PipeChat Digest #325 - Friday, April 10, 1998
 
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "PipeLuvr" <PipeLuvr@aol.com>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Ron Yost" <musik@tcsn.net>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Stephen F P Karr" <karrlist@scescape.net>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "SCoonrod" <SCoonrod@aol.com>
Re: WAX!!!
  by "Jason D. Comet" <bombarde8@juno.com>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "SCoonrod" <SCoonrod@aol.com>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Jason D. Comet" <bombarde8@juno.com>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Timothy Patterson" <timp@usinternet.com>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Jason D. Comet" <bombarde8@juno.com>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@netins.net>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Gregory F. Klingler" <klingler@IDT.NET>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Gregory F. Klingler" <klingler@IDT.NET>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "Gregory F. Klingler" <klingler@IDT.NET>
Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh !
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Tax on the Internet...Your right to be heard may be taxed!!!!!
  by "Gregory F. Klingler" <klingler@IDT.NET>
ADMIN POSTING - ALL READ
  by "Dr. Peter G. Pocock" <pgpocock@ix.netcom.com>
Re: The Enemy
  by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@ptw.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: PipeLuvr <PipeLuvr@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:34:58 EDT   In a message dated 4/9/98 4:50:59 PM Central Daylight Time, GRSCoLVR@aol.com writes:   > Think back Shirley,,,,how much better would those organs that you > played in your early days have sounded,,,had technology been applied to > them---even what was available then! I know,,,I was there and heard them!   I wasn't there, and didn't hear them. . . but . . . unless we begin to embrace both change and diversity of opinion as a way of life, both the number of playing organs AND members of lists such as this will, as the mathematicians say "tend to ZERO." Quite frankly I'm getting pretty tired of the endless rattling about "wasted bandwidth" by engineering "wannabes" who will not hesitate to use the whole damn spectrum to defend a position they support, but whine at the first marginally off-topic post screaming "Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth" ad nausea. I doubt seriously if the volume of messages to Pipechat, Piporg & Eorg could topple my laptop, much less a reasonably well-designed server! And with the continued resignation from these lists by everyone with hurt feelings or who have irritated the listmeister's bandwidth will certainly become even less of a factor!   After reading today's posts I found myself wondering what our younger members, Kevin, Jason, etc., who are trying so hard to find support in their love for organs must think when those they are looking to for leadership, guidance, and support are more interested in chunking electronic hand grenades back and forth. Folks, if these magnificent instruments are to survive, it will take all of us. . . listeners, builders, musicians and engineers all working together! I personally don't care if I have to wade through 10 vendor posts (offering help or offering merchandise) to find messages of interest. I do, however, take great exception to the daily "warnings," "resignations from the list," and "you hurt my feelings - I hurt yours - I didn't mean to" and the other litany of daily kindergarten level posts.   As Charlie Brown (I think) once said, "We have met the enemy and he is us!" Perhaps its time for peace!!!   Bob Acker     ..  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: Ron Yost <musik@tcsn.net> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:39:00 -0700   >> Is it surprising that young people are not interested in Pipe Organs when >> they read such drivel ? >> >> >> Ulric Gordon-Lewis >> President. >> Emutek Systems, Inc. >> >Well said in my opinion. As in any other "user" group, the associated vendors >have both a vested interest and much to contribute to the group. It's always >been difficult for vendors to be accepted in such groups. I believe some of >us have missed the mark. I certainly have no objections to vendors being >part of this list, speaking as a member, not an administrator. >-- >Kenneth O. Woods kow987@dice.crane.navy.mil   FWIW, I agree!! What is wrong with politely informing a possible 'customer' of a possibly needed service or product they (we) may not be aware of??? Especially when said person requests 'our' help with a problem.   As long as a company doesn't post blatant 'adverts', where's the harm??   Not all of us are 'connected' to everything going on in the pipe organ world (in real life). Not all of us belong to the A.G.O. nor the Guild of Organbuilders.   Please reconsider, Mr. Gordon-Lewis. (OK .. my flame suit is on and in place).   Ron Yost, Paso Robles, Calif. : )  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:49:07 -0700   At 19:34 4/9/98 EDT, you wrote: >As Charlie Brown (I think) once said, "We have met the enemy and he is us!" >Perhaps its time for peace!!! > >Bob Acker   Actually, that was Walt Kelly's possum "Pogo"...   And it is LONG past the time for peace...     Regards,   Bob        
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: Stephen F P Karr <karrlist@scescape.net> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:52:59 -0400 (EDT)   >After reading today's posts I found myself wondering what our younger members, >Kevin, Jason, etc.,   I'll tell you what I do...I ignore it. I feel that if people wish to fight with each other, I'll look the other way. These are not the kind of people I use as my role models. I'd rather look to a great (Gerre Hancock, David Higgs, or even my own teacher, Keith Shafer) for guidance, because I know that they know what to do and what not to do. I also hope that when I am a member of the mentor generation, I will be able to share experiences and wisdom with the up-and-coming, thus perpetuating the knowledge and love for the organ.   Just a younger member's twopence,   -Stephen    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: SCoonrod <SCoonrod@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:17:08 EDT   In a message dated 98-04-09 16:58:00 EDT, pnst@itw.com writes:   << Sorry, Ken, I vehemently disagree with you here. In my book, anything published on any email list that is a blatant advertisement for a profit-making organization is SPAM. I don't want it, don't need it, don't want to see it. AND it's the lazy man's approach to salesmanship. What an easy target, these email lists! --Shirley >> I agree that to a point there should be some control of this stuff, however, I have seen MANY posts to various degrees of this type, and if one is censored they should all be, IMO.   RandyT  
