PipeChat Digest #330 - Tuesday, April 14, 1998
 
Sorry
  by "Kevin Cartwright" <kevin1@alaweb.com>
: Music For 2nd Sunday Of Easter- Bemis UMC
  by "Beau Surratt" <beaupiano@earthlink.net>
The Octave of Easter, Westbury (x-post)
  by <mewzishn@spec.net>
What I think of "Organists and Chambers"
  by "Kevin Cartwright" <kevin1@alaweb.com>
Program, 4/19, Milwaukee WI
  by "Jeff Taylor" <jctaylor@execpc.com>
Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers"
  by <danbel@earthlink.net>
Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers"
  by "Kevin Cartwright" <kevin1@alaweb.com>
Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers"
  by "Kevin Cartwright" <kevin1@alaweb.com>
Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers"
  by <danbel@earthlink.net>
Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers"
  by "Sheridan Mascall" <sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au>
Choir Robes
  by "Melissa Roen" <humcorganist@geocities.com>
Re:  What I think of "Organists and Chambers"
  by "CharlesHTu" <CharlesHTu@aol.com>
Re:  What I think of "Organists and Chambers"
  by "Kurt Kehler" <kmkehler@compuserve.com>
Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" Long winded and  controversi
  by "Nelson and Tracy Denton" <ndenton434@waterdown.BigWave.ca>
Re: What I think ...
  by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@ptw.com>
Re: Off topic, but of interest
  by "MW ORGLBAU" <MWORGLBAU@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Sorry From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 06:56:52 -0500   Sorry for the intrusion, but I have lost Bob Loesch's (sorry again if I spelled it wrong) address. Bob, please reply privately.   Kevin C. kevin1@alaweb.com  
(back) Subject: : Music For 2nd Sunday Of Easter- Bemis UMC From: Beau Surratt <beaupiano@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:27:34 -0500       Prelude- "Rejoice, My Heart, Be Glad And Sing" Hofland   Offertory- "An Irish Blessing"- Glyncannon   Postlude- "Postlude In D" Couperin   Beau  
(back) Subject: The Octave of Easter, Westbury (x-post) From: mewzishn@spec.net Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:58:23 +0000   The Second Sunday of Easter, "Thomas Sunday" 19 April 1998, The Holy Eucharist, Rite II The Church of the Advent, Westbury, New York The Rev'd Jeffrey H. Krantz, rector Kenneth L. Sybesma, choirmaster and organist     Voluntary, "Christ ist erstanden" Johann Sebastian Bach Hymn in Procession L90, "No, Not One!" Song of Praise L243, "Glory, Glory, Hallelujah" Psalm 111, Anglican chant (Kennedy) Hymn at the Gospel Procession L206, "We Walk by Faith" Anthem at the Presentation, "Just a Little Talk With Jesus" Cleavant Derricks Hymn at the Preparation L41, "Christ Has Arisen" Sanctus L255, Brown Lord’s Prayer L264, Malotte Fraction Anthem L268, McLin Voluntary at the Communion, "Christ lag in todesbanden" J.S. Bach Hymn after the Communion L153, "Lord I Have Seen Thy Salvation" Hymn at the Retiring Procession L42, "He Lives" Voluntary after the Dismissal, "Toccata 'O filii et filiæ' " Lynwood Farnam     This being the third Sunday of the month is “LEVASII day”        
(back) Subject: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:25:49 -0500   > I guess I just do not understand the big problem with organists and what > goes on in the chambers. MOST organists I know would much rather > concentrate on what THEY are SUPPOSED to be doing on the bench and leave > what goes on behind the shades to those whose profession it is to take care > of THAT part of things. > > Personally, I have PLENTY to worry about from the bench without having to > get involved with the technical part. The people who work on the > instruments USUALLY (althought not always) KNOW what they are doing in > there. That is their business. MY business is to push the pistons, mash > the keys and make the music. > > It is my belief that the organist knows when something is wrong in the > chambers---because it is assumed that he/she has the ears to realize such > things. At that point, the telephone is used to call the techinical person > who should come and fix the problem. Yes? > > If I am nothing else, I AM smart enough to KNOW what I KNOW and what I > DON'T know. Leave the technical things to the guys who know how to do it > and worry about playing correct notes!!!!! :):)   I would like to apologize for starting the little "organists and chambers" war. But, give ME the microphone for a minute-   The organist at my church is like that. She has no