PipeChat Digest #60 - Friday, September 5, 1997
 
 


(back) Subject: French Noels From: Ronnymn@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:49:54 -0400 (EDT)   A bit early to be thinking of these, but I need lotsa lead time. Can anyone suggest some cd recording of these that they feel would be particularly good to listen to for interpretive guidance. Either all Daquin or assorted. I not only enjoy these, but they seem to me uniquely "fun" to play. Any suggestions about their performance etc. would be appreciated. tks  
(back) Subject: Re: French Noels From: Harold Stover <Stovorg@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:16:13 +0000   Daquin: Nouveau Livre de Noels; Christopher Herrick on the 1739 Pazirot organ of the Church of St. Remy de Dieppe; Hyperion CDA66816    
(back) Subject: Re: Funeral Service of Diana Princess of Wales From: SCoonrod@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:37:28 -0400 (EDT)   Well y'all,   I think that unfortunately for all of us, the tragic situation with Princess Diana is so unexpected and so sad, and has obviously so touched the people of the UK as well as the world, that her funeral cannot be the usual anglican "pomp"   I am Episcopalian and traditional in my views of church music. However Diana was anything but usual, so I feel good that there will be such beautiful offerings at the one to be offered by Elton John.   It will be interesting to see what happens. In any case my prayers are with those who are most upset, and especially her children. (RandyT)      
(back) Subject: My two cents worth From: "basset3@warwick.net" <u1005593@warwick.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:17:38 -0700   First, I agree with the sentiments just expressed by the post from "RandyT." Secondly, in response to earlier postings, yes I once considered my proscriptions of what the Church should and should not be to be infallible and was quick to speak out and issue encyclicals on the subject. However, I have since mellowed out and made room in my heart and mind for a variety of religious expression. People respond to God in many different ways as they feel called within their hearts to do. I cannot invalidate anyone's sincere expression of faith or dictate how they choose to express that faith. Personally, I adhere to the Anglican tradition; but, I can also be flexible within that structure if circumstances call for it. In this case I feel it is appropriate. [My time is now up -- Robert Clooney]  
(back) Subject: Re: French Noels From: Rick Williams <Rick@netlink.nlink.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:26:25 -0500   I have a very nice recording titled Noels Pour Orgue by Marie Claire Alain. Unfortunately, I am at the office now, however, if you're interested, I can look up the number and forward it to you.   >>> <Ronnymn@aol.com> 09/05/97 05:49AM >>> A bit early to be thinking of these, but I need lotsa lead time. Can anyone suggest some cd recording of these that they feel would be particularly good to listen to for interpretive guidance. Either all Daquin or assorted. I not only enjoy these, but they seem to me uniquely "fun" to play. Any suggestions about their performance etc. would be appreciated. tks   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Funeral Service of Diana Princess of Wales From: "Richard Scott-Copeland" <organist@interalpha.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:04:52 +0100   Dear All,   *****FURIOUSLY CROSS BIT!!*****   Regarding the posting from Karl E Moyer I will say publicly that I have never heard such absolute rubbish. Who the hell does he think he is, Lord God Omnipotent? Well, I have news for you "buddy":--- You are going to die just like the rest of us, and hopefully, I might be around long enough to learn the guitar and play it at your funeral!   For God's sake let's not have any more of this at least until we've buried Diana and the rest of us in England have had a chance to mourn someone we held dear to our hearts.   ***Furiously cross bit over with.***   The church is there for everyone, rich and poor, black or white, the lonely, depressed and to celebrate the union of a man to a woman in Holy Matrimony and finally, to celebrate before God the lives of those who have died, like Diana, Princess of Wales doing what many believe was the work of God, here on earth. It is in the public recording of these events for our children and children's children that there will be a church for tomorrow. The church is not ours to keep, rather to nuture and to grow in our care to pass, undiminished to future generations. By accepting the performance of Elton John's music, the church is showing that, like Diana, she can be open and accessible to all kinds of worship and people. Attendences at churches the world over surely would only be increased by this demonstation of "normalness", like dear Diana demonstrated throughout her life, often flying in the face of the sometimes bigoted and stuffy surroundings and people she was placed in. This will certainly not lead to an influx of guitars, tambourines and other assorted nasty noises. It will,in fact, probably have the reverse effect, increasing the requirement for good music, well played, of all kinds, for all ceremonies and worship.   I don't remember a sign from the Lord saying that Elton John is banned, any more than the music of Bach would be banned in the Catholic Church!!!   The stuffiness of the church and some of its heirarchy is, thankfully coming inexhorably to its end.       Richard Scott-Copeland   Organist to the Catholic Dean of Southampton   ----------      
