PipeChat Digest #474 - Monday, August 3, 1998
 
'Are We Being Hexed Here'
  by "Copeman Hart & Co Ltd" <info@copemanhart.co.uk>
Re: Excuse me Mr Hart, Where's the organ?
  by "Copeman Hart & Co Ltd" <info@copemanhart.co.uk>
Re: XPOST:  Pipe Dreams, Tom Hazelton
  by "Don G. Pribble" <donprib@juno.com>
William Zeuch
  by "rollin smith" <rollinsmithv@worldnet.att.net>
Re: "Just a Job"
  by "Vernon Moeller" <vernonm@ccsi.com>
Re: "Just a Job"
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Re: Tracker organ in Hexham Abbey, UK
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Cheryl Hart vs. tracker organs (ouch! she says)
  by "Cheryl C Hart" <info@copemanhart.co.uk>
RE: "Just a Job"
  by "Wildhirt, Richard" <Richard.Wildhirt@PSS.Boeing.com>
Re: Cheryl Hart vs. tracker organs (ouch! she says)
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Re: "Just a Job"
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: "Just a Job"
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Restore Humour coupler
  by <Satbcantor@aol.com>
Re: Cheryl Hart vs. tracker organs (ouch! she says)
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
RE: "Just a Job"
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
RE: "Just a Job"
  by "Wildhirt, Richard" <Richard.Wildhirt@PSS.Boeing.com>
Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
 


(back) Subject: 'Are We Being Hexed Here' From: Copeman Hart & Co Ltd <info@copemanhart.co.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:02:29 +0100     Dear Lists and Mr List,   (and Bruce, who let me off so lightly!!).   What an interesting start to my Monday morning.   I have considerably more sympathy for, and agreement with, Mr Ken W List's point of view, than I have for the snide remarks of Mr Christopher Baker - which I shall address in another communication.   I absolutely agree with virtually all that you say and I am very happy to explain sources and reasoning behind my communication to the List. In the first place, it is very well known (perhaps it should be even better-known) that we always acknowledge our preference for, and the superiority of, pipe organs. This was not in any way an attempt to join the far-too-common 'battle' between pipes and electronics.   At the same time, we think that there are some people who go to extremes to try and prove their point, and I have so often been told by 'consultants' that pipes and tracker actions last forever. Although the exaggeration in that is self-evident, and one can forgive a slight hyperbole, these experts, who condemn all forms of electric and electro-pneumatic action, do rather put themselves up for a little bit of criticism - that is what my letter was intended to be - when they do make these extravagant claims. Ernest Hart (whose late and much-loved friend, Dr Donald Wright, who was involved closely with the Hexham organ, said quite cheerfully that the tracker action would last for 100 years) has gone into print many times, and spoken publicly to the same effect, as to how impressed he has been with organs in (particularly) Holland, and France, where original tracker actions were still working very well with only a modest amount of servicing, but those that had been 'improved' had then not lasted so well. =20   I do not like referring to specific names in any derogatory sense, and it is our policy as a company to try never to do so - so please understand that I was not in any way criticising Lawrence Phelps, and certainly not your own involvement, when I held it up to be an example of a superb modern-day tracker action which has, nonetheless, needed to be 'rebuilt'. You will appreciate that the Abbey, in its wisdom, did not ask us to be involved in the rebuilding (!!), so I am not able to give you absolute chapter and verse on precisely what has failed.   My source was a very respectable pipe organ builder (Vincent Organs of Sunderland) and I was quoting them as accurately as I could.   You will find that all the action has been removed from the organ, including the keyboards, and - on enquiring of an Abbey official (who repeatedly quoted the price of =A335,000) - our correspondent was told that the action was 'worn out'. Like you, I find it difficult to understand why it should have gone to America, and I must make it clear that I am quoting our correspondent accurately, when he asked several times if it was really true that the action was being sent to America, and he was told that it was. All this can therefore be verified, and anybody can see the space vacated by the keyboards and the action.   There have, to my certain knowledge, been three cases of tracker organs which needed to have major repairs or - in one case (St David's Hall, Cardiff) - a completely new action, within an all-too-short time of installation. Another example was New College, Oxford.   Now every kind of organ - pipe organs of every action, and electronics of course - can have its fault, and I would just like to make it absolutely clear to the Lists and Mr List that this was no part of an electronics versus pipes argument, and certainly it was the converse of any implied rebuke to Lawrence Phelps. You may be right in saying that some British were upset to have an American organ installed (although I remember the occasion well, and there were plenty of people who were very constructive about it), just as the incidents over Christ Church, Oxford, upset a great many people. This does not indicate Anglophobia or Americaphobia on anybody's part - I am just trying to discourage people from believing these generalisations from people who claim that, ipso facto, a tracker organ will carry on without major maintenance being required for 50 or 100 or more years. Let us just keep things in proportion, and not hurl insults at one another.   