PipeChat Digest #88 - Monday, September 29, 1997
 
Out of place
  by <Ronnymn@aol.com>
Organ Pipe Metal (an old topic!)
  by Richard Schneider <arpncorn@dave-world.net>
Re: Out of place
  by <DaveW10140@aol.com>
Re: How Should We Critique
  by Richard Scott-Copeland <organist@interalpha.co.uk>
Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments)
  by Bob Conway <conwayb@post.queensu.ca>
Re: Out of place
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments)
  by <danbel@earthlink.net>
Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments)
  by <GHamil9709@aol.com>
Re: How Should We Critique
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
An addition to the Townhouse discussion
  by Zinger <dandub@gte.net>
Re: Out of place
  by Zinger <dandub@gte.net>
Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments)
  by john cormack <jcormack@cpcug.org>
Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments)
  by Bob Conway <conwayb@post.queensu.ca>
Re: An addition to the Townhouse discussion
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Out of place
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: An addition to the Townhouse discussion
  by Zinger <dandub@gte.net>
Re: Out of place
  by Zinger <dandub@gte.net>
Exceptional recordings---help!!
  by Mark Huth <mhuth@rodgers.rain.com>
Re: An addition to the Townhouse discussion
  by John L. Speller <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
All of the Organ??
  by Ron Hemmel <ohemmel@mail.eclipse.net>
Re: Exceptional recordings---help!!
  by Jim Zimmerman <zimmerman@chem.purdue.edu>
 


(back) Subject: Out of place From: Ronnymn@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 05:45:16 -0400 (EDT)   This post is a bit out of place, but very practical. Is an organ "out of place" in a Townhouse ? ( well for that matter any attached living quarters I think as I write) My wife and I have been giving some consideration to moving to a townhome environment where they cut the grass, shovel the snow etc.. My position has been, "no way" One complaint, just one! mind you, would ruin my enjoyment of playing the organ or piano. She says with modern construction techniques etc., such homes are quite soundproof. Some of you must have experience in this regard. To use headphones, or keep the swell shut etc. would not be an acceptable option to me. tks for any opinions or advice. Ron  
(back) Subject: Organ Pipe Metal (an old topic!) From: Richard Schneider <arpncorn@dave-world.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:55:01 -0700   On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 18:17:34 +0000 Ken <mewzishn@spec.net> qotes Bob, Diane & Jeff Kinner as saying:   > I'm not an organ builder, but 80-90% lead content doesn't seem right > > to me. A pipe with that much lead would be so soft as to collapse > under > its own weight. I'm not sure what an upper limit is on lead, but that > > seems high. Is that right, anyone?   Ken responds:   > I've played a number of instruments with pipes of as much as 98% lead. > Quite a rich, singing sound.   Sorry, list!   I'm very behind in my reading. Some of you who are on the "other" list probably read of my Dad's passing. In fact, the Memorial Service was on the date this was written.   In order to get lead to have sufficient rigity to not collapese, the metal is hammered-out on a Hammering Machine (or sometimes by hand if you're "boutique builder" is REALLY esoteric!!) The problem IMHO, is that the crystalline structure of the metal, over time, begins to "relax" again, and as a consequent, the pipes will eventaully "go soft" and start to collapse under their own weight.   What may surprise many folks is the fact that the cost of pipes is not so much the metal content as much as the labor content. This can be easily borne-out by comparing the price of pipes built by various supply houses using different metal contents.   That being true: I greatly prefer pipes with higher tin contents! Of course, I've been "poisoned" in my tonal ideas by the Schlickers of the mid-60's with "crashing-glass" Mixtures as my idiom!   However, it seems to me that if we're building for the future, using the highest quality materials possible should be the aim. I have often re-cycled pipework from older instruments into new work, at least have been able to do so if the tin-content is high enough. So-called "common metal" with about 30% tin content; (rest lead) being about the lowest I consider acceptable. If it doesn't appreciably affect prices, then it seems to be the best choice to use higher tin contents.   Spotted Metal has been the "workhorse" of pipemakers for years, now, and it seems to be a good compromise tonally and durability wise. There are places and reasons to deviate from that ratio, but with the concern about lead poisoning these days to factor into the equation also, it seems to me that going for the most lead content physically possible is a tragic mistake. Sugar of Lead (a poison produced by the chemical reaction between oak and lead) is to be greatly feared, and can be materially reduced by the use of higher tin content in pipes.   Some thoughts worth mentioning, I believe. . .   Faithfully,   -- / ^ ^ \ { (O) (O) } --------oOOOo--------U-------oOOOo------------   "Arp in the Corn Patch" Rich Schneider SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Organbuilders SNAILMAIL:41-43 Johnston Street P.O. Box 137 Kenney, Il 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX EMAIL: mailto:arpncorn@dave-world.net      