(back) Subject: Re: Funeral Service of Diana Princess of Wales From: Shirley <pnst@voicenet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:08:42   At 23:04 09/04/97 -0400, Karl Moyer wrote: >Thus, >songs of praise to God for the life of Diana would be most qppropriate, >but songs of affection, etc., hardly meet any such criteria. Thus do I >find the Elton John text offensive. The issue has nothing to do with >musical style; it has to do with our understanding of the Church and her >mission. Thus, this wedding sets a terrible example for other places that >try to keep the Church's actions consistent with her mission.   When Elton John's name first came up for a possible inclusion in this service, one comment I heard was that since Diana was Princess of the People, the music of the people should also be permitted in this service.   But I ask: Is not the music of God, and the rest of the religious music that is in this service (from the preludes through all the hymns) not the music of/by/for the people?   I was glad to see the Holst hymn included, btw. Such appropriate words.   --Shirley  
(back) Subject: Re: Funeral Service of Diana Princess of Wales From: Shirley <pnst@voicenet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:05:32   RandyT wrote:   > In any case my prayers are with >those who are most upset, and especially her children. (RandyT)     My prayers are for the future of the family as well. Diana's fun-loving informality and expressions of affection for her boys balanced Charles's more formal approach. My prayer is that William and Harry both will be able to carry on their mother's legacy into adulthood. King William, someday.... King of the People.   Sorry this is off-topic, Pete.   --Shirley  
(back) Subject: PELS organ From: Nelson and Tracy Denton <ndenton434@bigwave.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:02:27   >Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:01:50 >To: piporg-l@albany.edu >From: Nelson and Tracy Denton <ndenton434@bigwave.ca> >Subject: PELS organ > >Hi all >Has anyone ever worked on or played a PELS organ? > >I got a chance to work on one yesterday a 3 manual 13 rank unit organ circa 1960s? >I've never seen one before and I was wondering if anyone had any experiances with working on one or any info about the company? > >Thanks Nelson Nelson E. Denton R. A. Denton and Son Pipe Organ Builders Hamilton Ontario Canada  
(back) Subject: Re: Funeral Service of Diana Princess of Wales From: Terry Yount <tyount@woodbrook.org> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:21:15 -0400   At 11:04 PM 9/4/97 -0400, you wrote: > > Perhaps we're allowed to disagree on various things, including the >music for Saturday's big funeral. But consider this: > > The responsible persons have chosen to bring the funeral to >the Church; they could have chosen differently. Just as with >weddings, when one brings the service into the Church, it is the >Church's agenda and not a given person's that needs always to take >primacy. The Church exists for the sake of proclaiming the gospel, >administering the sacrements, doing works of mercy apart from the gathered >worshiping community, and perhpas a few other broadly-stated purposes. >The Church does NOT exist to glorify people. > > Music in the context of worship therefore should serve either a >sacrificial or a sacramental role or in the rarest of situations (such as >with Martin Luther's didactic hymn texts) also an instruction role. Thus, >songs of praise to God for the life of Diana would be most qppropriate, >but songs of affection, etc., hardly meet any such criteria. Thus do I >find the Elton John text offensive. The issue has nothing to do with >musical style; it has to do with our understanding of the Church and her >mission. Thus, this wedding sets a terrible example for other places that >try to keep the Church's actions consistent with her mission. > > People vary greatly, of course, in how they understand the Church >and her roles; thus do we, for example, has some clergy persons who say >that the wedding is "the bride's day, and she can have anything she >wants." One thing leads to another lots of times, and eventually that >leads to a weakening of the Church. The Church does not exist to become >the theatre for any person's glory, though too often that's precisely what >happens. > > It might have