So it seems my comments - not allegations, really - are true as quoted: however, I would not ask Mr List for an apology, because I believe all his remarks were made in the very best constructive spirit - and I hope he will accept that we are not one of the electronic 'toaster-makers' who are wanting always to have a go at pipe organs, of whatever type of action.   I repeat, Mr List, that I do not want an apology from you - although what I said was true. However, I will decline the invitation to eat from your mushroom.   Cheryl=20     Copeman Hart & Company Ltd IRTHLINGBOROUGH Northamptonshire ENGLAND NN9 5TZ   http://www.copemanhart.co.uk Tel +44 (0)1933 652600 Fax +44 (0)1933 652288 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ US CONSULTANCY: Copeman Hart - America 107 East Pasadena Road OAK RIDGE Tennessee 37830-5112   Email Cpmnhartus@aol.com Tel 423 482 8600 Fax 423 482 8600 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AUSTRALIAN CONSULTANCY: Copeman Hart - Australia 60 Memorial Avenue ST IVES NSW 2075   Email hamilton.stives@bigpond.com Tel 0414 477 352 or 02 9983 9775 Fax 02 9983 9709 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    
(back) Subject: Re: Excuse me Mr Hart, Where's the organ? From: Copeman Hart & Co Ltd <info@copemanhart.co.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:09:59 +0100   Dear List   What a snide little remark <there is a story in this that CH would not want you to hear . . .> this was! There was and is absolutely nothing that we do not want people to hear about - except, of course, any malicious inaccuracies which might crop up. At least Mr Baker followed through with the alleged story, rather than imply that there was something nasty - which is one of the cheapest ways of trying to hurl insults.   The fact that Mr Baker had to go delving back into the beginning of the last decade, and then come up with a narrative which deserves the Booker prize for fiction, seems to demonstrate two points: that he is desperate to find something unfavourable to say about Copeman Hart (or is it electronic organs in general?), and that he had to go back nearly twenty years to do it!   Mr Baker's own inaccuracies - samples? we do not use them - and his OTT abusive style prevent him from making any points that he had in a credible manner. It reads like an alien-inspired bit of cheap propaganda. Other inaccuracies in Mr Baker's letter are, I suppose, understandable and therefore forgiveable - as he has obviously been grossly misinformed, and typical of these is the expression 'digital organ'. This was (and is) an ANALOGUE organ, which - incidentally - uses all British components: I presume his reference to the word 'Korean' is intended to be some snide little jibe - but again, it is inaccurate.   What Bert Prested's motives were in what he told - or what Mr Baker's motives were in his interpretation and re-telling of them - I would not wish to guess: but the sequence of events as described is factually totally erroneous. We have all correspondence regarding this (and of course every other installation of ours) filed carefully.   Our four principal correspondents at the time of designing and installing the three-manual electronic instrument were the Vicar (The Revd Dr George Carey), The Revd David Parkes - a pipe organ consultant who had been instrumental in choosing and specifying the organ - and Dr David Gregory Smith, who was churchwarden at the time, and Hugh Stewart, who was then, and is now, organist of St Nicholas. I really do not want to labour such ancient history, but if I quote briefly from an article by Dr David Parkes which appeared in Musical Times:   "Thus the committee was finally unanimous in recommending that Copeman Hart be approached to build a new organ. At no point have they, I, or the church, had cause to regret this decision, and now, more than four years later, after hearing all the latest developments of other electronic organ builders, we would make the same decision again."   This was a six-page article, and could be considered to be a little bit more reliable than the sources that Mr Baker has managed to muster.   The only amazing thing about the scheduling with that installation was that it was working by the agreed opening date for the organ, which was not the same as the opening date for the church - our file has letters to confirm this, and indeed apologies for delays caused by architect and builders, and thanks for the way we helped them out of a mistake by the architect very close to the opening of the church: these are all on file, and would be readily testified by Hugh Stewart, whose memory and files are impeccable. It is all very well to have the console standing there looking very beautiful, delivered in time (it did and it was) if the essential building work for the loudspeakers has not been finished by the building contractors. In those days, twenty years ago, as now, our organs were not 'plug in and play', but were designed to be a visually attractive and acoustically effective part of the fabric of the church - especially in a re-designed one, such as St Nicholas.   This was one of those sad cases where the building development of the church meant that the three-manual organ absolutely had to go, and where it used to repose there are now kitchens - although, contrary to Mr Baker's words, they were NOT fully finished at the time - and it was a very good idea to put a little pipe organ in the new small chapel, which was a very important part of the new church, and it appears that Mr Prested gave the cheapest quotation.   