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place From: DaveW10140@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:09:38 -0400 (EDT)   The thing is that most apartment buildings are built with the thought in mind to keep costs down, and are not built as good as they could be. My mom lives in a building with 60 apartments. The lady in the next apartment has an organ. She can hear it anytime it is played even though the shoe is closed. The walls are like paper and do not have any insulation or other sound proofing material.   Dave W  
(back) Subject: Re: How Should We Critique From: "Richard Scott-Copeland" <organist@interalpha.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:50:51 +0100   Couldn't put it better! Let's hear the instrument - All of it, including warts!   Richard Scott-Copeland   ---------- > From: bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net> > To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Subject: Re: How Should We Critique > Date: 29 September 1997 03:46 > > After I got away from academia and became a musician again (!) I > discovered that the only way I could enjoy an organ recital fully was to > listen to the organ first, the music second, and the player third. > The main thing I want to hear at an organ recital is ALL of the organ, > though not at once and throughout. It is so important to hear stops > individually, and I believe except in a few instances that all (8 & 4 at > least) are voices/ designed to do so. So few recital goers get to hear > the magic of a rohrflute, or the poingancy (sp--too late) of a Koppel > Flute, the wierdness of a quintaton. even strings are interesting > alone without celestes. all solo reeds should be displayed. > the literature is second, and to me needs to be beautiful, have > intelligent movement, a beginning and an end. as the saying goes, i > like to be able to whistle something on the way home. > i do not like to witness ego recitals. i would prefer that a performed > make a mistake or two rather than be flailing all over the place making > the music and instrument look savagely out of control. ease and > elegance are captivatting to me. > I also try to enjoy each organ/room individually, not compared with my > ultimate perfect model. I love recitals and sure do miss having them > available as when I lived in the great northeast > > Bruce Cornely, organist (OHS & AGO) > University United Methodist Church > and Student Center Wicks ('56) 3/16r Gainesville > Florida > Dean, Gainesville Chapter AGO > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments) From: Bob Conway <conwayb@post.queensu.ca> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:14:17 -0400   We had an elderly (now deceased) colleague at the radio station, who bought a Yamaha Clavinola just like my own. She firstly lived in an older apartment block, and later she moved to a new block, which was said to be "sound-proofed".   She would hardly dare to play it, for the music could be heard through the walls on both sides, the people upstairs could hear it through their floor, and the people downstairs through their ceiling. She most certainly did not play it "forte", and eventually simply got too afraid of what the neighbours might say, that the only time it was ever played was when I was there, when she could safely say that she wasm't playing it!   I would not recommend putting an organ into an apartment from that experience.   Bob Conway,   CFRC-FM Queen's Radio Kingston, Ontario, Canada.   At 08:09 AM 9/29/97 -0400, you wrote: >The thing is that most apartment buildings are built with the thought in mind >to keep costs down, and are not built as good as they could be. My mom lives >in a building with 60 apartments. The lady in the next apartment has an >organ. She can hear it anytime it is played even though the shoe is closed. > The walls are like paper and do not have any insulation or other sound >proofing material. > >Dave W > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >  
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:28:16 -0400   Ron, you have found an unsolveable problem. When people live that close together, there is always someone who is going to complain. I have heard of people complaining about flushing toilets late at night! I've had people who complained about the "noise" my dogs made running up and down the stairs (on leash) when we went out for walks, but her stereo was never too loud. As gramma used to say, "if you can see your neighbors on a clear day, they're too close!" I'm beginning to see her point.   Bruce Cornely, organist (OHS & AGO) University United Methodist Church and Student Center Wicks ('56) 3/16r Gainesville Florida Dean, Gainesville Chapter AGO  