(back) Subject: Re: WAX!!! From: bombarde8@juno.com (Jason D. Comet) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:30:10 -0400     >I, for some reason, had the idea you played in the mornings for a >larger >church with television cameras...do you??   **************** How'd you come up with that????!!!! (Curious look on face, NOT mad or sarcastic)   Jason Comet bombarde8@juno.com |\ | \ O   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: SCoonrod <SCoonrod@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:24:53 EDT   AND THIS IS HOLY WEEK..............  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: bombarde8@juno.com (Jason D. Comet) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:26:25 -0400   Ulric Gordon-Lewis President. Emutek Systems, Inc.   About taking up bandwidth.   That message just used up alot. I have some thoughts on my mind about that letter right now. But I won't use them. I find it sick. You have to reply and chew out everyone on the list about something that could have been treated like rain and let it run off the ducks back.   I'm not going to say anymore.   Sianara!!!!!!   Jason Comet bombarde8@juno.com |\ | \ O     _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: Timothy Patterson <timp@usinternet.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:36:18 -0500   I have seen so much advertisement on this list that any conversation about it being "SPAM" is hogwash.   Sometimes some of us need help. Even if it is from for-profit org's. Help is Help. Help is hard to find when not right in front of us. The internet is a way to find what we need. After all, the internet service provider is "for profit", the internet was a waste-land before "for-profit" companies made it available to us all at a realistic price.   The enjoyment that this list manager gets from maintaining the list may be considered "PROFIT".   Anyway, I can tell it is time to unsubscribe from this list.     Bye,   Tim p.    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: bombarde8@juno.com (Jason D. Comet) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:37:58 -0400   THSI IS GETTING OUT OF HAND ! ! ! ! ! ! !!   Settle down folks (I should be talking) . I haven't been able to check my e-mail in a while and am sorry if I hurt anybody from it. But, Let's just sit back and enjoy the spring and let's stop getting mad at each other on the net. If we do this much longer, our stress smoke will be coming out of eachothers CPU's. Now we don't want that to happen, now. Do we?????   Thanks alot and again, I'm sorry if I hurt anybody in the last posting. I didn't have the full picture yet.   Later and CALM DOWN!!!!!   Jason Comet bombarde8@juno.com |\ | \ O   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@netins.net> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:06:43 -0500   Tim's right. Help is help. And profit is profit. And without that there wouldn't be any help. And you people who don't like other people making "profits" are damn lucky you can sit behind a desk and draw a salary, because you would never make in in the outside world. /s/ Mark W. McClellan, President The McClellan Group of Companies (A profitable entity)    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: "Gregory F. Klingler" <klingler@IDT.NET> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:47:14 -0400   Shirley,   Live, let live and let promote; there's always the delete button.   Later....   Greg   Shirley wrote:   > >Well said in my opinion. As in any other "user" group, the associated vendors > >have both a vested interest and much to contribute to the group. It's always > >been difficult for vendors to be accepted in such groups. I believe some of > >us have missed the mark. I certainly have no objections to vendors being > >part of this list, speaking as a member, not an administrator. > >-- > >Kenneth O. Woods kow987@dice.crane.navy.mil > > Sorry, Ken, I vehemently disagree with you here. In my book, anything > published on any email list that is a blatant advertisement for a > profit-making organization is SPAM. I don't want it, don't need it, don't > want to see it. > > AND it's the lazy man's approach to salesmanship. What an easy target, > these email lists! > > --Shirley > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: "Gregory F. Klingler" <klingler@IDT.NET> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:59:27 -0400   Hi all,   I've always considered this and other organ lists as a resource for our beloved, king of instruments regardless of subject (there's always the delete button). So what if there are vendors on the list, have you ever read a magazine? - Over half the pages inside are advertisements [and you pay for them when you buy the magazine (purchase price and your time, not actual payment for the advertisements, lest I be misunderstood)].   I, for one, find vendors an invaluable source of data, information, questions plus products, etc. and welcome their input in this OPEN (I think) forum - just my opinion.   Greg     Kenneth O. Woods wrote:   > > > > > > >Well said in my opinion. As in any other "user" group, the associated vendors > > >have both a vested interest and much to contribute to the group. It's always > > >been difficult for vendors to be accepted in such groups. I believe some of > > >us have missed the mark. I certainly have no objections to vendors being > > >part of this list, speaking as a member, not an administrator. > > >-- > > >Kenneth O. Woods kow987@dice.crane.navy.mil > > > > > > Sorry, Ken, I vehemently disagree with you here. In my book, anything > > published on any email list that is a blatant advertisement for a > > profit-making organization is SPAM. I don't want it, don't need it, don't > > want to see it. > > > > AND it's the lazy man's approach to salesmanship. What an easy target, > > these email lists! > > > > --Shirley > Well I believe you miss the point, and I did speak it as my opinion. I think > it's time to take my leave. I joined this list because I felt it would > provided me with information much of which probably would come from vendors, > organ builders, book store owners etc. I have organized, chaired and > successfully run user groups which included vendors. > > I'm gone. > -- > Kenneth O. Woods kow987@dice.crane.navy.mil > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: "Gregory F. Klingler" <klingler@IDT.NET> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:09:01 -0400   Bob,   HERE, HERE!!!!   Later....   Greg   PS - I love my 562!! Just added a "super tweeter" to it and "the strings really sizzle"!! More to come - How's the 340 project coming?      