care in the world about what makes the sound, except that it makes the sound properly. And you know what??...we were discussing a problem dealing with how to put a microphone on/in the piano (please do not send solutions, happened long ago and has been fixed). We were discussing where to put a small mike, and she suggested we just drill a hole and bolt it to the bottom of the soundboard. What if it were her piano in her home, and she had the tools?? THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING BEHIND THE "WALLS!" How does a tuba work? I KNOW there is more to it than just blowing into the mouthpiece. Knowledge of how it works tells me how to open the valves and clean/oil them, etc...   Another example: you want to know a little about how your car works so you might be able to make a quick, simple repair to get you to the nearest service station before you get mugged. Right? AND some churches can't afford to "call the towtruck" every time something small happens. I have SAVED the church hundreds of dollars, repaired the organ from unplayable condition for the service, and I have received a "crash course" on quick fixes and repairs from our technician, and it only took about 1 hour. Organists and other instrumentalists need to be aware of how their instrument works as well as how to play it...do I even have to list the reasons?   Isn't it funny, people like me ask this list (pipeorg-l) some basic questions, and we get persecuted for being interested in how the instrument works. Is it a big secret that only technicians are supposed to share? Yes, well meaning people can make things worse, AND boats sink, planes crash, cars collide, trains derail, &%&$ happens, and the world keeps turning, and eventually, WE DIE. Who can help it?? I vote "yes" for teaching pipe organists how to mailtain their instruments...just like in the "more advanced" European countries (at least by railroad technology).   I am tired of fighting people on the list (pipeorg-l)...I will no longer start a war by asking [pipeorg-l] for some simple advice.   Kevin C. e-mail to the list...not me.   BTW, "mash" is not a word...but, I'm not an English TEACHER, so I have no place correcting anyone.  
(back) Subject: Program, 4/19, Milwaukee WI From: "Jeff Taylor" <jctaylor@execpc.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:00:20 -0500   On Sunday, April 19th, the Kimball Theatre Organ Society will present D. W. Griffith's epic silent film "Intolerance" at 1:00 PM at the Oriental Theatre in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The film portrays the devastating results of man's inhumanity to man by weaving together four stories of intolerance in different historical eras. Musical accompaniment will be presented by Dennis James. Mr. James is a highly respected theatre organist who has played a pivotal role in the international revival of silent films presented with live musical accompaniment. He has appeared under the auspices of the Library of Congress, Museum of Modern Art, Louvre Museum, and National Film Theatre in London. He is also a featured performer in such annual film festivals as the San Francisco Film Festival, the Washington D.C. International Film Festival, and the Chicago Art Institute's film series.    
(back) Subject: Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" From: danbel@earthlink.net Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:41:53 -0400   I don't have any earthly idea why this person elected to clutter pipechat with his idiotic response to something I posted to piporg-l.   To pipechat, I apologize for this posters inconsideration.   Dan        
(back) Subject: Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:47:18 -0500   > I don't have any earthly idea why this person elected to clutter pipechat > with his idiotic response to something I posted to piporg-l. > > To pipechat, I apologize for this posters inconsideration.   WHY I did it was the fact that I can post everything I please to wherever, like your insults to me. So, I have just as much right as you to post any writing I want others to read.   Oh, you must have had a bad time with "Who Is?" when it came along. List, while he is talking about me, I have been informed of his NONEXISTANT since of humor. And, it appears to me that this person is trying to clear his mind and others' minds of something that might actually mean something. DAN, I'll surely ge glad when my Wicks gets here, and I can do whatever I please, and not have to listen to people like you gripe and complain...   K.  