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments) From: danbel@earthlink.net Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:32:31 -0400   I was lucky many years ago when I moved into a high rise building in Denver. I was anxious that someone should see me moving ALL my belongings into the apartment because they included a Hammond B-3000 and a Leslie since I was travelling as a concert artist for Hammond at that time.   Wouldn't you know that the apartment RIGHT NEXT to mine was the managers residence and she opened her door just as my Hammond rolled out of the elevator! :) I thought I would be in BIG trouble until she said, "oh lovely, another organ in the building!" I thought this was sarcastic of course until she opened her door a little more for me to see her Hammond X-66, Hammond tone cabinet AND a Leslie!   I was not in trouble! I got eight students in that building before it was all over with!   Dan  
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments) From: GHamil9709@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:32:46 -0400 (EDT)   In a message dated 97-09-29 09:21:02 EDT, you write:   > I would not recommend putting an organ into an apartment from that experience. In past years I have purchased several organs from new apartment dwellers who found that it was impossible to play their instruments without stirring up quite a fuss. They finally gave up and sold the organ as the only solution.   I could not agree more, apartments and organs do not mix well. Don't consider such a move unless you are willing to part with your instrument.   Gene hamilton - Indianapolis, IN        
(back) Subject: Re: How Should We Critique From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:03:51 -0400   >Let's hear the instrument - All of it, including >the warts!   Yes, Richard. That's called "wartsprinzip"   bc   Bruce Cornely, organist (OHS & AGO) University United Methodist Church and Student Center Wicks ('56) 3/16r Gainesville Florida Dean, Gainesville Chapter AGO  
(back) Subject: An addition to the Townhouse discussion From: Zinger <dandub@gte.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:37:25   BTW.....I just thought I should say what kind of organ I have.....   It's an Allen (yes I know.....I know....but pipes just don't fit in here...) Theatre organ....a 317 -- a III/17 with a III/41 classical organ hiding inside. There are 2 4'x3'x3' speakers downstairs under the piano, 2 of the same speakers upstairs at the top of an open staircase speaking out into the stairwell, and finally 2 small speakers, 2'x1'x1' that do the speaking for the reeds (Trumpet, Kinura, etc.)   Anyway...just thought you should know......everyone that hears it (including the lady next door) says it sounds great......   -- Dan Wilkinson DanDub@GTE.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place From: Zinger <dandub@gte.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:30:42   Good Morning List!   Is an organ out of place in a Townhouse? I don't think so. I live in a 1500 sq.ft., upstairs/downstairs, end-unit townhouse. The one neighbor I do have attached says it's usually not a problem with the organ unless it's late at night or if I use all the pedal stops at the same time (I think it's the 32' Contra Violone and the 16' Tibia that get to her--kinda re-arranges her funiture sometimes.....). Most of the other neighbors don't even hear the organ unless we have the doors and windows open.   Just for a reference....this townhouse was built in 1976, thereby making it 21-22 years old.   Dan   P.S. In fact several of the neighbors stop by and make requests, and to my surprise the requests are NOT to stop playing....in fact one woman wants to know when I'm going to have the speakers installed in her house......   Dan   On 29-Sep-97, Ronnymn@aol.com wrote: >This post is a bit out of place, but very practical. Is an organ "out >of place" in a Townhouse ? ( well for that matter any attached living >quarters I think as I write)   <snip>    
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments) From: john cormack <jcormack@cpcug.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:21:10 -0400   At 09:14 AM 9/29/97 -0400, you wrote: >We had an elderly (now deceased) colleague at the radio station, who bought >a Yamaha Clavinola just like my own. She firstly lived in an older >apartment block, and later she moved to a new block, which was said to be >"sound-proofed". > >She would hardly dare to play it, for the music could be heard through the >walls on both sides, the people upstairs could hear it through their floor, >and the people downstairs through their ceiling. She most certainly did >not play it "forte", and eventually simply got too afraid of what the >neighbours might say, that the only time it was ever played was when I was >there, when she could safely say that she wasm't playing it! > >I would not recommend putting an organ into an apartment from that experience. > >Bob Conway, > >CFRC-FM Queen's Radio >Kingston, Ontario, Canada. > >At 08:09 AM 9/29/97 -0400, you wrote: >>The thing is that most apartment buildings are built with the thought in mind >>to keep costs down, and are not built as good as they could be. My mom lives >>in a building with 60 apartments. The lady in the next apartment has an >>organ. She can hear it anytime it is played even though the shoe is closed. >> The walls are like paper and do not have any insulation or other sound >>proofing material. >> >>Dave W >> >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> >> > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org -------------------------------------------------------------------   The Clavinova has a headphone jack so the person can play and hear everything fine, but no sound goes out into the room. All modern electronics organs have, to the best of my knowledge, a headphone jack also. That should solve the neighbor problem.   Jack Cormack Potomac, MD  