So, Mr Baker, your comments are wrong - and demonstrably wrong - in every way. Where the inaccuracies crept in is a matter for you and Mr Prested, and of course our files would be completely open to you: there is no point in boring Listers with all this detail, and I would quite understand if you felt unable to come and look at our files. Perhaps, at least, you can believe the words of The Revd David Parkes, the consultant?   With apologies for the necessary wordage in order to destroy a libel on our name which was, at best mistaken, and at worst malicious. Sorry, Mr Baker, it is all lies.   By the way, the little organ - about which it would appear we know a great deal more than Mr Baker does - is by no means languishing.   Cheryl C Hart (Mrs) Copeman Hart & Company Ltd IRTHLINGBOROUGH Northamptonshire ENGLAND NN9 5TZ   http://www.copemanhart.co.uk Tel +44 (0)1933 652600 Fax +44 (0)1933 652288 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ US CONSULTANCY: Copeman Hart - America 107 East Pasadena Road OAK RIDGE Tennessee 37830-5112   Email Cpmnhartus@aol.com Tel 423 482 8600 Fax 423 482 8600 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AUSTRALIAN CONSULTANCY: Copeman Hart - Australia 60 Memorial Avenue ST IVES NSW 2075   Email hamilton.stives@bigpond.com Tel 0414 477 352 or 02 9983 9775 Fax 02 9983 9709 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    
(back) Subject: Re: XPOST: Pipe Dreams, Tom Hazelton From: donprib@juno.com (Don G. Pribble) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:18:50 -0500   Why in the world should listening to a hymn tune bring "a tear or two to the eye?" I'll tell you why: a combination of beautiful organ blend, a stately tempo, a fine tune, an interesting re-harmonization of the last verse and a congregation of mostly men singing their hearts out -- that did it for me too.   Don in Minneapolis     "A closed mouth gathers no feet."   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: William Zeuch From: "rollin smith" <rollinsmithv@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:46:39 -0400   For an annotation for William Hays’ chapter on "Vierne in America," I would appreciate hearing from any members of the list who could share information about William E. Zeuch. His birth date and/or age at death remain a mystery. Below is what is known:   William E. Zeuch (d. Boston, June 2, 1963), studied first with Peter C. Lutkin in Chicago and later with Alexander Guilmant in Paris. From about 1912 until 1917 he was the Aeolian Organ Company’s Chicago reporesentative. He was organist of several prominent churches in Chicago before his appointment in October 1913 as municipal organist of Atlanta, Georgia. In January 1917 he became vice-president of the Ernest M. Skinner Organ Company. Vierne’s "Sicilienne," is dedicated to him.      
(back) Subject: Re: "Just a Job" From: Vernon Moeller <vernonm@ccsi.com> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 13:23:58 -0500   Yeah, I don't know how y'all do it, that is, to belong to one church and play for another, but a lot of people do that sort of thing, I think.   The last church I joined was the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), but I play for a United Methodist one. Fortunately, the CCDoC tends to smile upon folks who help other religions, since the CCDoC is very strongly ecumenically-minded. However, I miss the communion every Sunday, since it has a bit of liturgy that goes with it, and I like liturgy. I'd probably be happy as a clam in a Lutheran or Episcoplian church, except that they're not quite as relaxed as the CCDoC, and I prefer a church that uses a liturgy whose wording changes from time to time, like ours.   At one time, I thought it would be nice if the CC I rarely attend would open its doors on Sunday evening for church musicians in the Austin area. The form of worship and the slant would change from Sunday to Sunday, but the point of it would be to give organists and choir directors and other church musicians a chance to worship together, and see how other churches do so, without obligating the same musicians to perform week after week. If everybody took a turn and we mixed a Roman Catholic organist with a Baptist choir director, it would be fun and educational for all of us, don't you think? Plus, offerings wouldn't have to be all that great, just enough to cover expenses incurred by the host church.   Sometimes, I'm pretty good at coming up with ideas - I just don't have the energy to carry them out!   \/\/\      
(back) Subject: Re: "Just a Job" From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:23:08 -0700   >At one time, I thought it would be nice if the CC I rarely attend would >open its doors on Sunday evening for church musicians in the Austin area. >The form of worship and the slant would change from Sunday to Sunday, but >the point of it would be to give organists and choir directors and other >church musicians a chance to worship together, and see how other churches >do so, without obligating the same musicians to perform week after week. >If everybody took a turn and we mixed a Roman Catholic organist with a >Baptist choir director, it would be fun and educational for all of us, >don't you think? Plus, offerings wouldn't have to be all that great, just >enough to cover expenses incurred by the host church.   Sounds like a good idea to me. Would that be a SOUTHERN Baptist working with the RC Organist, or an INSTITUTIONAL Baptist? (Just kidding. I still think its a good idea)   Dennis Goward      
