truth? What is beauty?   "Delicious is a long drink of cool water when you're very, very thirsty" Natalie Babbit "The Search for Delicious"  
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:43:33   At 22:27 12/26/97 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-26 18:10:07 EST, you write: > ><< Define "musicianship". > Define "musicality". > >> > >What is truth? What is beauty?   And what is love?   Ah, yes, but there are still concrete ways to describe "musicality." What does it mean when someone says "S/he's so musical!"?   --shirley  
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:04:39 -0800   At 22:29 12/26/97 +0000, Otto Pebworth wrote: >You know, the tone of this reminds me of a time several years ago, when, >just out of high school; I was invited to play at a Christmas celebration at a >state capitol. A bell choir and soloists were also there, so there was quite >an assemblidge of musical talents. How sad it was for me when the director >of the bell choir stomped over after the program and told me that my >playing was "the most disgraceful she had ever experienced." I was >heartbroken until someone reminded me that it was I that had been invited >to play, not another; and that the people were singing the carols.   This reminds me of a time when I was still IN high school, and was playing for a church in San Francisco. I was having a particularly bad evening, and making more than my usual percentage of errors, when one of the choir members (who was also the pastors wife, and a harpist (I resist the temptation to call her a 'harpy', even though she was one)) said very loudly, "Oh, Bob, YOU know you can do better than that!". I was, by that time, quite fed up (this was not her first comment) and equally loudly said, "If you would like to come down here and make an ass of yourself trying to play, please be my guest...!" I didn't hear another comment from her ever!     _________________________________ Regards, | | | U U U U U | Bob | U UUUUU U | | U _______________ U | | U _______________ U | | U _______________ U |          
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: krumet@ibm.net Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:20:46 -0500   > And what is love? > > Ah, yes, but there are still concrete ways to describe "musicality." What > does it mean when someone says "S/he's so musical!"? > > --shirley   I have always felt that this refers to the performance having "emotion" and "heart" in the music. This would certainly exclude those who seem intent on playing something so dead on as written -- without any room for interpretation -- in other words BORING!!!   Music must be FELT!!!   Music must make the LISTENER feel!!!   Good comparison Biggs VS Fox....sorry-- best example I can think of.   Joe  
(back) Subject: Re: Let it snow! From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 00:02:18 -0500   With 20" of snow people will still go where they want to go. If not at least they have something glorious to look at. Besides, have you ever tried making mud angels in the yard???   Give me SNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: Re: Let it snow! From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 00:03:20 -0500   Gee! I almost missed that bit about the grass being greener.......   Perhaps, except when there is SNOOOOOOW!   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler, Williams ,Lockhart & Organ! From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 00:05:55 -0500   I had the same disappointment while watching the Harlem Boy Choir at Mechanic's Hall; there sat this wonderful organ... silent! And what an opportunity to show these boys not only a significant piece of history but something they are not normally exposed to anyway.   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: W. L. Neidlinger From: Morton Belcher III <flcg1018@fujens.fju.edu.tw> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:09:48 +0800 (TAIST)           A Christmas anthem of years past that I recently saw in a post that at least one choir was singing was:   W. L. Neidlinger Birthday of a King     I first became familiar with Neidlinger when I heard a composition by Mr. Neidlinger at a small church in Ashland, Virginia, when the choir of mostly women launched into one of his Benedicte Omnia Opera (in G), which in this present age reminds me of the simplified chant style of certain chants found in the Episcopalian Hymnal 1982.     My question is: Mr. Neidlinger used to serve as an organist/choirmaster in New York City. I'm told that the church was in the upper part of Manhattan... not as far up as Columbia.... but on the upper west side...   If anyone can come up with any information about Neidlinger, I would be interested in receiving it.   Christmas is over, and I have been thinking of those of you who have only a few ranks to deal with----as well as those of you who may have a larger selection of ranks to deal with--- as you do your best throughout the year with your musical offerings... I feel sure each person on this list did his/her best at Christmas with your resources at hand to put forth a worthy musical offering...   Best wishes to all for the coming year.   Feel free to e-mail me directly, please at flcg1018@fujens.fju.edu.tw         Morton Belcher          
(back) Subject: Re: Fiedler vs Williams vs Lockhart From: Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 01:32:05 -0800   At 23:20 12/26/97 -0500, krumet@ibm.net wrote: >I have always felt that this refers to the performance having "emotion" >and "heart" in the music. This would certainly exclude those who seem >intent on playing something so dead on as written -- without any room >for interpretation -- in other words BORING!!! > >Music must be FELT!!! > >Music must make the LISTENER feel!!! > >Good comparison Biggs VS Fox....sorry-- best example I can think of. >   San Francisco organist Ludwig Altman was a fine technician, but I always got the feeling that I was listening to a player piano...Got all the right notes, & got them in the right order, but NO emotion...     _________________________________ Regards, | | | U U U U U | Bob | U UUUUU U | | U _______________ U | | U _______________ U | | U _______________ U |