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place (Organs in apartments) From: Bob Conway <conwayb@post.queensu.ca> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:37:40 -0400   >The Clavinova has a headphone jack so the person can play and >hear everything fine, but no sound goes out into the room. All >modern electronics organs have, to the best of my knowledge, >a headphone jack also. That should solve the neighbor problem. > >Jack Cormack >Potomac, MD   John, et al,   Of course you are right, but it just isn't the same! IMHO Bob Conway <conwayb@post.queensu.ca> Organic DeeJay Emeritus, - but back in the saddle for this Session! CFRC-FM 101.9 MHz Radio Queen's University Kingston, Ontario, K7L 3N6 CANADA    
(back) Subject: Re: An addition to the Townhouse discussion From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:02:57 -0400   Dan, with all that capability I think you should invest in a high quality sampled "Ore Dump". If you changed the coal to bells you could have a Zimbledump. Imagine: In dulci jubiLOOOOO1   Bruce Cornely, organist (OHS & AGO) University United Methodist Church and Student Center Wicks ('56) 3/16r Gainesville Florida Dean, Gainesville Chapter AGO  
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:15:07 -0400   Dan, There is also an insulating/sound proofing paint which was developed in the space program. It is a ceramic based paint which insulates, sound and fire proofs. The demonstration uses a 3x5 card which is painted on one side with the pain, and then held paint side down over a cigarette lighter. There is no heat transmitted through the card. The stuff is amazing. It comes in all colors, can be custom mixed, etc. I believe the manufacturer is Pueblo and that somehow Benjamin Moore is involved. Painting your interior walls with this would go far in soundproofing as well as improving acoustics.   Bruce Cornely, organist (OHS & AGO) University United Methodist Church and Student Center Wicks ('56) 3/16r Gainesville Florida Dean, Gainesville Chapter AGO  
(back) Subject: Re: An addition to the Townhouse discussion From: Zinger <dandub@gte.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:26:09   On 29-Sep-97, bruce cornely wrote: >Dan, >with all that capability I think you should invest in a high quality >sampled "Ore Dump". If you changed the coal to bells you could have a >Zimbledump. Imagine: In dulci jubiLOOOOO1   >Bruce Cornely, organist (OHS & AGO) >University United Methodist Church > and Student Center Wicks ('56) 3/16r Gainesville >Florida >Dean, Gainesville Chapter AGO   >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org Well Bruce,   To each his own....I must say.   Good luck.... -- Dan Wilkinson DanDub@GTE.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Out of place From: Zinger <dandub@gte.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:27:36   On 29-Sep-97, bruce cornely wrote: >Dan, >There is also an insulating/sound proofing paint which was developed in >the space program. It is a ceramic based paint which insulates, sound >and fire proofs. The demonstration uses a 3x5 card which is painted on >one side with the pain, and then held paint side down over a cigarette >lighter. There is no heat transmitted through the card. The stuff is >amazing. It comes in all colors, can be custom mixed, etc. I believe >the manufacturer is Pueblo and that somehow Benjamin Moore is involved. >Painting your interior walls with this would go far in soundproofing as >well as improving acoustics.   >Bruce Cornely, organist (OHS & AGO) >University United Methodist Church > and Student Center Wicks ('56) 3/16r Gainesville >Florida >Dean, Gainesville Chapter AGO   >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org Bruce,   Thanks so much for the information.....if I ever get into the position where my neighbors don't like my playing, I'll have to look up your paint. -- Dan Wilkinson DanDub@GTE.net    