been better to plan the princess' funeral in Royal >Albert Hall, where "anything" could "go" in the plans. > > How sorry I am to be writing this. Conversely, I am prepared to >respect others' opinions that differ from mine. > > Dr. Karl E. Moyer > Lancaster PA > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > Dear Karl and others on pipechat:   From the perspective of an American observing all going on in the UK this week, I can understand the depth of emotion involved in the royal "non-state" funeral of Diana Spencer. Understanding, however, does not require agreement. I heartily agree that members of the royal family should have various personal expressions and momentos of one so dearly missed --at the funeral and later. But the real issue here is not what the royal family wants, but what the British public seems determined to do --and that is hardly in keeping with what I perceive Anglican liturgy to be about.   As one gravely concerned about the deterioration in American church music, I can agree instantly about principles of worship being violated in this event. But I see here the indomitable will of a culture so "in touch" with its feelings in public, that even Anglican tradition, regal propriety and national dignity are up for grabs. We do not agree with the press, the MTV crowd, the tabloid subculture, the talkshow pundits --nor "roll over" and play along, though there is no stopping the steamroller of electronic media (ours included). We can disagree about the liturgical values being forsaken, and agree that Diana Spencer's funeral is a unique historical, national event defying tradition by its very nature.   I offer a quote from Marva Dawn in Reaching Out Without Dumbing Down:   " We want our worship music, then, to appeal to the whole person --will, emotions, and intellect. Our goal is that worship practices will form character so that believers respond to God with commitment, love, thought, and virtuous action. The scriptures make it clear that God wants his people not just to feel good, but to be good."   Perhaps Elton John's music tomorrow will fulfill that goal, perhaps not. Yet we can join other Americans in affirming the national sorrow of a people left dazed by the death of one so cherished. May her funeral music rise above the details and incite virtuous action for many years to come.   Terry Yount in Baltimore    
(back) Subject: Re: My two cents worth From: Shirley <pnst@voicenet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:18:51   At 09:17 09/05/97 -0700, Robert Clooney wrote:   > People respond to God >in many different ways as they feel called within their hearts to do. I >cannot invalidate anyone's sincere expression of faith or dictate how >they choose to express that faith. Personally, I adhere to the Anglican >tradition; but, I can also be flexible within that structure if >circumstances call for it. In this case I feel it is appropriate. >[My time is now up -- Robert Clooney]   Many of you may recall my posting of the funeral service for Leander Chapin ("Biff") Claflin. There were a lot of us that wanted to say "goodbye" in our own musical ways. Biff's friend of many years composed, sang, and played a song that very effectively said farewell. Was it sacred or religious? No. Did it belong in that particular service? Yes. Very much so.   In like manner, I may not agree that Elton John's music belongs in Westminster Abbey, and yet this particular set of lyrics belongs in this service.   The planning team are trying to please everyone, and to strike a combination of royalty and commoner... not an easy task. It's one secular song from one secular artist.... probably could have been worse.....   My *three* cents' worth. :)   --Shirley  
(back) Subject: Re: Funeral Service of Diana Princess of Wales From: dmjd <jimdave@rnet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:20:56 -0500   Richard Scott-Copeland wrote: > > Dear All, > > *****FURIOUSLY CROSS BIT!!***** > > Regarding the posting from Karl E Moyer I will say publicly that I have > never heard such absolute rubbish. Who the hell does he think he is, Lord > God Omnipotent?   My, my, MY! Time for your valium.     > Well, I have news for you "buddy":--- > You are going to die just like the rest of us, and hopefully, I might be > around long enough to learn the guitar and play it at your funeral! >   I was very surprised at that comment until I saw that you are in the Roman branch of Catholicism. Guitars forced me out of that church.   You probably won't understand this, but we musicians of a more traditional bent suggest to prospective brides that music such as "We've only Just Begun" and "The Wedding Song" would be more appropriate at the reception. So, to The song by Elton John (and I do enjoy his music) would be more appropriate at a secular memorial service.   In any event, "buddy" it was certainly not appropriate of you to blast off in such a rude manner to Dr. Moyer for his offering HIS opinion.   Think About It.   Calmly, Jim Donovan   email: jimdave@rnet.com Rainbow Ridge Farm    