(back) Subject: Re: Tracker organ in Hexham Abbey, UK From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:33:04 -0400 (EDT)   I didn't know he had retired from Allen. I don't make a habit of keeping up with electronic producers. I had heard that Phelps was supervising the restoration of the Mother Church organ. I hope it is a success.   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: Re: Cheryl Hart vs. tracker organs (ouch! she says) From: Cheryl C Hart <info@copemanhart.co.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:44:26 +0100   Dear Bill,   Firstly, I take it you were smiling when you filled in the 'subject' line, just as I smiled when I read it with your name attached!   At 20:10 31.07.98, you wrote:   >Hmmm... of course, the e-p pipe organs are worse, at least the ones from the >'70s (which seems to have been the worst period of pipe organ building.) > >"My" 77-stop 1973-7 e-p organ has been releathered (perflex then poor quality >leather then...) and repaired to DEATH, to the tune of 6-figures in 25-scant >years. It still needs repairs... the big reed pipes are collapsing under their >own weight, etc. etc.   Presumably this is because the church was either beguiled into paying as little as possible in the first place, or because the original 'organ builder' was a cowboy (heaven forefend that there was an organ consultant involved)? Until one rids the world of cowboys (in all areas of organ building) and all consultants get their facts straight, aren't such episodes going to be repeated?   Of course that is terribly simplistic - I know about lack of funds and lack of interest, etc, and I don't have any answers.   Perhaps we should start with a published list in all organ journals of 'organ builders' who have created pigs ears out of a silk purse; here in the UK there is a public list of ex company directors who are deemed unfit to be connected with any business, so why not 'name and shame' the cowboy organ builders throughout the world?   >We would definitely have been *much* better getting one >of Cheryl's instruments.   It is very kind of you to say so, and I could not possibly argue with you. :-) The point is this, is it not: if one pays for a top quality instrument (of any description), built by a company who uses the very best of everything, one cannot go far wrong. True, anything built by man can go wrong - and does - but if one starts with the best possible foundation (design, materials, finishing), and keeps it regularly and properly maintained by someone who knows how to do a top-notch job (and amateurs who are keen to join in should be properly trained and certified by those who know best), it is less likely to end up as a financial disaster 10 or 25 or 40 years or so down the line. There will always be exceptions, of course, but if a company (or person) is unable to produce that quality of work, then, in my opinion, it (or he/she) should not be allowed to continue wreaking havoc. (And - before anyone takes 2 and 2 and makes it equal 5 - I do not have anyone or any company in mind. As Bill says - Peace. )   And here is a short verse from the Gospel according to Copeman Hart: A good pipe organ cannot be equalled by any electronic, but a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ.   Cheryl     COPEMAN HART & COMPANY LTD Church Organ Builders Finedon Road IRTHLINGBOROUGH Northamptonshire ENGLAND NN9 5TZ   Tel 01933 652600 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ US CONSULTANCY: Copeman Hart - America Email Cpmnhartus@aol.com Tel 423 482 8600 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AUSTRALIAN CONSULTANCY: Copeman Hart - Australia Email hamilton.stives@bigpond.com Tel 02 9983 9775 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.copemanhart.co.uk    
(back) Subject: RE: "Just a Job" From: "Wildhirt, Richard" <Richard.Wildhirt@PSS.Boeing.com> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:51:59 -0700   I'm one of those organists who's fortunate enough to be playing in a church where I believe what is being taught, and I prefer the way it is being presented. That's probably why I've never jumped at any opportunity to play in a non-Lutheran congregation.   I grew up in the Lutheran church, learned how to play the organ there, went to a Lutheran college to learn how to REALLY play the organ, worked full time for six years in Lutheran churches as an organist/choir director, and now I am a part-time organist in a Lutheran church.   Call me sheltered, but I haven't ever taken the opportunity to be an organist in another denomination. I am LCMS, but I once came close to being selected for a position in an ELCA congregation. Politics prevented that (politics is the reason I left full-time church work). That's the closest I've ever come to forsaking my roots.   The congregation I currently serve is very traditional, very liturgical. Single service on Sunday, first Sunday of each month is CCM. It's been that way for almost four years. Got a new pastor last month, so things might change a bit. No surprise.   I often wonder what I've missed not ever playing in a non-Lutheran congregation. If an opportunity came my way 10 years ago, I wouldn't have considered it because my beliefs are so Lutheran. Now, if the Presbyterians, per se, came to me and offered me a position, I might take a look at it. Maybe I'm softening as I get older. Maybe the Lutherans are becoming too narrow for me.   Just my $.02 ($.017 in Canada).  