(back) Subject: Exceptional recordings---help!! From: "Mark Huth" <mhuth@rodgers.rain.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:25:35 PDT     Dear list,   Saturday saw the delivery of my new home audio system and the painful process of writing a check which seemed much too large. After years of an adequate system, I'm now the proud owner of something much nicer. For those of you who are interested, my purchase consisted of Alon speakers (made by a small, East-coast speaker company named Arcarian), a Carver preamp and power amp and a Rotel CD player.   I played a few miscellaneous recordings to introduce myself to the new system, however, the definitive experience was listening to the Poulenc Concerto in g Minor, from Michael Murray's Telarc disc, Encores a la Francais. Robert Shaw directs strings and tympani from the Atlanta Symphony, and the organ is a wonderful Aeolian-Skinner at St. Philips (or is it St. Peter's ? ? ? ) in Atlanta.   This is a favorite recording because all of the instruments have a tremendous warmth and presence. The lower strings, in particular, have a sweetness and breadth to them which I find quite impressive.   Although I'm not as thrilled with other pieces on this recording done at Boston Symphony Hall (I like them, but am not completely thrilled with them), I find this single piece more than justifies the purchase of the CD.   So, my question for the rest of the list is - - - which recordings in your library, both organ and non-organ, do you consider to be exceptional in their quality? In other words, now that I have a system which can readily distinguish between an exceptional recording and an average one, I'd like to develop a list of must have recordings.   Others I have already found to be exceptional:   Any of the Trevor Pinnock recordings on the Archiv label (either solo harpsichord or with his chamber group)   David Craighead playing Reger and Vierne's 6th Sonata on the 3m Rosales at Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, Portland, Oregon (Telarc, I believe).   Any help you can give me in finding those magical recordings will be most appreciated. My tastes in music, BTW, are very diverse, so don't hold back . . . You can send them to me privately, if you wish.   If anyone on the list is interested in receiving a compilation of responses I receive, please let me know.   Thanks, in advance, for your help.   Mark   Mark Huth Rodgers Instrument Corporation mhuth@rodgers.rain.com   What's the difference between a snare drum and an onion? Nobody cries when you chop up the drum.    
(back) Subject: Re: An addition to the Townhouse discussion From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:08:05 -0500 (CDT)   >On 29-Sep-97, Bruce Cornely wrote: >>Dan, >>with all that capability I think you should invest in a high quality >>sampled "Ore Dump". If you changed the coal to bells you could have a >>Zimbledump. Imagine: In dulci jubiLOOOOO1   The most spectacular sound I ever recall hearing along these lines was when I was at school in England and someone accidentally dropped a crate of empty milk-bottles down a long flight of concrete stairs. Thirty glass bottles bounced down thirty or forty stairs and then all smashed at the bottom. All this took place in a rather reverberant hallway. The sound seemed to go on forever, although it was probably less than a minute. We all cheered. The sound had to be heard to be believed. I wonder if anyone ever thought of a Bottle Dump stop on theatre organs. I guess you would have to install new bottles each time you used it, but it would probably be worth the effort :-)   John    
(back) Subject: All of the Organ?? From: Ron Hemmel <ohemmel@mail.eclipse.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:22:43 +0100   Bruce Cornely writes:   >After I got away from academia and became a musician again (!)   Flame bait ignored for now. ;-)>   >The main thing I want to hear at an organ recital is ALL of the organ, >though not at once and throughout. <<snipped bits about the glory of hearing each stop>>   I suspect you will be disappointed in most organ recitals if you need to hear this way. I would invite you to my January recital, should you be in New Jersey. I _will_ feature most stops of the II/14 Fisk - playing some up or down an octave. With an instrument of this size, one really needs to seek out all the combinations and variations. On the other hand, I recommend you skip my November recital. It's only 30 minutes long (a lunchtime series) on an instrument of 135 ranks. There's no way I'll get to show off each stop individually, even though they are lovely. ;-)   >I love recitals and sure do miss having them >available as when I lived in the great northeast   Well, come on back and visit for some!   -Ron Hemmel Somewhere in the Great Northeast [academic affiliations intentionally left off!]        
(back) Subject: Re: Exceptional recordings---help!! From: Jim Zimmerman <zimmerman@chem.purdue.edu> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:49:45 -0500   Mark Huth asks:   >So, my question for the rest of the list is - - - which recordings in >your library, both organ and non-organ, do you consider to be >exceptional in their quality?   Here's one for you. I just received the Fred Hohman recording of the Widor 5th and Vierne 5th symphonies on a Pro Organo disk entitled "A Couple of French Fifths". Fred Hohman's playing on the 154 rank Schantz at the Cathedral of the Sacred Heart (Newark, NJ) is impeccable. Hearing the pedal line come through on the Toccata made my arm hairs stand on end..... and I was listening with cheap headphones.   Another great disk that comes to mind for trying out a new stereo system is the Reference Recordings disk entitled "Pomp & Pipes" recorded on the famous Meyerson Fisk with the Dallas Wind Symphony.     ** Jim Zimmerman zimmerman@chem.purdue.edu **