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe up and be Heard - huh ! From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:11:43 -0400   I think there is a big difference between blatant advertising or SPAM, and sharing information on products and technology which may be of interest/import to those of us on the list. Even though with my severe mechanical leanings and desire never to have to deal with such technology, there are other people on the list who are interested in and need it. I will even go so far as to apologize to the nice gentleman whom I attacked for sharing information on the organs built by Cheryl's Wonder Organs of Irthingboro, England, for whom he is the USA representative. It is time for tolerance and some discussion actually about organs themselves. I'll even try to behave (what the heck, I gave everything else up for Lent!).   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o cremona84000@webtv.net  
(back) Subject: Tax on the Internet...Your right to be heard may be taxed!!!!! From: "Gregory F. Klingler" <klingler@IDT.NET> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:45:38 -0400   This is not spam in the strictest sense of the definition, it's about the FCC and more taxes that are looming ahead. The method of delivery is spam-like and for that we apologize.   We apologize for bothering you, but if we don't warn you right now, you might not be able to communicate over the net as freely as you do now.   The Federal Communications Commission is planning to regulate the Internet by imposing new universal service fees which are likely to be passed on to you in the form of higher Internet-service charges.   If these taxes are imposed, you will have to pay more every time you use   the Internet.   IDT Corporation (NASDAQ IDTC) a leading telecommunications and Internet access company, wants to make sure this does not happen. We are calling for a citizens uprising against government bureaucracy and taxes.   IDT is going to let you voice your opinion on our nickel.   We are sponsoring free phone calls to lobby your representative, senator or the FCC against this most serious infraction against affordable communications. By going to http://www.net2phone.com, you can place as many free calls as you like to Congress and the FCC to demand your right to low-cost communications.   We have always viewed the Internet as a fantastic medium to communicate with anyone worldwide at little or no cost. Please do not let the FCC take this right away from you.   Please make that free call right now before you lose your right to unfettered Internet access.   Thank you, IDT/Net2Phone Management http://www.net2phone.com      
(back) Subject: ADMIN POSTING - ALL READ From: "Dr. Peter G. Pocock" <pgpocock@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:55:17 -0700   Hi everyone,   Holy week is a time where we are supposed to be at peace with one another. I come home from a very very long day at work (I know, poor me :):) to find you all fighting with one another. ENOUGH! More than one of you is guilty of defying the one basic rule of this list--that is NO FLAMING UNDER ANY (REPEAT--ANY) CIRCUMSTANCES.   It does not matter who started it all, or who added fuel to the fire, just cease and desist from this immediately.   As far as list policy is concerned in relation to the advertisement of "money making" ventures, I will discuss this extensively with David over the next few weeks and issue a policy at the appropriate time. I can assure you that organ concerts will not be an issue in that policy, they have always been allowed on PipeChat and will contimue to be allowed. This policy will be added to our guidelines as soon as possible.   In the meantime, please post vigorously about Pipe Organs and Related Topics. You can only get high quality discussion if you generate it. If you sit back and say nothing, or give answers that are no brainers, you can only expect the list to be like that. As we say in our guidelines, within the limits prescribed, and they are far more liberal than any other Pipe/Electronic discussion group, it is up to the list members to make the list what you want it to be.   Post away, and happy easter everyone,   Pete!   Dr. Peter Pocock Co-Owner and List Administrator Peter G. Pocock, D.M.A. WWW: http://www.netcom.com/~pgpocock/ E-mail: mailto:pgpocock@ix.netcom.com    
(back) Subject: Re: The Enemy From: Mac Hayes <mach37@ptw.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:15:52 -0700   PipeLuvr wrote: > ... > As Charlie Brown (I think) once said, "We have met the enemy and he is us!"   Pogo said it.   -- Mac Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.