(back) Subject: Elton John, The Funeral, the royals, etc. From: Harold Stover <Stovorg@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:38:23 +0000   Hello all - My $.02s about the above, in random order: 1) Karl Moyer and I have agreed on many issues in the past, and I have no quarrels with his theology at present, but there seems to be little doubt that this is a event of great psychosocial magnitude where theory is probably going to have to play catch-up with fact ex post facto. "Times change and we are changed by them". 2) Richard Scott-Copeland's intemperate outburst is another signal of the extent to which those of us Yanks who vaguely admired the Princess and who have been astonished by the outpouring of emotion in Britain just didn't get it until now. 3) This morning's news reports that it was the Prince of Wales who prevailed in family councils about the necessity for the Queen to give her television address (which has yet to occur as I write this), reinforcing my hunch that he is a more interesting and complex person than he has usually been given credit for being, and that, given the time to learn, grow, and make mistakes that the public granted to his wife, he may still come out of this whole morass with some dignity, honor, and usefulness. 4) Analogy Of The Week award goes to Maureen Dowd of the New York Times, who wrote that the old guard of the British aristocracy must look at the flowers piling up outside Kensington Palace the way the old Soviet commissars watched the crowds tearing down the Berlin wall. 5) Elton John and the royal family have one thing in common: they are both past masters at putting on a good show. I am inclined to give Mr. John (to lapse into Timespeak) the benefit of the doubt and to wait to see if his theatrical sensibility and experience will allow him to tailor his presentation to the occasion. We'll see, but my guess is that he can pull it off. How much worse could it be than original invitee Luciano Pavarotti sweating his way through his 10,000,000th performance of some aria that is arguably more foreign to the Anglican tradition than the work of a great English songwriter? 6) The vibrations from the bass notes of funeral music will hopefully reach through the stones of the Abbey floor to stir the dust of Henry Purcell, whom I suspect would have had a rather tolerant attitude toward Mr. John's presence. 7) Elton John, Queen Elizabeth II, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother - that makes three old queens that will be there . . . Cheers, Harold    
(back) Subject: Re: Dr Moyer's Opinions From: Vernon Moeller <vernonm@ccsi.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:10:14   Colleagues:   While I greatly respect Dr Moyer and hold his opinions in high esteem (and even go so far as to agree with him on many issues), I would beg to differ with him on the issue he brought up regarding the selection of music for Princess Diana's funeral.   Please excuse my presumptuousness, but I surmise that both Dr Moyer and Hugh Drogemuller are either Anglican or Roman Catholic. I am neither. I belong to a much smaller Protestant denomination, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), which strongly believes in the value of ecumenicalism and is not driven by a sense of a rigid, unyielding liturgy.   Perhaps the attitude displayed by Dr Moyer and Mr Drogemuller will go a long way in explaining why for many years now, the Episcopal Church here in the US has earned a reputation for 'coldness,' despite the many good works of its philanthropies as well as its individual members. Perhaps it also explains, at least in part, why there are more active Muslims in the US than there are active Episcopalians, a recent bit of information I found to be quite surprising.   I believe that the Church plays an integral role in assisting grieving families to bring their grief 'full circle,' so that they can pick up the pieces of their lives and continue to be productive members of society, rather than to wallow in a state of perpetual mourning. I believe that at times like these, the Church can bend the rules as much as the family sees fit in order to help the family and friends of the deceased to attain a sense of 'productive' mourning.   And have you ever before in your life seen the world come together as one large family in agreement on one particular subject, as has been done during the last week? Probably not since the assassination of John F Kennedy, if my memory serves me correctly.   While I have never cared for Elton John or his music (I know - I'm a snob; sorry!), I was particularly touched by the words to the song he will sing tomorrow. I sincerely hope that his performance will be almost reverential in tone, so that even those of us who find his very appearance to be out-of-place in a church will come to appreciate the greater good his words and music will no doubt accomplish.   I believe that in order for the Church to grow, it must continue the tradition of sacrifice inculcated by the Master. A vibrant church must be flexible if it is to continue to grow.   Since tomorrow also marks the 2nd anniversary of my father's death, I will not view the ceremonies in London in their entirety but rather will spend most of the day working in my garden, a place where my father knew a special kind of peace.   \/\/\    