(back) Subject: Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:47:49 -0500   > I don't have any earthly idea why this person elected to clutter pipechat > with his idiotic response to something I posted to piporg-l. > > To pipechat, I apologize for this posters inconsideration.   WHY I did it was the fact that I can post everything I please to wherever, like your insults to me. So, I have just as much right as you to post any writing I want others to read.   Oh, you must have had a bad time with "Who Is?" when it came along. List, while he is talking about me, I have been informed of his NONEXISTANT since of humor. And, it appears to me that this person is trying to clear his mind and others' minds of something that might actually mean something. DAN, I'll surely ge glad when my Wicks gets here, and I can do whatever I please, and not have to listen to people like you gripe and complain...   Dear God, I'm becoming M.Fulk!!   K.  
(back) Subject: Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" From: danbel@earthlink.net Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:05:29 -0400   > DAN, I'll surely ge glad when my Wicks gets >here, and I can do whatever I please, and not have to listen to people >like you gripe and complain... > >K. >   That will be very nice for us all I am sure.   djb    
(back) Subject: Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" From: sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au (Sheridan Mascall) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:02:36 +1000     -----Original Message----- From: danbel@earthlink.net <danbel@earthlink.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tuesday, 14 April 1998 10:59 Subject: Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers"     >> DAN, I'll surely ge glad when my Wicks gets >>here, and I can do whatever I please, and not have to listen to people >>like you gripe and complain... >> >>K. >> > >That will be very nice for us all I am sure. > >djb >     All right, cut that out, the pair of you. Take it to private mail if you Must.    
(back) Subject: Choir Robes From: Melissa Roen <humcorganist@geocities.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:22:14 -0700   Shirley asked...   >Speaking of which, how many of you who are visible from the >congregation use a choir robe?   I do! It looks nice, and it keeps me from worrying too much about what I have to wear to church on Sunday. It does make it a little harder to slide onto the organ bench, though. (-:   By the way, I played part of the Good Friday service at the local Catholic church, where they had their organ in a loft. How *nice* not to be on display! It was an ecumenical service, and two other organists also played -- we divided the service music between us. The other two organists had more experience than I, so I picked up some good pointers during the service, all the in privacy in our lovely little loft.   Best wishes, Melissa       o |~~~| Melissa Roen /\_ _| | Organist, \__`[_ | Hollister United ][ \,/|___| Methodist Church    
(back) Subject: Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" From: CharlesHTu <CharlesHTu@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:59:49 EDT   Oboists usually make their own reeds--French horn players need to know how to replace the strings which operate the rotary valves on most French horns- trombone players need to know how to grease or oil the slides--string players know how to restring their instruments--harpsichord players really should know how to tune their instruments. Organists should ( I really would say MUST) know how to blow the dust out of ailing reed pipes and then to retune the pipe and also how to tune the flue pipe whose slide or cap has fallen due to changes in the temperature. That is the bare minimum t seems to me that any organist worthy of the name should know. The more one knows about the instrument one plays the better off one is. Sure one should rely on technicians to do their jobs but who is going to pass judgement on the job that they do if the organist is ignorant??!! In most churches the organist or the director of music is charged with the oversight of all the church owned instruments and the maintenance of those instruments. That doesn't mean to DO the maintenance but to see that it is done properly and in a timely manner. Many people aren't mechanically inclined or particularly interested in the science and engineering behind musical instruments. To them I would say "you must push yourselves to learn enough to be competent to oversee the maintenance of the instruments under your care". I happen to love to know the how and the why of the instruments so I have it easy. The organ I play is very stable as far as tuning is concerned except for the Trompete and the Crormorne. If I didn't take care of these two stops on a regular basis the church would go with out them for most of the year because the organ tech comes twice a year and the dust visits us daily!   Sincerely, Charles Tucker, MSM, MTh Dean, Pensacole Chapter, AGO  