(back) Subject: Re: Cheryl Hart vs. tracker organs (ouch! she says) From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:18:41 -0700   >And here is a short verse from the Gospel according to Copeman Hart: A good >pipe organ cannot be equalled by any electronic, but a good electronic is >better than a poor pipe organ. > >Cheryl >     Having endured a poor pipe organ, I'll have to add my AMEN to this.   Dennis Goward    
(back) Subject: Re: "Just a Job" From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:22:47 -0400 (EDT)   >Yeah, I don't know how y'all do it, that is, to > belong to one church and play for another, Well, after all my denominational travels searching for the "right" one -- Presbyterian, Methodist, RC, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mormon, Episcopalian -- I've pretty much come to the conclusion (not to disappoint the ecumenicals) that there actually is only one church, with a whole bunch of different hymnals and rules. I've played in all of the above denominations as well as Lutheran (three Synods), American Baptist and Disciples of Christ.     >... it would be nice if the CC I rarely attend > would open its doors on Sunday evening for > church musicians in the Austin area. The form > of worship and the slant would change from > Sunday to Sunday, but the point of it would be > to give organists and choir directors and other > church musicians a chance to worship > together Vernon, I think this is a great idea, and a terrific AGO project.   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: Re: "Just a Job" From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:26:25 -0400 (EDT)   > Would that be a SOUTHERN Baptist working > with the RC Organist, or an INSTITUTIONAL > Baptist?   Dennis, After much time in church music most organists could probably qualify as "institutional" material. ;-)   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: Re: Restore Humour coupler From: <Satbcantor@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:35:53 EDT   Cheryl, In a message dated 03/08/98 15:15:08 GMT, you write:   > What a snide little remark <there is a story in this that CH would not want > you to hear . . .> this was! There was and is absolutely nothing that we > do not want people to hear about - except, of course, any malicious > inaccuracies which might crop up. At least Mr Baker followed through with > the alleged story, rather than imply that there was something nasty - which > is one of the cheapest ways of trying to hurl insults.   Tip.......... Hunt around your environs, see if you can find the 'Restore Humour' button..... AND PRESS IT !!!!   Love and head pats Chris Baker    
(back) Subject: Re: Cheryl Hart vs. tracker organs (ouch! she says) From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:40:59 -0400 (EDT)   ......a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ.   NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!   (guess whom!)   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: RE: "Just a Job" From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:50:20 -0400 (EDT)     >I am LCMS, but I once came close to being > selected for a position in an ELCA > congregation. Whew! Close shave!!   > Politics prevented that (politics is the reason I > left full-time church work). I was once told by an organ teacher that "if you stay in church music long enough you'll see why Christians were thrown to the lions!"   > Now, if the Presbyterians, per se, came to me > and offered me a position, I might take a look > at it. Substituting is great fun, you get to play alot of organs, meet alot of wonderful people who tell you that your much better than the regular person and that they've never heard the organ sound better. You can pick and choose when and where you play (hehe, guess that's why it's sometime referred to as a "prostitute organist").   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: RE: "Just a Job" From: "Wildhirt, Richard" <Richard.Wildhirt@PSS.Boeing.com> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:55:52 -0700   > Well, after all my denominational travels searching for the "right" > one > -- Presbyterian, Methodist, RC, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mormon, > Episcopalian -- I've pretty much come to the conclusion (not to > disappoint the ecumenicals) that there actually is only one church, > with > a whole bunch of different hymnals and rules. > I've played in all of the above denominations as well as Lutheran > (three > Synods), American Baptist and Disciples of Christ. > Uh, Bruce, let's not lump the LDS church in with the mainline Christians, OK? All the denominations you list here are Christian, and they do make "only one church," but the Mormons definitely do not fit the bill. No flaming intended here--just the facts, ma'am.  
(back) Subject: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ? From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:35:33 -0700       ......a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ.   NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!   (guess whom!)   Do you seriously mean you would prefer a three rank two manual pipe organ (say 8 Gedeckt, 4 Prestant, 2 2/3 Nazard, with a 12 pipe ext on the Gedeckt for the ped) over a nicely laid out electronic?   Dennis Goward