(back) Subject: Re: Funeral Service of Diana Princess of Wales From: KeithBWill@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:05:36 -0400 (EDT)   You thought that display was calm, Mr Donovan? I not-so-humbly disagree. (And this is the end of my personal commentary to Mr. Donovan)   I suggest to this List that, in respect for the dead and our UK colleagues, (as if respect should be something about which we need to be reminded), if we have nothing good to say , then, as your mothers probably (hopefully) taught you, hush-up already. It is possible that many of our UK colleagues are going to face the formidable task of working with distraught congregations, choir members, and ministry this Sunday. I think that it is vital for us to be supportive of our colleagues - - - - and nothing less. All other commentary in my opinion is inappropriate - - just because one can spew venom on-line instead of putting one's time to better use (like practicing) does not make one a more admired or important person.   Absolutely no one in the Royal Family or Westminister gives a fig about any of your opinions - - the organist in question is probably using his/her time to good use (like practicing), instead of getting involved with this. I'm started to be reminded of a bunch of those small yippy type dogs, who are only capable of "byte-ing" people in the ankle, as their contribution to the world.   Express condolences (like I am right now) to our colleagues in the UK - - otherwise, for god's sake already, give it up! Show a little class; unless one is involved directly in the funeral, no one cares what your negative opinion is. If you would just wait until the event was OVER before criticizing, or making any commentary at all, this would be so much better for everyone! So if it's negative, keep it to yourself. You are embarassing us all. Judith - - - - who's probably old enough to be most of your mothers, so take this in the spirit in which it is proferred. (JudithW987@aol.com)  
(back) Subject: ***Festival Organ, Boston*** From: TheNEORG@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:36:50 -0400 (EDT)   The complete schedule of Festival Organ, Boston is posted at   www.tneorg.com/festival   The city of Boston has taken notice, and because of the Boston AGO's efforts has declared October 18 "Festival Organ Day" - Which is pretty amazing for any large Metropolitan City to declare a day in honor of the Pipe Organ.   Len       Len Levasseur The Northeast Organist 800.841.4030 PO Box 747 http://www.tneorg.com/ Lawrence, MA 01842-1547          
(back) Subject: Re: Funeral Service of Diana Princess of Wales From: "Richard Scott-Copeland" <organist@interalpha.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:43:52 +0100   Dear All   Jim Donovan wrote:   > My, my, MY! Time for your valium.   As one of our fellow posters wrote "Show a little class"   I think that your obnoxious and trivial response to Richard's outburst (spurned on by genuine grief I'm sure) is disgusting and has left me sick to the stomach.   Why can't you show some respect for peoples feelings and let us pass through this very difficult time. Abuse us, by all means, next week.   > I was very surprised at that comment until I saw that you are in the > Roman branch of Catholicism. Guitars forced me out of that church.   As a Roman Catholic I myself am not a fan of guitars but I can only assume that their "forcing you out" was a lucky escape for them. Nobody needs immovable objects in their congregation.   > You probably won't understand this, but we musicians of a more > traditional bent suggest to prospective brides that music such as "We've > only Just Begun" and "The Wedding Song" would be more appropriate at the > reception.   And why as Catholics would we not understand it? The Catholic Church itself has issued a book stating what music is acceptable and is not acceptable in church. As a soprano called on regulary to sing at weddings and funerals I have always relied on my own intelligence when agreeing music with families, and have never left them in any doubt that the final decision lies with the priests. Of course, there is always the possibility that singers do not fit your criteria for "musicians". We shall see.   > In any event, "buddy" it was certainly not appropriate of you to blast > off in such a rude manner to Dr. Moyer for his offering HIS opinion. > Neither was it appropriate of you to respond with such a belittling and judgemental attitude.   > Think About It.   I think YOU should think about it and try to show some decorum.   > Calmly, (?)   Emma.