(back) Subject: Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" From: "Kurt Kehler" <kmkehler@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:33:17 -0500   Kevin Cartwright should be commended and encouraged for his interest in pipe organ maintenance. I bet many organ builders started out the same way. Judging from Kevin's posts, he will go far in whatever field he chooses.   Now, I have a question. What are the minimum tools required to tune organ pipes? Where can I buy them?   Kurt Kehler          
(back) Subject: Re: What I think of "Organists and Chambers" Long winded and controversial - Yup it's bigmouth talking From: Nelson and Tracy Denton <ndenton434@waterdown.BigWave.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 02:01:34 -0400   At 07:25 PM 4/13/1998 -0500, Kevin wrote: THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING BEHIND THE >"WALLS!" How does a tuba work? I KNOW there is more to it than just >blowing into the mouthpiece. Knowledge of how it works tells me how to >open the valves and clean/oil them, etc...   Knowing WHY things work the way they do is more important than HOW they work. Admiral James T. Kirk   The most difficult things in life are not doing things , They are learning why things are done the way they are. Anybody can run a VCR but how many can program one without a manual? How many fewer can design or build one?   Anybody can play an organ, however a player action can play rings around most accomplished organists. The best organists are the ones who understand what music is about and can build upon the knowledge of others.   Understanding the insides of an organ and why it does the things it does is at least as important as which notes you should play and when you should play them. Sadly like most technical things in this world we are all taught to "Don't touch it you might break it". I broke most of my toys when I was a kid by taking them apart to see what was inside them. My Dad disapproved most mightily of my attempts to learn but he went right on buying me more and more complex toys to take apart, and then a few that you had to put together yourself. Dad was smart. He knew that Ford, Edison, Hope Jones and Rube Goldberg took more things apart and wrecked more toys when they were young than most kids did but they eventually learned to put things back together and then they all made bigger and better toys.   The console to the largest Steinmeyer Organ in North America was destroyed by a bunch of "degreed" organists who got the bright idea that by pulling on the tilting tablets ( right out of their sockets) you could stop a rank of pipes from cyphering. It was impossible to teach them that a speck of dust in a valve was causing the problems with the organ and that pulling out the tablets simply ruined the action and that the tablet would never work properly again. They were professionals !!! they knew how to play an "Organ" and no stupid "organ tuner" knew more about organs than they did. It was beneath them to walk into the organ chamber to pull the pipe or even call for service.   It was sad to see how a bunch of trained musicians found themselves at a total loss to figure out what an "ALL STOPS OFF" reversible was and why you had to push it the second time to release it. EVEN AFTER THEY WERE REPEATEDLY SHOWN HOW IT WORKS!!!!<I'm deadly serious here folks>   Fortunately "HE who decides who does what at the church" was an old friend of my Dad and he knew enough about organs to replace the organists with some who knew more about organs and less about music degrees.   >Another example: you want to know a little about how your car works so >you might be able to make a quick, simple repair to get you to the >nearest service station before you get mugged. Right? AND some >churches can't afford to "call the towtruck" every time something small >happens. I have SAVED the church hundreds of dollars, repaired the >organ from unplayable condition for the service, and I have received a >"crash course" on quick fixes and repairs from our technician, and it >only took about 1 hour. Organists and other instrumentalists need to be >aware of how their instrument works as well as how to play it...do I >even have to list the reasons?   Having been towed twice last week ( in the evenings)while out of town for a problem with my van that disappeared as soon as I reached the then closed Garage I know the fustration of not knowing why cars work the way they do. Despite the 25 years of driving I've done and a fair bit of knowledge about cars I was still stuck not knowing enough about my van to repair a faulty ignition. But at least I was able to pinpoint the problem as to being a fault in the ignition and that the coil was not getting any voltage from the computer. (the problem corrected itself both times on it's own with out any repairs or visable symptoms remaining - a very annoying problem) The mechanics who looked at my van later gave me some advice as to how I could bypass the problem with a wire should it ever occur again and what I should look for if it returns ( and Importantly How not to fry my electronic ignition while doing it.) . This little bit of knowledge can/could save me hundreds of dollars of repairs and another long bumpy ride in a tow truck to a closed garage for nothing.   Oh if I could only teach a few organists to not drop boxes of paper clips into the pedalboard contacts or possibly get them to call me when the organ blower starts making more noise and not wait until it smokes. Saturday nights would be a whole lot more pleasant and I could spend my life building new organs and not wasting it pulling stuck pencils from between pedal keys.   A little bit of teaching people what to do in an emergency would save a lot of good organs from being trashed long before their times.   A little bit of CPR and use of the Heimlich Manouver by a trained organist or organ buff would save a lot of amputations and needless deaths of some very fine organs.   I was just reading yesterday of a famous American Civil War General who died from a minor wound to his leg. He bled to death because no-one on his staff or in his unit knew how to apply a tourniquet or bandage to his leg.   I'd rather have an ham fisted organist ask stupid questions and bug me about how an organ works and "How do I pull a pipe without wrecking the organ and when do I just let it alone and call you and leave it to you to fix it", than to have an Idiot with a degree in organ performance rip out an organ's action just to shut up the damned noise and then simply say this organ's junk why do you let such amatuer organ builders fix it?. (Sorry Bud but after looking after it continuously for 65+ years we are probably the only folks left who know who to fix it)   >Isn't it funny, people like me ask this list (pipeorg-l) some basic >questions, and we get persecuted for being interested in how the >instrument works. Is it a big secret that only technicians are supposed >to share? > >I am tired of fighting people on the list (pipeorg-l)...I will no longer >start a war by asking [pipeorg-l] for some simple advice.   I just "reluctantly" took on a project that another company wanted to charge $5,000.00 to clean a 4 rank echo division. It seems the "other company" also didn't want to tune said division because was junk and it wasn't built by their company and they don't work on other's organs ( they build and service only the BEST organs) "   Sadly the church members nearly fell for such bunk. Fortunately the new organist had been around the block a few times and he smelled a dead (rat ( or maybe it was a bat).   Don't ever stop asking questions Kevin - By asking questions You show you have more Intelligence than those who would seek to stop you because they think you are too young or naive to understand.   Sometimes wars are good, because the idiots of this world stand up and charge into battle and get themselves shot down by those who duck and hide and wait for the perfect moment to return fire.   Remember the lower the species is on the intelligence curve the faster they breed. Hence the fact that lists are populated by loudmouthed boors who post replys to everything that is said is prime evidence that some organists and organbuilders are not that high on the intelligence curve, or they think that everyone else is. :-))))))))) ( D'oh!!! I think I just described myself. Marge? help me out here!!!!)   "There's a sucker born every minute" P.T. Barnum     Nothing I ever say is my opinion or that of anyone or anything else. Sometimes I just start typing and the computer does the rest.   Remember this is Pipechat so use your flame throwers on narrow spray and blast away at me only , I can take it. But try to be nice to each other.     And Keep talking and asking questions This means you -all of you lurkers YOU TOO!! Nelson E. Denton R. A. Denton and Son Pipe Organ Builders Hamilton Ontario Canada   http://www.freeyellow.com/members/radentonson  
(back) Subject: Re: What I think ... From: Mac Hayes <mach37@ptw.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:31:04 -0700   Nelson and Tracy Denton wrote: > ... > Sometimes I just start typing and the computer does the rest.     That's similar to what author Richard Bach said about his book, "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" -- that HE didn't write it; the words just flowed THROUGH him into the typewriter. Organ relevance: R. Bach claims to be descendant of J. S. Bach.   -- Mac Hayes Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.      
(back) Subject: Re: Off topic, but of interest From: MW ORGLBAU <MWORGLBAU@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 03:45:41 EDT   Dear List members,   In today's Los Angeles Times (April 13,1998), the main article from the business section was about the scientists at the Jet Propulsion Lab, who are working on a robot named "Pioneer" which will survey the internal damage at the Chernobyl nucular power plant in the Ukraine. One of the 3 scientists is Pat Maimone's son, Mark, who picture accompany's the article. If you are interested in seeing this you should go to: http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/BUSINESS/t000034905.html